Metro North...What's happening??

DrFroggies

Hi Folks,

Does anyone know what the craic is with Metro North? Been looking at Transport 21 website and RPA website and from what i can make out there's not been much progress lately.

Is it still due to be completed by 2013 as was stated in 2008 (by Noel Dempsey i think) and when exactly do they intend to break ground?

Has anyone heard if the current economic situation has stalled the process?

Also does anyone know where i can find that media thing showing the stations etc)? it was like a little animated film going from St Stephens Green trough to O'Connell St etc - it used to be on the Transport 21 website but i can't find it any more.

Cheers
DrF.

I've put this post on the Dublin City thread as well...

Victor

The RPA have applied for permission to build (a railway order) An Bord Pleanála have asked for additional information.

Animation:
http://www.rpa.ie/en/projects/metro_airport_swords/construction/Pages/default.aspx
http://www.rpa.ie/PublishingImages/Metro%20North/MN%20RO%20OH%203D%20Flash%20Movies%20080409/Metro_North_Final_Animation.swf

DrFroggies

Victor wrote: »

The RPA have applied for permission to build (a railway order) An Bord Pleanála have asked for additional information.

Animation:
http://www.rpa.ie/en/projects/metro_airport_swords/construction/Pages/default.aspx
http://www.rpa.ie/PublishingImages/Metro%20North/MN%20RO%20OH%203D%20Flash%20Movies%20080409/Metro_North_Final_Animation.swf

Cheers mate - just wish they'd start breaking ground on the thing...i can't imagine them completing it by 2013 at this stage.

Nice one on those animations - they were what i was looking for - gotta say it does look like it'll be pretty impressive ;-)

meditraitor

http://www.fingal-independent.ie/news/metro-takes-step-forward-1918856.html

METRO North has taken another step forward after the Railway Procurement Agency (RPA) submitted further data on the scheme to the planning board. An Bord Pleanála (ABP) had requested additional information over the proposal to bring the line from the city centre to Swords, via Dublin Airport, and the RPA submitted files early this month.

It's the latest move in the journey towards the construction of the public-private partnership, following the announcement in the summer of the two consortia chosen for the final stage of selection.

Either Celtic Metro Group, made up of Barclays Private Equity, Obrascon Huarte Lain, Mitsui, Soares da Costa, Iridium Concesionesde Infraestructuras SA, CAF and MTR, or Metro Express, comprising Macquarie Capital, Global Via Infrastructuras, Allied Irish Bank, Bombardier and Transdev/RATP, will win the tender to construct the 17km line.

A funding structure for the scheme was approved in January 2008, while the RPA lodged copies of a Railway Order application with ABP in September 2008 and quotations on final specifications with the bidders are due to be agreed by the end of this year.

Construction work on the Metro is scheduled to begin in 2010, depending on the outcome of the planning and procurement process, creating 4,000 direct construction jobs, with a planned completion date of 2013.

Local Fianna Fáil TD, Michael Kennedy, called on the planning board to complete the oral hearing proceedings as soon as possible, so a decision could be made early next year.

'Metro North will provide major employment for the building sector, creating 7,000 direct and indirect jobs,' Deputy Kennedy said.

'Up to 37,000 jobs could be created in the new Metro North economic corridor from Ballymun to Swords. It is so important that we push ahead with this innovative project.'

Metro North will comprise of 17 stations - 9 underground and 8 surface - including stops at Airside Retail Park, Swords Pavilions, Seatown, Estuary and Belinstown.

Bus interchanges will incorporated, while 2,600 park and ride spaces will provided between Belinstown, Fosterstown and Dardistown.

Journeys from Swords to the city will take 25 minutes, with a Metro leaving every four minutes at peak, increasing to every two minutes, as demand grows.

Might be time to buy a gaff in Swords;)

Alan Farrell

meditraitor wrote: »

http://www.fingal-independent.ie/news/metro-takes-step-forward-1918856.html



Might be time to buy a gaff in Swords;)

This is a column filler.

I doubt we'll see this happening for several years.

meditraitor

Alan Farrell wrote: »

This is a column filler.

I doubt we'll see this happening for several years.

Im disappointed about that, Its a great project and the Jobs are badly needed......

Alan Farrell

meditraitor wrote: »

Im disappointed about that, Its a great project and the Jobs are badly needed......

I think its more than a great project, its a critical project which we've been planning in Development plan terms for 4 or 5 years but we can't afford it, at the moment.

If Swords is going to grow, Metro has to come.

Paulw

I think funding/global recession/credit crunch have put a serious delay on many big projects, like this.

Hopefully things will kick off.

Martron

one of the companies that i work for on the m50 were supposed to be in for it but its seemnigly shelved until end of 2010.

ihatewallies

MN is NOT shelved - that's your pub transport economist talk.
There's no mystery here.
MN is a PPP and will cost the Gov very little until built in 2016 - so money is not a factor. And before anybody says the 2 billion capital is difficult to raise - the Gov can facilitate the successful consortium through the EIB and other sources if that is an issue next year - though the capital markets are slowly recovering anyway.

The delay is with ABP - who are floundering a bit since they have never dealt with a project as complex as this in the history of the state. It's been 1 year in the planning process now. PP is expected in the 1st quarter next year and then thing s will start moving.

LeoB

I think things will pick up. This will be great when it happens. Will there be a facility for Airport express Metro. Was on the Stansted express recently and it was great service.

Martron

oh it will be fantastic.

for loads of reasons.

roll on next year. i think this whole place will be a different story

DrFroggies

ihatewallies wrote: »

MN is NOT shelved - that's your pub transport economist talk.
There's no mystery here.
MN is a PPP and will cost the Gov very little until built in 2016 - so money is not a factor. And before anybody says the 2 billion capital is difficult to raise - the Gov can facilitate the successful consortium through the EIB and other sources if that is an issue next year - though the capital markets are slowly recovering anyway.

The delay is with ABP - who are floundering a bit since they have never dealt with a project as complex as this in the history of the state. It's been 1 year in the planning process now. PP is expected in the 1st quarter next year and then thing s will start moving.

Glad to hear it! But what's the craic with the different completion dates? Obviously i'm hoping for 2013 as seeing the thing up and running in 3 years would certainly be preferable than a whopping 6 years...saying that, given the size of the project and the time it's taken to get this far...i have to assume that 2016 is the more likely date.

Read somewhere that phase 3 of the Pavillions (which seems pretty extensive) will be getting under way depending on the Metro outcome.

Can't wait till its completed though i'm dreading the distruption construction will cause between Swords and the City Centre.

Victor

DrFroggies wrote: »

Can't wait till its completed though i'm dreading the distruption construction will cause between Swords and the City Centre.

South of the Swords Bypass, the only disruption would be at the petrol Station at Fosterstown and hte next bit would be Drumcondra Station (off road), then Parnell Square (on road).

Beasty

Just received the following message from Skerries Community Association:

"An Bord Pleanála has confirmed that the Oral Hearings for the Metro North project will re-open on November 30th at 11am in the Anna Livia Room in the Gresham Hotel.
Oral representations from interested parties will take in the order of 22/23 days to complete. An Bord Pleanála hopes to be in a position to make a formal decision on Metro North before the Summer of 2010."

ihatewallies

You have to think now that MN is deliberately being delayed.
The RPA was originally talking (Autumn 2008) about getting PP in the Summer of this year.
The 2 selected consortia have been told that the BAFO documents will not be issued until the end of 2010.
This might be timed to coincide with the resolution of the inevitable appeals.
Can't see construction starting until well into 2011.

DrFroggies

More news on Metro North due i think in Oct...from what i was told in Fingal County Council. And i think the woman there mentioned that after that it will be a definite (well if the news is good and whats expected).

Been thinking though if the current government get kicked out doesn't it seem likely that whoever gets in will shelve this to make cuts?

Saying that it's probably just as likely that this government would drop it given half a chance.

Wish they'd broken ground on the whole thing.:rolleyes:

DrFroggies

So now Labour say if they get into power (which seems likely) they'll probably shelve the project.

SIGH!:mad:

neris

whats the chances they shelve the whole thing for a time and the parties who tendered for it will take the government/council to court for a wad of cash for some stupid reason and doing S F A

Sizzler

Seriously folks, self preservation aside and lose the selfishness, does NCD really need the Metro North right now? Interested to hear people's opinions.

The latest edition of the North County Leader was littered with bolloxology from the local political drones, blasting out the usual bullshít bingo lines such as "comepetitiveness" "jobs" "enterprise" "attractiveness" "essential" etc etc.

Just my opinion but where the metro is going to serve is already pretty damn well served with bus links? Its not as if you cant get to the city centre from Swords or the airport for the lack of buses! All the other proposed pit stops are also well served with a litany of bus routes, granted the bus isnt everybody's cup of tea but its hardly a backward way of getting around Dublin, its fairly efficient on the whole imho.

Apart from the obvious construction jobs it would create I cant see where the thousands of jobs that are being eluded to are going to come from. Cries of competitiveness is pure soundbyte material, this will do nothing for competitiveness for the area, cutting utility overheads, enterprise grants or labour costs would do more for the NCD economy than the metro.

I think its a great story for the likes of Michael Kennedy,. James O'Reilly to be pedalling because if it goes through they will look for a mighty slap on the back because they helped bring it to the people or if it goes t*ts up they can say they did their best....win win for them. I'd have more respect for a politician personally if they drifted from the norm and challenged the actual benefits. I'm willing to lose out on this Rolls Royce project if it means the country being better off as a whole. Lets face it we couldnt muster this when the place was awash with cash but we are willing to do it now when the place is near bankrupt and the sad reality is there is proving to be less and less of a need for it in footfall terms due to the high rate of unemployment in the north county.

neris

Theyve made a bo**ix of swords village as it is since they built a shopping centre slap bang in the midddle of the town but swords is a major population area in Dublin and large cities need good quick transport links to the sububs. Swords and NCD will only develop bigger populations over decades residentialy and commercially. In the short term it seems financially excessive however we have a very short sighted view in this country and we need to think beyond our life times so in reality it will be done (or somthing similar done) now or in the future so why not do it now be far cheaper now then when the economy steadys out

LeoB

Sizzler makes fair points.

I think at this stage it will be shelved. I am not sure we ever needed it. I do think however the Airport need to be served by some type of rail system.

There is an improved bus service in North Dublin, well so the users tell me but I think maybe every 2 hours there should be a 33x which goes straight to Dublin after Blakes X.

Health and Education in my opinion are far more important than this project.

ragg

Sizzler wrote: »

Seriously folks, self preservation aside and lose the selfishness, does NCD really need the Metro North right now? Interested to hear people's opinions.

The latest edition of the North County Leader was littered with bolloxology from the local political drones, blasting out the usual bullshít bingo lines such as "comepetitiveness" "jobs" "enterprise" "attractiveness" "essential" etc etc.

Just my opinion but where the metro is going to serve is already pretty damn well served with bus links? Its not as if you cant get to the city centre from Swords or the airport for the lack of buses! All the other proposed pit stops are also well served with a litany of bus routes, granted the bus isnt everybody's cup of tea but its hardly a backward way of getting around Dublin, its fairly efficient on the whole imho.

Apart from the obvious construction jobs it would create I cant see where the thousands of jobs that are being eluded to are going to come from. Cries of competitiveness is pure soundbyte material, this will do nothing for competitiveness for the area, cutting utility overheads, enterprise grants or labour costs would do more for the NCD economy than the metro.

I think its a great story for the likes of Michael Kennedy,. James O'Reilly to be pedalling because if it goes through they will look for a mighty slap on the back because they helped bring it to the people or if it goes t*ts up they can say they did their best....win win for them. I'd have more respect for a politician personally if they drifted from the norm and challenged the actual benefits. I'm willing to lose out on this Rolls Royce project if it means the country being better off as a whole. Lets face it we couldnt muster this when the place was awash with cash but we are willing to do it now when the place is near bankrupt and the sad reality is there is proving to be less and less of a need for it in footfall terms due to the high rate of unemployment in the north county.

Your points, while fair, are a little short sighted. Dublin city and its approach roads cant get any bigger.
They are all operating at close to capacity at peak times. A bus from swords to the city is about 40 minutes, population will continue to increase, more busses will be needed. Not to mention an increase the increase in private cars that will inevitably happen.

Dublin airport is woefully served by public transport, and with the opening of T2 this already poor service will have to cater for more passengers.

The countries finances don't really have an affect on a project like this, it could be built on a 20 year bond, by the time it falls due, it will have paid for itself.

All that aside, think of the quality of life aspects that it will bring. Lissenhall to st stephens green in about 15 minutes, most people from swords would get to the the quays in about 45 minutes. I'm willing to bet that people from rush - malahide would all benefit time wise from this.

Sizzler

ragg wrote: »

Your points, while fair, are a little short sighted. Dublin city and its approach roads cant get any bigger.
They are all operating at close to capacity at peak times. A bus from swords to the city is about 40 minutes, population will continue to increase, more busses will be needed. Not to mention an increase the increase in private cars that will inevitably happen.

Dublin airport is woefully served by public transport, and with the opening of T2 this already poor service will have to cater for more passengers.

The countries finances don't really have an affect on a project like this, it could be built on a 20 year bond, by the time it falls due, it will have paid for itself.

All that aside, think of the quality of life aspects that it will bring. Lissenhall to st stephens green in about 15 minutes, most people from swords would get to the the quays in about 45 minutes. I'm willing to bet that people from rush - malahide would all benefit time wise from this.

Prime Time said last night that based on current estimates the swords express would get to town quicker than the metro so not sure where your 15 mins is coming from?

T2 is NOT going to deliver what it was originally planned for (sadly) so Im not sure there is a pressing need for a rail link for more (?) passengers as you claim, Dub airport passenger numbers have been dropping like a stone for the last 2 years.

I agree that in the long term this should be looked at again but you I seriously dont buy all the propaganda of neccessity behind it being peddled by the local politicians but maybe thats just me. A nice to have rather than essential.

ragg

Sizzler wrote: »

Prime Time said last night that based on current estimates the swords express would get to town quicker than the metro so not sure where your 15 mins is coming from?

The travel time for metro North is either 13 or 17 minutes (cant remember which). I wouldn't be too pushed on what primetimes producers have to say, that is the time that the RPA are saying.

Sizzler wrote: »

T2 is NOT going to deliver what it was originally planned for (sadly) so Im not sure there is a pressing need for a rail link for more (?) passengers as you claim,

What are you basing this on? According to everyone, Michael o'leary(who wanted it untill he was told it wouldn't be ryanair only) included ,who i think is your source for this, a second terminal was the most important thing this country could build. It's not even open yet and now it's being rubbished. Makes you wonder about the irish mentality.

Sizzler wrote: »

Dub airport passenger numbers have been dropping like a stone for the last 2 years.

Again, short sighted, I cant remember the numbers now, but dublin airport was handling about 30 million passengers a year and that was in 2006 or something. things have dropped off but from peak to trough, i bet it's much less of a swing than you think.

Sizzler wrote: »

I agree that in the long term this should be looked at again but you I seriously dont buy all the propaganda of neccessity behind it being peddled by the local politicians but maybe thats just me. A nice to have rather than essential.

Thats your right, im not telling you what to think nor are the politicians. It's a nice too have now, in 10 years it will be a neccessity.
What i will say is, imagine Dublin without the luas.. It's hard to even imagine isn't it.... remember the fuss that was kicked up over it being built? Same goes for the dart, there were some serious hate directed at that too.

In Summary, in my opinion, If we can afford 50 billion for the banks, we can find a couple of billion to plan for our countries future

LeoB

It seems we make an awful lot of mistakes in most of our major projects.

M50 was built to small and way to close to the city. They were advised at the time to build it bigger and which was laughed at, we didnt need it!! Also to move it about 2 to 3 miles further out from the city, Start between Swords and Airport and follow the same line out around Blanchardstown, Lucan, Tallaght and Clondalkin. and IIRC it was suggested we keep most industry outside the M50 like these big industrial parks
Dart should have been extended out to Balbriggan not just to Nora Owen's or G.V Wrights patch
Baldonnel should be opened up for some civilian flights like Bergamo in Italy and some of the French airports. This would I believe would benefit Dublin Airport as much as Metro North by taking some pressure off at peak times. Small craft could be used to service some U.K Airports

I can see why people want the Metro North but wonder at the ability to deliver it on time and on budget.

Look at the figures from Aviva against some of the stadiums built in England and we pay nearly double. Why?

ragg

LeoB wrote: »

It seems we make an awful lot of mistakes in most of our major projects.

M50 was built to small and way to close to the city. They were advised at the time to build it bigger and which was laughed at, we didnt need it!! Also to move it about 2 to 3 miles further out from the city, Start between Swords and Airport and follow the same line out around Blanchardstown, Lucan, Tallaght and Clondalkin. and IIRC it was suggested we keep most industry outside the M50 like these big industrial parks
Dart should have been extended out to Balbriggan not just to Nora Owen's or G.V Wrights patch
Baldonnel should be opened up for some civilian flights like Bergamo in Italy and some of the French airports. This would I believe would benefit Dublin Airport as much as Metro North by taking some pressure off at peak times. Small craft could be used to service some U.K Airports

I can see why people want the Metro North but wonder at the ability to deliver it on time and on budget.

Look at the figures from Aviva against some of the stadiums built in England and we pay nearly double. Why?

Would agree with all of this. However, A poor tender process and diabolical project management shouldn't really stop something like this before it starts

Bluetonic

ragg wrote: »

All that aside, think of the quality of life aspects that it will bring. Lissenhall to st stephens green in about 15 minutes, most people from swords would get to the the quays in about 45 minutes.

ragg wrote: »

The travel time for metro North is either 13 or 17 minutes (cant remember which). I wouldn't be too pushed on what primetimes producers have to say, that is the time that the RPA are saying.

RPA wrote: »

Using underground, surface and elevated tracks, Metro North will operate from St Stephen's Green, via Dublin Airport, to Belinstown, north of Swords. An estimated 35 million passengers a year will travel on this service, with trains every four minutes, increasing to every two minutes as the demand builds. The journey time from St Stephen's Green to Dublin Airport will be in the region of 20 minutes. The journey time from Belinstown to St Stephen's Green will be approximately 30 minutes.

That's approx 30 minutes from Lissenhall to St Stephen Green.

Source

ragg

Bluetonic wrote: »

That's approx 30 minutes from Lissenhall to St Stephen Green.

Source

Jesus, when i heard lissenhall I assumed it was going to be seastown round about or there abouts. I was going on a mates info who had worked on the early stages of the project... By the looks of the map you linked.it's going to be up nearer to blakes cross or at least turvey avenue???

BUILD IT NOW, BUIlD IT NOW :P

Victor

LeoB wrote: »

Baldonnel should be opened up for some civilian flights like Bergamo in Italy and some of the French airports. This would I believe would benefit Dublin Airport as much as Metro North by taking some pressure off at peak times. Small craft could be used to service some U.K Airports

No. Modern airlines work on the basis of hubs. Move some of the operations to Baldonnel and you remove interconnection and lose a significant chunk of business. You would no longer be able to do Donegal-Dublin-Rome or New York-Dublin-Newcatle.

Brian?

Bluetonic wrote: »

That's approx 30 minutes from Lissenhall to St Stephen Green.

Source

That looks great.

If they have any sense though they should continue metro west to meet up with the Maynooth line, that way people coming from the north west of Ireland don't have to go into the city to get to the airport.