News and views on Greystones harbour and marina [SEE MODERATOR WARNING POST 1187]

Blanchflower

Fiachra2 wrote: »

I understand that Greystones Town council has been advised that the harbour project is now in NAMA and, contrary to the impression given recently, further progress is dependendent on funding being made available by NAMA.

I will post again when I get mopre details.

NAMA will not complete this white elephant of a development and they will certainly not build anything more than is necessary. The development even at the height of the property bubble did not make economic sence. And now it is certainly not a going concern. I wonder what type of haircut did it take on the transfer to NAMA?

Perhaps the sailing club will put in a cheeky offer to take it off their hands.

Jimjay

Blanchflower wrote: »

NAMA will not complete this white elephant of a development and they will certainly not build anything more than is necessary. The development even at the height of the property bubble did not make economic sence. And now it is certainly not a going concern. I wonder what type of haircut did it take on the transfer to NAMA?

Perhaps the sailing club will put in a cheeky offer to take it off their hands.

Thats very odd. A councillor, on the same day this post was written, wrote on his website that they have been given info from sispar that the harbour area and club facilities will be complete 2011 and the hourdings will be down by end of 2011.

http://www.derekmitchell.ie/?p=519

Fiachra2

Both Councillor Mitchell and Jones have stated that the project moving to NAMA has no effect. This would appear to be a simple and somewhat desperate denial of reality.

At the meeting on Tueday night Cllr Fortune made the point that no-one in the room could predict what would now happen. His assertion, according to himslf, went unchallenged by the other councillors, WCC staff and SISPAR representatives.

The problem that this approach by Jones and Mitchell presents is that it impedes action to rescue the situation. Tom Fortune intends to try an get working on contingency plans to see if we can get the hoardings removed and some landscaping done if NAMA refuse funding. (which presumably can be taken as a near certainty)However if other councillors are denying that there is a problem Toms task is made rather more difficult.

danjo

NAMA will not fund the development because there are no prospects of a return in the short term.

The request for planning permission for additional housing units appears to me as a cynical exercise to increase the book value before entering NAMA.

All efforts should now be channelled into a tidy up and the removal of the hoarding.

Blandpebbles

Tom Fortune intends to try an get working on contingency plans to see if

Typical flim flam from politicians to ensure they can put something in their newsletters.

No one is steering the ship, in fact the ships mast has fallen off, the anchor is lost and the crew have all been drinking the sea water.

recedite

According to Nama, in general;

Nama wrote:

Nama will make decisions about the completion or otherwise of projects based on a commercial rationale. These decisions will be taken by the board of the executive depending on the scale of the investment that may be required. The key concern is whether the investment will increase the overall return to the taxpayer. Nama will procure the services of planning specialists as required. Small amounts have been disbursed for the completion of specific projects. Nama is currently in the process of reviewing debtor business plans.

In other words they are not going to start building clubhouses to give away. If they did, it would be a scandal for the Irish taxpayer, who as we know, is having to borrow the money abroad at over 6% interest rates.

Any money they spend will be to complete and sell off other unfinished housing units quickly, the type which are likely to become worthless otherwise due to vandalism and not being fully weather-tight.

These Greystones councillors are like ostriches, they want to pretend everything is OK and if they keep saying that, then they will buy some time for themselves. At this stage they are mainly concerned with how they are going to survive the next elections.

Blanchflower

recedite wrote: »

According to Nama, in general;

In other words they are not going to start building clubhouses to give away. If they did, it would be a scandal for the Irish taxpayer, who as we know, is having to borrow the money abroad at over 6% interest rates.

Any money they spend will be to complete and sell off other unfinished housing units quickly, the type which are likely to become worthless otherwise due to vandalism and not being fully weather-tight.

These Greystones councillors are like ostriches, they want to pretend everything is OK and if they keep saying that, then they will buy some time for themselves. At this stage they are mainly concerned with how they are going to survive the next elections.

Points well made. NAMA will not spend (waste) scarce capital on white elephant madcap schemes which should never have started in the first place. My guess is that the haircut on this disaster is almost 100%.

Langerland

harbour, marina, harbour, marina, council, Sispar, harbour, council, marina, Sispar........They've all made a right pigs ar$e of this whole thing like the banks, Gov & developers have made of the country!!

Can we all chip in and just drop one massive bomb on the thing and rid ourselves of it!? I'm sick of it at this stage....:)

darter

Langerland wrote: »

Can we all chip in and just drop one massive bomb on the thing and rid ourselves of it!? I'm sick of it at this stage....:)

If you're sick of it now, what are you going to be like in 2 years, 3 years, 5 years, ...., when it's STILL going on...

Blandpebbles

Why can't we just all come together as a town and fix it up?

I have some 2x4 and white paint left over from a shed build, that should get us started... come on folks where is your town spirit.

recedite

I have a sledgehammer.....

Langerland

darter wrote: »

If you're sick of it now, what are you going to be like in 2 years, 3 years, 5 years, ...., when it's STILL going on...

Ah stop!! The pain of it! I can't take it I tells ya!!

Blandpebbles

The photos of happy smiling faces gambling and frolicking across a techno futuristic harbour entertainment and accommodation complex as depicted on the hoardings will be a far better view for years to come than what it hides.

Fiachra2

All joking aside the really scary part of todays Irish times article is the response from SISPAR to a question about work being stopped and the hoarding left there (indefinitely). They said it was "unlikely". So while some politicians can tell us that we need not worry (note the posts on the Greystones Guide regarding scaremongers). SISPAR themselves accept that there is a possibility that the project will be halted and left as is.

Blandpebbles

The day a politician answers a question will be the day we all see the plane flying over and little Tattoo ringing the bell and Mr. Rourke saying 'Welcome to Fantasy Ireland'

Pat Kenny should host an edition of Frontline in Greystones with local councillors and townsfolk present...

Having said that for every person here complaining there is another saying 'ah sure I will vote for yer man again, because he got that pedestrian crossing outside my house'.

Ireland has felt the warm hand of prosperity and affluence that generated greed and avarice, it will be many years if ever before the wanton money lust and nepotism decline.

hoags

"Information night on the future of Greystones Harbour
Greystones Motor Yacht Club is to hold an information night on the future of Greystones Harbour.
On Tuesday the 12th October at 8.45pm in the Beach House Lounge

A slide show detailing works to date and projected works will be shown to members and public alike.

Cllrs. Ciarán Hayden and Derek Mitchell will be on hand to take questions and it is also hoped that a representative from SISPAR will attend to answer technical questions.

The night is open to members and non members alike of GMYC"

Langerland

Thanks Hoags....will be attending.

Blandpebbles

Harris, Hayden and Fortune on East Coast earlier this morning.

Everything is rosey, everything is good...

Hayden: The people of Greystones will get the harbour and the facilities promised in 2011...... Sispar have said it is 'unlikely' the hoardings will stay up

Q1: Why would the hoardings even be an issue if we are to get everything that was promised?

Fortune: Will be chasing for answers to someone somewhere

Q2: What is he chasing, from whom and what is the deadline for these responses?

Harris: Blah Blah Fine Gael, NAMA, how soon can I get to the Dail...

Hayden: Seeking a meeting with Sispar, intends to do something


Q3: Meeting could have be scheduled by calling Sispar and arranging... why was this not done many moons ago?

Hayden: There will be a meeting in the beach house for fisherman and those using the harbour... and hopefully Sispar will attend

Q4: Have Sispar been invited officially? Or maybe they will pop in for a pint on the off chance.

All in all the usual politician speak of optimism until it all goes wrong and they will be the first to say they warned everyone..

And NAMA now own the loan and must clear any development

Q5: How can anyone say the development will be complete?

Declan Meehan has lost any teeth he may have had by simply not asking these councillors for dates and times for when things will be done.

hamstervision

I wonder if LivCom can retroactively overturn the most liveable community award, since the Greystones Harbour plans seemed to have been part of the reason we won... :rolleyes:

Blandpebbles

We won that thing because we commited to providing allowing Chinese Visitors to stay for free at the luxurious seafront Hotel of the La Touche...

I think we came out tops on the deal

recedite

hoags wrote: »

"Information night on the future of Greystones Harbour
Greystones Motor Yacht Club is to hold an information night on the future of Greystones Harbour.
On Tuesday the 12th October at 8.45pm in the Beach House Lounge

A slide show detailing works to date and projected works will be shown to members and public alike.

Cllrs. Ciarán Hayden and Derek Mitchell will be on hand to take questions and it is also hoped that a representative from SISPAR will attend to answer technical questions.

The night is open to members and non members alike of GMYC"

Not exactly impartial information then.
Maybe "wishful thinking and slideshow of works so far" would be a better description of the nights entertainment.

Blanchflower

Greystones harbour been attacked by the now Namaised SISPAR with the help of a number of well known fat cat quislings. The Fine Gale and Fianna Fall people responsible for this outrage must be severly punished at election time. If an unfortunate alien landed in Greystones Harbour methinks that he/she would think that they had landed in a harbour in northern region of France in and around 1945.

loyatemu

Blanchflower wrote: »

If an unfortunate alien landed in Greystones Harbour methinks that he/she would think that they had landed in a harbour in northern region of France in and around 1945.

no they wouldn't, they'd think it was a building site.

calm the rhetoric please, there have been a number of threads on this topic previously that have been locked, and this one is heading the same way.

Please keep to the topic - if you want to verbally abuse local politicians (and who wouldn't...) then wait for them to knock on your door, or head along the this "information evening" and shout at them there.

Blanchflower

loyatemu wrote: »

no they wouldn't, they'd think it was a building site.

calm the rhetoric please, there have been a number of threads on this topic previously that have been locked, and this one is heading the same way.

Please keep to the topic - if you want to verbally abuse local politicians (and who wouldn't...) then wait for them to knock on your door, or head along the this "information evening" and shout at them there.

Sorry about that but this matter is really getting under my skin as I feel so strongly about it. I fear that I may not be allowed speak my mind at the information evening if the goings on at the various harbour liaison meetings are anything to go by. However I will endeavour to ask the right questions and get the answers.

Fiachra2

I'm glad to see someone is going along to ask questions. (I would attend myself but it would be akin to pouring petrol on a bonfire.) In the interest of advancing our knowledge on this matter (which is what this thread is about) you might be good enough to ask the Mayor and Derek:

1.Why they think NAMA will provide funding to provide us yachties in the sailing club with a new clubhouse? (along with other more deserving groups such as the rowing club)

2.IF NAMA doesnt provide the funding what exactly are the councillors going to do then?

I would love to know is there any substance to their thinking.

By way of context I have copied below a paraphrse of a recent post by the Mayor on the Greystones guide.




"Following recent posts on boards.ie it is apparent that the scaremongers are returning to Greystones Harbour. The involvement of NAMA in phase 3 of the project seems to have given the naysayers the ammunition they strive for. I feel it is necessary to clarify that all development loans in the state over €5 million ..have no choice but to transfer to NAMA. SISPAR had no choice in the transfer of their borrowings to the state agency. It is also worth noting that good performing loans such as Greystones Harbour (phase 3) and bad loans are transferring to NAMA. The business plan being prepared by SISPAR for NAMA, I feel, will satisfy the criteria set down and we will see a full work out of the project and it will be beneficial to the state.

Councillor Hayden commented “I refuse to participate in a Boards.ie thread, on the harbour, as the contributors are faceless people who refuse to reveal their identities while continuously snipping at local politicians. .... The reality is that we are getting a world class maritime center in 12 short months delivered on our doorstep. This project is unrivalled in the British Isles and is being provided for the community free of charge”.

d'Oracle

The man has a point re: Boards.ie.

That's about all I have ever been able to say about Ciaran Hayden.

Joliegood

hoags wrote: »

"Information night on the future of Greystones Harbour
Greystones Motor Yacht Club is to hold an information night on the future of Greystones Harbour.
On Tuesday the 12th October at 8.45pm in the Beach House Lounge

A slide show detailing works to date and projected works will be shown to members and public alike.

Cllrs. Ciarán Hayden and Derek Mitchell will be on hand to take questions and it is also hoped that a representative from SISPAR will attend to answer technical questions.

The night is open to members and non members alike of GMYC"

Ireland play Slovakia at the same time and given that the Beach House is popular for watching games, this is hardly the best venue to hold a 'debate'. Then again, we should be used to poor planning by now

Tabnabs

Fiachra2 wrote: »

Councillor Hayden commented “The reality is that we are getting a world class maritime center in 12 short months delivered on our doorstep. This project is unrivalled in the British Isles and is being provided for the community free of charge”.

With all due respect, Councillor Hayden needs a reality check on that statement. A selection of small club houses, an average size marina, a slipway and a variety of retail (non marine related most likely), does not a world class maritime centre make.

I visited Marina Punta Faro in Italy, a large marina facility in the Northern Adriatic. Very much a destination harbour as many leisure marine harbours are in the Med. Their facilities include -

In the centre of the port, in a characteristic island, are located the sport activities, soccer, tennis courts and the swimming pool, the amphitheatre for the shows in the open air, the pub and the restaurant on the Sporting Club and the new wellness center.

Besides it is possible to found various types of services: brokers, charter service, nautical agency, Nautical equipment and clothing shops, bars and restaurants.

Now that's a world class maritime centre.

Is there even a boatyard to be built in Greystones? Drystack storage maybe?

As for unrivalled in the British Isles (where BTW?), a quick look at Port Solent marina on the south coast of England;

There is a fully serviced boat yard with storage ashore for 500 boats, 24-hour fuel, top quality showers and toilets, plus free car parking.

Patrols, CCTV and the lock, which allows 24-access to the marina, provide excellent security for Port Solent, which celebrates its 21st anniversary this year. Helpful and professional staff are around 24 hours a day to help you refuel, negotiate the lock, advise on good cruising destinations or assist with any problems.

Further services for berth holders include a free pump out, yacht brokerage, engine servicing, marine engineers, maintenance and repair specialists, sail training companies and the south coast's largest chandlery.

Just because Greystones is new doesn't make it special I'm afraid.

Blanchflower

Joliegood wrote: »

Ireland play Slovakia at the same time and given that the Beach House is popular for watching games, this is hardly the best venue to hold a 'debate'. Then again, we should be used to poor planning by now

Perhaps the organisers intend to hold the meeting during half time with the intention of exercising a ruthless guillotine at the start of the second half? That way they can get their message across without answering any thorny questions from the irksome naysayers from the local population

seamy_orr

Fiachra2 wrote: »

Councillor Hayden commented “I refuse to participate in a Boards.ie thread, on the harbour, as the contributors are faceless people who refuse to reveal their identities while continuously snipping at local politicians. .... The reality is that we are getting a world class maritime center in 12 short months delivered on our doorstep. This project is unrivalled in the British Isles and is being provided for the community free of charge”[/I]

Can someone inform Councillor Hayden that the term British Isles is extremely offensive and should not be used in any context by any Irish National, nevermind a member of public office.Get your head out of the oven.

Written Answers - Official Terms", Dáil Éireann - Volume 606 - 28 September 2005. In his response, the Irish Minister for Foreign Affairs stated that "The British Isles is not an officially recognised term in any legal or inter-governmental sense. It is without any official status. The Government, including the Department of Foreign Affairs, does not use this term. Our officials in the Embassy of Ireland, London, continue to monitor the media in Britain for any abuse of the official terms as set out in the Constitution of Ireland and in legislation. These include the name of the State, the President, Taoiseach and others."