News and views on Greystones harbour and marina [SEE MODERATOR WARNING POST 1187]

Huntthe

It is also worth noting that good performing loans such as Greystones Harbour (phase 3) and bad loans are transferring to NAMA. The business plan being prepared by SISPAR for NAMA, I feel, will satisfy the criteria set down and we will see a full work out of the project and it will be beneficial to the state.

What does this waffle mean. How can phase 3 be a 'good performing loan' in the mother of all property slumps ? Or does he just mean Sispar are servicing their loan, if so than surely he means the entire project and not just phase 3 ?

This project is unrivalled in the British Isles and is being provided for the community free of charge”.

I just love the term 'British Isles'.

mikedragon32

seamy_orr wrote: »

Can someone inform Councillor Hayden that the term British Isles is extremely offensive and should not be used in any context by any Irish National, nevermind a member of public office.Get your head out of the oven.

Written Answers - Official Terms", Dáil Éireann - Volume 606 - 28 September 2005. In his response, the Irish Minister for Foreign Affairs stated that "The British Isles is not an officially recognised term in any legal or inter-governmental sense. It is without any official status. The Government, including the Department of Foreign Affairs, does not use this term. Our officials in the Embassy of Ireland, London, continue to monitor the media in Britain for any abuse of the official terms as set out in the Constitution of Ireland and in legislation. These include the name of the State, the President, Taoiseach and others."

Offensive to those who somehow still manage to hold a grudge.

At the risk of pulling the thread off topic, "British Isles" is a geographic term, not some imperialist plot to keep us as part of the empire!

What makes the faceless people of boards any more anonymous than the faceless people of the Guide? Or indeed any more anonymous than the anonymous voters who elected him in a secret ballot? If what he has to say stands up to scrutiny (doubtful), then it shouldn't matter a jot if the arguments against the development come from Mr Peter Perfect of Charlesland Court or deathbringer666 (address unknown).

What do you say councillor? How about a moderated factual debate with us boardsies? Not everyone here is a scaremonger, some of us even support the development, but when crap like "world class" is spouted it makes one wonder.

I regularly visit the south of France and spend time at ports and marinas there. I can't envisage this being even remotely up to the standards of even the smallest facility down there.

Huntthe

At the risk of pulling the thread off topic, "British Isles" is a geographic term, not some imperialist plot to keep us as part of the empire

It is an incorrect term and it is offensive to those who sacrificed from all walks of life so that this State (in all its Glory :P) exists.

I do not hold a grudge against the British and I acknowledge peoples right to use a factually incorrect and outdated term.

danjo

Huntthe wrote: »

What does this waffle mean. How can phase 3 be a 'good performing loan' in the mother of all property slumps ? Or does he just mean Sispar are servicing their loan, if so than surely he means the entire project and not just phase 3 ?

Interesting that Councillor Hayden assures us of a "good performing loan" when the spokesperson for Sispar could not. According to the recent Irish Times article, when questioned, the spokesperson for Sispar responded that "he had not heard anybody say the loans were not performing". Hardly a ringing endorsement!
Surely Sispar know the status of their loans or :eek:

loyatemu

Huntthe wrote: »

It is an incorrect term and it is offensive to those who sacrificed from all walks of life so that this State (in all its Glory :P) exists.

I do not hold a grudge against the British and I acknowledge peoples right to use a factually incorrect and outdated term.

take it to the politics forum guys.

Blandpebbles

Actually just went over to read yer man's website... I love how he writes an article about scaremongers and then includes a quote from himself in it...

And so in a similar vein

Recently the communication of Marina developments as been woeful.

Blandpebbles commented 'I think recently the communication of Marina develoments as been woeful'.

This now justifies my views and makes me right... no takey backs.

Blanchflower

danjo wrote: »

Interesting that Councillor Hayden assures us of a "good performing loan" when the spokesperson for Sispar could not. According to the recent Irish Times article, when questioned, the spokesperson for Sispar responded that "he had not heard anybody say the loans were not performing". Hardly a ringing endorsement!
Surely Sispar know the status of their loans or :eek:

The big question is what is the Loan to Value (LTV) of the €80 million already spent on the building of the breakwaters. Does it even have a value. Therefore from a NAMA perspective it would not seem financially logical to spend even more good money after bad. This development is so far under water that it could possibly be renamed "Atlantis"!

Blanchflower

One of the country's biggest building contracting firms, Pierse Construction, is to seek protection from its creditors and has applied for examinership in the High Court. Reports say that the company is making the application in order to safeguard jobs. Last year, the company wound down its UK contracting business, Pierce UK. At the time, Nobby O'Reilly, chief executive of Pierse Construction, said the company's biggest challenge was "to find a bank to fund these projects due to the extraordinary turbulence in the financial markets and, in particular, the funding of PPP projects". He said it had taken the company almost a year to raise the E68 million required for a Irish PPP school-building programme which it launched last month. Its operations include property and residential development, building contracting, civil and marine engineering, as well as specialist areas such as piling and foundation engineering, fit-outs, refurbishment, clean room engineering, demolition and marine outfalls. It has worked on some of the largest construction projects in the country. Projects currently under construction include water supply schemes at Sandyford and Saggart in Dublin, a psychiatric unit in Bessboro, a number of schools under Public Private Partnerships and a number of service stations on the national roads network.

Jimjay

Blanchflower wrote: »

One of the country's biggest building contracting firms, Pierse Construction, is to seek protection from its creditors and has applied for examinership in the High Court. Reports say that the company is making the application in order to safeguard jobs. Last year, the company wound down its UK contracting business, Pierce UK. At the time, Nobby O'Reilly, chief executive of Pierse Construction, said the company's biggest challenge was "to find a bank to fund these projects due to the extraordinary turbulence in the financial markets and, in particular, the funding of PPP projects". He said it had taken the company almost a year to raise the E68 million required for a Irish PPP school-building programme which it launched last month. Its operations include property and residential development, building contracting, civil and marine engineering, as well as specialist areas such as piling and foundation engineering, fit-outs, refurbishment, clean room engineering, demolition and marine outfalls. It has worked on some of the largest construction projects in the country. Projects currently under construction include water supply schemes at Sandyford and Saggart in Dublin, a psychiatric unit in Bessboro, a number of schools under Public Private Partnerships and a number of service stations on the national roads network.

Sorry if I am being dumb but what has this got to do with greystones marina?

Blanchflower

Jimjay wrote: »

Sorry if I am being dumb but what has this got to do with greystones marina?

Its a sign of the times where once powerfull building firms are now on the ropes financially. It is significant that PPP projects are now finding funding very difficult. This does not bode well for the Greystones Harbour development.

Jimjay

Blanchflower wrote: »

Its a sign of the times where once powerfull building firms are now on the ropes financially. It is significant that PPP projects are now finding funding very difficult. This does not bode well for the Greystones Harbour development.

Ok. It sounded from your post that this had a direct impact on the marina project. Maybe it should be made clear if a post like this has no direct link to the thread as this is what causes confusion. I can't find any post in this thread that offers any backed up information as to how far this project will go.

Tabnabs

Nothing whatsoever, SISPAR are not in examinership nor have they been reported to be in any financial difficulties. Any chance we can keep the thread on track?

LEIN

Blanchflower, may i point you in the direction of the political forum?

You can discuss all about nama and broke developers on many threads there.

http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/forumdisplay.php?f=99

tennisplayer

Blanchflower wrote: »

Sorry about that but this matter is really getting under my skin as I feel so strongly about it. I fear that I may not be allowed speak my mind at the information evening if the goings on at the various harbour liaison meetings are anything to go by. However I will endeavour to ask the right questions and get the answers.

Were you able to ask any questions at the information meeting and did you get any answers ?

loobylou

Anybody able to give an update on the meeting on Tuesday night?

Langerland

From what I gather, a lot is depending on the application for change in planning permission. My understanding is that the developers and council are really hoping for this to be allowed as it will increase the chances of extra funding for completion of the project. In the event that this planning change is denied, funding is unlikely and we will probably end up with temporary surfaces and an unfinished harbour for many many years.

So to sum up, it's not good. Ultimate gombeenism....I cannot see the planning permission being denied with this gun to the towns head.

Fiachra2

loobylou wrote: »

Anybody able to give an update on the meeting on Tuesday night?

I understand it was a fairly quiet affair entirely for the benefit of would-be harbour users. The information was entirely about what would happen if the project went ahead. There was no discussion of what might happen if the project failed to go ahead and no-one asked that question nor were there any questions about NAMA

Fiachra2

Langerland wrote: »

From what I gather, a lot is depending on the application for change in planning permission. My understanding is that the developers and council are really hoping for this to be allowed as it will increase the chances of extra funding for completion of the project. In the event that this planning change is denied, funding is unlikely and we will probably end up with temporary surfaces and an unfinished harbour for many many years.

.

The application for additional housing is a complete red herring. It would allow NAMA to recover more money for the taxpayer in the very long term (and indeed it is not impossible that in 5-10years a NAMA backed developer will be looking for a huge increase in the amount of housing).

However it has no impact on what happens next in terms of completion of the project and the provision of funding by NAMA. (I do accept that some councillors may give the impression that it is relevant but that is misleading)

Tabnabs

Fiachra2 wrote: »

I understand it was a fairly quiet affair entirely for the benefit of would-be harbour users. The information was entirely about what would happen if the project went ahead. There was no discussion of what might happen if the project failed to go ahead and no-one asked that question nor were there any questions about NAMA

Did they say when it would be open as a "working" harbour (i.e. marina etc.)

Fiachra2

Dyflin wrote: »

Did they say when it would be open as a "working" harbour (i.e. marina etc.)

I think the point is that following NAMA's involvent the issue is "if" not "when" and its probably a very slight "if"

pixbyjohn

pixbyjohn

recedite

Fiachra2 wrote: »

I understand it was a fairly quiet affair entirely for the benefit of would-be harbour users. The information was entirely about what would happen if the project went ahead. There was no discussion of what might happen if the project failed to go ahead and no-one asked that question nor were there any questions about NAMA

I hate to say I told you so, but....

recedite wrote: »

Not exactly impartial information then.
Maybe "wishful thinking and slideshow of works so far" would be a better description of the nights entertainment.

Dyflin wrote: »

Did they say when it would be open as a "working" harbour (i.e. marina etc.)

There might actually be a way to take in cash bookings for long term private use of the berths, and ring fence those funds to finish the marina part, if Nama were to approve the plan. Similar in principle to the selling of corporate boxes to help finance the building of a stadium.

Blandpebbles

I would expect no more moaning on this thread, myself included, given we had an opportunity to ask and speak, and no one did.

Oh Well, what about that Volleyball net on the south beach when is that gonna be fixed?

Huntthe

I would expect no more moaning on this thread, myself included, given we had an opportunity to ask and speak, and no one did.

Right we won't mention it again so :rolleyes:

Jimjay

Blandpebbles wrote: »

I would expect no more moaning on this thread, myself included, given we had an opportunity to ask and speak, and no one did.

Oh Well, what about that Volleyball net on the south beach when is that gonna be fixed?

I don't agree with some of your posts but I certainly agree with this.

I actually think this thread is a complete waist of time. Nobody has any direct information, every post is hearsay, guess work or opinion based on other projects gone bad or just said in general depression caused by the recession.

At the moment builders are still on site (see pics above by John) and no one with any power has said the site is closing. I really don't see the point in speculating unless valid, backed up information, on this actual project can be written.

The funny thing is... if you meet people in greystones who don't read boards.ie and there are many, they have no idea that the marina project is under threat.

d'Oracle

I didn't think it was under threat.

My thinking was people on here think it is because they assume NAMA means FUBAR.

Fiachra2

d'Oracle wrote: »

I didn't think it was under threat.

My thinking was people on here think it is because they assume NAMA means FUBAR.

Regrettably we have no choice but to speculate because neither the council nor the developer will supply up to date factual information.
For example. The loan was in NAMA for quite some time before the public, or the councillors were told. Why ?
To the ordinary man in the street the involvement of NAMA suggests FUBAR. So why not tell the public? Why not explain to them that yes the project is in NAMA and yes we are dependent on funding from NAMA but because of factors X,Yand Z this is not a problem.
Instead we only found out when Cllr Fortune asked the question.
When asked whether this spelt disaster for the project the response was. No we are confident of getting funding. No further explanation offered.

The reality is that NAMA's brief is to obtain a financial return for the taxpayer. On the face of it providing funds for a yacht harbour and sailing clubs which offer no commercial return and certainly no capital return does not fall into that remit.
If the politicians who believe we dont have a problem would articulate WHY they believe that and explain in what way NAMA's brief allows it to fund this project then we would not have to speculate. The reality is that they have not done so and are unable to do so because they are living in hope.
Until there is a bit of honesty we can only speculate. However John keeps supplying us with (factual) pictures. The thread hasnt got abusive as some others have done and if you look at the number of vists this thread gets its clear that at least we are providing entertainment.

Blanchflower

I, Blanchflower, under cover of darkness ventured to the meeting as planned on Tuesday 12th October 2010. I fully intended to ask all the hard probing questions relating to NAMA and the future of the Greystones Harbour Development. Sipping on a hot whiskey I listened attentively to the proceedings throughout. The tenor of the meeting was “what will we do when we get to Heaven” rather than “will we get to Heaven”. However at the last moment completely loosing my nerve, perhaps afraid of upsetting the enthusiastic participants, I decided to keep quiet and slip away silently into the night air. I hope that the clubs get their clubhouses as promised by the promoters of this development. However I fear that their dreams may be unfulfilled. Only time and NAMA will tell.

recedite

That's "smoke and dagger" stuff, as Bertie used to say, but of course, nobody likes to be a party pooper