Another New Marathon in Kerry??Whos interested?

bagus

Racing Flat wrote: »

To enter you have to be 18 though. Therefore, entrants are old enough to decide for themselves if they want to donate or collect for charity - doesn't need to be tied into a race, no?

With a lot of charity linked events the donation is still optional.

thirtyfoot

Racing Flat wrote: »

What the organiser hopes happens...'What a great race! Oh yes, there's the goodie bag - OMG flavoured water - I love that! And a powerbar energy protein thing - they'll really aid my recovery, best get that into me. Oh look at the t-shirt - isn't it lovely! Bet it's a perfect fit too - the 10,000 of us all look much the same size don' we? Oh, look at those blister plasters - they'll be great for my feet. There's the medal, can't wait to get that framed and up on teh sitting room wall. What's this - oh great a load of flyers for other arces - handy to plan my future, wouldn't have known there were any other races on only for that. A cereal bar! That'll be lovely on the way home.'

What might happen to grumpy people - not me, honest....'What a sh1te race. Can't believe they put back the start 15minutes to wait for the people who couldn't get there on time. Totally messed up my warm up. And I can't believe they had no gels or bottles for the drinks - no wonder my face is all sticky and I feel a bit light-headed - better get something to eat out of the goodie bag. Oh for f*ck sake - a squashed power bar. Again. Why do they always put those in? Sure I'd better have some, I need it. (one bite later...) Oh for f*ck sake, why do I always make that mistake. They're horrible and it's all over my teeth now. and why won't it dissolve, no matter how long I chew it just won't go down. Better wash it down with something. Oh for f*ck sake. Flavoured water. Who drinks that? What else is here - t-shirts too big as usual, at least I can give it to my dad to paint the house. The inside of the house that is. Blister plasters - well they don't work. At leats there's a bar - oh it's only a cereal bar, maybe herself will have it when we run out of biscuits. Oh, a medal - pity I'm not 10 anymore. Come on, let's go, I'm not waiting around for the presentation - they're never on time. And make sure you save your watch time, becuase the results probably won't be up any time soon.'

Brilliant stuff, especially the T shirt for dad to paint the house!!!

helpisontheway

nerraw1111 wrote: »

Best of luck with it.

Beautiful part of the country.

Comments about his age are ridiculous. Play the ball not the man. There are kids doing great things in Ireland, be it organising art exhibitions or live gigs.

I think Helpisonitsway is far too harsh on the idea. He hasn't suggested anything positive or how the OP can achieve his ambitious plan.

It may or may not work. But don't slate the guy simply for trying or to suggest that being young is a barrier to organising a race.

The fixtures calender is already in a terrible state and allowing these guys to come in and organise races to make a profit is only making it worse.If by some miracle he gets a permit for this that is another weekend gone for clubs who may be looking to organise a race to raise funds for their club to operate.I know several clubs who wont even consider running a race due to the already huge amount of races available around the south.
These road races and half marathons[most unpermitted] also constantly clash with County championship events leading to terrible numbers in these competitions.I know the Kerry County board were asked to run a senior cross country league this year so the senior runners would have more races;4 turned up due to most of them running in a non permitted event in Killarney organised by a buisness with no interest in athletics and only making a profit.Thats fantastic for the sport isnt it?

Racing Flat

bagus wrote: »

With a lot of charity linked events the donation is still optional.

I was at a race recently and they had a novel approach to race entry fees - there were none! But where you went to register and get your number there were buckets where you could put a donation towards the charity of the organisers choice if you wanted. Maybe a bit of reverse psychology at work, but I put 20quid in whereas an equivalent event would normally cost 10-15Euro. But I was happy to do so as it was my choice. Probably not economically viable for most races, but I thought it was great.

dmire

Approx 2000 people ran the Dingle half and full marathon last month, this was the first time the event was run. Even if you get half this amount you would be meeting your target.

MrCreosote

helpisontheway wrote: »

The fixtures calender is already in a terrible state and allowing these guys to come in and organise races to make a profit is only making it worse.If by some miracle he gets a permit for this that is another weekend gone for clubs who may be looking to organise a race to raise funds for their club to operate.I know several clubs who wont even consider running a race due to the already huge amount of races available around the south.
These road races and half marathons[most unpermitted] also constantly clash with County championship events leading to terrible numbers in these competitions.I know the Kerry County board were asked to run a senior cross country league this year so the senior runners would have more races;4 turned up due to most of them running in a non permitted event in Killarney organised by a buisness with no interest in athletics and only making a profit.Thats fantastic for the sport isnt it?

What makes it "nonpermitted"-just if it isn't registered with the AAI? The vast majority of people taking part in a marathon/half-marathon won't be members of a club and won't even know or care about about cross country leagues/AAI calendars. In fact if most people get a feeling an event is going to be elitist, they won't bother turning up. That's why the market for nonpermitted events is growing. And yes it is fantastic having a great choice of events. Maybe not for the "sport", but for the average runner it definitely is.

As for a marathon in Killarney- it would be great. Personally I find it hard to see it happening in January or February. Another half marathon would be ideal around that time of the year though for spring marathon training.

baza1976

helpisontheway wrote: »

RobMarathonMan wrote: »

You've got me so underestimated,I have already ticked those boxes but thats fine.All the more reason to prove you wrong and show you it can be done.quote]
See i know for a fact you dont have a race permit as i attended the last Kerry County Board meeting and your race was not proposed.Therefore you do not have a permit,you may have applied for one but that doesnt mean you will get it.
Killarney National Park-I will take your word for it.
Clubs-Believe me you dont have the support of the clubs that i can guarantee.[Therefore will very unlikely recieve a permit]

Is there need for an AAI permit???

helpisontheway

The way things are now races dont need a permit but you will notice that all the best events around the country have one!
In Britain you cannot approach county councils,gardai etc without a permit and a large percentage of the profits of every race go back into the sport as a result of getting a permit.From what i gather this is in the pipeline in Ireland and i for one hope it happens as half these cowboys organising non permitted events will never get a permit if they have been doing it previously without one!
Yes it is non permitted if it hasnt been granted permission by AAI.On another note which i have stated before if registered club athletes who are also internationals run in these events they risk being sanctioned by AAI.I dont think it has happened before but watch this space as there is a serious clampdown on the way and somebody could be made an example of!!

thirtyfoot

helpisontheway wrote: »

In Britain you cannot approach county councils,gardai etc without a permit and a large percentage of the profits of every race go back into the sport as a result of getting a permit.From what i gather this is in the pipeline in Ireland and i for one hope it happens as half these cowboys organising non permitted events will never get a permit if they have been doing it previously without one!

I would like to see this (as in a proper permit system).

helpisontheway wrote: »

Yes it is non permitted if it hasnt been granted permission by AAI.On another note which i have stated before if registered club athletes who are also internationals run in these events they risk being sanctioned by AAI.I dont think it has happened before but watch this space as there is a serious clampdown on the way and somebody could be made an example of!!

I wouldn't like to see this though.

thirtyfoot

MrCreosote wrote: »

What makes it "nonpermitted"-just if it isn't registered with the AAI? The vast majority of people taking part in a marathon/half-marathon won't be members of a club and won't even know or care about about cross country leagues/AAI calendars. In fact if most people get a feeling an event is going to be elitist, they won't bother turning up. That's why the market for nonpermitted events is growing. And yes it is fantastic having a great choice of events. Maybe not for the "sport", but for the average runner it definitely is.

Thats a pity that people involved in road running won't care about the broader sport. I suppose its up to the people in the broader sport to get them interested and caring about the sport. The 'sport' is predominately full of average runners and there is no elitism in the 'sport' as is and I would say any average runner who gets involved more actively and constructively in the broader sport usually wax lyrical about how great it is. You saw the reactions of the Boards AC members after their first taste of championship racing in the Dublin Novice, they were buzzing. In my opinion the average runner is missing out big time on so many levels by not being in the club structure. Any average runners out there, FIND A CLUB - You won't regret it.

asimonov

Some of these posts are laughable, and come across as protectionist. These "cowboys" running "nonpermitted" races have done a hell of a job increasing adult participation in running in this country, and play a valuable role in creating a gateway to the sport in general. They should be applauded, in Kilkenny last month a privately run 10k and half marathon had 400 participant while the county road race the weekend before had a combined women and mens field of about 30. The commercial race was well promoted, well marshalled, had chip timing and by giving medals to everyone acknowledge the fact that for
some people finishing is the goal. I don't know if they were "permit holders" or not, but I don't see the cowboy in that. The county road race was probably promoted on the Leinster athletics website and as in the athletics section of the local paper.
The key to success in any market is
not to control it with protectionist barriers but simply to give the people what they want. In this day, anything that supports and promotes a healthy and active lifestyle is to be applauded and supported.

toomuchdetail

For what its worth I think there is one or two posts in here where the poster seems to have an axe to grind and it is skewing the discussion :
Would a half/full marathon work and gain interest in the national park – for me definitely.
Would it work in early part of the year – not so sure as the training requirement on long dark winter only make it harder .
Not relevant but could an 18yr old pull of this event – of course why not .
Should he bite off an event this size as his first adventure – probably not – see the gaelforce posts to see how even a well established event team can make a balls of organising an event. Value,experience and safety are key .
Ran 3 half marathons this year , 5-6 Tri’s and 2 adventure races , did not look for a permit with any of the organisors, where the money was going didn’t bother me to much , what age the organisor was never crossed my mind .


My advice would be to get Failte Ireland behind you along with local business and keep it simple – Look at the Achill Roar for an outstanding success with 250 people approx

RobMarathonMan

groovyg wrote: »

Think you are being a bit harsh about the fact he is under 18 -I don't expect him to put on a one man show and organise it all by himself - if he has the support of others and a local running club it go off with out a hitch.

I was reading about this guy in the Times a few months back - setting up his own company with his bro in transition year.

http://www.irishtimes.com/newspaper/frontpage/2009/0813/1224252501479.html

You can't tar all teenagers with the same brush.

Maybe best to organise a half marathon first to see how it takes off. You don't want to end up with another Galway bay marathon fiasco.

The number of marathons that were put on this year, with the the marathon series that was run over in Galway and Connemara during the summer and the two trail marathons in North and the new Dingle marathon - it has certainly added alot more choice to whats on around the country.

Yes it will just be a half marathon on the first year and take things from there.I think building on experience and support through a more manageable half marathon is the best option.Also it will be on in march.therefore enough time for training and a good warm up for the bigger races later in the year.

useurename

id be all on for half marathons on saturdays.after all the training you could go for shower and a few pints without having to worry about the pain in the morning.all for killarney.but am excited about the one in ballyvaughan from the previous posts.medals are a waste.and 30 euro should be the max for a half marathon.:cool:

Hard Worker

I don't know what age you are or when you will be 18, however, you should note that the Gardai will not permit the event if the race director is under 18. You should bear in mind that the race director and any other directors of the organising company, are responsible for all health and safety issues. You may need to appoint someone else in that position.
Best of luck.

RobMarathonMan

Hard Worker wrote: »

I don't know what age you are or when you will be 18, however, you should note that the Gardai will not permit the event if the race director is under 18. You should bear in mind that the race director and any other directors of the organising company, are responsible for all health and safety issues. You may need to appoint someone else in that position.
Best of luck.

I have already had a meeting with the Gardai and I am sure that the Sergeant knows my age and that was not an issue but I will confirm that.Also I think someone else will get the position of race director and health and safety officer.Thanks for the heads up.

willit

It is not solely the domain of sanctioned clubs or the AAI to organise events such as this so I am appalled at the attitude of some posters on this forum. Why would Rob be any less entitled to try to organise this than anyone else? A particular poster has made an issue of Rob's age however he has stated on more than a few posts that he is not running this alone so it could be assumed that some of the group he is working with are over 18, just an assumption but unless Rob states otherwise I will stick with it.

While I'm not a member of a running club I am a member of various other sports clubs and have participated in events, for example golf scrambles, organised by private individuals for profit and would never put these down in the manner of some posts on here belittling Rob and talking about "cowboys" and "nonpermitted" events. These non-club outings are usually extremely enjoyable and certainly draw in people who might not be affiliated to a club or even play the sport at all. This is how you attract people to your sport, by running these events. I've certainly never showed up to an event and asked what the organiser's age was or, if an event was run poorly expected that the organiser must have been a child, that's just ridiculous and ageism at its extreme, shame on you I say.:mad::mad: And to the poster who says that running is not an elitist sport, why then, in the only officially organised run I've partaken in, was I made start from the group at the back while "serious" participants were put up front? How can someone who's not a "serious" participant not feel second class? We've got personal bests too you know, from our very light hearted training runs.

As for this post, I was actually looking for information on marathon's / half marathon's / 10K runs etc. in the Kerry area and came across this post. An earlier poster suggested that this would be what would happen and most people would be put off by the hap hazard way the event is being formed over a few days of posts. To be honest I have been put off the sport of running by the attitude of people who are club members and seem to think that only clubs and the AAI should stand to profit from running. Your time would be better spent organising golf outings or club lottery's or some such activity to raise money for your club rather than shutting out the realm of running from the rest of the country. Don't worry, the GUI or golf club members throughout Ireland won't complain if you or your running club makes a couple of quid from our sport.

Best of luck Rob, don't charge too much and I'm sure you'll have a successful day.

donothoponpop

willit wrote: »

,.. why then, in the only officially organised run I've partaken in, was I made start from the group at the back while "serious" participants were put up front?

So that you don't get stampeded by faster, better, more serious, runners. Its a safety issue, just one of the many safety issues that a good race director will know about.

willit wrote: »

... golf scrambles...

Chock full of sporty goodness.

thirtyfoot

willit - You mention golf a lot, so I guess you are found of that pastime. In which case, accusing athletics of being elitist is a little bit like the kettle calling the pot black considering golf is probably one of the elitist pastimes out there.

http://www.irishexaminer.com/breaking/sport/mhsnkfkfcwmh/

Must put of the stilletoes and fake boobs and see can I get that membership up in Portmarnock:p

Athletics/running is not elitist, that to me is a joke and as a sport has some some of the lowest economic, social and gender barriers to entry. We accept all sorts.

eliwallach

willit wrote: »

And to the poster who says that running is not an elitist sport, why then, in the only officially organised run I've partaken in, was I made start from the group at the back while "serious" participants were put up front? How can someone who's not a "serious" participant not feel second class?

I'm with DNP here.
Logistically and realistically why would slower runners want to start up at the top of the field . FFS they will obviously just get in the way of the faster runners behind them!
I'm not an elite runner but do observe the etiquette of race starts. I start in an area of the starting bunch where I feel I won't be hindering anyone behind me and conversely, where I feel nobody in front will be a hinderance to me. This doesn't always work out but I do my best.
It's the runners (and [dare i say it] fun walkers) new to the game who congregate like lemmings at the top of the field just to get bumped and pushed out of the way by faster moving runners behind them, who don't expect to see 3 or 4 women out for a stroll & a chat linking arms in front of them*.

Rant over.
But it is a bug-bear of mine.

* Sweeping sexist generalisation there but you get my drift

Apologies to the OP for straying way off topic.

misty floyd

willit wrote: »

An earlier poster suggested that this would be what would happen and most people would be put off by the hap hazard way the event is being formed over a few days of posts.

I posted that decisions were made over a few hours and that didn't fill me with confidence. Rob clarified somewhat. I still think people would be put off a little...don't you? Lets be honest.

I personally have no problem with people making money on a race...I've entered a few and knew that was the case.

RobMarathonMan

misty floyd wrote: »

I posted that decisions were made over a few hours and that didn't fill me with confidence. Rob clarified somewhat. I still think people would be put off a little...don't you? Lets be honest.

I personally have no problem with people making money on a race...I've entered a few and knew that was the case.

I have spoken to race directors and they have admitted that decisions and original ideas were changed based on advice,its in the process of making an event sucessful and most convenient for you,the runner.
I apologise for doing so in a public forum,lesson learned.
I hope ye understand it was for the good of the event and that it was not meant to have startled people to be "put off" the event but to understand it was done so ye would have the say to make the event most attractive.
And lets not debate about elitism everyone,all sports have their aspects of elitism but for the most part at these events people are testing their training and progress,competing against themselves.Striving for a improved PB.
With so many entrants only a few can be real contenders for the top spots but its what you yourself get from running,be it a better self esteem,sense of achievement and well being,sheer enjoyment and freedom.Thats your own personal reward and just understand others ambitions to be the best at what they do and get out of running.

RoyMcC

Good man Rob, well said.

willit

It's amazing to me that people only read what they want to in posts. Firstly apologies to the OP but I am going to answer to the posts.

To Misty Floyd, I’m sorry if you took me as quoting you, I was simply using it as a referral. I don’t disagree with you that members of clubs and so called serious runners probably would look at a forum like this and think twice, but it seems to me that it would be better that Rob runs the event in Feb or March than June, going by the posts. That’s just being honest.

To Eliwallach, you say it's a bug bear of yours when people start from the front and that's fair enough. My point is not that people should intentionally hinder anyone else, but why invite people to participate in a race only to have such segregation at the starting line? Is not everyone entitled to give it their best go? So what if you're not as fast as the person behind you, it's the taking part is what it should be all about. People intentionally getting in the way should be marshaled and offenders identified and not permitted to run in sanctioned events thereafter.

To Tingle, I never said anything about golf not being elitist. I know full well it is, I was simply commenting that someone else had said running is not elitist when it is. I play football, rugby and soccer as well as golf and there is elitism across the board, I don't deny that, so people shouldn't try to deny it about this sport. Basically, in running the elitism is down to ability and the way those with ability have a superiority complex and talk down to those that don't, as is the case in most sports.

To Donothoponpop, seriously, "chock full of sporty goodness". Thank you for making my point about talking down to people for me.

Again to the OP, sorry for getting off topic here, I was seriously put off by the post that said something along the lines of “I know for a fact you don’t have the clubs on your side and therefore you probably won’t get a permit” (I know that’s not a word for word quote). Why would anyone be so vindictive towards a young person trying to organise a healthy activity that anyone should be able to take part in? If we only had more teenagers like Rob in this country things might not be as bad as they are. Instead we have adults trying to hinder the few pro-active young people we do have.

As for the race in Killarney, I think it's a great idea but I hope you plan and organize it to the nth degree otherwise it seems your first attempt will be your last. Best of luck to you, if it goes ahead you can count on me being there, albeit somewhere towards the back.

Reaganomical

willit wrote: »

To Eliwallach, you say it's a bug bear of yours when people start from the front and that's fair enough. My point is not that people should intentionally hinder anyone else, but why invite people to participate in a race only to have such segregation at the starting line? Is not everyone entitled to give it their best go? So what if you're not as fast as the person behind you, it's the taking part is what it should be all about. People intentionally getting in the way should be marshaled and offenders identified and not permitted to run in sanctioned events thereafter.

willit - you make some valid points. Briefly, in relation to segregation at the start line, this really is primarily for people's own safety. The elite runners (by elite, I mean top 1% of the race, not those with high-faluting mindsets) will go off like a bullet at the start of a race, and will mow down people. Call it competitive spirit or whatever, but that's why people are advised not to stand at the front of a startline if they are not able to go with the lead runners.

I have seen people stumbling and getting trampled at the start of events with the surges that come from behind, it ain't pretty.

donothoponpop

willit wrote: »

To Donothoponpop, seriously, "chock full of sporty goodness". Thank you for making my point about talking down to people for me.

The OP has got a lot of useful advice on how to go about starting up his race from people here, your first post is wildly OT and angry. I've been here a while, I don't see this "talking down to people" myself. Perhaps if you had read a few more posts to get a flavour of the forum, you'd have a better view.

But if mild humour bothers you, I retract my statement that golf scrambles contains any trace of sporty goodness.;)

willit

schnellimbiss wrote: »

willit - you make some valid points. Briefly, in relation to segregation at the start line, this really is primarily for people's own safety. The elite runners (by elite, I mean top 1% of the race, not those with high-faluting mindsets) will go off like a bullet at the start of a race, and will mow down people. Call it competitive spirit or whatever, but that's why people are advised not to stand at the front of a startline if they are not able to go with the lead runners.

I have seen people stumbling and getting trampled at the start of events with the surges that come from behind, it ain't pretty.

schnellimbiss - thanks for that, I can see that there would be health and safety issues as tempers rise. As a relatively fit person I was just made feel second class simply because I was not a member of a running club, maybe there was another reason but that's the impression I got by the way the organisers were lining us up. In the end I finished ahead of some club members who were allowed to start ahead of me so it isn't an exact science I guess. End of the day, good luck to you Rob, I'll show up at your event and promise not to make any fuss at the start

thirtyfoot

[QUOTE=willit;62623236
To Tingle, I never said anything about golf not being elitist. I know full well it is, I was simply commenting that someone else had said running is not elitist when it is. I play football, rugby and soccer as well as golf and there is elitism across the board, I don't deny that, so people shouldn't try to deny it about this sport. Basically, in running the elitism is down to ability and the way those with ability have a superiority complex and talk down to those that don't, as is the case in most sports.

[/QUOTE]

Sorry, I thought by what you were saying that running wasn't inclusive and an elitist sport in the sense that only certain people can partake and invited to partake.

The elitism you speak about is of course in every sport (or pastime) and in every walk of life as in people will be better at things, know more things, will probably have more knowledge or experience as a result but I don't think people talk down to others in running. You probably have met or spoken to some people who are nasty and happen to be faster than you, not nasty because they are faster than you. The many people I have spoken to or had discussion with who are faster than me have always been accomodating and supportive. I think most posters here would agree with that, in that when they ever do get to talk to an elite (as in a true elite like a world class athlete/olympian) that they are very nice, civil and very helpful. Being fast doesn't turn you into a d8ckhead and bar the very few there is always someone faster so its all relative. I had a conversation once with a man who at the time was the fastest man ever in his event and he was more interested in my sh*ty career and races than looking down on me with his own self-importance. You need to meet nicer people in my opinion, a good place to start would be to join an athletic club, you won't meet a nicer bunch of people than grassroots athletics folk;)

thirtyfoot

willit wrote: »

To Eliwallach, you say it's a bug bear of yours when people start from the front and that's fair enough. My point is not that people should intentionally hinder anyone else, but why invite people to participate in a race only to have such segregation at the starting line? Is not everyone entitled to give it their best go? So what if you're not as fast as the person behind you, it's the taking part is what it should be all about. People intentionally getting in the way should be marshaled and offenders identified and not permitted to run in sanctioned events thereafter.

I'm sorry but that is a very naive view when it comes to the reality of mass participation races in my opinion. You need 'segregation' as you call it. Segregation allows the vast majority of people (who are honest about their ability) give it their best go. Its in all sports but thats not elitism that is called competition, grading, ranking. If you had no segregation at races there would an awful lot of people getting in the way and an awful lot of people banned from sanctioned events if you went down your route. I would say the vast majority of runners have no problem with 'segregation'. I think if you wish to partake in races you better get used to it and when some lad in a bib asked you to move away from the front of the field to not take it personally.

Also, lets be honest here, its not the taking part is whats its all about, its the doing the best you can. People in the main don't train for races like the DCM next weekend merely to turn up and take part, the guy running 3:59 will be as determined as the guy doing 2:29.

misty floyd

RobMarathonMan wrote: »

I have spoken to race directors and they have admitted that decisions and original ideas were changed based on advice,its in the process of making an event sucessful and most convenient for you,the runner.
I apologise for doing so in a public forum,lesson learned.

Putting my hands up here Rob. I haven't been very helpfull. Sorry. I know you came to boards with good intentions only. Good luck dude.