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Lisbon Treaty Debate on boards.ie

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    #152
    K-9
    Registered Users Posts: 43,311 ✭✭✭✭K-9


    Captain Furball wrote: »
    I'm well aware of that.
    But it's not like the EU is the voice of all it's citizens now is it?

    Vote Yes for the Citizens Initiative.

    That will give them a voice, even the nutjobs.

    Mad Men's Don Draper : What you call love was invented by guys like me, to sell nylons.



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    #153
    Captain Furball
    Closed Accounts Posts: 909 ✭✭✭Captain Furball


    Daftendirekt wrote: »
    The respective governments of the member states fill that role.

    Edit: And the Parliament too.
    Well that's semantics im talking about what the people want and what the people get are 2 different things.Yes they can vote in another government but that's not going to change much now is it. Either way they are pushing ahead with this treaty full steam ahead whether you like it or not.


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    #154
    Captain Furball
    Closed Accounts Posts: 909 ✭✭✭Captain Furball


    K-9 wrote: »
    Vote Yes for the Citizens Initiative.

    That will give them a voice, even the nutjobs.

    Why even give the nut jobs a vote I wouldn't.


    Citizens Initiative isn't that akin to the feedback on the back of the McDonald's napkins?
    Not remotely amusing.


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    #155
    K-9
    Registered Users Posts: 43,311 ✭✭✭✭K-9


    Captain Furball wrote: »
    Why even give the nut jobs a vote I wouldn't.


    Citizens Initiative isn't that akin to the feedback on the back of the McDonald's napkins?
    Not remotely amusing.

    Look, if the Scientologists can gather 1,000,000 signatures fair play to them. Only of it is a Commission competence can they act.

    Is that your only point against it?

    Mad Men's Don Draper : What you call love was invented by guys like me, to sell nylons.



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    #156
    Captain Furball
    Closed Accounts Posts: 909 ✭✭✭Captain Furball


    Just because you send in feedback doesn't mean it's going to be acted upon.
    And why should you even have to send feedback in? Do you not see how stupid that sounds?


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    #157
    evercloserunion
    Registered Users Posts: 1,889 ✭✭✭evercloserunion


    Captain Furball wrote: »
    Why even give the nut jobs a vote I wouldn't.
    You realize if we stopped giving votes to nutjobs yours would be the first to go?


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    #158
    Scofflaw
    Registered Users Posts: 23,283 ✭✭✭✭Scofflaw


    Captain Furball wrote: »
    Just because you send in feedback doesn't mean it's going to be acted upon.
    And why should you even have to send feedback in? Do you not see how stupid that sounds?

    It's not feedback - they do that through the various consultations. It's the opportunity to put a request for a legislative proposal on the Commission agenda, same as the Council and Parliament do. Around 95% of Commission proposals each year are as the result of requests from Member state governments through the Council, or from EU civil society organisations and social partner. Only a tiny proportion are from the Commission services using their 'right of initiative' without a specific request. The Citizens' Initiatives gives the same right to the citizens directly.

    cordially,
    Scofflaw


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    #159
    nesf
    Registered Users Posts: 27,645 ✭✭✭✭nesf


    Captain Furball wrote: »
    I'm well aware of that.
    But it's not like the EU is the voice of all it's citizens now is it?

    Should it be? Seriously, we, the Irish, don't want a voice of all its citizens because we'd be drowned out and have very little say in such a populist orginisation!

    The people are represented by their Government and by their elected representatives. The people can punish both for taking decisions they disagree with in the same way by not reelecting them. Unless you subscribe to the notion that we don't need Governments (which is, well, an odd one) then I find it hard to see why you'd have a problem with the Government representing us at EU level since they already represent us at national level and in all foreign relations etc.


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    #160
    Captain Furball
    Closed Accounts Posts: 909 ✭✭✭Captain Furball


    evercloserunion wrote: »
    You realize if we stopped giving votes to nutjobs yours would be the first to go?
    You think I'm a nut job? But I'm voting yes.


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    #161
    Sam Vimes
    Registered Users Posts: 21,611 ✭✭✭✭Sam Vimes


    Captain Furball wrote: »
    My point is everyone in this thread keeps saying article this section that.But in reality we will have to go help them and if we don't we will be isolated.
    It's like whats happening right now with our own incompetent government.
    If you don;'t vote yes your going to die is what they're nearly saying.

    If you think that we'll have to help them militarily regardless of what it says in the treaties then why does it matter what way we vote on the Lisbon treaty? A treaty only matters if its "articles and sections" are going to be followed


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    #162
    Captain Furball
    Closed Accounts Posts: 909 ✭✭✭Captain Furball


    Sam Vimes wrote: »
    If you think that we'll have to help them militarily regardless of what it says in the treaties then why does it matter what way we vote on the Lisbon treaty? A treaty only matters if its "articles and sections" are going to be followed

    If we sign it then we are obligated to help them.If we didn't sign it, we won't be singled out because we will be obligated to do whatever is in our countries interests,not the eu's.


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    #163
    ei.sdraob
    Closed Accounts Posts: 9,376 ✭✭✭ei.sdraob


    Captain Furball wrote: »
    If we sign it then we are obligated to help them.If we didn't sign it, we won't be singled out because we will be obligated to do whatever is in our countries interests,not the eu's.

    send them one military radio handset

    obligation fulfilled :D


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    #164
    Sam Vimes
    Registered Users Posts: 21,611 ✭✭✭✭Sam Vimes


    Captain Furball wrote: »
    If we sign it then we are obligated to help them.If we didn't sign it, we won't be singled out because we will be obligated to do whatever is in our countries interests,not the eu's.

    We're telling you that the provisions of the treaties do not effect our neutrality and do not require us to give military aid and you said that it does matter what "the articles and sections" say because we'll have to help anyway or be isolated. Either the articles matter and obligate us or they don't matter and we'll have to do it whether we're legally obliged or not. You can't refer to the treaty when you think it supports what you think and then say it doesn't matter what the treaty says when we point out that it doesn't actually say that.

    Unless of course you don't give a crap what the treaty says and just want to spread the false idea that it effects our neutrality


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    #165
    bonkey
    Registered Users Posts: 15,443 ✭✭✭✭bonkey


    So, is it just me, or has this thread and its original topic parted ways?


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    #166
    DeVore
    Business & Finance Moderators, Entertainment Moderators Posts: 32,387 Mod ✭✭✭✭DeVore


    So many people arguing and... FNCK ALL OF THEM STEPPING FORWARD!!!

    this is a thread for proposing yourself as a debater. Not for ACTUALLY HAVING THE DEBATE. Jeezzzzz

    DeV.


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    #167
    BlitzKrieg
    Registered Users Posts: 14,685 ✭✭✭✭BlitzKrieg


    DeVore wrote: »
    So many people arguing and... FNCK ALL OF THEM STEPPING FORWARD!!!

    this is a thread for proposing yourself as a debater. Not for ACTUALLY HAVING THE DEBATE. Jeezzzzz

    DeV.

    why do you think I've been avoiding this debate :D


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