National Postcodes to be introduced

a65b2cd

plodder wrote: »

If they have the database, they should be able to convert any Eircode to an address.

My guess is that it was done in the other direction and that those Eircodes were assigned as part of the public sector databases matching project. When they are updating the electoral register in 2016, they may ask everyone for their Eircode - that is the only way that they can collect it for non-unique addresses.

Bear in mind that the electoral register unit is a person whereas the Eircode register is an address so they will have to ask people what address (es ) do they want to be registered at for the upcoming election.

byrnefm

I went into my bank a few days ago and asked if I can add the Eircode to my address. Still not an option.

Is there any bank reported to be supporting them yet? Surely they would be useful for the likes of credit card verification online?

ukoda

byrnefm wrote: »

I went into my bank a few days ago and asked if I can add the Eircode to my address. Still not an option.

Is there any bank reported to be supporting them yet? Surely they would be useful for the likes of credit card verification online?

AIB has a section on their website advising they will be implementing them at some stage

Mountainsandh

And again the issue of geographical vs postal addresses will pop up.

I was writing a long post, but I'm only repeating myself so no.

Some day this will have to be addressed in an open, debatable manner. People will want to have a say in this.

Mountainsandh

ukoda wrote: »

AIB has a section on their website advising they will be implementing them at some stage

They'll simply have to, since my AIB post for example was consistently delayed by that selection of zealous An Post workers who now require me to change counties.

I rang them about that, I was able to add Eircode to some of my addresses/accounts, not the mortgage account.

oscarBravo

Mountainsandh wrote: »

And again the issue of geographical vs postal addresses will pop up.

I really don't see why.

I posted a Streetview URL earlier, showing two neighbouring premises in adjacent counties. The filling station on the left is in Bellaghy, Co Sligo; the house on the right is in Charlestown, Co Mayo. The fact that they are on either side of a completely arbitrary line is irrelevant - all anyone needs to know is where they are, and I don't care if the filling station gives its address as Charlestown, Co Mayo once I can locate it.

Genuine question: once banks are using Eircodes, why would there be an issue of geographical versus postal addresses?

ukoda

Mountainsandh wrote: »

And again the issue of geographical vs postal addresses will pop up.

Some day this will have to be addressed in an open, debatable manner. People will want to have a say in this.

You can debate the existence of postal and geographic addresses all you want.

I don't believe this is the forum for it though

I completely agree with you that there shouldn't be 2 versions of people's addresses. The only thing I wanted to set you straight on was your incorrect claims that eircode caused it and your failure to grasp that the geodirectory is the an post directory and that both geo and postal addresses exist in it.

As I've said to you many many times, the route cause precedes eircodes existence, that's the only thing I ever challenged you on.

Mountainsandh

ukoda wrote: »

You can debate the existence of postal and geographic addresses all you want.

I don't believe this is the forum for it though

I completely agree with you that there shouldn't be 2 versions of people's addresses. The only thing I wanted to set you straight on was your incorrect claims that eircode caused it and your failure to grasp that the geodirectory is the an post directory and that both geo and postal addresses exist in it.

As I've said to you many many times, the route cause precedes eircodes existence, that's the only thing I ever challenged you on.

Ukoda, maybe I can make it clearer.

The postal address alone was no issue, until the arrival of Eircodes.

With the arrival of Eircodes, and soon-to-be general adoption of Eircodes, the postal address will take precedence over geographical. That is the issue.

Mountainsandh

oscarBravo wrote: »

I really don't see why.

I posted a Streetview URL earlier, showing two neighbouring premises in adjacent counties. The filling station on the left is in Bellaghy, Co Sligo; the house on the right is in Charlestown, Co Mayo. The fact that they are on either side of a completely arbitrary line is irrelevant - all anyone needs to know is where they are, and I don't care if the filling station gives its address as Charlestown, Co Mayo once I can locate it.

Genuine question: once banks are using Eircodes, why would there be an issue of geographical versus postal addresses?

None with my bank, once Eircodes are accepted.

My remark was not in relation to Aib, it was in relation to the electoral register. A lot more significant.

ukoda

Mountainsandh wrote: »

Ukoda, maybe I can make it clearer.

The postal address alone was no issue, until the arrival of Eircodes.

With the arrival of Eircodes, and soon-to-be general adoption of Eircodes, the postal address will take precedence over geographical. That is the issue.

I know what your issue is. I happen to sympathise with it. Just make your arguement factual and be aware that An Post were "forcing" postal versions of addresses on people long before eircode. Be open to the fact that you may have an unfortunate coincidence on your hands and that even if you take eircode out of the equation, you still have the same problem that would eventually come to light

Carawaystick

oscarBravo wrote: »

Genuine question: once banks are using Eircodes, why would there be an issue of geographical versus postal addresses?

Why would you trust a bank? They all lied about the most fundamental thing a bank needs to be, being solvent.
Some have even been found out in court not knowing their own names.

If a bank were to repossess a home, they'd need to know where it is according to the deeds, or prai. Not what the post think.

ukoda

Carawaystick wrote: »

Why would you trust a bank? They all lied about the most fundamental thing a bank needs to be, being solvent.
Some have even been found out in court not knowing their own names.

If a bank were to repossess a home, they'd need to know where it is according to the deeds, or prai. Not what the post think.

True, I'm always hearing in the news that banks are failing to repossess houses because they can't find them. It's a major concern.

Mountainsandh

ukoda wrote: »

I know what your issue is. I happen to sympathise with it. Just make your arguement factual and be aware that An Post were "forcing" postal versions of addresses on people long before eircode. Be open to the fact that you may have an unfortunate coincidence on your hands and that even if you take eircode out of the equation, you still have the same problem that would eventually come to light

No, because An Post's only business with me is delivery of post. In contrast, when Eircodes are required for official records on property tax, motor tax, HSE, electoral, and other important, location based services, it has the potential to change existing records in a very forceful and evident way.

Of course officially at this very moment, this is not yet an issue. This will turn into one as soon as agencies decide that discrepancies in a number of addresses are an issue, and that the situation needs simplifying.

oscarBravo

Mountainsandh wrote: »

My remark was not in relation to Aib, it was in relation to the electoral register. A lot more significant.

I'm still not seeing the problem. Every Eircode record is associated with a local authority, an electoral division, a small area and a townland. The actual postal address is barely relevant from an electoral register perspective.

Carawaystick wrote: »

If a bank were to repossess a home, they'd need to know where it is according to the deeds, or prai. Not what the post think.

If only the Eircode database had information about where a home actually is, as opposed to "what the post think" (whatever that means).

plodder

oscarBravo wrote: »

I'm still not seeing the problem. Every Eircode record is associated with a local authority, an electoral division, a small area and a townland. The actual postal address is barely relevant from an electoral register perspective.

Each local authority has a database of names, addresses and electoral information about each person at the address. If the address in that database is not the same as the one provided by Eircode, then there isn't a simple match between an Eircode that someone types in on checktheregister.ie, with a record in their own database.

ukoda

plodder wrote: »

Each local authority has a database of names, addresses and electoral information about each person at the address. If the address in that database is not the same as the one provided by Eircode, then there isn't a simple match between an Eircode that someone types in on checktheregister.ie, with a record in their own database.

If eircode is appended to the electoral register then that means ECAD is, which means the geo directory is, which means all addresses are there.

It will work the same way as the An Post correct address checker, no matter what version of the address you type in it will match it in the database

Alun

plodder wrote: »

Each local authority has a database of names, addresses and electoral information about each person at the address. If the address in that database is not the same as the one provided by Eircode, then there isn't a simple match between an Eircode that someone types in on checktheregister.ie, with a record in their own database.

That's what seems to be the problem in my case. For some bizarre reason, Geodirectory have inserted a spurious line in between my street address and town, i.e. the road that my estate joins on to. The same goes for some, but not all of the other estates off the same road. It seems on the face of it to be the newer estates, so maybe it was added temporarily at one stage to assist people finding it when they were being built, otherwise I can find no earthly reason why it should be there.

ukoda

Alun wrote: »

That's what seems to be the problem in my case. For some bizarre reason, Geodirectory have inserted a spurious line in between my street address and town, i.e. the road that my estate joins on to. The same goes for some, but not all of the other estates off the same road. It seems on the face of it to be the newer estates, so maybe it was added temporarily at one stage to assist people finding it when they were being built, otherwise I can find no earthly reason why it should be there.

Having the road that your estate is on seems like a perfectly reasonable address structure?

Name of estate
Road it's on
Town
County

Is this what you mean?

Alun

ukoda wrote: »

Having the road that your estate is on seems like a perfectly reasonable address structure?

Name of estate
Road it's on
Town
County

Is this what you mean?

Well, it has a name all by itself with house numbers and everything, and has it's entrance on the road in question. Totally superfluous IMO.

ukoda

Alun wrote: »

Well, it has a name all by itself with house numbers and everything, and has it's entrance on the road in question. Totally superfluous IMO.

I think that sounds ok,


House number, Name of the housing estate
The road the housing estate is on
Town
County

That's a pretty standard address structure?

plodder

ukoda wrote: »

If eircode is appended to the electoral register then that means ECAD is, which means the geo directory is, which means all addresses are there.

It will work the same way as the An Post correct address checker, no matter what version of the address you type in it will match it in the database

A lot of assumptions there. Bottom line is, it's not working for any addresses I tried out that don't match 100%

Alun

But the "housing estate" is a street in it's own right, why overburden the address with information that isn't needed to find it? Plus they're inconsistent with it .. on the other side of the road there's a massive estate, many times larger than ours, where that road doesn't form part of the address for example. Also on another large arterial road that runs roughly parallel to it, again no mention of that road in their addresses.

plodder

Alun wrote: »

That's what seems to be the problem in my case. For some bizarre reason, Geodirectory have inserted a spurious line in between my street address and town, i.e. the road that my estate joins on to. The same goes for some, but not all of the other estates off the same road. It seems on the face of it to be the newer estates, so maybe it was added temporarily at one stage to assist people finding it when they were being built, otherwise I can find no earthly reason why it should be there.

In the few I checked, the problem was that the postal address included a postal town (Naas in one example) but the address on the electoral register didn't include Naas. They really should be able to deal with that by trying a match without including the post town, but I'm sure there are other potential problems as well. As other posters have been saying, the fundamental issue is the lack of a standard address.

oscarBravo

Alun wrote: »

But the "housing estate" is a street in it's own right, why overburden the address with information that isn't needed to find it? Plus they're inconsistent with it .. on the other side of the road there's a massive estate, many times larger than ours, where that road doesn't form part of the address for example. Also on another large arterial road that runs roughly parallel to it, again no mention of that road in their addresses.

So don't use that road name when you're writing out your address. It doesn't matter what's in Geodirectory or the ECAD; you can write your address whatever way makes sense to you, and append your Eircode.

Alun

oscarBravo wrote: »

So don't use that road name when you're writing out your address. It doesn't matter what's in Geodirectory or the ECAD; you can write your address whatever way makes sense to you, and append your Eircode.

I don't, and never have. Many state / semi-state bodies do though.

Anyway, I was only mentioning it in connection with the Electoral Register discussion as a possible explanation of why the Eircode method of entering your address wouldn't work for me.

moyners

plodder wrote: »

In the few I checked, the problem was that the postal address included a postal town (Naas in one example) but the address on the electoral register didn't include Naas. They really should be able to deal with that by trying a match without including the post town, but I'm sure there are other potential problems as well. As other posters have been saying, the fundamental issue is the lack of a standard address.

In my experience the eReg system has always been a complete pain to use, full of quirks and unusual interpretations of addresses and unless you guess correctly what they're looking for it can be hard to find yourself on the system.

I reckon though that once (or if) they get eircodes working on the system it will simplify the whole thing - just pop in your eircode and it'll tell you are you registered at that address (postal/electoral/townland whatever - it's still the same house which is what matters).

Going by how woeful their system has been up till now though I'm afraid I may be too optimistic.

Carawaystick

oscarBravo wrote: »

If only the Eircode database had information about where a home actually is, as opposed to "what the post think" (whatever that means).

And it would never happen that a piece of land without a postal address might be repossesed.

As for you not being able to figure out I was using the english name of a company....

Mountainsandh

oscarBravo wrote: »

I'm still not seeing the problem. Every Eircode record is associated with a local authority, an electoral division, a small area and a townland. The actual postal address is barely relevant from an electoral register perspective.

I agree, the postal address is not relevant as long as the other address is taken as the correct one.

Remember that my concerns would be about the adoption of one over the other over time (because of Eircodes use spreading over various agencies).

In the case of electoral register for example, it would mean that a number of people like myself may simply be "shifted" to the postal address division, eventually.

In the meantime the fact that my postal address county does not match my electoral register county and division means that it's very hard to find our records online.

a65b2cd

Mountainsandh wrote: »

In the meantime the fact that my postal address county does not match my electoral register county and division means that it's very hard to find our records online.

Have you checked any of the below or contacted your Local Authority?

I have filled out the form to be registered to vote so why can I not find my details on Check the Register?
There are a number of possible reasons you may not be able to find your details:
• The spelling of an address may be different to the address on Check the Register. E.g. Ballymain instead of Ballymaine. You should ensure that you have selected the correct Townland/Street from the Drop Down List.
• Has your house got a number? If so, enter this house number where requested.
• Did you enter your FULL first name and surname? Have you entered the correct first name? Did you apply to be registered as Joe or Joseph? Marie or Maria?
• Check for Surnames with O’, Mac and Mc in terms of spacing in between e.g. O’Kelly or O Kelly? McCarthy or Mc Carthy?
• Variation in spelling of names, e.g. Brown-Browne, Mahony-Mahoney, Linda-Lynda.
• Did you try to access your details by entering the Eircode for your residence?.

What is the Draft Register?
The Draft Register is published on November 1st each year. It forms the basis of the next Live Register. If you have made an application (RFA Form) to the local authority to be included in the next register of electors and you are not included in the draft register published on 1 November, or if you are on the draft register but your details are incorrect, you should claim to have a correction made by completing the RFA1 Application Formand submitting it to your local authority by 25 November. Printed copies of the Draft Register are available to be viewed at local authority offices, Post Offices, Garda stations and libraries.

plodder

moyners wrote: »

In my experience the eReg system has always been a complete pain to use, full of quirks and unusual interpretations of addresses and unless you guess correctly what they're looking for it can be hard to find yourself on the system.

I reckon though that once (or if) they get eircodes working on the system it will simplify the whole thing - just pop in your eircode and it'll tell you are you registered at that address (postal/electoral/townland whatever - it's still the same house which is what matters).

Going by how woeful their system has been up till now though I'm afraid I may be too optimistic.

In my case, I have to enter the (mis-spelled) house name in the townland section. Not exactly intuitive. But, in any case, Eircode was supposed to make this all so much easier. They made such a song and dance about their address matching capabilities, but I'm not seeing evidence of it here. If they are relying on people updating their own information with their Eircode, then that will never happen.