Knock Apparition

pookie82

Hey guys,

Before I start I'd just like to say that although I was raised as a Catholic with averagely religious parents, I am now on the religious fence but leaning most definitely towards there probably not being anything out there/up there etc, and I have long since turned away from anything to do with the Catholic church.

This whole furore this week over the expected appartion of the Virgin Mary predicted for 3pm today in Knock got me thinking this week, and after what I heard from some (who I would have deemed very reliable) eye witnesses a few hours ago, someone made some freaky sh*t happen there today.

Apparently there was a "sun dance" of some sort, i.e. the sun started to loop around in the sky and emenate light auras, spinning almost towards the earth at times and at others receeding and emitting a blinding light. Thousands of people present allegedly witnessed this simultaneously, all reporting pretty much the same thing, which happened on two seperate occasions and went on for minutes at a time (so not a blink-of-an-eye "vision" or anything).

The people who told me they had seen this were really freaked out today and are regularly hugely cynical. I suppose there's an element of "if you were there in the first place some part of you wanted to see something" but to be honest, I would never have expected to hear these people get genuinely petrified by what they saw.

Now the only thing that I can come up with is some kind of mass hypnosis which induced a common hallucination. I have no idea of the mechanics of such a feat but I'm sure it can be done. The other solution is obviously some sort of technical equipment which can magically blind people with a light, make them think they see the sun doing freaky things and can leave them all pretty terrified without copping on to what's really going on. The last solution of course is one in which something paranormal actually happened, and although I'm quite a fan of reading about all things paranormal, I would be a skeptic by nature, particlularly when it comes to religion.

I'll be interested to see if there were any camera crews there or if there's any media follow up on this. It would strike me as highly dubious that this phenomenon was predicted (well, the blessed virgin didn't show up herself it seems, but there was much talk by this clairvoyant dude that she would send a sign) but not one person showed up with a camera.

I guess what I'm asking is if anyone has any idea on how something like this might be fabricated (if it was, for those of you who might believe it was genuinely a religious sign). Is there any evidence in the past of mass hallucinations or hypnosis in this context? How on earth did the guy do it????

Any thoughts? Thanks for reading!!

penguin1984

I have to say, I'm a bit sceptical about these things myself, but a friend of mine wanted to go down after hearing about the prediction. So I went down, there was thousands of people there, and Mary was supposed to be appearing in the chapel. We were in the crowd outside the glass wall of the chapel eagerly awaiting 3pm. 3pm came, and went I was joking about Her punctuality....the sky was cloudy. At about ten past three, the clouds broke and the sun beamed down. The next thing the crowd erupted with clapping and cheers. I looked up and the sun turned a blue colour, it was a blue I have never seen before. It was moving up and down, around in circles, there was a gold ring around the outside and it looked to be spinning. People described it as if the sun was dancing. The colours that followed were just un-natural. Pink, that lit up the surrounding clouds, oranges, yellows, blues. Colours I can honestly say I've never seen before. I took some pictures of them, but none came out, I was really disappointed because they are all just white. There was a camera crew there so I would be really interested to know if they had any success. Everyone saw the same colours at the same time. People were ringing home asking friends and relatives to go out and tell them what the sun looked liked from their part of the country, only to be told there was nothing strange or different about it. This amazing display of colours lasted about 15 minutes. After which, thick clouds covered the sky. People discussed what they had seen. I spoke to many men who all said they couldn't believe what they had seen. They had come believing it all to be false and they were proven wrong. I was the same. I genuinly cannot explain what we saw but it was amazing.

There is no way that it could have been a projector or any form of technical equipment as the different amounts of heat you felt at different points is not something you could generate without visible aids.

There will always be people of the opinion that it wasn't anything special, but to me it was, and I am delighted I travelled down to see what I saw. I'm not a religious person but it was a very spiritual experience.

Arion24

In my opinion and my belief, Knock is one of the few genuine apparitions of Our Lady.
Knock, Lourdes and Fatima are the big 3 main genuine ones.
E.g. - The Magigoria apparition is fake or well it wasn't a 'holy' intervention.

Darlughda

One of the great things we have nowaday that we hadn't before is a great accessiblity to recording of events.

I have no doubt that such a well publicised and predicted event attract a great many, most of whom are equipped with camera phones and videos.

pics or GTFO:D

Arion24

And pictures can be argued as being altered, so in some cases no proof is ever enough.

The entire population of Fatima that went out that evening to see if the childrens stories were true, were witness to what happened when the sun appeared to come hurdling from the sky towards them and they all recounted that tale.

A sudden case of mass hysteria was argued, but how exactly can an entire town suddenly for a brief moment experience mass hysteria and all recount the exact same story.

Perhaps someone else has argued that the people of Fatima were linked to a bumblebee controlling hive mind:p

pistonsvox

penguin1984 wrote: »

I have to say, I'm a bit sceptical about these things myself, but a friend of mine wanted to go down after hearing about the prediction. So I went down, there was thousands of people there, and Mary was supposed to be appearing in the chapel. We were in the crowd outside the glass wall of the chapel eagerly awaiting 3pm. 3pm came, and went I was joking about Her punctuality....the sky was cloudy. At about ten past three, the clouds broke and the sun beamed down. The next thing the crowd erupted with clapping and cheers. I looked up and the sun turned a blue colour, it was a blue I have never seen before. It was moving up and down, around in circles, there was a gold ring around the outside and it looked to be spinning. People described it as if the sun was dancing. The colours that followed were just un-natural. Pink, that lit up the surrounding clouds, oranges, yellows, blues. Colours I can honestly say I've never seen before. I took some pictures of them, but none came out, I was really disappointed because they are all just white. There was a camera crew there so I would be really interested to know if they had any success. Everyone saw the same colours at the same time. People were ringing home asking friends and relatives to go out and tell them what the sun looked liked from their part of the country, only to be told there was nothing strange or different about it. This amazing display of colours lasted about 15 minutes. After which, thick clouds covered the sky. People discussed what they had seen. I spoke to many men who all said they couldn't believe what they had seen. They had come believing it all to be false and they were proven wrong. I was the same. I genuinly cannot explain what we saw but it was amazing.

There is no way that it could have been a projector or any form of technical equipment as the different amounts of heat you felt at different points is not something you could generate without visible aids.

There will always be people of the opinion that it wasn't anything special, but to me it was, and I am delighted I travelled down to see what I saw. I'm not a religious person but it was a very spiritual experience.

You werent looking into the sun all that time were you? If you look into the sun long enough it seems like its spinning, and then youll have weird colours goin round ur eyes for a while

Thornography

Hermmm. Cant find anything online about anything that happened today (If anything DID happen) other then on boards.

And its a whole 11hrs 10mins later.

JKM

There's an article in todays Irish Times. 5000 people there apparently. A load of people looking at the sun for too long in my opinion.

jimm55

when the people came out of the church the sun was not to be see at all, as it was in behind a cloud. As soon as the sun appeared, it turned blue and began to spinn .etc,etc. The argument that we were to long looking at the sun does not apply . A yelow light that came from the sun at the end turned everything yellow for a few minutes, The clouds were yellow just between the sun and ground dirrecly under it , not in the sky anywhere else in he sky. I kept checking the other areas of the sky to be suer that it was not on my eye it was, as I could scarcely believe what I was seeing.

pookie82

To be fair the whole "looking at the sun for too long" excuse was the first on the tip of my tongue but the people I spoke to said it happened as soon as the sun came out of the clouds, not after half an hour of staring at it.

Slow Motion

So where are the pics, videos, links to pics or videos?

penguin1984

No wasn't looking directly at the sun!! Need my eyesight!

moshmonkey666

i looked directly at the sun and it didnt hurt my eyes at all, but i seen it all, i thought i was going insane at the time or my eyes were playing tricks on me, but then when people was discribing loudly what i was seeing at the same time then i just couldn't believe it. but it was amazing, i have never seen anything like that, to be completely honest i wasn't expecting anything at all, and was starting to make jokes about the whole thing.

i don't care if anyone believe's me but i know what i saw and everyone else saw.

Slow Motion

I don't know one way or another but maybe google ads have something to say on the matter knock.JPG

gdael

Darlughda wrote: »

One of the great things we have nowaday that we hadn't before is a great accessiblity to recording of events.

I have no doubt that such a well publicised and predicted event attract a great many, most of whom are equipped with camera phones and videos.

pics or GTFO:D

I agree. For an event that was predicted you should have hundreds of cameras there. If you ever look at large crowds at any event there are hundreds filming it. Especially if it is rare and noone has ever filmed it before.

There should be loads of videos of this. It would make the news world wide. Tsunami style. But i bet there arent.

blackbetty69

Maybe Derren Brown had something to do with it..

jimm55

moshmonkey666 wrote: »

i looked directly at the sun and it didnt hurt my eyes at all, but i seen it all, i thought i was going insane at the time or my eyes were playing tricks on me, but then when people was discribing loudly what i was seeing at the same time then i just couldn't believe it. but it was amazing, i have never seen anything like that, to be completely honest i wasn't expecting anything at all, and was starting to make jokes about the whole thing.

i don't care if anyone believe's me but i know what i saw and everyone else saw.

I fell exactly the same as you. I know I saw something very special. I do have some video footage, but I was getting pushed about so much , and I had the camera on auto. It is not good enough to on utube or anywhere like that. sorry.

Thornography

sooooooooooooooooooooooo to sum up, there are no pictures? vids? sane accounts? nothing? only an increase in specsavers revenues ?

Arion24

Thornography wrote: »

sane accounts?

You've just been told there was.

Thornography

I wouldn't put a boards post down to a sane account.

Arion24

The people that were actually there. The people of Knock/Fatima weren't proven to be insane.

Thornography

But with no pictures, footage, or physical evidence, theres no way of proving its a sane account.

I mean, Iv seen Jesus, we go to the pub. He flashes yellow several times and then blew up.

I have no proof the above statement is true. Neither do the `people` of knock.

I have no problem eating my words if a valid source proves what they say.

Arion24

Thornography wrote: »

But with no pictures, footage, or physical evidence, theres no way of proving its a sane account.

First of all...that's faith. Second of all, there's no way of disproving either by that logic. A lot has been accepted about past events without any pictures or recordings taken from that time.
Going by the need for some people to see everything first hand to believe it could have even possibly existed you could argue:
How do we know James Conneally was executed at all without seeing a photograph or a video of the shooting?

pookie82

Arion24 wrote: »

First of all...that's faith. Second of all, there's no way of disproving either by that logic. A lot has been accepted about past events without any pictures or recordings taken from that time.
Going by the need for some people to see everything first hand to believe it could have even possibly existed you could argue:
How do we know James Conneally was executed at all without seeing a photograph or a video of the shooting?

Without necessarily agreeing with Thornography's tone, or trying to get at you, you've missed a crucial point. The burden of proof is always with the person saying that they saw/believe/heard something paranormal or religious. Not with the person looking for evidence and fact. You don't need to disprove that god exists - by logic, that's a given - , but if you want to convince a rational and logical person that he does, you will have to prove it.

I didn't mean this to turn into a smart ar*ed debate on whether or not something paranormal happened. I made it quite clear that I didn't think it was very likely. What i did ask is what people thought might have been behind it - hallucinations, mass hypnosis, some kind of elaborate lighting prank..... No one has really come up with anything. I can't quite figure out what makes thousands of people convinced that they saw the same thing.

I agree that if, in this day and age, with the notice of the prediction itself and the propensity for people to have video cameras on them at all times (on their phone), there is no video evidence whatsoever, then someone has some explaining to do. I simply would not buy the whole "god didn't want those who weren't there to see and believe it" line. Surely that would be the ultimate aim for any power wielding and allegedly pissed off deity. It's all to convenient that no one caught it on camera at ALL.

Which again begs the question - how do you get thousands of people to swear they all saw the same thing??

GhostInTheRuins

Quick search on youtube got me this.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1uuvFHxD0wA

It's not ever even worth looking at to be honest, it's just the camera pointed directly at the sun with kids screaming in the background :rolleyes:

Thornography

pookie82 wrote: »

I didn't mean this to turn into a smart ar*ed debate on whether or not something paranormal happened.

Your right, apologies for the OT opinion. but as you mentioned my logic kicked in and tells me I smell a rat, you obviously do to if your asking for opinions on hallucinations e.t.c. I didn't mean to label people as crazy, what I ment was, I wanted an explanation from someone who has not fallen for what ever did happen there (assuming something happened to make people believe this, which is of my opinion and the OP's opinion if I am correct) so until I get proof of otherwise, My opinion will not change.

RLJ

I had meant to go out of curiosity as i have ever been to a place where such things happen or are alleged to happen when they did happen. I was at Melleray in county Waterford once but no when people had visions.

The first thing I thought of in my plans to go was a camera?

When is the next one lol

blue42

to the believer no proof is necessary....to the sceptic no proof will ever be enough!

Dean820

The prediction was that she would appear. She didn't.

mattfender

im guessin you just had to be there to believe it

pookie82

Dean820 wrote: »

The prediction was that she would appear. She didn't.

Turns out there was a lady on the radio yesterday (probably mid west or some local station) who claimed she saw the blessed virgin. I knew there'd be at least one who decided to take it the whole hog and claim she saw the expexted appartition.