October 2nd 2009 - Demoracy in Ireland R.I.P.

Dublin1600

Ireland was forced to vote on the EXACT same treaty until a YES vote was returned, the treaty we voted on was the same treaty word for word. Demoracy in Ireland R.I.P.

namloc1980

I welcome our new European overlords and of course when the Lizard People take over it'll be great.

Gary ITR

Dublin1600 wrote: »

Ireland was forced to vote on the EXACT same treaty until a YES vote was returned, the treaty we voted on was the same treaty word for word. Demoracy in Ireland R.I.P.

Ah would you ever get a hold of yourself. That wagon Mary Lou is on RTE now bitching the same way

Fuhrer

Dublin1600 wrote: »

Ireland was forced to vote on the EXACT same treaty until a YES vote was returned, the treaty we voted on was the same treaty word for word. Demoracy in Ireland R.I.P.

I dont seem to recall being forced to vote on either treaty.

My name is URL

Well I voted No both times and don't feel that our democracy is in danger

The fact that people had a choice and chance to change their minds is hardly undemocratic, even if the current climate played a massive part in making them change their minds second time round

The majority of Ireland voted for the Treaty, ergo democracy is dead. Quite the conclusion you have reached.

Fuhrer

Deleted User wrote: »

The majority of Ireland voted for the Treaty, ergo democracy is dead. Quite the conclusion you have reached.

EU HUMAN-TANK HYBRID ARMIES!


And so on.


Populism

triple-M

well i guess were now the laughing stock of europe because weve proven we've no backbone,for shame Ireland

cornbb

Who forced you to vote? Were you held at gunpoint?

It looks like 20% of the electorate changed their minds. No one forced them to change their minds. They had 18 months to inform themselves, and they obviously realised that actually this treaty isn't the end of the world. I imagine they are pretty pleased that they got a second chance. Maybe you needed more than 18 months :rolleyes:

Max Power1

democracy is not dead

however the lies and scaremongering by the yes side, and the ridiculous BS spouted by Coir (esp the 1.84E claim) co-erced the electorate to change their minds

Lets see when these jobs and the economic recovery we were promised will materialize.

Kalashnikov_Kid

Were people held at gunpoint until they voted yes? Did I miss something?

Fuhrer

triple-M wrote: »

well i guess were now the laughing stock of europe because weve proven we've no backbone,for shame Ireland

You are right, Europe are sitting around in their living room laughing at us for having the notion that we could reconsider an issue rather then choose one side and blindly stumble on.


The Gails of laughter must be quite deafening.

DeepBlue

What is this demoracy of which you speak?

Jeez, if you're so concerned about it why don't you learn how to spell it properly.

Somnus

Whether the treaty was changed or not it was a second chance for people to take a look at it.

I mean the first time around I voted no because I didn't know anything about it. This time I read the referendum commission thing and realised its actually no big deal so I voted yes. I mean the No side were clearly twisting the truth, for example saying our percentage vote drops to 0.8% but neglecting to mention the whole other part where every country gets a single vote and things have to be passed by both votes.

Hitman Actual

Dublin1600 wrote: »

Ireland was forced to vote on the EXACT same treaty until a YES vote was returned, the treaty we voted on was the same treaty word for word. Demoracy in Ireland R.I.P.

The Irish Courts disagree with you: "This is democracy working at its most fluid". Are you qualified to disagree with them?

Nonoperational

Ridiculous post.

ei.sdraob

OP seriously now come on, get a grip of yourself

this is exactly why the NO side lost it seems

downright stupidity and craziness of certain elements of the campaign, who are still fearmongering

Sierra Oscar

Hyperbole!

OldJay

Dublin1600 wrote: »

Ireland was forced to vote on the EXACT same treaty until a YES vote was returned, the treaty we voted on was the same treaty word for word. Demoracy in Ireland R.I.P.

Ireland voted on the treaty misinformed of its tenets re. abortion, euthanasia, military, conscription, commissionner veto gone, EU taxation policies, employment rights etc
It has since in the meantime, had these issues reiteratred and explained and with this clarification therefore voted accordingly with an increased turnout on the previous p*ssy turnout.

That's democracy.

evercloserunion

The thread starter is going to be quite embarassed next time we have an election or referendum.

eightyfish

namloc1980 wrote: »

and of course when the Lizard People take over it'll be great.

You mean the girl from the Libertas posters?

TelePaul

I voted 'Yes' last time. I wasn't too pleased when the 'No' vote carried but I left it at that. It's time to let go.

ei.sdraob

eightyfish wrote: »

You mean the girl from the Libertas posters?

Vote NO or this girl gets it

Rebelheart

Dublin1600 wrote: »

Ireland was forced to vote on the EXACT same treaty until a YES vote was returned, the treaty we voted on was the same treaty word for word. Demoracy in Ireland R.I.P.

Democracy, while currently fashionable, is overrated. Democracy brought us Patrick Bartholomew Ahern, lest anybody forgets, a man who shaped policies specifically in order to win democratic contests/elections.

Today, this state needs its "prince" to make tough decisions and stand up to the vested interests which are impeding our development as a sustainable society.

triple-M

I for one will be welcoming our new turkish overlords ,while im on a jet flying out of this place

Skobe

I like the margin of victory. This will stick it to Mary Lou and the other cream crackers.

ei.sdraob

Rebelheart wrote: »

Today, this state needs its "prince" to make tough decisions and stand up to the vested interests which are impeding our development as a sustainable society.

Hail Ganley! Mein Führer!!!

:rolleyes:

ei.sdraob

triple-M wrote: »

I for one will be welcoming our new turkish overlords ,while im on a jet flying out of this place

make sure the door doesn't hit you on the way out

TelePaul

triple-M wrote: »

I for one will be welcoming our new turkish overlords ,while im on a jet flying out of this place

Can we please dispense with all these "I'm getting the next plane out of this facist hell-hole" proclamations? The likelihood is that nobody's going anywhere. And if you really are hell-bent on leaving, nobody is going to miss you or try to stop you.

Max Power1

triple-M wrote: »

I for one will be welcoming our new turkish overlords ,while im on a jet flying out of this place

Out you go then

anonymous_joe

triple-M wrote: »

I for one will be welcoming our new turkish overlords ,while im on a jet flying out of this place

Racist and uninformed. Quel surprise.

OldJay

triple-M wrote: »

I for one will be welcoming our new turkish overlords ,while im on a jet flying out of this place

Travel broadens the mind so enjoy your enlightenment if it ever happens.

Fuhrer

ei.sdraob wrote: »

Hail Ganley! Mein Führer!!!

:rolleyes:

That Ganley scares even me

namloc1980

triple-M wrote: »

I for one will be welcoming our new turkish overlords ,while im on a jet flying out of this place

Mmmmm are Turkey in the EU?? eh no.
Could Turkey join under the current Nice Treaty?? eh yes.

Goodbye.

Dinner

I'll bet anyone a million euro and one of my legs that nothing bad happens as a result.

Sierra Oscar

triple-M wrote: »

I for one will be welcoming our new turkish overlords ,while im on a jet flying out of this place

Ah, I see you fell for the No side last minute lies - they did the same with the conscription issue last year . . . leave it to the last few days and then circulate a totally baseless rumour.

Thank goodness the Yes side didnt let them go unchecked this time round.:)

youtheman

I love these second referenda. We let the fruitcakes win the first one, they get their day in the sun and then we pull the rug out from under them the second time round (bit like Kerry v Cork in the All Ireland).

orourkeda

Deleted User wrote: »

The majority of Ireland voted for the Treaty, ergo democracy is dead. Quite the conclusion you have reached.

Which begs the obvious question why wasnt the no vote respected in the same way?

Maybe we should go best of three. This is all we're short of doing

orourkeda

youtheman wrote: »

I love these second referenda. We let the fruitcakes win the first one, they get their day in the sun and then we pull the rug out from under them the second time round (bit like Kerry v Cork in the All Ireland).

This is exactly the attitude which forced the second referendum on us.

The attitude that gets people to overturn a vote that doesnt suit Fianna Fail run governments

orourkeda

Sierra Oscar wrote: »

Ah, I see you fell for the No side last minute lies - they did the same with the conscription issue last year . . . leave it to the last few days and then circulate a totally baseless rumour.

Thank goodness the Yes side didnt let them go unchecked this time round.:)

The yes side would never do such a thing.

We'll be back to full employment anytime soon now that the sheep have voted yes.

johnny_ultimate

I think the whole 'death of democracy' and 'death of the Irish Republic' claims were the most frustrating of the campaign, and both sides had some frustrating arguments. The 'no' vote last time was a crystal clear case study in democracy at work. And rather than force the treaty through government like they did in other countries, some of the controversial issues last time were addressed and we got the reassurances people wanted. And now the public has (supposedly) decided they are happy with that, and there has been a (very) significant change in public opinion.

I think both Lisbon Treaties have been fascinating examples of democracy in action. There has been a lot of lies, BS and scaremongering over the last two years from both sides, but ultimately it is the general public who have decided the final answer. If that isn't democracy, I don't know what people expect. Ireland is still here, and our voice has been heard.

Steviemak

Max Power1 wrote: »

Lets see when these jobs and the economic recovery we were promised will materialize.

Now that the No's have lost i'm looking forward to abortion, euthanasia, tanks on O'Connell st, corporate tax at 50%, no more elections in ireland ever, being conscripted, the death penalty being re-introduced, public schools and hospitals being shut and all while working for 1.84 euro an hour but I'm not looking forward to Brian Cowen keeping his job:D

panda100

Op has a fair point,surely the most democratic thing is to have a third referendum since it is only a 1-1 draw at the moment?

Ritchi

orourkeda wrote: »

Which begs the obvious question why wasnt the no vote respected in the same way?

Maybe we should go best of three. This is all we're short of doing

As far as I can see, it was respected, and assurances got to reflect the reasons people gave for voting no the last time. Without us voting no the first time we would not have these assurances(whether they were actually needed, or how legally binding they are, remains to be seen).
This just shows that the assurances were enough to change peoples mind this time around.

Steviemak

orourkeda wrote: »

Maybe we should go best of three.

Let the people vote in an anti EU government and you can have your referendum. That's democracy.

marbar

i'm happy as a pig in ****e that common sense has prevailed

down with the crazies

Sierra Oscar

panda100 wrote: »

Op has a fair point,surely the most democratic thing is to have a third referendum since it is only a 1-1 draw at the moment?

Where is the need? The Irish voted no first time around, we secured key concessions and the yes vote highlights that the Irish people are happy with these concessions.

AtomicHorror

Dublin1600 wrote: »

Ireland was forced to vote on the EXACT same treaty until a YES vote was returned, the treaty we voted on was the same treaty word for word. Demoracy in Ireland R.I.P.

So you'll be out protesting at the death of democracy next time abortion comes up? No means no, right?

FYI real democracies don't take a vote every time the Taoiseach needs to go toileh'. They vote for people to make decisions for them, for the same reason I don't do plumbing or write my own legal documents.

turgon

panda100 wrote: »

Op has a fair point,surely the most democratic thing is to have a third referendum since it is only a 1-1 draw at the moment?

Its not actually. If you add Lisbon 1 and Lisbon 2 together you still get Yes.

prinz

panda100 wrote: »

Op has a fair point,surely the most democratic thing is to have a third referendum since it is only a 1-1 draw at the moment?

.......how original....would swear I heard Joe Higgins say that earlier. SF Crowe tried the same. The first time it gets a wry chuckle. The third time it doesn't.

KevinH

Isn't it funny that the communists/socialists are making this argument.

At least they are consistent.

If the communist party was ever elected it would suspend all future elections because allowing people the chance to change their mind is "undemocratic".