Europe of Freedom and Democracy group leaflet published

Sam Vimes

free to prosper wrote: »

THe problem with the Charter is not just EU thanasia.

Looks at what effect it has about the death penalty-

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3MLtJNCB7Ac&feature=fvw

*facepalm*

free to prosper

Europe of Freedom and Democracy group has 32 meps.

Ukip has 13 meps.

Can the yes side not even tell the try about simple maths!

you're so desparate.

Euro_Kraut

The depiction of the Turkey with the milestone around its neck is shameful. I wonder who people like this can sleep at night. Depiction the population of country as an animal... this stuff should not be allowed. Imagine how a Turkish person must feel opening this leaflet this morning?

meglome

free to prosper wrote: »

Europe of Freedom and Democracy group has 32 meps.

Ukip has 13 meps.

Can the yes side not even tell the try about simple maths!

you're so desparate.

free to prosper wrote:

Gawain Towler,
Europe of Freedom and Democracy group,
Brussels

I'm sure Gowain Towler being the Press secretary of UKIP is just coincidental.

K-9

free to prosper wrote: »

Europe of Freedom and Democracy group has 32 meps.

Ukip has 13 meps.

Can the yes side not even tell the try about simple maths!

you're so desparate.

So about 40% then.

Are they the biggest party in it?

Martin 2

A thoroughly obnoxious, xenophobic and misleading leaflet from the UKIP under the guise of the EFD group... and they have the cheek to use a Trojan horse in their leaflet
The UKIP's raison d'etre is the withdrawal of the UK from the EU, hence their opposition to the Lisbon Treaty and their campaign for a No vote in Ireland.
The UKIP will not have to live with the fallout of a No vote on this country, they'll return to the UK objective achieved without a second thought for us.

ei.sdraob

free to prosper wrote: »

Europe of Freedom and Democracy group has 32 meps.

Ukip has 13 meps.

Can the yes side not even tell the try about simple maths!

you're so desparate.

actually the number 32 is a recent development

i based my calculations on that wiki article from a while back which had a lower number

so i stand corrected so


UKIP constitute 40% of EDA as of today, with none of the members being from Ireland

talk about "unelected elites"

meglome

ei.sdraob wrote: »

UKIP constitute 40% of EDA as of today, with none of the members being from Ireland

talk about "unelected elites"

Unfortunately some people seem to have special polaroid lenses that filter out an awful lot. One minute it's 'unelected elites' and 'being bullied by Europe' and 'threatened by Europe' then the next minute it's welcoming people like UKIP(EDA) with open arms oblivious to the irony and two-facedness of it.

Euro_Kraut

Interestingly, this leaflet is singed off by the just the UK, French, Danish and Finnish delegations of the Freedom and Democracy Group (see the small print on page 9)

Of that group the UKIP represent 76% of the MEPs.

French - 1 MEP
Danish - 2 MEPs
Finnish - 1 MEP
UKIP- 13 MEPs

This is, for all intents and purposes, a UKIP leaflet.

Martin 2

Euro_Kraut wrote: »

The depiction of the Turkey with the milestone around its neck is shameful. I wonder who people like this can sleep at night. Depiction the population of country as an animal... this stuff should not be allowed. Imagine how a Turkish person must feel opening this leaflet this morning?

Agreed. Similarly I often wonder how Germans view Coir's poster which singles out Germany for a one-sided comparison with Ireland in relation to voting power and presents the poster in red, black and white which has strong connotations for Germans... obviously there is a difference in degree

Btw, thanks for the breakdown of MEP's for this EFD (UKIP) leaflet.

BlitzKrieg

free to prosper wrote: »

Europe of Freedom and Democracy group has 32 meps.

Ukip has 13 meps.

Can the yes side not even tell the try about simple maths!

you're so desparate.

So are you when you keep avoiding the very simple question of what mandate they have in ireland?

They have no representatives at all in any form here in ireland.

While I welcome EU integration etc, I do also believe in representative democracy, which requires that a political entity has some link to the people.

Seeing as the referendum is only open to Irish people, that means a link to Ireland.

If PES and the gue/ngl showed up tomorrow with leaflets I would accept it without complaint because both have irish meps in their ranks.

Hell I'd accept them even if the irish party associated with them only had seats in the national parliament.

Because those are links to a mandate.

something the EDF is completely lacking in any form.

bluepencilcase

UKIP leaflets for Irish 'No' vote
Tuesday, 8th September 2009

UKIP will send a leaflet to every Irish home urging a No vote in the Lisbon Treaty to close an “open door” to immigrants.

It will also argue that the final decision on sensitive ethical issues such as abortion and euthanasia will pass from Irish to European courts if the treaty is ratified.

British MEP and UKIP leader Nigel Farage said: “With the Charter of Fundamental Rights, which is justiciable at the European Court of Justice in Luxembourg, it will no longer be your Supreme Court that takes decisions on really hot and contentious issues.” He added the European court had a record of “political activism”.

Mr Farage, who is a trenchant critic of the EU, described the Government’s guarantees on the treaty as “laughable”.

He said UKIP had decided to get involved in the Lisbon referendum campaign because the “No side seemed to be a bit thin on the ground, and someone needed to redress the balance”.

- This is from UKIP's website. You can go and see it.

I've seen the literature and it is pure lowest common denominator xenophobic crap.

It costs over 250,000 euros to post something to every home in the state. That doesn't include packing costs, costs of literature production etc.

hatrickpatrick

Sam Vimes wrote: »

Does the fact that there aren't really any reputable organisations on the no side side not make you think twice about your position? This certainly gave me a good picture of the motives of the main opponents of this treaty.

...reputable? I can't find many of those on the Yes side either to be quite honest...

Scofflaw

hatrickpatrick wrote: »

...reputable? I can't find many of those on the Yes side either to be quite honest...

Really? IBEC, Intel, Microsoft, the IFA, SIPTU, ETUC, the Labour Party, Fine Gael, ISME, CPSU, all dismissed with a wave of the hand as being equivalent to COIR, eirigi, Libertas, et al? Parties that most of the country votes for the same as groups with a handful of elected representatives between them?

Could be some new meaning of the word 'reputable', of course.

amused,
Scofflaw

free to prosper

bluepencilcase wrote: »

- This is from UKIP's website. You can go and see it.

I've seen the literature ;....

It is not quote from UKIP statement etc. it is reprint of an Irish Times article last week and who would believe the IT on LIsbon

The IT is a pro-Lisbon campaign sheet.

It really is a disgrace and has lost a huge amount of respect.

ei.sdraob

free to prosper wrote: »

It is not quote from UKIP statement etc. it is reprint of an Irish Times article last week and who would believe the IT on LIsbon

The IT is a pro-Lisbon campaign sheet.

It really is a disgrace and has lost a huge amount of respect.

http://www.ukip.org/page/vision

The UK Independence Party is committed to withdrawing Britain from the European Union. As the debate on the Lisbon Treaty has now made clear, the EU agenda is complete political union with all the main functions of national government taken over by the bureaucratic institutions of Brussels.

they hate the EU

its in their policy and vision

meglome

free to prosper wrote: »

It is not quote from UKIP statement etc. it is reprint of an Irish Times article last week and who would believe the IT on LIsbon

The IT is a pro-Lisbon campaign sheet.

It really is a disgrace and has lost a huge amount of respect.

Since nearly every organisation with an opinion is recommending a Yes vote I imagine you'll have a lot of people to lose respect for.

It boggles my mind that you see these organisations as biased instead of the obvious reason that they agree with what's in the treaty.

K-9

free to prosper wrote: »

It is not quote from UKIP statement etc. it is reprint of an Irish Times article last week and who would believe the IT on LIsbon

The IT is a pro-Lisbon campaign sheet.

It really is a disgrace and has lost a huge amount of respect.

Do you not see the irony in what you said there and the leaflets being deivered country wide?

ixtlan

free to prosper wrote: »

It is not quote from UKIP statement etc. it is reprint of an Irish Times article last week and who would believe the IT on LIsbon

Just to clarify...

The text about UKIP sending leaflets to Irish homes is on their web-site. It's true that it is a reprint of an IT article, but they took the headline
UKIP leaflets for Irish 'No' vote UKIP will send a leaflet to every Irish home urging a No vote in the Lisbon Treaty to close an “open door” to...
placed it prominently on their front page, and linked to the IT article on their own site, making no corrections.

That suggests to me that they are quite proud that UKIP is indeed the primary force behind the leaflet. And ironically, I assume they don't really like pushing a European angle with their home voters. So they don't want to say something like UK supports the EFD in it's leaflet campaign.

Ix

Banter Joe

Just wondering about the part in the leaflet which states that a Common Consolidated Corporate tax base could be set up only if the Lisbon treaty is passed. Is that correct?

marco_polo

Banter Joe wrote: »

Just wondering about the part in the leaflet which states that a Common Consolidated Corporate tax base could be set up only if the Lisbon treaty is passed. Is that correct?

No that could already have been setup under Nice through enhanced co-operation, and no member state is obliged to take part in any enhanced co-operation initatives. As far as I am aware the CCCTB proposal is all but dead now in any case, and before that it was going to be a cold day in hell before we and about 17-18 other member states would ever have joined it. Nothing in the present treaty changes anything about the current situation.

ei.sdraob

Banter Joe wrote: »

Just wondering about the part in the leaflet which states that a Common Consolidated Corporate tax base could be set up only if the Lisbon treaty is passed. Is that correct?

as a director of a limited company who has great interest in the subject since i pay alot of corpo tax, quite a simple answer


no its not correct


someone else can give you the long winded version, wouldnt hurt to start a thread just to address this issue i suppose?

Banter Joe

Thanks, that's cleared that up for me anyway. I just assumed the statements they were making might be based on some sort of fact taken out of context rather than just blatant lies. Guess I was wrong.

homer1916

Vote YES!!! Thats all i have to say. Its because i have a brain and listen to economists. Thats right, the people who told us long before anyone else did that a recession was coming. The people who Bertie shot down and the people who really know what to do because they are educated to high levels at economics. So why listen to some "know it all" that wants to be different and vote no. Someone who never predicted the recession and would not admit to been wrong if it meant there life depends on it.

Im sorry, but there are 3 kinds of people here,

1. People who vote no because they have an ulterior motive to whats good for Ireland and whats good for Europe. (ie: Brits who think they are to big for europe or Americans who want to dominate the international decision making process)
I include Ganley here because he has over €300 million worth of contracts with the military in America.

2. People who just want to be different and arguementative. These type of people usually think they know everything when really they dont have a clue. In a perfect world they would not be allowed vote.

3. People who vote yes cause they have a bit of sence and realise that listening to senior economists who know what they are talking about. When Fianna fail, Fianna gael and Labour all can agree to this, well then the answer has to be VOTE YES!!!!:D

vanla sighs

nayorleck114 wrote: »

Talking about foreign power, why is the UKIP party in Ireland? (they hate the Irish)

UKIP aren't. The Freedom & Democracy political grouping are. You really do need to check your facts.

BlitzKrieg

not according to ukip's own website

http://www.ukip.org/content/european-issues/1236-ukip-leaflets-for-irish-no-vote

vanla sighs

BlitzKrieg wrote: »

not according to ukip's own website

http://www.ukip.org/content/european-issues/1236-ukip-leaflets-for-irish-no-vote

UKIP are a constituent member party of the Freedom and Democracy political grouping, it is this group who are paying for the leaflets, not UKIP. It even says so in the link you provided......

K-9

vanla sighs wrote: »

UKIP are a constituent member party of the Freedom and Democracy political grouping, it is this group who are paying for the leaflets, not UKIP. It even says so in the link you provided......

They seem to apply QMV to their signatures on the leaflet.

Did every member of the Freedom & Democracy Group assent to this leaflet? Was there any vetoes?

Scofflaw

vanla sighs wrote: »

UKIP are a constituent member party of the Freedom and Democracy political grouping, it is this group who are paying for the leaflets, not UKIP. It even says so in the link you provided......

Yes, that's simply a case of UKIP producing a leaflet with European taxpayer's money.

Anyway, this is rapidly drifting off-topic. There's a thread for discussion of this leaflet already, and we can safely say that UKIP and the Catholic Church bear little or no relation to each other.

cordially,
Scofflaw

vanla sighs

Scofflaw wrote: »

Yes, that's simply a case of UKIP producing a leaflet with European taxpayer's money.

Anyway, this is rapidly drifting off-topic. There's a thread for discussion of this leaflet already, and we can safely say that UKIP and the Catholic Church bear little or no relation to each other.

cordially,
Scofflaw

Yes, the Freedom and Democracy group are perfectly entitled to produce leaflets with Europeans taxpayers money, after all European taxpayers elected them. Just as the EPP, PES and others are providing financing for the yes side.