Tim Tebow

musky

This guy is murdering them at the college level.

Will he transfer it to the pros? Will he be drafted high?

I see him as cleveland's salvation to be honest, brady being benched that early in the season will destroy him as a player.

any ideas anyone?

Tristram

look at the old tebow thread

D3PO

Tewbow in my opinion wont make a good NFL quarterback. Its one thing running a spread offense in college its quite another playing under centre in the NFL.

As for the browns they spend a firt rounder on quinn they aint going to draft another QB fact.

Tewbow will go first round but he wont be the first QB taken. In my mind he will go to jacksonville more to do with getting people through the turnstyles than his qb attributes.

Bradford, McCoy & Clausen are all better suited to the NFL imo

Max Power1

cant see tebow being taken in the first round (unless the raiders take him:rolleyes:). From the highlights ive seen, he's a good college qb but its not an NFL style offense that he runs.

D3PO

Max Power1 wrote: »

cant see tebow being taken in the first round (unless the raiders take him:rolleyes:). From the highlights ive seen, he's a good college qb but its not an NFL style offense that he runs.

the only reason i think he will possibly go in the first round is that jacksonville really need a franchise face to turning around thier ailing fanbase. Tewbow is a florida ledgend and would draw in the crowds that was way down in jacksonville.

Is that the right reason to draft somebody ? Not on your nelly but Its not inconcievable.

If they decide to draft properly however tebow wont go in the first round.

Max Power1

D3PO wrote: »

the only reason i think he will possibly go in the first round is that jacksonville really need a franchise face to turning around thier ailing fanbase. Tewbow is a florida ledgend and would draw in the crowds that was way down in jacksonville.

Is that the right reason to draft somebody ? Not on your nelly but Its not inconcievable.

If they decide to draft properly however tebow wont go in the first round.

But there is easily 3-4 qbs that are better suited to NFL football coming out next year, McCoy being the main one. Tebow will bomb the same way Vince Young did at tennessee

If he does get drafted high, you can quote me on this at the end of next year or the year after :P

eagle eye

Max Power1 wrote: »

But there is easily 3-4 qbs that are better suited to NFL football coming out next year, McCoy being the main one. Tebow will bomb the same way Vince Young did at tennessee

If he does get drafted high, you can quote me on this at the end of next year or the year after :P

I personally believe that Tebow will be a star in the NFL. The guy is just a winner and he is not afraid to put in the hard work necessary to make the transition. I really believe that he can bring a hugely successful spread offence to the NFL anyways. I've alway felt that Miami were after him and I still think they will get him no matter what it takes.

On McCoy, I really think he is grossly overrated. Bradford is a much better prospect than McCoy imo. I hope Clausen stays at Notre Dame for another year but he certainly is a guy that should make it in the NFL. Then again Brady Quinn looked a certainty too but he has been a big letdown so far.

D3PO

Max Power1 wrote: »

But there is are 3 or 4 qbs better suited to the nfl

i dont disagree with you. I wouldnt select him on the first day not to mind the first day, but its not like NFL teams dont make stupid drafts every year now is it ?

D3PO

eagle eye wrote: »

I On McCoy, I really think he is grossly overrated. Bradford is a much better prospect than McCoy imo. .

For me McCoy has better accuracy, better arm strenght and when taking snaps under centre looks the more comfortable of the two.

that said both will do a good job in the NFL me thinks. Tebow does have some things going for him he had good arm strenght and he seems to have excellent leadership skills, but i still think hes probably a 4th rounder for me.

tallaghtoutlaws

Hasn't this debate been done to death in 2 other threads :D:D

davyjose

Lane Kiffin had a lot of nice things to say about him in the summer. He claims the same things were said about tebow in highschool - that he'd never make it as a QB in College Football..... :pac:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pyPTapB0FRs

eagle eye

^^^^That is pretty much the way I look at Tebow. The intangibles are just so important and he has them. As I said the guy is a born winner, everybody around him thinks he is amazing, he has such great leadership skills. Everybody plays their best when they are around him. You just can't make somebody like that and along with his ability its why I believe that he is certain to be a star in the NFL.
He reminds me in ways of a young Tiger Woods. Everybody said he would not last because he hit the ball too hard and you lose control over time with that, but he went and destroyed all around him and then changed his swing and won four majors in a row, and then goes off and changes his swing again. The belief in his own ability, clutch play and work ethic is what made Tiger what he is today, still the top man after 12 or 13 years in the pro golf game. I know its very high praise to compare a young college QB to him but I really think they have that same will, belief and air about them.

Trampas

Max Power1 wrote: »

But there is easily 3-4 qbs that are better suited to NFL football coming out next year, McCoy being the main one. Tebow will bomb the same way Vince Young did at tennessee

If he does get drafted high, you can quote me on this at the end of next year or the year after :P

And we wont get complaints about diging up old threads?

maharg92

personally im a huge tim tebow fan so i might be slightly biased in this but i do honestly think he will make it in the pros he probably wont be drafted to high but i still think he'll make it big maybe not tom brady peyton manning big but more like mcnabb without the injuries

Hynzie

Tebow always reminds me of Tommie Frazier the great Nebraska Cornhuskers QB and the leader of probably the greatest college football team of all time the 1995 Huskers.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-oO18ZbCLbE

Both are/were leaders and big game performers. Frazier was MVP in 3 straight National Championship games despite losing in the 1994 Orange Bowl to Florida State.

Both wore number 15 and are from Florida.

Both had the ability to run and pass and most importantly for this conversation the same questions were being asked about Frazier's pro prospects as are now being asked about Tebow. He too was questioned about his accuracy and overall throwing ability and like Tebow there was talk of him changing position. Also there were doubts about him transferring well from Nebraska's option attack the pros similar to how the questions about Tebow going from Florida's spread to the NFL.

Frazier performed well in a pro style offence at the senior bowl but he was never drafted, mainly because of a blood cloth recurring in his left leg which had caused him to miss alot of his junior year. he did make a comeback later that year and help the Huskers to the 1994 Championship. But even without the blood cloth there were many who doubted Frazier. Im very interested in what happens to Tebow, if he does well he could almost win one for Frazier aswell!!

I think the key is where Tebow ends up. If he goes to a bad team and is asked to come in straight away and be the Saviour I think he fails. His intangibles are off the charts but hes not polished as a passer. If he is given time to learn for a couple of years he could be great as eagle eye said you know hes gona work his tail off to get better.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QESfiq4jpDY

^ Video about Frazier from the 1996 draft coverage. The start of the video has an interesting debate between Mel Kiper and Joe Thiesmann about Nebraska RB Lawrence Phillips and whether he should have been drafted so high despite his off the field issues. I think its fair to say Mel was right on this one!!

Mike912

Hands up for wanting Tebow to be YOUR quarterback in the pro's?

He was home schooled, recruited to play for a dominant high school team, then was treated as the second coming before electing to play for the Gators. He has been "The Man" at Florida. He has never been met with adversity.

The NFL doesn't care about "potential", the NFL is a business that cares about what you can do for me...now.

Tebow throws "low", and has talents that don't carry over to alternative positions.

He should make his money now before 350lb linemen in the NFL, who run sub-5 sec 40's, squash him in the NFL.

elvis jones

Watching Tebow this season and last season he is missing the 2 WR who moved on.

They are running the ball a lot more and he is as good as most RB at college level.

I can see them in the running come next Jan and he is one of the main reasons for that.

But just can't see him at QB in the NFL without some serious WR to work with.

Tristram

http://www.nytimes.com/2010/01/01/sports/ncaafootball/01sugar.html?ref=football

elvis jones

I'm finished work at 12.30 tonight and its straight home for the Gators game !

Dodge

Read an interesting article last week about the possibility of the UFL trying to recruit Tebow for their Orlando franchise. The talk was that they'd offer him above what he could expect in the NFL, as the UFL thought he was the type of "star" they needed to truly kick off


Currently watching him in the Sugar bowl, and he still has those same failings...

themont85

Tebow cam , facepalm central.

Eire-Dearg

I haven't got into college football yet, but I've been reading up on this guy. About 70% think this lad will do the business in the NFL.

It's just a matter of waiting around to see if he can be a hit.

tallaghtoutlaws

Eire-Dearg wrote: »

About 70% think this lad will do the business in the NFL.

70%? Where did you get this figure from? From what I have seen there is mixed opinion, but so much opinion you couldn't put a percentage on it.

Just to add for me I only pay attention to those in the media who present football as their evidence as in they break down Tebow's abilities and compare them to the Pro systems and playbooks. I hate analyst that don't back up their opinions as to why Tebow will be good in the NFL other than this "Oh well he was awesome in college" type crap. So was Ryan Leaf and look what happened him.

davyjose

tallaghtoutlaws wrote: »

70%? Where did you get this figure from? From what I have seen there is mixed opinion, but so much opinion you couldn't put a percentage on it.

Just to add for me I only pay attention to those in the media who present football as their evidence as in they break down Tebow's abilities and compare them to the Pro systems and playbooks. I hate analyst that don't back up their opinions as to why Tebow will be good in the NFL other than this "Oh well he was awesome in college" type crap. So was Ryan Leaf and look what happened him.

This drives me mad. It's as if his ability in College football means nothing. How can it mean nothing? 533 all-purpose yards in the Sugar bowl, on top of everything else, means the guy has an inordinate amount of ability. I don't get why some people are so adamant that ability won't translate to the NFL - it's the same bloody sport.

If you put Peyton Mannng on the Saints tomorrow, he'd struggle initially. If you put Tom Brady into the Colts tomorrow, he'd struggle for a while too. Tebow won't walk into a team and win straight away. But build an offense around him, and there is no doubt in my mind, the guy will win. When you have the multiple threats the guy brings, you have a dangerous player, in any league.

tallaghtoutlaws

davyjose wrote: »

This drives me mad. It's as if his ability in College football means nothing. How can it mean nothing? 533 all-purpose yards in the Sugar bowl, on top of everything else, means the guy has an inordinate amount of ability. I don't get why some people are so adamant that ability won't translate to the NFL - it's the same bloody sport.

If you put Peyton Mannng on the Saints tomorrow, he'd struggle initially. If you put Tom Brady into the Colts tomorrow, he'd struggle for a while too. Tebow won't walk into a team and win straight away. But build an offense around him, and there is no doubt in my mind, the guy will win. When you have the multiple threats the guy brings, you have a dangerous player, in any league.

Firstly who said his abilities mean nothing?

And Really? Look how many players destroyed in College football and failed miserably in the NFL its hit or miss. College football is not the same level as the NFL. College football has a wide variety of levels of ability. Not all of it translates to the NFL. Tebow could do well and could crash and burn. But right now his arm is not NFL quality.

Look simple fact for him to succeed in the NFL he needs a lot of work with a QB coach to mould him. He has the abilities but it is finding the right team that will be that patient. His main threat is his legs and that is a fact dude. And sadly unless he finds a team willing to change their whole system to allow him to move you have taken away a good chunk of his abilities.

There are so many factors that make college football players look awesome and a lot of it is the level of the competition and opponents. Where as the NFL you are quite literally playing the best of the best. Tebow has a lot of hard work ahead of him as does every draftee. We can all agree that after Ryan Leaf and others its not a straight forward transition.

Chucky the tree

davyjose wrote: »

This drives me mad. It's as if his ability in College football means nothing. How can it mean nothing? 533 all-purpose yards in the Sugar bowl, on top of everything else, means the guy has an inordinate amount of ability. I don't get why some people are so adamant that ability won't translate to the NFL - it's the same bloody sport.

If you put Peyton Mannng on the Saints tomorrow, he'd struggle initially. If you put Tom Brady into the Colts tomorrow, he'd struggle for a while too. Tebow won't walk into a team and win straight away. But build an offense around him, and there is no doubt in my mind, the guy will win. When you have the multiple threats the guy brings, you have a dangerous player, in any league.

Extremely short sighted way of looking it it. I mean according to you some lad who plays in the sunday league and scores goal for fun should be able to make it in then premier league because "its the same bloody sport" after all. I'm pretty sure manning or brady certainly wouldn't struggle on either of those teams, not sure why you think they would. .

I don't know if tebow will be a "bust", that will depend where he is drafted but I don't think he'll ever be an elite nfl QB.

tallaghtoutlaws

davyjose wrote: »

533 all-purpose yards in the Sugar bowl, on top of everything else.

Using the Sugar bowl as your example is ridiculous. The Bearcats offered no challenge and practically every drive moved for Florida. Cinci were lost without Kelly and non existent last night. It was a very poor showing and a one sided affair. Sadly for Tebow as good as he played no one will care about last nights game.

davyjose

Chucky the tree wrote: »

Extremely short sighted way of looking it it. I mean according to you some lad who plays in the sunday league and scores goal for fun should be able to make it in then premier league because "its the same bloody sport" after all. I'm pretty sure manning or brady certainly wouldn't struggle on either of those teams, not sure why you think they would. .

I don't know if tebow will be a "bust", that will depend where he is drafted but I don't think he'll ever be an elite nfl QB.

You're comparing College Football with playing sunday league? because I certainly didn't. you've a cheek to say I'm being short-sighted if you're going to make those assumptions.
College football is played to a very high standard. Tom Brady had a much easier life in the NFL by all accounts.

I'll tell you one thing I know. The Colts offense is moulded in the shape of Manning. Every play is designed to suit Manning's game. If brady walked in it would take time to adjust. These guys aren't making the same plays, or playing the exact same systems. The point is: you stick Tebow in frsh, yeah he's going to struggle. you give him time with an offense, he makes it work.

davyjose

tallaghtoutlaws wrote: »

Using the Sugar bowl as your example is ridiculous. The Bearcats offered no challenge and practically every drive moved for Florida. Cinci were lost without Kelly and non existent last night. It was a very poor showing and a one sided affair. Sadly for Tebow as good as he played no one will care about last nights game.

You can only play what's in front of you. Tebow's arm might not be his best attribute, but it's not the dud people in the media make it out to be. It has been very, very effective in the past. He might not have the arm someone like cutler has, but who cares.

Also if we're talking ridiculous, lets look at your Ryan Leaf example. In what universe are they comparable? Leaf had none of the qualities Tebow has, and vice versa.

Chucky the tree

davyjose wrote: »

You're comparing College Football with playing sunday league? because I certainly didn't. you've a cheek to say I'm being short-sighted if you're going to make those assumptions.
College football is played to a very high standard. Tom Brady had a much easier life in the NFL by all accounts.

I'll tell you one thing I know. The Colts offense is moulded in the shape of Manning. Every play is designed to suit Manning's game. If brady walked in it would take time to adjust. These guys aren't making the same plays, or playing the exact same systems. The point is: you stick Tebow in frsh, yeah he's going to struggle. you give him time with an offense, he makes it work.

How many college players go pro? Have many of the players on the Bearcats defense will even be on an nfl roster in 5 years? The step up from college to nfl is massive. Tebow main strength is his running ability. I can't wait to see how he fairs trying to barrell over LBers in the nfl, he'll be broken in two.


If Manning went to the saints they'd easily make the play-offs, so would Colts if they had Brady. There might be a slight drop off but it certainly wouldn't be anything significant.

tallaghtoutlaws

davyjose wrote: »

You can only play what's in front of you. Tebow's arm might not be his best attribute, but it's not the dud people in the media make it out to be. It has been very, very effective in the past. He might not have the arm someone like cutler has, but who cares.

Also if we're talking ridiculous, lets look at your Ryan Leaf example. In what universe are they comparable? Leaf had none of the qualities Tebow has, and vice versa.

HE is a QB of course his arm is important. He floats the football far too much. Unfortunately he doesn't have the strongest arm around and unfortunately for him coaches notice this. If he throws that many passes anywhere near Pro secondaries he will be picked off a lot. The problem as I said before he needs a lot of work with a solid QB coach and a lot of time to adjust to a system. Unless a team is willing to risk changing their whole system to suit his abilities and in this case his running ability. Tebow when he gets pressured runs with the ball and this proves to be much easier in College football than the NFL.

Sure College football is played to a high standard but the NFL is played at a much higher standard and has the best of the best hence why they are in the NFL. What worries coaches that he will depend on his scrambling abilities far too much and we all know scrambling in the NFL is not easy. Big Linebackers and D linemen with 40 times that are phenomenal for their size. Something you just don't see in College teams on every team.

Look no one is saying he will be a bust or fail. But to argue because he had a Fantastic college career makes him a given is madness and that was my main point. Something which many have done.

As for my Ryan Leaf comparison you missed my point. Where did I compare them by ability? Leaf was considered to be someone who was going to be elite and he choked and failed. That was my point.

You see you are convinced that Tebow will be successful and I have given you my reasons why he may not. I didn't say he wont. But to be honest I just don't see him impacting as a QB with that arm of his. He is a pure athlete but im not convinced.

eagle eye

Well they all said 'look at Vince Young'. Well he did appear to be a bust but his performances this year has shown that he is anything but a bust. His stock rising helps Tebow's draft stock imo.

I think a guy who can be a leader, and is a born winner will make it in the NFL. Tebow has all the intangibles, he will have to work hard on the throw to be fair but he will make it, I'm certain of that.

_Buck Rogers

eagle eye wrote: »

Well they all said 'look at Vince Young'. Well he did appear to be a bust but his performances this year has shown that he is anything but a bust. His stock rising helps Tebow's draft stock imo.

I think a guy who can be a leader, and is a born winner will make it in the NFL. Tebow has all the intangibles, he will have to work hard on the throw to be fair but he will make it, I'm certain of that.

to be fair to young he got 2006 rookie of the year and lost his place after he was injured. So this season isnt the first showing of what he's made of.

Chucky the tree

Not only that but VY was a nailed on top 10 pick, even top 5 and was the 1st QB taken. Tebow could easily fall as low as the 3rd round and most definitely won't be the first QB taken.

tallaghtoutlaws

eagle eye wrote: »

Well they all said 'look at Vince Young'. Well he did appear to be a bust but his performances this year has shown that he is anything but a bust. His stock rising helps Tebow's draft stock imo.

I think a guy who can be a leader, and is a born winner will make it in the NFL. Tebow has all the intangibles, he will have to work hard on the throw to be fair but he will make it, I'm certain of that.

Vince Young has had a few years to mature as an NFL player. And to be honest Vince Young has a better arm than Tebow much better in fact.

Tebow has a long hard route in my opinion and it is this that will see him drop in the draft. There are maybe 1 or 2 teams that may take a chance on him in the Draft in the 1st or 2nd rounds because of the commercial aspect of it. Jags being one.

No team will want to give him big money if a lot of hard work and practice is required to get him ready for the NFL especially when it is his throwing ability is in question.

Look don't get me wrong Tebow will make the NFL. But the superstar elite aspect that people keep harping on about I just don't see it especially not straight away.

davyjose

tallaghtoutlaws wrote: »

Vince Young has had a few years to mature as an NFL player. And to be honest Vince Young has a better arm than Tebow much better in fact.

So in your opinion is Young a better Player than Tebow? I just want to straighten this out, because from what I can make out, Young was excellent in college, but Tebow was better. So Tebow has every bit the chance of making it that young has. You say young has a better arm, but he wasn't drafted ahead of Leinart or Cutler because of his arm.

Also, if it's predominantly about having a good arm, but Cutler has an arm, Russell has an arm. What are they lacking*?

(I'm not even sure i agree tebow's arm is as bad as you say. The guy has pretty good numbers.)

















*Because whatever it is, I bet Tebow has it in spades.

tallaghtoutlaws

davyjose wrote: »

So in your opinion is Young a better Player than Tebow? I just want to straighten this out, because from what I can make out, Young was excellent in college, but Tebow was better. So Tebow has every bit the chance of making it that young has. You say young has a better arm, but he wasn't drafted ahead of Leinart or Cutler because of his arm.

Also, if it's predominantly about having a good arm, but Cutler has an arm, Russell has an arm. What are they lacking*?

(I'm not even sure i agree tebow's arm is as bad as you say. The guy has pretty good numbers.)



*Because whatever it is, I bet Tebow has it in spades.

Where did I say Young was better than Tebow? I said he has a better arm and has matured in the NFL over a couple of season hence why he is doing so well right now.

Seriously this is the second time you have taken me out of context and not clearly read the rest of the post properly.

No one knows how Tebow will get on in the NFL including me. Your college career does not define that. Some of the best college football players have failed in the NFL. As for comparing them as individuals in college iagain it means nothing as they have to prove themselves either way in the NFL.

I didn't bring up Young lets get that clear. But again I did say coincidentally he has a better arm than Tebow and has matured in the NFL hence why he seems to be doing so well now. Coaching him clearly has worked in many aspects of his game.

Im not saying it anymore. If Tebow succeeds he succeeds. It means he has gotten the right coaching and given the right direction by whoever takes him in the Draft.

The problem here is those who are convinced he will be one of the best QBs in the NFL have yet to give a proper argument to the cause.

To sum up its down to who is willing to try fit him and coach him correctly into their system or down to those who are willing to adjust their system to him. Simple as. Do I personally see him being anymore than an average NFL QB no I don't. Average as in not being Manning Brady Brees type QBs.

I dont know why people keep comparing him in their arguments to other QBs I said nothing about.

tallaghtoutlaws

davyjose wrote: »

Also, if it's predominantly about having a good arm, but Cutler has an arm, Russell has an arm. What are they lacking*?

(I'm not even sure i agree tebow's arm is as bad as you say. The guy has pretty good numbers.)


*Because whatever it is, I bet Tebow has it in spades.

Firstly I never said his arm was bad. And what has Cutler and Young got to do with this? They are on Pro teams and have their problems. They are another threads argument really and in fact they were done already on here I suggest you find those thread because Im not going to compare them myself to a guy who has yet to take a snap in the NFL.

Throwing the Ball in college and numbers dont carry across to the NFL. Look Graham Herrell and his numbers at Texas Tech.

In college you don't play against Pro Secondaries week in week out. The arguments to his arm is that his high long balls float too much and if you throw them type of balls at a Pro secondary it will be picked off.

This is not just my opinion many coaches and scouts and pundits have said it.

davyjose

tallaghtoutlaws wrote: »

Where did I say Young was better than Tebow? I said he has a better arm and has matured in the NFL over a couple of season hence why he is doing so well right now.

Seriously this is the second time you have taken me out of context and not clearly read the rest of the post properly. No one knows how Tebow will get on in the NFL including me. Your college career does not define that. Some of the best college football players have failed in the NFL. As for comparing them as individuals in college iagain it means nothing as they have to prove themselves either way in the NFL.

I didn't bring up Young lets get that clear. But again I did say coincidentally he has a better arm than Tebow and has matured in the NFL hence why he seems to be doing so well now. Coaching him clearly has worked in many aspects of his game.

Im not saying it anymore. If Tebow succeeds he succeeds. It means he has gotten the right coaching and given the right direction by whoever takes him in the Draft.

The problem here is those who are convinced he will be one of the best QBs in the NFL have yet to give a proper argument to the cause.

To sum up its down to who is willing to try fit him and coach him correctly into their system or down to those who are willing to adjust their system to him. Simple as. Do I personally see him being anymore than an average NFL QB no I don't. Average as in not being Manning Brady Brees type QBs.

I dont know why people keep comparing him in their arguments to other QBs I said nothing about.

Fair enough, but the issue of Young was raised. Young is doing VERY well as a QB lately, and so my point is: unless they see Tebow as inferior to Young, they can't make that call.

I never said Tebow would be elite, but I think he will bring a lot to whoever does draft him. There is no way of knowing it's true. But where you have a problem with people saying "tebow will be awesome in the NFL", i have a problem with people saying he'll be rubbish.

I haven't really misquoted you either Tallaght, in your initial post, you mentioned that you hate how people say "he was awesome in college so he will be awesome in NFL"(or something like that), but my point is, unless his college abilities mean nothing, then he does stand a good chance of succeeding in NFL, by virtue of the fact that he is an awesome footballer - and has proven it.

It's weird that we're the ones who (and I'll quote) "don't back up [our] opinions", and yet all I'm hearing is he doesn't have a strong arm. That's not a sound argument to me about a guy who has gotten 42 TD's in a 13/14 game season. You're telling me it's "ridiculous" to mention the Sugar bowl, because the team ranked 4th in the BCS weren't a decent challenge??? C'mon man? That's a flimsier argument than any I've seen against.

davyjose

tallaghtoutlaws wrote: »

Firstly I never said his arm was bad.

tallaghtoutlaws wrote: »

HE is a QB of course his arm is important. He floats the football far too much. Unfortunately he doesn't have the strongest arm around and unfortunately for him coaches notice this. If he throws that many passes anywhere near Pro secondaries he will be picked off a lot.

Eh..... you've clearly criticised his arm above

tallaghtoutlaws wrote: »

And what has Cutler and Young got to do with this? They are on Pro teams and have their problems. They are another threads argument really and in fact they were done already on here I suggest you find those thread because Im not going to compare them myself to a guy who has yet to take a snap in the NFL.

Cutler and Young are relevant because they are living proof that much, much more than a good strong arm are needed to succeed in the NFL.

Dodge

davyjose wrote: »

I don't get why some people are so adamant that ability won't translate to the NFL - it's the same bloody sport.

Its wildly different. There are about 3/4 college offenses that play "pro style" offense. The option pass is a huge, huge part of all college offense and its seen as a trick play in the NFL

As for the level of play; the NFL has 32 squads, and they have 53 man rosters. There are 120 top tier (BCS) college teams and more below that (from where QBs like Warner, Romo and Flacco came).

Its highly probable that Tebow has come up against no more than 10-15 NFL quality defenders in his 3 years as a starting QB.

I wish the lad well, as he seems genuine, but there's a reason why greater judges than us think Tebow won't make it

Dodge

davyjose wrote: »

Cutler and Young are relevant because they are living proof that much, much more than a good strong arm are needed to succeed in the NFL.

They're also proof that outstanding college careers do not autmatically make outstanding pro players

tallaghtoutlaws

davyjose wrote: »

It's weird that we're the ones who (and I'll quote) "don't back up [our] opinions", and yet all I'm hearing is he doesn't have a strong arm. That's not a sound argument to me about a guy who has gotten 42 TD's in a 13/14 game season. You're telling me it's "ridiculous" to mention the Sugar bowl, because the team ranked 4th in the BCS weren't a decent challenge??? C'mon man? That's a flimsier argument than any I've seen against.

Are you for real? Strong arm doesnt mean you wont throw a lot of TDs in College or anywhere. Again read what I wrote in my posts. When he throws a high long ball he hangs it up there far too long. This is a problem with strength for him on long passes. The problem lies within that if he does that against Pro corners the chances of INT are very high.

And again on high numbers in College

My example with Graham Harrell to show stats dont count:

Harrell: 4 years 15,793yds 134 Tds,

Tebow: 4 years 9,286yds 88tds,

Now Graham Harrell was told his arm strength was in question and look at his numbers for College football.

Now this doesnt mean they wont score TDs I never said that. But throwing long deep balls into coverage will put them as questionable especially against Pro Secondaries. Now I have backed up my arm strength thing more than once.

Now no one was willing to take a shot on a guy like Harrell, BUT Tebow on the other yes of course someone will but the next question is who and at what capacity. His arm will need a lot of work and that is a fact. But again this doesn't mean he wont score TDs but any coach will want to make sure they fix this problem before putting him up against the best of the best.

tallaghtoutlaws

davyjose wrote: »

I haven't really misquoted you either Tallaght, in your initial post, you mentioned that you hate how people say "he was awesome in college so he will be awesome in NFL"(or something like that), but my point is, unless his college abilities mean nothing, then he does stand a good chance of succeeding in NFL, by virtue of the fact that he is an awesome footballer - and has proven it.

As for this you have taken this out of context. There are so many people who feel just because he was awesome in college feel he will be an instant success in the NFL. And these people never back it up with anything more than Oh he was awesome in college. Now at least with you, you have opened up your discussion on the topic more but others refuse to.

I never said his arm was bad either to go back to that. Saying it isn't the strongest around doesn't mean bad. I clearly on many occasions said he will need a lot of work to fix it.

davyjose

Fair enough. I do think that Tebow is such an incredible athlete, and the fact he brings those intangibles (i can see how wishy-washy a term that is, but you can't deny the guy has something), that it will carry through.
Maybe it is largely based on a hunch, but there is a lot to be said for hard work and a will to win. Look at how hard Peyton Manning works at his craft. There are guys with stronger arms and guys with better accuracy. But he's the guy staying up watching every Bears game on Videotape the week before SuperBowl 41. I honestly believe that's Manning's biggest attribute.

Tebow is that guy too. And I'm sorry, but for all the natural ability, Cutler and russell aren't.

That's why I think Tebow will succeed. I can see why that looks like we're not coming up with facts. But there is a strong argument there.

tallaghtoutlaws

davyjose wrote: »

You're telling me it's "ridiculous" to mention the Sugar bowl, because the team ranked 4th in the BCS weren't a decent challenge??? C'mon man? That's a flimsier argument than any I've seen against.

Are you trying to tell me we were watching the same Bearcats than we watched all season? Did you watch any of their games at all this season? With Kelly gone for the last couple of weeks you could see how different the Cinci boys were. That was obvious to everyone including the commentators and most likely Urban Meyer. The Gators played against a different team in the Sugar Bowl and that is fact. Had Kelly been there it would have been more of a contest. Coaches of his calibre make a huge difference to the confidence of a team.

tallaghtoutlaws

davyjose wrote: »

Fair enough. I do think that Tebow is such an incredible athlete, and the fact he brings those intangibles (i can see how wishy-washy a term that is, but you can't deny the guy has something), that it will carry through.
Maybe it is largely based on a hunch, but there is a lot to be said for hard work and a will to win. Look at how hard Peyton Manning works at his craft. There are guys with stronger arms and guys with better accuracy. But he's the guy staying up watching every Bears game on Videotape the week before SuperBowl 41. I honestly believe that's Manning's biggest attribute.

Tebow is that guy too. And I'm sorry, but for all the natural ability, Cutler and russell aren't.

That's why I think Tebow will succeed. I can see why that looks like we're not coming up with facts. But there is a strong argument there.

I dont like Cutler or Russell to be honest. Cutler for me I liked him a lot when he came out of college even for the majority of this year but it seems he is forcing more and more of his passes this year and playing like sh1te. I can't put my finger on why he is self destructing tbh. As for Russell never liked the chap even in college.

I would like to see the Patriots take Tebow in maybe the 2nd or 3rd round if he drops considering we have loads of picks. I think BB and the Pats would get a lot out of Tebow and work with that arm of his especially under the tutelage of Brady.

eagle eye

There is nothing wrong with Tebow's arm, its just his style thats a problem. He drops his arm too low before he throws and that will lead to a lot of fumbles in the nfl with top class rushers getting close enough to knock it out.

I've seen Tebow throw bullets, I've seen him throw floaters too. He can do it all, its just mechanics. He will work hard to fix them, I guarantee you he blows everyone away at the combine next year.

tallaghtoutlaws

eagle eye wrote: »

There is nothing wrong with Tebow's arm, its just his style thats a problem. He drops his arm too low before he throws and that will lead to a lot of fumbles in the nfl with top class rushers getting close enough to knock it out.

I've seen Tebow throw bullets, I've seen him throw floaters too. He can do it all, its just mechanics. He will work hard to fix them, I guarantee you he blows everyone away at the combine next year.

So all those coaches and pundits who have noticed it are wrong then is what you are saying? I'm not the only one saying it. When he throws deep they hang up there. And after watching tape after hearing that I tend to agree with these experts. Sure they were even saying it the other night during the Sugar Bowl.

You know for your sake I hope he does blow everyone away as you suggest because at least with others they are not making stupid guarantees like you as to whether he will succeed or fail.

And Im done on this subject its now at a point to each their own when it comes to opinion but to be honest one thing I didnt do is say he will completely fail or completely be the best ever. A lot of hard work needed by him.

davyjose

tallaghtoutlaws wrote: »

A lot of hard work needed by him.

No better man

frostie500

I dont think that Tebow will come into the NFL and be amazing but I do think that he will come in and be a functional qb that can move the chains. I agree with Tallaght saying that he has mechanical issues with his throw he doesnt have a quick delivery and it floats on long balls. But if he gets picked up by a team that can implement a system for him he can be very successful.

Tebow reads the game well in college and doesnt make too many bad decisions this will translate to the pros, as will his work ethic and in all liklihood his leadership. Every year we see qbs in the NFL that perform well as a game manager. As an example would Raider fans rather have a qb with a great work ethic and leadership under centre or JaMarcus Russel there(and taking up all that cap room!). The Raiders only need a qb that wont turn the ball over(defence, rushing and special teams are more then good enough) and will hit quick outs and slants as well as screen plays to their running backs. Tebow can do that sort of job as a game manager in the NFL.

The draft is a lottery but if a team takes Tebow and realises that they need to develop him then he can be an effective player. Tallaght brought up the Pats taking him, I wouldnt be suprised at all if that occured if Tebow was available to them. Bellichek loves players with numerous skills like Tebow and would be able to engineer him to come in 5-6 plays a game, or whatever, and have an impact. Brady has shown time and again(eg his contract) that he is a team player and only winning matters so he wouldnt have an issue giving up a few snaps. If people are realistic of what to expect of Tebow he could be successful but the perception of his success or failure will be dependant on when he gets drafted