Catholic Church backs Lisbon

sold · 17-09-2009 9:39pm #1

Good to see the church finally take a stance!, Rev Noel Treanor, Bishop of Down and Connor, told an Irish parliamentary committee on Wednesday that "a Catholic can, without reserve and in good conscience, vote Yes for the Lisbon Treaty"

meglome · 17-09-2009 9:43pm

sold wrote: »

Good to see the church finally take a stance!, Rev Noel Treanor, Bishop of Down and Connor, told an Irish parliamentary committee on Wednesday that "a Catholic can, without reserve and in good conscience, vote Yes for the Lisbon Treaty"

And as much as I don't like the catholic church you can be sure if there was really any possibility of abortion coming in with Lisbon they wouldn't be supporting it. **** you Cóir.

nayorleck114 · 17-09-2009 9:44pm

Yes, my gran said she will now vote yes aswell as most of her friends. Abortion was a big issue in the last referendum. Atleast the church has cleared the path to vote yes.

Corkfeen · 17-09-2009 9:44pm

Can't really see the churches stance changing most irish peoples opinion tbh.This may apply for older irish people I guess though. If we want to vote yes, we'll vote yes, vice versa.

Scofflaw · 17-09-2009 9:45pm

Corkfeen wrote: »

Can't really see the churches stance changing most irish peoples opinion tbh.This may apply for older irish people I guess though. If we want to vote yes, we'll vote yes, vice versa. This may apply for older irish people I guess though

You must have missed the leaflet.

cordially,
Scofflaw

Kev_ps3 · 17-09-2009 9:48pm

A foreign power endorsing another foreign power in our small country! Get them all out!!

Euro_Kraut · 17-09-2009 10:07pm

Just to be clear the Catholic Church is not advising people to vote Yes, rather they have stated that a Yes vote does not conflict with Catholicism.

Its a kick in the teeth for Coir. Good.

ei.sdraob · 18-09-2009 9:18am

Euro_Kraut wrote: »

Just to be clear the Catholic Church is not advising people to vote Yes, rather they have stated that a Yes vote does not conflict with Catholicism.

Its a kick in the teeth for Coir. Good.

Why do I imagine Coir now starting their own sect? thinks of mormons going door to door

meditraitor · 18-09-2009 9:21am

This can only be a positive thing........ The Catholic Church still hold some weight in a good percentage of the population....

This is the BBC

Lisbon 'fine by us' says bishop

It is not clear how far EU "guarantees" will sway Irish Catholics
A senior Irish Catholic bishop has said Roman Catholics can vote "Yes" to the Lisbon Treaty "in good conscience".

The EU treaty does not affect the legal position of abortion in the Republic of Ireland, Bishop Noel Treanor said.

Ireland's rejection of the treaty in a referendum last year was attributed in part to voters' concern that Lisbon might soften Irish anti-abortion laws.

A second Irish referendum will take place on 2 October. Nearly all the 27 EU member states have ratified Lisbon.

Rev Noel Treanor, Bishop of Down and Connor, told an Irish parliamentary committee on Wednesday that "a Catholic can, without reserve and in good conscience, vote Yes for the Lisbon Treaty".

"There are no grounds to justify a No vote in the Lisbon Treaty on the basis of specifically religious or ethical concerns.
"The Lisbon Treaty does not alter the legal position of abortion in Ireland. This is further assured by the legal guarantees (which will become protocols) secured by the Irish government," he said.

Official Church position

Bishop Treanor told the committee he had represented the Irish Bishops' Conference in Brussels for almost 20 years and was speaking with the support of Catholic primate Cardinal Sean Brady.

Since the last referendum the EU has provided legally binding "guarantees" that Lisbon will not affect Irish sovereignty over taxation, "family" issues - such as abortion, euthanasia and gay marriage - and the traditional Irish state neutrality.

Polls suggest most Irish voters will back the treaty second time round.

All EU member states must ratify the treaty for it to come into force.

The treaty is aimed at streamlining EU institutions, to improve decision-making in the enlarged 27-member bloc. Opponents say it undermines national sovereignty and concentrates too much power in Brussels.

ei.sdraob · 18-09-2009 9:31am

the catholic church is not the only one

some links

http://www.ashleymote.co.uk/?p=467

http://blog.irelandforeurope.ie/?p=770

http://www.catholicireland.net/pages/index.php?nd=2&art=2014

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/europe/8260836.stm (post above)

http://www.independent.ie/national-news/lisbon-treaty/antilisbon--groups-not-speaking-for-church-1888772.html

http://www.kandle.ie/2009/09/16/lisbon-treaty-bishop-treanor/

I begin by echoing that conviction. I state unequivocally that a Catholic can, without reserve and in good conscience, vote ‘Yes’ for the Lisbon Treaty. There are no grounds to justify a ‘No’ vote in the Lisbon Treaty on the basis of specifically religious or ethical concerns.

if this isnt a huge blow for Coir, i dont know what will be

humanji · 18-09-2009 9:33am

ei.sdraob wrote:

Why do I imagine Coir now starting their own sect? thinks of mormons going door to door

With their methods, I'd say they'd be better compared with Scientology.

To be honest, I kind of assume many old and religious people may now vote Yes because they see it as being what their church wants which, to me, is just as bad as voting No for the same reason.

ei.sdraob · 18-09-2009 10:03am

humanji wrote: »

With their methods, I'd say they'd be better compared with Scientology.

To be honest, I kind of assume many old and religious people may now vote Yes because they see it as being what their church wants which, to me, is just as bad as voting No for the same reason.

we better be careful what we say, with the new Blasphemy Bill and all in place

nayorleck114 · 18-09-2009 9:39pm

Kev_ps3 wrote: »

A foreign power endorsing another foreign power in our small country! Get them all out!!

Talking about foreign power, why is the UKIP party in Ireland? (they hate the Irish)

K-9 · 18-09-2009 9:45pm

I think there was a similar statement last time, so I don't think it will make a big difference.

vanla sighs · 19-09-2009 2:30am

sold wrote: »

Good to see the church finally take a stance!, Rev Noel Treanor, Bishop of Down and Connor, told an Irish parliamentary committee on Wednesday that "a Catholic can, without reserve and in good conscience, vote Yes for the Lisbon Treaty"

Really? Hmmm, the Catholic church has never once said it backs Lisbon. It said Catholics can vote yes for it if they want, they didn't say vote yes.

K-9 · 19-09-2009 2:41am

vanla sighs wrote: »

Really? Hmmm, the Catholic church has never once said it backs Lisbon. It said Catholics can vote yes for it if they want, they didn't say vote yes.

They said you can vote Yes with a clear conscience! That is extremely important in Catholic circles. It means a Yes will not bring in Abortion, Euthanasia et al!

It is very important in countering Coir's FUD. I don't think it will affect the vote in a big way, but it will counter Coir's arguments.

vanla sighs wrote: »

UKIP aren't. The Freedom & Democracy political grouping are. You really do need to check your facts.

You need to check the relevant thread on this forum, it is contained in my signature.. Some Members of the Freedom & Democracy Group have given the backing, of which the vast majority are UKIP.

Does QMV or a veto apply in this Group? Serious question, as it is SO important!

Scofflaw · 19-09-2009 3:53am

vanla sighs wrote: »

Hmmmm? Isn't this off topic? It's on page 1 of this thread.

An off-topic point is fine, but an off-topic discussion isn't. The only problem with the former is that they can generate the latter. They don't have to, though.

Anyway, posts moved to the thread on the UKIP leaflet.

moderately,
Scofflaw

philologos · 19-09-2009 4:11am

sold wrote: »

Good to see the church finally take a stance!, Rev Noel Treanor, Bishop of Down and Connor, told an Irish parliamentary committee on Wednesday that "a Catholic can, without reserve and in good conscience, vote Yes for the Lisbon Treaty"

Is it really good?

I mean most of the time people see any opinion from the Catholic Church on social matters / politics to be unwelcome? Is it only because they are saying what people want to hear that it is a good thing?

Catholic Church backs Lisbon

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