Voting?

Davidius

Cloned Alien wrote: »

And the NO side know what their are talking about, very unlikely.

Hence why I used the word 'either'. I'm fully aware that No voters voted based on nonsense reasons but I don't feel it's fair that Yes voters choose to ignore their own share of uneducated voting. We all know the treaty would not have been put through again had there been a Yes vote despite that one could apply the same reasoning for a 2nd vote.

Ireland in Europe that functions efficently unlike it is now under Nice is only beneficial to Ireland and goodwill towards Ireland for a yes cant hurt either.

Wouldn't voting based on the possibility of goodwill being shown be somewhat foolish and a bit irresponsible? Ideally you should vote based on the treaty itself and that alone not "You scratch my back, I'll scratch yours" especially because the EU really doesn't have to do anything once they have what they need and likely don't have any intentions to either.

There's a lot wrong with using the Lisbon Treaty as a bargaining chip, regardless if you're voting yes or no.

The No campagin just scaremonger anyway.

The Yes campaign feeds off people's recession fears by advertising it as the magical recession beater. That's no better.

sock puppet

Davidius wrote: »

Hence why I used the word 'either'. I'm fully aware that No voters voted based on nonsense reasons but I don't feel it's fair that Yes voters choose to ignore their own share of uneducated voting. We all know the treaty would not have been put through again had there been a Yes vote despite that one could apply the same reasoning for a 2nd vote.


Wouldn't voting based on the possibility of goodwill being shown be somewhat foolish and a bit irresponsible? Ideally you should vote based on the treaty itself and that alone not "You scratch my back, I'll scratch yours" especially because the EU really doesn't have to do anything once they have what they need and likely don't have any intentions to either.

There's a lot wrong with using the Lisbon Treaty as a bargaining chip, regardless if you're voting yes or no.


The Yes campaign feeds off people's recession fears by advertising it as the magical recession beater. That's no better.

Possibility? The government are relying on the ECB for NAMA to work. I've a very limited understanding of it but from what I gather, the ECB will issue loans to the banks backed by government bonds. Now I can't pretend to know what will happen if we vote no again, but without the EU bailing us out we would be totally ****ed. Your suggestion that the EU doesn't care about Ireland's future isn't true at all.

Cloned Alien

The Yes campaign feeds off people's recession fears by advertising it as the magical recession beater. That's no better.

and the no side do something similar in lieing, for example Joe Higgins manipulating the charter of fundamnetal rights to suite his own arguement. Choir arguing that the minium wage will be €1.84 LIE!!! we control our own minimum wage. Thirdly Joe Higgins say Voting no will privates health and education UTTER RUBBISH. We alrerady have the option being private or public through our own Gov policies

D4RK ONION

Thought maybe ye'd like to read something that isn't Biased off it's balls.
http://www.lisbontreaty2009.ie/lisbon_treaty_european_parliament.html

Seloth

Right I'm gonna start off by saying I'm hudly interested in politics and I DO want to get involved when I'm grown up

I turned 18 in august but I'm not going to vote.

Why?Well for one I dont know much about it either way but thoe vote No posters are getting more and more rediculouse.What annoyed me was when ever I'm coming or going in and out town the only posters that seem to be out in the country side are the ones about agriculuture..wtf!,Like my dad is a farmer yeah but most of people that live out here arent...and even so agriculture shouldnt be jsut the main worry if there is going to be a problem...jesus not a single other poster for it.I also saw one...well it wasnt even a poster it was white spray paint saying vote know on a large wall ona main road that you cna barley see,I love to think of the person who did it as ne of those self declared wannabe anarchists.

But yeah,Another reason is I still feel you young to make such an important decision,yeah Im a "legal"adult now but in all fairness everyone still see's us as kids..and wo can blame them were only 18!.

Just to throw in,I saw a band on bebo and I laughed my arse off when I saw some one say"Get that ****er BIFFO OUT...HE'S ****E,BRING BACK BERTIE,ALL WAS GOOD WHEN HE RAN THINGS!"...What a tool lol,it was a scobe girls page anyway

Stev_o

Seloth wrote: »

Right I'm gonna start off by saying I'm hudly interested in politics and I DO want to get involved when I'm grown up

I turned 18 in august but I'm not going to vote.

Why?Well for one I dont know much about it either way but thoe vote No posters are getting more and more rediculouse.What annoyed me was when ever I'm coming or going in and out town the only posters that seem to be out in the country side are the ones about agriculuture..wtf!,Like my dad is a farmer yeah but most of people that live out here arent...and even so agriculture shouldnt be jsut the main worry if there is going to be a problem...jesus not a single other poster for it.I also saw one...well it wasnt even a poster it was white spray paint saying vote know on a large wall ona main road that you cna barley see,I love to think of the person who did it as ne of those self declared wannabe anarchists.

But yeah,Another reason is I still feel you young to make such an important decision,yeah Im a "legal"adult now but in all fairness everyone still see's us as kids..and wo can blame them were only 18!.

Just to throw in,I saw a band on bebo and I laughed my arse off when I saw some one say"Get that ****er BIFFO OUT...HE'S ****E,BRING BACK BERTIE,ALL WAS GOOD WHEN HE RAN THINGS!"...What a tool lol,it was a scobe girls page anyway

Tbh both sides are desperately making up stuff to try secure the vote, id call whatever vote that wins void dew to the massive misinformation spouted by both sides.

Personally ill be voting no, manly because i don't believe in the future of the EU it's policies can't work to our benefit in the direction it's going case in point Dell moving to Lodz in Poland and receiving a EU grant dew to the area having a huge % unemployed. You can't just help out a country like us develop a good economy revolving around low costs and then go and out and under cut us in a another country that has just joined the EU.

The fact is we will loose alot more jobs to Eastern countries in the future and chances are MNC's that move there will be helped out by EU grants. Sadly we don't live in a world where there are enough jobs for everyone and realistically the best we'v done is when we'v riden the EU for all it's worth and we will be at our worst when they look at us to pay towards boosting these countries in the east that will see many large MNC's move to.

sock puppet

Stev_o wrote: »

Tbh both sides are desperately making up stuff to try secure the vote, id call whatever vote that wins void dew to the massive misinformation spouted by both sides.

Personally ill be voting no, manly because i don't believe in the future of the EU it's policies can't work to our benefit in the direction it's going case in point Dell moving to Lodz in Poland and receiving a EU grant dew to the area having a huge % unemployed. You can't just help out a country like us develop a good economy revolving around low costs and then go and out and under cut us in a another country that has just joined the EU.

The fact is we will loose alot more jobs to Eastern countries in the future and chances are MNC's that move there will be helped out by EU grants. Sadly we don't live in a world where there are enough jobs for everyone and realistically the best we'v done is when we'v riden the EU for all it's worth and we will be at our worst when they look at us to pay towards boosting these countries in the east that will see many large MNC's move to.

In fairness why on earth would a company locate a computer building plant in an expensive country like Ireland? It just doesn't make any sense. Either the plant moves to Poland or eventually it'll close down. The No campaigners all want us to leave the EU. What then? Coir seem to think that between farming and fishing we'll have plenty of money. Sure weren't the 20's a great time for us.

Stev_o

sock puppet wrote: »

In fairness why on earth would a company locate a computer building plant in an expensive country like Ireland? It just doesn't make any sense. Either the plant moves to Poland or eventually it'll close down. The No campaigners all want us to leave the EU. What then? Coir seem to think that between farming and fishing we'll have plenty of money. Sure weren't the 20's a great time for us.

See during the 80's we had cheap Engineering and Sciences students coming out form UL and UCC. Our corporation tax is also one of the lowest in Europe at 12.5%, the EU pretty much built the the facilites for Dell so they spent feck all in the process and at the time So the likes of Dell and Intel established plants here on those basis. But they really couldn't give a f*ck about us, Dell has it's Euro HQ in Ireland just cause of the low corp tax despite having less then 100 workers employed in this country, when they EU helped out Poland they saw it as a easy way of cost cutting.

What happens now when the Eastern blocks starting seeing the effects of EU grants? They ll under cut us at every cost we can't compete with their cheap labour and EU benefits. Then what are we left with? Fisheries that have species on the verge of extinction and agricultural products that no one wants to buy.

We aren't a major European country we have little if no cards to negotiate with against the other major countries in the EU. We are in a catch 22 situation here tbh we are f*cked if we do f*cked if we don't.

sock puppet

Stev_o wrote: »

See during the 80's we had cheap Engineering and Sciences students coming out form UL and UCC. Our corporation tax is also one of the lowest in Europe at 12.5%, the EU pretty much built the the facilites for Dell so they spent feck all in the process and at the time So the likes of Dell and Intel established plants here on those basis. But they really couldn't give a f*ck about us, Dell has it's Euro HQ in Ireland just cause of the low corp tax despite having less then 100 workers employed in this country, when they EU helped out Poland they saw it as a easy way of cost cutting.

What happens now when the Eastern blocks starting seeing the effects of EU grants? They ll under cut us at every cost we can't compete with their cheap labour and EU benefits. Then what are we left with? Fisheries that have species on the verge of extinction and agricultural products that no one wants to buy.

We aren't a major European country we have little if no cards to negotiate with against the other major countries in the EU. We are in a catch 22 situation here tbh we are f*cked if we do f*cked if we don't.

Oh I know why they came here. I'm pointing out that it's inevitable that they leave. Also no need to be so gloomy. This isn't just happeneing to Ireland. We're just going to have to rely less on manufacturing like every other country.

jumpguy

Metal_Princess wrote: »

I was under the impression we lived in a democracy

how is this so when we, the people are asked to vote twice on the same referendum to which we already voted NO to just because our governmeant are a bunch of selfish idiotic assholes wanting to line their pockets without a second thought for the effects this will have on the ordinary people, and without giving us any new information? just lies and promices of a better future? to get out of the recession? be one with europe?

no more free education, no more neutrality, lower basic wages and oh yes the best part...ireland will have practicly no say in anything that is passed through the EU our vote couts for something minimal like 000.7%

last time i checked

it was against the IRISH CONSTITUTION (yes it is written in their go do some research if you dont believe me, written in LAW ) to make to people vote twice on the same referendum and that the peoples vote is law and final

Did you completely ignore the legally binding guarantees? Do you think it's fair that a small little country with a population the size of London (approx. 5 million) gets the same say as a country with 160 million citizens or more? No, it's not fair.

Now here we are, the best one to me. Explain to me exactly how how education is no longer going to be free after Lisbon? Funnily enough, free primary and secondary education IS a part of the constitution. I would've thought with all your "research" into the constitution you might've known that.
Neutrality is guaranteed under the legally binding agreements. Personally, I'm disappointed we'll still be in such a state. I'm in favour of an EU army, especially in today's world. It'd give Ireland alot more sway military-wise.

Lower basic wages? What?! It's the most ridiculous thing I've heard in the no campaign.



It isn't against the Irish constitution to have 2 of the same referendums. Can you quote the part of it you think says this? I'd love to see it.


Why oh why can't we vote at 16? I know more about Lisbon than at least 20% of over 30 year olds.

suitcasepink

jumpguy wrote: »

Why oh why can't we vote at 16? I know more about Lisbon than at least 20% of over 30 year olds.

Well if Ireland picks the wrong anwser again(:rolleyes:) you might get the chance.

Deise Tom

Anyone get the feeling that the outcome of the vote today will be alot closer than most think or even another majority No vote.

jumpguy

Deise Tom wrote: »

Anyone get the feeling that the outcome of the vote today will be alot closer than most think or even another majority No vote.

I could predict it the last time, the no campaign picked up serious slack, got creative, played on people's basic fears and emotions, basically played dirty. Look at the no campaign this time around. Dublin is COVERED in those eye-catching Cóir heart-shaped posters, full of dubious messages.
Today, my friend told me his mother was voting "no". I asked why and he said "cause she doesn't want me to join the EU army". Dear God....a misinterpretation of information, from the no campaign!

The yes campaign has played it too honest, and should've played it like the no campaign. The no campaign has poster's full of children's faces, and telling us minimum wages will be 1.84c . They also lack the creativity of the no campaign.

I would be only mildly surprised if the no campaign won tbh.

sock puppet

jumpguy wrote: »

I could predict it the last time, the no campaign picked up serious slack, got creative, played on people's basic fears and emotions, basically played dirty. Look at the no campaign this time around. Dublin is COVERED in those eye-catching Cóir heart-shaped posters, full of dubious messages.
Today, my friend told me his mother was voting "no". I asked why and he said "cause she doesn't want me to join the EU army". Dear God....a misinterpretation of information, from the no campaign!

The yes campaign has played it too honest, and should've played it like the no campaign. The no campaign has poster's full of children's faces, and telling us minimum wages will be 1.84c . They also lack the creativity of the no campaign.

I would be only mildly surprised if the no campaign won tbh.

The problem I saw with the No campaign this time round they didn't try and disguise their hatred of the EU. The last time they all said along the lines of "Oh we're in favour of the EU we just think Ireland can do better than Lisbon" whereas this time they've all made it pretty clear that they just don't want to be in the EU. The fact is no matter what the contents of the Lisbon Treaty were they all would have opposed it.

Davidius

I thought the doomsday posters were hilarious. Though I think to say that the Yes campaign was being honest is a bit of a lie.

D4RK ONION

http://www.irishtimes.com/
There's a fantastic map of which counties(sp?) are voting what way there. Updated in real time. Yes is kicking proverbial arse.

Stev_o

jumpguy wrote: »

The yes campaign has played it too honest, and should've played it like the no campaign. The no campaign has poster's full of children's faces, and telling us minimum wages will be 1.84c . They also lack the creativity of the no campaign.

I would be only mildly surprised if the no campaign won tbh.

I expect 20,000 jobs to be announced come Monday or ill demand you reverse this statement and say that the Yes campaign did as much as the No campaigning in harnessing the fear of the recession.

Fad

D4RK ONION wrote: »

http://www.irishtimes.com/
There's a fantastic map of which counties(sp?) are voting what way there. Updated in real time. Yes is kicking proverbial arse.

Can we vote Donegal out of Ireland, do we really need them.

spoonbadger

Metal_Princess wrote: »

I was under the impression we lived in a democracy

how is this so when we, the people are asked to vote twice on the same referendum to which we already voted NO to just because our governmeant are a bunch of selfish idiotic assholes wanting to line their pockets without a second thought for the effects this will have on the ordinary people, and without giving us any new information? just lies and promices of a better future? to get out of the recession? be one with europe?

no more free education, no more neutrality, lower basic wages and oh yes the best part...ireland will have practicly no say in anything that is passed through the EU our vote couts for something minimal like 000.7%

last time i checked

it was against the IRISH CONSTITUTION (yes it is written in their go do some research if you dont believe me, written in LAW ) to make to people vote twice on the same referendum and that the peoples vote is law and final

How many more times will they push us untill they get the yes that so desperatly crave?

To spit on the history of our freedom? On the people who campaigned and fought to make ireland a free democratic country ??

where is our free ireland today?
it is being burned to the ground
and we shall once again stand back and watch it burn

Errrr, so the divorce vote is unconstitutional?. K, i'll go tell everyone that they're divorces have been retroactively voided...

And it's not voting on the same treaty, it's been altered since Lisbon 1.

Also, where did you get this crap about education/neutrality/wages?. This kind of pathetic misinformation is what your side has been clinging to through both campaigns. Sadly, the gullible peons who are too lazy to do their own research are happy to listen to this extremist crap. There should be some kind of common sense requirement before being allowed to vote.

Metal_Princess wrote:

ireland will have practicly no say in anything that is passed through the EU our vote couts for something minimal like 000.7%

You mean 0.8%?. Those extra zeroes you threw in have no effect on that statistic. Like many of the No-vote's tactics, they just confuse people who dont know better.

I guess there should be a basic maths requirement before voting too....

suitcasepink

I just don't understand why the time we vote no we have to vote again but since we voted yes theres no way going to be a third referendum.

I'll be honest now and say i know very little about it but I thinks its quite weird from what I grasp.

I saw my favourite Lisbon poster on the way home today! It wa s ano campaign poster and it was offical but included a cursing word and the most unflattering photo of the man himself. In fairness it was kinda mean.

Stev_o

Tbh if we weren't in a recession id bet that the No vote would of won a second time.

soccymonster

deise_girl wrote: »

I just don't understand why the time we vote no we have to vote again but since we voted yes theres no way going to be a third referendum.

I'll be honest now and say i know very little about it but I thinks its quite weird from what I grasp.

I saw my favourite Lisbon poster on the way home today! It wa s ano campaign poster and it was offical but included a cursing word and the most unflattering photo of the man himself. In fairness it was kinda mean.

Same here .

Oh, my favourite poster is one on the border of Clarecastle and ennis at the roundabout where the yes campaign poster saying "pat the cope says yes!" is spray painted into "pat the cope says yes no, wan*er".

:pac:


haha, cracks me up every time :P

Davidius

spoonbadger, was the treaty itself not exactly the same as it was before? The only 'changes' I've heard of were those to do with the guarantees on things such as abortion etc. which have nothing to do with the treaty.

Anyhow, I can't help but notice the smug and condescending nature of many 'Yes' voters*. The honest truth is, voting 'Yes' does not make you any smarter or any better than anybody else. In fact, I'm very much willing to bet that most 'Yes' voters were voting for reasons such as "Staying in the EU" and "Instant recovery", not to mention "It'll give me an unfounded sense of superior intellect so I can pretend that I'm better than others even though I'm just as much of a moron as everybody else".

That said, I didn't vote and was a bit Yes leaning towards the end but felt as though having not fully studied and understood the treaty, it wasn't my place. Which to be fair, I don't think that many voters did either, Yes or No.

*And I'm not talking about here specifically.

EDIT:
And yes, anybody with a bit of a cynicism in them knows full well the vote was mainly recession motivated.

suitcasepink

soccymonster wrote: »

Same here .

Oh, my favourite poster is one on the border of Clarecastle and ennis at the roundabout where the yes campaign poster saying "pat the cope says yes!" is spray painted into "pat the cope says yes no, wan*er".

:pac:


haha, cracks me up every time :P

This one said 'What a load of 'B******, its the same treaty.' But I couldn't beleve it was offical I didnt think you'd be allowed write that!! And then the picture the poor man had this big, cheesy grin with his thumbs up. As funny as it was it's actually horrible to him.

sock puppet

Stev_o wrote: »

Tbh if we weren't in a recession id bet that the No vote would of won a second time.

Maybe it's taken a recession for people to realise just how crucial the EU and their support is to our economic recovery.

deise_girl wrote: »

This one said 'What a load of 'B******, its the same treaty.' But I couldn't beleve it was offical I didnt think you'd be allowed write that!! And then the picture the poor man had this big, cheesy grin with his thumbs up. As funny as it was it's actually horrible to him.

It said "Never Mind the Bollocks". It's the title of an album by the Sex Pistols so I'd assume that's why they used it.

Stev_o

sock puppet wrote: »

Maybe it's taken a recession for people to realise just how crucial the EU and their support is to our economic recovery.


.

Did we just join the EU today? This recession has been going on for some time yet i haven't seen the EU bail us out of it. Where in the treaty does it say that the EU shall now provide economic recovery to member states?

suitcasepink

I'm really awaiting to see what happens from this Treaty.. I've scared myslef into thinking one thing if 'yes' was passed, so I'm terrified of that!
But what is Europe really going to do for Ireland,why would these big countries care about us?? I think people were scared that we were going to get bullyed out of Europe if we voted no and that we'd be stuck on our own. But.... I dunno I think there could be change for some big countries but I can see Irleand changing very, very little.

But again I'll repeat I really don't know much about Lisbon at all.

Stev_o

deise_girl wrote: »

I'm really awaiting to see what happens from this Treaty.. I've scared myslef into thinking one thing if 'yes' was passed, so I'm terrified of that!
But what is Europe really going to do for Ireland,why would these big countries care about us?? I think people were scared that we were going to get bullyed out of Europe if we voted no and that we'd be stuck on our own. But.... I dunno I think there could be change for some big countries but I can see Irleand changing very, very little.

But again I'll repeat I really don't know much about Lisbon at all.

Sweet f*ck all will happen and the inefficient EU colonial machine will march on trying to secure Turkey a place in the near future.

Mean ffs was watching Sky who were suggest Tony Blair as the first EU president, brilliant we already have one incompetent leader in Ireland then we'd have a deranged lier in charge of Europe brilliant.

So, it has been passed...

Now we, the united evil and global elite, can continue to persue our goal of creating a United States of Europe, which will inevitably lead to the long awaited New World Order and global enslavement.

So...

Stev_o

-JammyDodger- wrote: »

So, it has been passed...

Now we, the united evil and global elite, can continue to persue our goal of creating a United States of Europe, which will inevitably lead to the long awaited New World Order and global enslavement.

So...

Technically we already are as we are no longer in a European community but now a European union.

Pygmalion

Stev_o wrote: »

I expect 20,000 jobs to be announced come Monday or ill demand you reverse this statement and say that the Yes campaign did as much as the No campaigning in harnessing the fear of the recession.

Big difference.
I've never seen anyone claim that 20,000 jobs would be created, I've seen people claim that "some" jobs will be created, without mentioning numbers, and more people claim that it'll help keep companies in Ireland (Intel did a lot to back up this claim, their posters came across as "If you vote No we'll seriously reconsider our position here", whether or not it was an empty threat I don't know).

On the other hand, I've seen such lies as "€1.84 minimum wage" and "The only job Lisbon will save is [Brian Cowen's]" on every street I've walked down.

Deise Tom

Pygmalion wrote: »

Big difference.
I've never seen anyone claim that 20,000 jobs would be created, I've seen people claim that "some" jobs will be created, without mentioning numbers.

One jon will be created, a president of the Union.

I saw last night on the channel 4 news that some British people expect it to be Tony Blair.

sock puppet

Stev_o wrote: »

Did we just join the EU today? This recession has been going on for some time yet i haven't seen the EU bail us out of it. Where in the treaty does it say that the EU shall now provide economic recovery to member states?

http://www.irishtimes.com/newspaper/finance/2009/0921/1224254908745.html

They are bailing us out. I don't know where you got the idea that they weren't. How do you think Irish banks are still operating?

suitcasepink

Apperntly theres more problems.. Czech wont sign and Uk are hoping for Cameron to be Prime minister next year to let them vote on it... I'll look for links later but tis is what I heard.

Maybe there still wont be a Lisbon Teaty.

sock puppet

deise_girl wrote: »

Apperntly theres more problems.. Czech wont sign and Uk are hoping for Cameron to be Prime minister next year to let them vote on it... I'll look for links later but tis is what I heard.

Maybe there still wont be a Lisbon Teaty.

Yeah. Both Czech houses have ratified it but their President hasn't signed it into law yet. If he doesn't sign it before the UK election (in Spring I think?) then it'll be interesting to see what happens.

spoonbadger

Stev_o wrote: »

Sweet f*ck all will happen and the inefficient EU colonial machine will march on trying to secure Turkey a place in the near future.

Errr, are you trying to suggest they shouldn't let turkey in?.

The EU let ireland in when we they knew we had F-all to contribute, and helped drag our asses out of the last recession when they had no gaurantee we could ever do anything in return. Dont you think turkey deserves the same?.

Actually, this is the biggest problem with No-voters. You ignore everything europe has done for us, and just look for another way to bleed the turnip. You dig in your heels and complain that power is being taken away from us, by the people whose decision it was to grant that power in the first place. You assume that ireland is more important than every other country in Europe, just because it's your own country.

Btw, who the hell said that we're no longer a community, we're a union?. They should do some serious research into what EU stands for.

Anyway, it doesn't matter now. Sense, reason and progress won out in the end.

Stev_o

spoonbadger wrote: »

Errr, are you trying to suggest they shouldn't let turkey in?.

The EU let ireland in when we they knew we had F-all to contribute, and helped drag our asses out of the last recession when they had no gaurantee we could ever do anything in return. Dont you think turkey deserves the same?.

Of course, why should they be added? Have you not noticed that since the addition of the Eastern European states that the their has been a dramatic rise in cheap labour foreign nationals coming to this country despite the claims of many TD's that this wouldn't happen the inclusion of Turkey would only see this trend rise.

We are one of the richest countries in the EU now, the EU will be asking us to return the favour. Now considering how feeble our economic situation is in this country is tell me why it would make sense for us to fiance the development of countries like Poland, Turkey, Ukraine etc which would result in even more of the very few MNC's leave this country for the cheap labour filled countries which we would have helped to established

Actually, this is the biggest problem with No-voters. You ignore everything europe has done for us, and just look for another way to bleed the turnip. You dig in your heels and complain that power is being taken away from us, by the people whose decision it was to grant that power in the first place. You assume that ireland is more important than every other country in Europe, just because it's your own country.

Btw, who the hell said that we're no longer a community, we're a union?. They should do some serious research into what EU stands for.

Anyway, it doesn't matter now. Sense, reason and progress won out in the end..

*Bows down*

Im so sorry sir i forgot that you sit on the morale high ground of the yes vote and that you are indeed never wrong and completely perfect. Here let me adjust that crown for you. :rolleyes:

Seriously are you in the reincarnation of Jesus/Mohammad/Buddha? How dare you call me ignorant and try and proclaim yourself as perfect and almighty, clearly you have no idea what democracy is if you think the only right answer was Yes, there was in fact two right answers Yes and No.

Also maybe you should actually read the treaty and look for yourself that we are in a Union not a community.

jumpguy

-JammyDodger- wrote: »

So, it has been passed...

Now we, the united evil and global elite, can continue to persue our goal of creating a United States of Europe, which will inevitably lead to the long awaited New World Order and global enslavement.

So...

Am I the only not bothered about a United Europe superpower? It would benefit us in most aspects.
Waaah waaah sovereignity. We've yet to see it. We've depended on every other country for our rise, and it was ourselves that have made us fall so bad. Now, we're gonna ask for every other country a rise again. Besides that, we've been a backward country around 20 years behind the first world for most of our country's existance.

spoonbadger wrote: »

Errr, are you trying to suggest they shouldn't let turkey in?.

The EU let ireland in when we they knew we had F-all to contribute, and helped drag our asses out of the last recession when they had no gaurantee we could ever do anything in return. Dont you think turkey deserves the same?.

Actually, this is the biggest problem with No-voters. You ignore everything europe has done for us, and just look for another way to bleed the turnip. You dig in your heels and complain that power is being taken away from us, by the people whose decision it was to grant that power in the first place. You assume that ireland is more important than every other country in Europe, just because it's your own country.

Btw, who the hell said that we're no longer a community, we're a union?. They should do some serious research into what EU stands for.

Anyway, it doesn't matter now. Sense, reason and progress won out in the end.

True. We're happy and cheery about the EU when they've pumping billions into the country and building nice, smooth German motorways around Dublin. When we're on our feet and asked to give some money to other poorer countries, who are basically us back in the 1970's, we'll tell them to **** off. Last year, we were asked to give up some EU power for fairness's sake really, and so the EU could expand to help other countries. We said no, ignored all the EU had done for us. We thought the future was bright and we could do without the EU.
This time, we said yes, realising what the EU could do for us in the future.

Deise Tom

deise_girl wrote: »

Apperntly theres more problems.. Czech wont sign and Uk are hoping for Cameron to be Prime minister next year to let them vote on it... I'll look for links later but tis is what I heard.

Maybe there still wont be a Lisbon Teaty.

You are spot on, and maybe if the Irish people had any doubts about it they should not have been bullied into voting yes. I think it was rather funny that all the political parties bar Sinn Fein and The Workers Party which is a break away from Sinn Fein were looking for a yes vote. When did they all agree on something last. Its a pity that they do not agree to try and get the country back on the rails together rather than to try and steal cheap shots off each other.

Pygmalion

Deise Tom wrote: »

You are spot on, and maybe if the Irish people had any doubts about it they should not have been bullied into voting yes. I think it was rather funny that all the political parties bar Sinn Fein and The Workers Party which is a break away from Sinn Fein were looking for a yes vote. When did they all agree on something last. Its a pity that they do not agree to try and get the country back on the rails together rather than to try and steal cheap shots off each other.

All the political parties agree on something, I don't see how that's a bad thing.

As for "bullying", look into the reasons given by the "No" voters last time, the biggest 3 were fears over abortion, fears over neutrality and the commisioner IIRC (in no particular order).
One has been rectified since then, the other two were complete lies brought about by the no side. It's perfectly reasonable to think that people changed their minds because either their fears were addressed or they realised they were lied to, it's not bullying just because you disagree.

sock puppet

Deise Tom wrote: »

You are spot on, and maybe if the Irish people had any doubts about it they should not have been bullied into voting yes. I think it was rather funny that all the political parties bar Sinn Fein and The Workers Party which is a break away from Sinn Fein were looking for a yes vote. When did they all agree on something last. Its a pity that they do not agree to try and get the country back on the rails together rather than to try and steal cheap shots off each other.

What exactly would all the parties working together achieve? It won't make businesses more competitive, it won't make the Euro weaker and it won't reduce unemployment. The only time when it'd make sense for the parties to work together is if one is the head of a minority government and needs more votes to pass legislation. The difference between here and somehwere like America is that there's no division among our parties so you don't tend to see the same level of co-operation or compromise.

electrogrimey

Metal_Princess wrote: »

no more free education,

last time i checked

it was against the IRISH CONSTITUTION (yes it is written in their go do some research if you dont believe me, written in LAW ) to make to people vote twice on the same referendum and that the peoples vote is law and final

To spit on the history of our freedom? On the people who campaigned and fought to make ireland a free democratic country ??

where is our free ireland today?
it is being burned to the ground
and we shall once again stand back and watch it burn

If you havn't noticed, with or without Lisbon the government will bring in 3rd level fees, and there is nothing in Lisbon saying anything about the end of free 1st and 2nd level education...also, I doubt that you've ever checked out constitution, given your obvious lack of general political knowledge, have you not noticed the amount of times over the years people have been asked to vote repeatedly on referenda? Anyway, Lisbon 2 was in fact slightly different. I also hate all this hysterical "Irish freedom" bull****, Lisbon had nothing to do with our sovereignty, and all the predictions of respected economists and theorists said that if there was a no vote, Ireland would be stuck with Britain, when they vote no under the conservatives, on the fringe on the EU, which is ironic, seeing as it was this nationalist anti-British scaremongering that the no side were using.

jumpguy wrote: »

Did you completely ignore the legally binding guarantees?

Neutrality is guaranteed under the legally binding agreements.

Lower basic wages? What?! It's the most ridiculous thing I've heard in the no campaign.


Why oh why can't we vote at 16? I know more about Lisbon than at least 20% of over 30 year olds.

But I also hate this kind of response of the yes side, just as uninformed and subjective. If you havn't noticed, those "legally binding guarantees" were never legally binding...in fact, it would be illegal in the eyes of the EU if they were binding, as for them to come into effect and change the treaty just for Ireland, it would mean all 27 countries would have to vote again. Lower basic wages also isn't ridiculous, it is a reasonable claim that although the minimum wage can't be affected, most people are above minimum wage, and could see their wages drop. So please inform yourself better before spouting these ridiculous statistics claiming you are more knowledgeable then others...

Piste

Take your lies and scaremongering elsewhere. If you have no evidence to back up what you're saying then don't bother posting completely incorrect information.


Yes, this is a warning.

sock puppet

http://examiner.ie/world/lisbon-yes-vote-may-cut-cost-of-loans-102653.html

Here you go Stev-o. Obviously this doesn't directly translate into jobs but it does improve our economic situation slightly.

Insect Overlord

For any further discussion of the Lisbon Treaty and Referenda, please use the Politics Forum.

This thread will remain open for general discussion on voting, and for questions pertaining to young people voting.

Stev_o

sock puppet wrote: »

http://examiner.ie/world/lisbon-yes-vote-may-cut-cost-of-loans-102653.html

Here you go Stev-o. Obviously this doesn't directly translate into jobs but it does improve our economic situation slightly.

But it's not putting people into jobs you know? Plus the key word in there is "may" not will. Look i voted no even though i was fairly disgusted with how the no Side was run nearly all the posters relating to the No vote were complete BS and ud have to be a fool to take them seriously.

@Mods rename the thread Politics and Young people, would be a more practical solution.
However when you have the governing political party in the country making as daft slogans as "Yes for Jobs" the same slating has to be made at them. Do you follow me? If it was some crazy arse nobody's who were spreading that slogan then really we could both say they are full of nonsense but the fact its the Government raises a huge issue altogether.

@Mods: Rename the thread Politics and Young People, would be a far better solution then narrowing down on voting when there is nothing to vote on around at the moment.