Knock Apparition

Thornography

The idea of getting it locked was cause we have gone WAY off topic, tbh its about time there was a new thread started cause this is a very valid discussion, just not the most ideal place to have it.

I for one will clear my schedule to attend the next coming, If anyone wants to help me set it up that would be great, maybe some mod support ^Nudge 6th^

Until then it really looks like were not going to get any additional proof on exactly what happened, if we were we probably would have seen it in the papers by now where money could be made from a feasible shot.

btw, Ill be going to the next as a skeptic wanting to be proved wrong, so ill be keeping an open mind so don`t give me crap about wanting to go to prove the believers wrong.

gdael

Thornography,
There is nothing wrong with this thread. It has not gone off topic at all.

Let me quote the OP.

pookie82 wrote: »

Hey guys,

Before I start I'd just like to say that although I was raised as a Catholic with averagely religious parents, I am now on the religious fence but leaning most definitely towards there probably not being anything out there/up there etc, and I have long since turned away from anything to do with the Catholic church.

This whole furore this week over the expected appartion of the Virgin Mary predicted for 3pm today in Knock got me thinking this week, and after what I heard from some (who I would have deemed very reliable) eye witnesses a few hours ago, someone made some freaky sh*t happen there today.

Apparently there was a "sun dance" of some sort, i.e. the sun started to loop around in the sky and emenate light auras, spinning almost towards the earth at times and at others receeding and emitting a blinding light. Thousands of people present allegedly witnessed this simultaneously, all reporting pretty much the same thing, which happened on two seperate occasions and went on for minutes at a time (so not a blink-of-an-eye "vision" or anything).

The people who told me they had seen this were really freaked out today and are regularly hugely cynical. I suppose there's an element of "if you were there in the first place some part of you wanted to see something" but to be honest, I would never have expected to hear these people get genuinely petrified by what they saw.

Now the only thing that I can come up with is some kind of mass hypnosis which induced a common hallucination. I have no idea of the mechanics of such a feat but I'm sure it can be done. The other solution is obviously some sort of technical equipment which can magically blind people with a light, make them think they see the sun doing freaky things and can leave them all pretty terrified without copping on to what's really going on. The last solution of course is one in which something paranormal actually happened, and although I'm quite a fan of reading about all things paranormal, I would be a skeptic by nature, particlularly when it comes to religion.

I'll be interested to see if there were any camera crews there or if there's any media follow up on this. It would strike me as highly dubious that this phenomenon was predicted (well, the blessed virgin didn't show up herself it seems, but there was much talk by this clairvoyant dude that she would send a sign) but not one person showed up with a camera.

I guess what I'm asking is if anyone has any idea on how something like this might be fabricated (if it was, for those of you who might believe it was genuinely a religious sign). Is there any evidence in the past of mass hallucinations or hypnosis in this context? How on earth did the guy do it????

Any thoughts? Thanks for reading!!

Seems to me this thread is bang on topic.

How do people who believe anything happened explain the lack of photos and videos?
Given that in some of the videos we can see lots of people with cameras. Was there a news crew there?

AI

http://www.liveoddsandscores.com/news/press-releases/421475/bookies-predict-virgin-to-visit-donegal

Paddy Power said “If you are to believe all these sightings, the Virgin Mary is making more appearances in Ireland this year than U2. I’m keeping my faith in Knock as the next stop in Her Irish tour”

Next confirmed sighting of the Blessed Virgin

5/1 Knock Shrine
10/1 Kerrytown (Co. Donegal)
12/1 Croagh Patrick
12/1 Lough Derg
16/1 Glen Columbkille
20/1 Glendalough
20/1 Clonmacnoise
33/1 Ballinspittle
100/1 Galway Races

Not great odds for a miracle!

pookie82

gdael wrote: »

Thornography,
There is nothing wrong with this thread. It has not gone off topic at all.

Let me quote the OP.



Seems to me this thread is bang on topic.

How do people who believe anything happened explain the lack of photos and videos?
Given that in some of the videos we can see lots of people with cameras. Was there a news crew there?

Of course it's gone off topic. If you read my OP I have expressed an interest in seeing any footage but for the most part my reason for posting is the final paragraph, and not one person has addressed that. It's just tit for tat "there is a Virgin Mary and she was there"/"no she wasn't don't be daft" argument without any ideas being put forward as to how the guy there might have orchestrated such a feat without there being any sort of "divine intervention".

blue42

Dean820 wrote: »

Was that directed at me? I'm open to there being a god as well as there being none. Unlike you, who it would seem is single-minded and relies on blind faith.

is that not what faith is supposed to be!

Slow Motion

blue42 wrote: »

is that not what faith is supposed to be!

This and the post you quoted are the reasons for asking for the thread to be locked! And as such I add my +1 to the request as the thread will only degenerate with such responses. People offending others and looking to be offended does not an interesting thread make!

Mr. Presentable

adolly wrote: »

i am a 30 year old im not over religous
i saw what i saw and even my 4 year old son could tell me i asked him what he saw and he told me what i had seen .
nothing freeky happened it was deffinately our lady and the peace was just something else and i believe our lady talked to a girl whos child died 3 weeks ago and what she said to her was ANY ONE WHO HAS WROTE PETITIONS THEY ARE ANSWERED AND THAT SHE WILL BE BACK BEFORE THE CHRISTMAS so if you have any faith you will be there and see for yourselfs and my mother took a photo of our lady appearing and it is beautiful it was when the sun shined down but on the picture its like a glow of light coming outat the sides like wings/ or even or ladys arms it was amazing so thats what i saw and i did see the sun dance around and i did see the different colours
all i say im one of the lucky ones

Welcome to boards.ie. Your first ever post is a doozy. Post the photo.

sim2

I think if people want to go to Knock, or anywhere else because they believe, that is their right otherwise we are going down an historic route of not allowing people exercise their rights! Had a look on youtube and some of the comments under the video are disgraceful!!! The only think I objected to on the video was the fact that there is a screaming infant on it and it's mother/father did nothing to stop the child, who sounds in some form of distress, from crying

koHd

Irish and knock tourism boards anybody?

If you stare at the sun for as little as 3 seconds your eyes get distorted and the sun can appear to change colour, move etc.

Add mass hysteria to the mix and there you go.

Case closed.

A Disgrace

But there was a weather phenonemon there yesterday, they even reported it on the forecast after yesterdays RTE News.. It's a BIG coincidence, albeit a perfectly explainable one.. but still, weird right?

koHd

I've just watched the video a person made of it. It's acually cringe worthy.

The sun comes out and they start praying. The screaming baby doesn't help matters.

If I showed that to any sane person and didn't tell them it was Irish catholics, they would think it was some crazy cult (but then again, what is the difference? heh)

A Disgrace wrote: »

But there was a weather phenonemon there yesterday, they even reported it on the forecast after yesterdays RTE News.. It's a BIG coincidence, albeit a perfectly explainable one.. but still, weird right?

Any links to a news report about this phenomenal weather? I've googled it and searched rte's web site but can't find anything about a weather phenonemon.

It just looks like the sun came out from behind clouds. Which it does most days.

EDIT: Just realised you said yesterday. So it wasn't on the same day of the supposed apparition?

That's not even coincidence. It's just weather.

Tragamin2k2

koHd wrote: »

If I showed that to any sane person and didn't tell them it was Irish catholics, they would think it was some crazy cult (but then again, what is the difference? heh)

God i read about those cults! Everyone dressing in black and saying the lord is gonna come back and judge us and everything!

schween

AI wrote: »

100/1 Galway Races

They should enter a horse called The Virgin Mary into next years races and see how many people see an apparition.

There's an article in the Belfast Telegraph and the description of the hysteria is frightening. http://www.belfasttelegraph.co.uk/news/local-national/row-is-brewing-with-catholic-church-over-visionary-claims-at-shrine-14547186.html

However, people are entitled to believe what they want and I respect that.

Scawgeen

What's the story with the pink hue ? I'm not familiar with video recording. At the end of the recording the man standing in front of the person with the camera casts a kind of shadow blocking the pink hue. I'm assuming everybody else sees a pink hue in this you tube clip

mambo

Check out the photos with the report

http://www.independent.ie/national-news/selfproclaimed-visionary-hails-a-second-apparition-but-clerics-sceptical-1930793.html

or more precisely, photo #5. :eek:

koHd

mambo wrote: »

Check out the photos with the report

http://www.independent.ie/national-news/selfproclaimed-visionary-hails-a-second-apparition-but-clerics-sceptical-1930793.html

or more precisely, photo #5. :eek:

:eek:

Which one of them is the Virgin Mary?

heh

Oryx

I realise this thread is a debate that hinges a lot on belief. But please respect viewpoints on either side and put your point without getting personal or disparaging of someones faith. Thanks.

Nehaxak

koHd wrote: »

I've just watched the video a person made of it. It's acually cringe worthy.

The sun comes out and they start praying. The screaming baby doesn't help matters.

That's absolutely dreadful.
I really did think the country and our people had moved on a fair aul bit now from that rediculous carry on but wow, this is just bloody sad
Everyone looking at the sun and praying, a sun no different than any other day and they even clapped as it went back in behind the clouds.
Yet another embarrassment to the country, as if we didn't need any more of them.

faceman

Nehaxak wrote: »

That's absolutely dreadful.
I really did think the country and our people had moved on a fair aul bit now from that rediculous carry on but wow, this is just bloody sad
Everyone looking at the sun and praying, a sun no different than any other day and they even clapped as it went back in behind the clouds.
Yet another embarrassment to the country, as if we didn't need any more of them.

How does this equate to an embarrassment to the country?

A large collection of people assemble to try witness reward to their fate. Many fall into prayer. Whats the issue?

I have no issue in people believing or not believing in the religion of others. However trying to label or create a stigma for individuals and their fate is a larger embarrassment to the country than anything else. It breeds prejudice, ignorance and intolerance.

baaaa

faceman wrote: »

How does this equate to an embarrassment to the country?

A large collection of people assemble to try witness reward to their fate. Many fall into prayer. Whats the issue?

I have no issue in people believing or not believing in the religion of others. However trying to label or create a stigma for individuals and their fate is a larger embarrassment to the country than anything else. It breeds prejudice, ignorance and intolerance.

:D:D:D:D:D:D:D:D:D:D:D:D

Nehaxak

faceman wrote: »

A large collection of people assemble to try witness reward to their fate. Many fall into prayer. Whats the issue?

It's the sun and the clouds, nothing more, it cannot be anything more than that, it is nothing more than that, it is the sun and some clouds and people are praying to the sun and clouds and then clapping when the sun goes behind the clouds as if to suggest it was otherwise and get people around fueled up to believe themselves it was something other than that.
The "prediction" of an apparition was from a charlaton, those attending where caught up in absolute blind faith and then, after all their faith in God, pray to the sun and clouds.
Maybe you don't find it an embarrassment but I do, I find it utterly appalling that people in this day and age can believe such absolute nonesense predictions from charlaton self proclaimed "prophets" and I think that Joe Coleman should be in prison for using such nonesense techniques to gain such a high persuasion over these people for his own gain.

bigeasyeah

mambo wrote: »

Check out the photos with the report

http://www.independent.ie/national-news/selfproclaimed-visionary-hails-a-second-apparition-but-clerics-sceptical-1930793.html

or more precisely, photo #5. :eek:

Im getting me some religion

Myrddin

mambo wrote: »

Check out the photos with the report

http://www.independent.ie/national-news/selfproclaimed-visionary-hails-a-second-apparition-but-clerics-sceptical-1930793.html

or more precisely, photo #5. :eek:

There's probably some new tarmacadum being laid nearby.

But seriously, this is just clearly some mass hysteria syndrome. I don't understand how some people seen the sundance, and some didnt...where they looking at the wrong sun?

I fully respect anybodys belief, much the same as I'd expect my own belief respected. I'd never set out to point out flaws in any one persons faith, and for the people who believe they saw something, then thats reward enough for them and Im happy for them.

But I cant help but be aware of the fact that there are countless other religions in the world, who devoutely worship countless different Gods all according to their own religion precepts. Whos to say Allah isnt more real than God as we know him? Are all the Buddhists and Hindi wrong? Surely that many people cant believe in false Gods. See here - http://www.keepandshare.com/doc/view.php?u=11069&i=1123

Regards Joe Coleman, its a well known fact for anyone who knows him that he charges E60 for a visit, despite him saying otherwise on national radio. Many people could comment on his personal habits also, which I wont elaborate on. Im not out to knock him, Im simply saying things arnt always so clear cut...Im sure he got great publicity out of his latest premonition.

jimm55

Joe no longer charges for healing. I spoke to somebody who had a healing with him yesterday, and he told her he did not charge. She asked him would he accept a small donation. He said he would.