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2 check points in 2 minutes.

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  • Closed Accounts Posts: 33 KimHawkins


    Kaiser2000 wrote: »
    As for pre-crime... ever heard the phrase: prevention is better than cure? Surely it's better to detect and prevent someone from killing themselves (and maybe others) after a few drinks, rather than lament the fact after?

    As I have repeatedly said, I am not willing to give up my rights for "safety". I'll take my chances.


  • Registered Users Posts: 28,740 ✭✭✭✭_Kaiser_


    KimHawkins wrote: »
    As I have repeatedly said, I am not willing to give up my rights for "safety". I'll take my chances.

    I think most people would disagree with you on that one. Out of curiosity though, what "rights" are you giving up exactly?


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 4,987 ✭✭✭ottostreet


    KimHawkins wrote: »
    As I have repeatedly said, I am not willing to give up my rights for "safety". I'll take my chances.

    its not just about you. its about other road users as well. you may know yourself that you are not drinking and driving, but the guards may still want to be sure, for the sake of everyone else sharing the road with you!


  • Registered Users Posts: 768 ✭✭✭Ian Beale


    KimHawkins wrote: »
    The real world is similar to a mathematical problem in a lot of cases.

    Do you know anything about the insurance business??? Small groups of numbers are random, large groups are very easy to predict.
    Fatalities aren't predictable, they aren't a business model.
    KimHawkins wrote: »
    As I have repeatedly said, I am not willing to give up my rights for "safety". I'll take my chances.
    Again you don't have a right to skip a checkpoint and if you want to take your chances that's your decision but that's your choice and as far as I know you don't speak for every motorist in the country.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 33 KimHawkins


    Kaiser2000 wrote: »
    I think most people would disagree with you on that one. Out of curiosity though, what "rights" are you giving up exactly?

    My right to live as I want to live, without the interference of any external "authority",
    ottostreet wrote: »
    its not just about you. its about other road users as well. you may know yourself that you are not drinking and driving, but the guards may still want to be sure, for the sake of everyone else sharing the road with you!

    well if I am all over the road and driving like a mad yoke then i have no problem with them stopping me. If they have not observed this, then leave me alone.


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  • Closed Accounts Posts: 8,390 ✭✭✭The Big Red Button


    KimHawkins wrote: »
    As I have repeatedly said, I am not willing to give up my rights for "safety". I'll take my chances.

    You are not the only driver on the road. The vast majority of us don't feel we're giving up any "rights", and can see how the benefits of getting drunk drivers off the road are worth any small inconveniences/delays.

    If you don't like it - use public transport.

    The rules are there for a reason. Maybe you'd happy to "take your chances" and risk your life and your family's lives by having more relaxed drink driving laws, but personally I wouldn't be happy to do so.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 8,390 ✭✭✭The Big Red Button


    KimHawkins wrote: »
    My right to live as I want to live, without the interference of any external "authority",

    And yet you're happy to use the roads built and maintained by this external "authority"? :rolleyes:


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 33 KimHawkins


    Ian Beale wrote: »
    Fatalities aren't predictable, they aren't a business model.

    Talk to any insurance man, he'll back up what I have said. I though it was fairly obvious, maybe not to everyone.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 9,534 ✭✭✭SV


    KimHawkins wrote: »
    My right to live as I want to live, without the interference of any external "authority",



    You don't have that right.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 33 KimHawkins


    And yet you're happy to use the roads built and maintained by this external "authority"? :rolleyes:

    Built and maintained by my tax money and toll payments.


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  • Closed Accounts Posts: 33 KimHawkins


    SV wrote: »
    You don't have that right.

    We'll see about that.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 9,534 ✭✭✭SV


    KimHawkins wrote: »
    We'll see about that.

    Oh for.. Who do you think you are?
    Seriously, you think you have the right to live as you want without any authority over you?
    I've never heard anyone but a 14 year old come out with such nonsense.


  • Registered Users Posts: 12,761 ✭✭✭✭galwaytt


    KimHawkins wrote: »
    I find the idea of someone asking me to blow into a machine very degrading, but that is another issue.
    ..as a non-drinker, I find it hilarious - I don't think the GTC believe me ! Does make you wonder about Benylin, though...:)
    As for other people, what they do is their business. I am not into pre crime, if a person crashes drunk as a skunk they should be locked up.
    ....well, with people of your mindset, I'd prefer the GTC to lock you up before you crash, 'drunk as a skunk.' Actualy, even if you're not drunk, tbh.........your just being a selfish git.
    KimHawkins wrote: »
    The right to travel about unhindered.
    ..not the first time you've said that, so time to quote the Act, number and section where this is written: us enquiring minds would be delighted to see it. Or, are you quoting that from a film as well ??
    slickmcvic wrote: »
    .....i dont have a problem with the 1's at night but really think the morning checkpoints are just their to catch people out...
    Exaclty. To catch you out driving 'under the influence'. That's the point. :rolleyes:

    ..the lads in wicklow were fairly sound and let the "more than tipsy" gf have a go on the machine.....she failed!!
    8329_160142971438_641201438_2805631_7493359_n.jpg


    Ha ! - rename that pic 'Epic Fail' !! :P

    Ode To The Motorist

    “And my existence, while grotesque and incomprehensible to you, generates funds to the exchequer. You don't want to acknowledge that as truth because, deep down in places you don't talk about at the Green Party, you want me on that road, you need me on that road. We use words like freedom, enjoyment, sport and community. We use these words as the backbone of a life spent instilling those values in our families and loved ones. You use them as a punch line. I have neither the time nor the inclination to explain myself to a man who rises and sleeps under the tax revenue and the very freedom to spend it that I provide, and then questions the manner in which I provide it. I would rather you just said "thank you" and went on your way. Otherwise I suggest you pick up a bus pass and get the ********* ********* off the road” 



  • Registered Users Posts: 7,787 ✭✭✭slimjimmc


    KimHawkins wrote: »
    My right to live as I want to live, without the interference of any external "authority"

    Dear o dear o dear. I think you're living in some sort of utopian fantasy world.

    First of all, do not confuse your right to life (i.e. not to be killed) with any imagined right to do what you like. You do not have the right to live as you want to live without the interference of any external authority. So long as you are a resident of this State the manner in which you live your life is subject to the laws of this state. If you are convicted of breaking those laws your lifestyle wlll most definitely be interfered with. The same system is applied the world over.

    Secondly, your right to travel freely is also subject to adhering to the laws of the land and to any and all restrictions applied for the common good.

    Thirdly, (you didn't mention or imply this but I will) you have no right to drive. It is a privilege granted by the State, again subject to certain laws and regulations.


    I would like to see more checkpoints. It increases the risk factor for those who are inclined to drink & drive, no insurance, etc and might modify their future behaviour and attitudes. I'm not bothered about a few minutes of minor inconvenience, often suffer longer delays in normal traffic.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 229 ✭✭cascade35


    KimHawkins wrote: »
    We'll see about that.

    How?


  • Registered Users Posts: 4,160 ✭✭✭TheNog


    KimHawkins wrote: »
    We'll see about that.

    I think everyone can stop replying to this fella cos he is banned. If I remember correctly this fella was banned last year using a different name. Back then he posted the exact same such as "travelling unhindered", "dont want to talk to Gardai" etc etc blah, blah


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 16,805 ✭✭✭✭Gary ITR


    cascade35 wrote: »
    How?

    KimHawkins seems to have been permanently sitebanned so no point in directing questions to them


  • Registered Users Posts: 8,451 ✭✭✭CharlieCroker


    The ignorance of some people is unbelievable. Either that of KimHawkins is a troll!!!
    You have no RIGHTS when your driving on a public road. When you drive, you adhere to the Road Traffic Act or else you face the consequences, be it a fine, points or ban.

    A Garda can stop you at ANY time while your driving under S.109 of the RTA 1961-2006. Failure to stop is an offence.

    A Garda can make a LAWFUL demand at a MAT checkpoint for a driver to provide a breath sample under S.4 of the RTA 2006. Failure to do so is also an offence!!!!

    These rules are there for everybody and are there for the good of the public at large.

    If you don't like it, DON'T DRIVE!!!!!!


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 229 ✭✭cascade35


    Onkle wrote: »
    KimHawkins seems to have been permanently sitebanned so no point in directing questions to them

    Delighted to hear it what ever it was is banned lol:D.


  • Registered Users Posts: 4,517 ✭✭✭jaffa20


    Drove 500 km this weekend so far and haven't seen one checkpoint. I've never been stopped once. I wouldn't mind been tested.


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  • Registered Users Posts: 78 ✭✭thebull09


    im in the clare region and a taxi driver didnt finish til 4 sun morning and 5 this morning and i never seen a squad car at all and i must have clocked up over 500 miles .


  • Registered Users Posts: 17,399 ✭✭✭✭r3nu4l


    O/P this was more than likely operation surround.

    The idea is for all divisional traffic units to converge on a town and surround it for a night covering all exit roads and preforming mandatory alcohol checkpoints on them. Very effective and very high vis.
    I applaud the idea of covering all exit roads with checkpoints but may I ask what time these checkpoints closed at?

    As has already been said on the thread, most of these weekend drink-driving deaths in the countryside are usually between 2am and 5 am. There's no point is closing the checkpoints at midnight when the majority of people are still in the pubs or in nightclubs.

    I'll use Clonmel as an example as it was mentioned in the OP.

    On a Saturday night if some lads from Cahir are boozing in Clonmel and then going clubbing, then the earliest they will be getting into a car to drive home is 3am, maybe later if they arse about, queueing for chips :) This is when the drunk driver will make his way back to Cahir along the Clonmel-Cahir road. There's some nice straights on that road that encourage a heavy right-foot but there's also some not-so-nice bends in the road too.

    Will the checkpoint still be open between 3-5am? If not, why not?


  • Registered Users Posts: 14,555 ✭✭✭✭Marlow


    r3nu4l wrote: »
    Will the checkpoint still be open between 3-5am? If not, why not?

    I've been stopped on the road between Moylough and Mountbellew for breathalizing before. If I recall right it was between 2am and 3am .. it was definatly seriously late.

    So .. some counties take it seriously.

    /M


  • Registered Users Posts: 17,399 ✭✭✭✭r3nu4l


    Marlow wrote: »
    If I recall right it was between 2am and 3am .. it was definatly seriously late.

    So .. some counties take it seriously.

    /M

    Cool :) I'm not saying that anybody isn't taking it seriously, it's a genuine question that I just don't know the answer to. :) That's why I'm asking. I would like to know too if there are any guidelines on the timing of checkpoints, when they start, end etc (without asking the AGS members here to give away any sensitive information obviously). :)


  • Registered Users Posts: 14,555 ✭✭✭✭Marlow


    r3nu4l wrote: »
    Cool :) I'm not saying that anybody isn't taking it seriously, it's a genuine question that I just don't know the answer to. :) That's why I'm asking. I would like to know too if there are any guidelines on the timing of checkpoints, when they start, end etc (without asking the AGS members here to give away any sensitive information obviously). :)

    As far as I know, it's down to every precinct and I doubt they tell you, for how long they'll do'em :)

    /M


  • Registered Users Posts: 1,596 ✭✭✭RedorDead


    Did very little driving this weekend but did pass a checkpoint on Conyngham road in Dublin.

    Shame the checkpoints couldnt have caught this moron. The other car had two couples on the way to airport on holidays.

    Two men have died and two women have been injured in a collision in Co Cork.

    The crash happened on the N25 at Caherulton, Castlemartyr, Co Cork, at around 2.45am this morning.

    A Ford Mondeo travelling from the Cork direction was in collision with a Volkswagon Polo travelling from Waterford.

    The two injured women, who had been in the Volkswagon Polo, were taken to Cork University Hospital. They are described as being in a stable condition.

    The Ford Mondeo was being driven by a man, he was the sole occupant of the vehicle.

    He left his car at the scene of the crash and left the area but was arrested later at Ballinacurra, Midleton.

    He is in 20s and from the area. He is being held at Midleton Garda Station.

    The road has been closed-off for examination


  • Registered Users Posts: 4,957 ✭✭✭Hooch


    r3nu4l wrote: »
    Will the checkpoint still be open between 3-5am? If not, why not?

    The idea of operation surround is to surround a town and cover the exits. The checkpoints are a certain length. Lets say an hour. Then units are free to patrol until another time where they swap locations and do another set length of time. The checkpoints happen from 10pm to 6am.

    The length of time at that C/P is decided by the member in charge. It differs for every division and every C/P. one could be an hour and the next a half hour etc.
    RedorDead wrote: »
    Shame the checkpoints couldnt have caught this moron. The other car had two couples on the way to airport on holidays.

    +1 and how anyone can disagree with mandatory alcohol checkpoints when we see incidents like this on the tv is beyond me. Its grand for drivers to wake up the next morning and see it on the TV or papers and think "O isnt that awful"

    Next time spare a thought for the fire crew who had to cut them out, the ambulance crew that had to treat them, the Doctor who had to pronunce a young life dead.....and the Garda who has to knock on a mothers/fathers/wife/husbands door at that hour of the morning and tell them a loved one is dead. (believe me....its the hardest thing I do in the job, and it NEVER gets easier....ever)


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 229 ✭✭cascade35


    r3nu4l wrote: »
    I applaud the idea of covering all exit roads with checkpoints but may I ask what time these checkpoints closed at?

    As has already been said on the thread, most of these weekend drink-driving deaths in the countryside are usually between 2am and 5 am. There's no point is closing the checkpoints at midnight when the majority of people are still in the pubs or in nightclubs.

    I'll use Clonmel as an example as it was mentioned in the OP.

    On a Saturday night if some lads from Cahir are boozing in Clonmel and then going clubbing, then the earliest they will be getting into a car to drive home is 3am, maybe later if they arse about, queueing for chips :) This is when the drunk driver will make his way back to Cahir along the Clonmel-Cahir road. There's some nice straights on that road that encourage a heavy right-foot but there's also some not-so-nice bends in the road too.

    Will the checkpoint still be open between 3-5am? If not, why not?

    Ive never come across a check point at 3am,4am,5am or even 6am.
    There has been quite a few accidents on the Clonmel Cahir road before and after the apple farm. Think there is a new lower speed limit in force just after the apple farm.


  • Registered Users Posts: 17,399 ✭✭✭✭r3nu4l


    The idea of operation surround is to surround a town and cover the exits. The checkpoints are a certain length. Lets say an hour. Then units are free to patrol until another time where they swap locations and do another set length of time. The checkpoints happen from 10pm to 6am.

    The length of time at that C/P is decided by the member in charge. It differs for every division and every C/P. one could be an hour and the next a half hour etc.
    Cheers NGA :) It's just frustrating to be stopped at a checkpoint at 10PM when you know that the largest amount of drink driving is going to happen between midnight and 4 AM when the pubs, and later, the clubs, close.
    cascade35 wrote: »
    Ive never come across a check point at 3am,4am,5am or even 6am.
    There has been quite a few accidents on the Clonmel Cahir road before and after the apple farm. Think there is a new lower speed limit in force just after the apple farm.
    Indeed, that's why I was wondering about the timing of these checkpoints. If operation surround was in progress in Clonmel over the weekend, I'd like to know what time it started and what time it ended. To my mind while it's always useful to have checkpoints, if the timing is off then it's little more than an exercise in visibility and visibility while useful is only a deterrent to some. The determined drink driver will still be on the road at 3am when the nightclub has closed and that's when the checkpoints should be most visible.


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  • Closed Accounts Posts: 229 ✭✭cascade35


    Last Updated: Tuesday, October 27, 2009, 11:49 Over 500 held for drink driving

    IRISH TIMES REPORTERS



    More than 500 people were arrested for suspected drink driving offences over the bank holiday weekend, according to gardaí.
    Chief Superintendent Gabriel McIntyre said almost 2,000 checkpoints were used over the weekend and that a number of people were also arrested for suspected dangerous driving offences.
    He said a “small number” of motorists were also arrested for suspected drug driving offences.
    The majority of arrests took place during the “11pm to 3am” periods he sais, adding that very few drivers were arrested at checkpoints later in the morning.
    While five people had been killed over the Bank Holiday – two more than the same period last year – he said the overall number killed so far this year at 196 was 42 less than in 2008 and described this as evidence of a change in mentality by motorists.
    Supt McIntyre appealed to motorists to drive defensively and to pay attention to vulnerable road users such as pedestrians and cyclists, particularly as during the dark, winter evenings. He noted that two pedestrians were among those killed over the weekend.
    The first of the four fatalities came at about 2pm on Saturday when a 61-year-old man was struck by a car at Roxboro Road.
    In the early hours of yesterday morning, two cars were involved in a collision at Caherulton, Castlemartyr, Co Cork, resulting in the deaths of two men and injuries to two women.
    A man died when his van left the road and plunged 150 feet into the Atlantic on Achill Island, Co Mayo.
    Last night an 81-year-old woman was killed when she was struck by a car on the Malahide Road in Coolock in Dublin shortly after 6pm.
    Separately the AA said a survey it conducted over the weekend shows a rise in support for reducing the drink-driving limit.
    Between Friday last and Monday, 7,000 motorists were asked for their views on the proposal, contained in the draft Road Traffic Bill, to reduce the blood alcohol content limit from 80mg to 50mg per 100ml of blood.
    A total of 49.8 per cent said they were “completely in favour” of the policy and 14.1 per cent said they were “somewhat in favour”.
    Combining those two groups, AA spokesman Conor Faughnan said 63.9 per cent “are in favour of reducing the alcohol limit to 50mg, an increase of almost 3 per cent on the 61.1 per cent approval rate when a similar poll was conducted last year”.
    He said 27.9 per cent of respondents were opposed to the proposed change, with 16 per cent “completely against” and 11.9 per cent “somewhat against”.
    Mr Faughnan said the figures showed support for the measure was “reasonably uniform” across the country. It was strongest in Dublin, with 66.3 per cent approval, and weakest in Cork, where there was 58.1 per cent approval.
    The data also showed that support was stronger among women (71.5 per cent) than men (62.9 per cent) and that over-65s were more in favour of the proposal than any other age group.
    “It is abundantly clear that Irish motorists understand the drink-driving issue and want to see the limit lowered into line with limits elsewhere in Europe and beyond,” Mr Faughnan said. He added that the poll results would “come as encouragement” to Minister for Transport Noel Dempsey.


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