Voting?

soccymonster · 13-09-2009 04:49AM

blackbetty69 wrote: »

what the hell is wring with these pple... il be voting no simply coz they had the cheek to ask us to vote again even tho it was clear last time what our opinions were.. thatl piss them off hopefully, whos with me?

*tumbleweed*

bythewoods · 13-09-2009 01:13PM

blackbetty69 wrote: »

what the hell is wring with these pple... il be voting no simply coz they had the cheek to ask us to vote again even tho it was clear last time what our opinions were.. thatl piss them off hopefully, whos with me?

For God's sake.

Go on. Push us all back into the dark ages cos you're too childish to realise how important a Yes vote is.
Why don't you actually educate yourslef on what the treaty's about instead of trying to spite the whole country, hmm?

I don't have anything against people who vote no, as long as they've a valid reason for doing so. That, however, is not a valid reason.

phasers · 13-09-2009 01:34PM

I could almost respect someone's decision to vote no to "stick it to the government" or whatever if the treaty hadn't been changed since last time, but it has, so it is stupid.

Stev_o · 13-09-2009 04:03PM

phasers wrote: »

I could almost respect someone's decision to vote no to "stick it to the government" or whatever if the treaty hadn't been changed since last time, but it has, so it is stupid.

So if i asked you out and you said no would you change your mind if i came back 2 months later and asked you out BUT promised you x y and z?

I just think that ratifying a EU constitution makes our particle history completely pointless and makes you wonder what the hell is the point.

phasers · 13-09-2009 04:25PM

Stev_o wrote: »

So if i asked you out and you said no would you change your mind if i came back 2 months later and asked you out BUT promised you x y and z?

How is that in any way the same thing?

Any it depends on why I turned you down originally. If I said no because you smelled and you promised to shower frequently I may say yes.

Stev_o · 13-09-2009 04:36PM

phasers wrote: »

How is that in any way the same thing?

Any it depends on why I turned you down originally. If I said no because you smelled and you promised to shower frequently I may say yes.

Generally people don't like being asked the same thing twice especially if they'v given a answer the first time around. A very large percentage of voters again will have no idea what this treaty is about and will vote on it on the principles of a) It's the secret cure to the recession b) Respect my original vote of no.

sock puppet · 13-09-2009 06:15PM

Stev_o wrote: »

Generally people don't like being asked the same thing twice especially if they'v given a answer the first time around. A very large percentage of voters again will have no idea what this treaty is about and will vote on it on the principles of a) It's the secret cure to the recession b) Respect my original vote of no.

So would you rather that divorce was still illegal in this country? Granted there was a lot more time in between the two referenda however if the government feels that it has satisfied the concerns of the people who voted no then they're right to put it to them again.

A Neurotic · 13-09-2009 06:30PM

Stev_o wrote: »

Generally people don't like being asked the same thing twice especially if they'v given a answer the first time around. A very large percentage of voters again will have no idea what this treaty is about and will vote on it on the principles of a) It's the secret cure to the recession b) Respect my original vote of no.

The Government/Yes campaign made a balls of informing people before the first vote. People were ignorant of what the Treaty was about, and were being bombarded with OTT scaremongering from the No side. Many voted No because of these misconceptions. The Government are perfectly right IMO to disregard this vote, inform and educate people sufficiently, and ask us to vote again.

Stev_o · 13-09-2009 07:57PM

sock puppet wrote: »

So would you rather that divorce was still illegal in this country? Granted there was a lot more time in between the two referenda however if the government feels that it has satisfied the concerns of the people who voted no then they're right to put it to them again.

Here it's the 2009 not 1940 with Dev and Costello amending Bunreacht. You can get a divorce without any bother in this country.

@A Neurotic: Your still going to have a large percentage who have no idea what these changes mean or what their implementations will have on this country, id rather people vote no because they have a gut feeling about it then being pressured into voting yes, that's not democracy. It seems that this time around it's the Yes side who are ramming down peoples throat to vote yes, each person in this country has the right to a vote and i personally don't think they should be ridiculed for wanting to vote yes or no.

sock puppet · 13-09-2009 08:34PM

Stev_o wrote: »

Here it's the 2009 not 1940 with Dev and Costello amending Bunreacht. You can get a divorce without any bother in this country.

It wasn't Dev and it wasn;t 1940 either. In 1986 a huge majority of Irish people voted against lifting the ban on divorce. The next time Fine Gael got into power they held another referendum. Vote no if you like but it's foolish to vote no just because you're being asked to vote again.

A Neurotic · 14-09-2009 09:04PM

Clicky.

tl;dr? An extract:

No means no, surely?

Some people say, “Hey Beardy, we believe in the EU too. But this Treaty is a
different matter. We already voted on this thing and we voted no. What part of
no do our leaders not understand? I mean, it is only two letters. We voted no. No
means no, right?”

No does in fact mean no, and as a result the Irish government was unable to
ratify the Lisbon Treaty, and so the Treaty did not become law. In other words,
the decision of the Irish people was respected. That’s not true! Some say. If they
respected our decision, why are we voting again? Well, here’s why.

In the same way that the world has the annoying habit of turning, things in European
politics just did not stop when we said no. Firstly, we were asked by our European
partners, who along with us had spent eight years and thousands of hours of patient
diplomacy and negotiation on this Treaty, why we did not like the document.

When they asked us why we threw it out, the top three issues we brought up[*] were
the fear that this Treaty would bring abortion and conscription into this country and
the potential loss of our Commissioner. Our European partners were a bit confused.
And this is why:

They’ve been aware of our sensitivities about abortion for decades, which is
why there’s been a statement in EU law for the last eighteen years stating that
abortion is a matter for Irish people to decide. That statement is not changed
by the Treaty, nor has the EU ever brought in a single piece of law that has ever
questioned that statement. So for our European partners, associating abortion
with the Lisbon Treaty is to them like associating quantum mechanics with the
disappointing second album and subsequent career of Terence Trent D’Arby.

Conscription? A) There’s no mention of it in the Treaty, and there’s no EU army to
conscript into.

As for our concern about the Commissioner. Now….this was something they could do
something about and a couple of other countries were not too happy about either. So all
countries agreed that if Lisbon ever became law, all countries would apply the rule in
the Treaty that all countries would keep their guy at the Commission table.

Once we got a number of legal guarantees
confirming that the issues we’ve imagined to
be in the Treaty are in fact our imagination
(abortion and conscription), plus the agreement
on the Commissioner, our European mates have
basically said, “So, we’ve heard you, we’ve dealt
with your concerns that you flagged with this
document that took us eight years to negotiate,
would you mind having another democratic look at it along with the other documentation
we’ve all agreed, to make sure?”

So, can we vote no a second time? Of course we can. Will it be respected? Yes it
will. As long as the Irish people choose not to ratify the Lisbon Treaty, it will not be
ratified. If we vote no a second time, the Treaty will remain exactly where it is now.
Un-ratified.

However, whereas we expect the rest of Europe to respect our decision, they want us
to also respect theirs.

We cannot be forced to ratify the Lisbon Treaty. That’s not just Irish law, that’s EU law.
But if we vote no a second time, we are in effect telling the other countries that this is
the end of the line for us. Not that we are leaving the EU, but that we have gone as far
as we are going.

The rest of the EU won’t like that answer, but they’ll accept it, and make their own
arrangements without us. Why? Because we told them we were no longer interested.
Shocking and all as the concept is, they will actually believe us. If there is anyone who
thinks that Ireland is better served by the great majority of our allies having private
discussions without us about the future of Europe, then let’s hear from them.

In 1916 we fought and defeated the most powerful empire in the world for the right to
speak for ourselves at the table of nations. The EU assured us of that place, and now we
seem eager to relinquish it, just as other small countries like Iceland seem very eager
to take our place. (Or, in the case of Iceland, is it plaice?)

This October, we get to decide our future, and despite what the cynics tell you,
our decision will be respected.

Perhaps we are only realising that now?

[*] The one I’m not including here is in fact the top answer to the survey after the Lisbon Treaty, which
was the ‘I didn’t understand it/it’s so complicated’ argument. Laziness is not really an ‘issue’ that our
European mates can help us with.

Stev_o · 14-09-2009 10:20PM

Did he just make up a bit of history at the end there of us beating Britain in 1916?

It wasn't me! · 15-09-2009 01:14PM

Stev_o wrote: »

Did he just make up a bit of history at the end there of us beating Britain in 1916?

Yes he did.

herisson · 16-09-2009 09:58AM

i was 18 in June i filled out my form to register but i lost it meh no harm done i wouldnt know what to vote anyway so doesnt bother me ill sign up eventually

Metal_Princess · 16-09-2009 10:28PM

I was under the impression we lived in a democracy

how is this so when we, the people are asked to vote twice on the same referendum to which we already voted NO to just because our governmeant are a bunch of selfish idiotic assholes wanting to line their pockets without a second thought for the effects this will have on the ordinary people, and without giving us any new information? just lies and promices of a better future? to get out of the recession? be one with europe?

no more free education, no more neutrality, lower basic wages and oh yes the best part...ireland will have practicly no say in anything that is passed through the EU our vote couts for something minimal like 000.7%

last time i checked

it was against the IRISH CONSTITUTION (yes it is written in their go do some research if you dont believe me, written in LAW ) to make to people vote twice on the same referendum and that the peoples vote is law and final

How many more times will they push us untill they get the yes that so desperatly crave?

To spit on the history of our freedom? On the people who campaigned and fought to make ireland a free democratic country ??

where is our free ireland today?
it is being burned to the ground
and we shall once again stand back and watch it burn

eVeNtInE · 16-09-2009 11:09PM

This post has been deleted.

Futurism · 17-09-2009 02:25PM

Metal_Princess wrote: »

I was under the impression we lived in a democracy

how is this so when we, the people are asked to vote twice on the same referendum to which we already voted NO to just because our governmeant are a bunch of selfish idiotic assholes wanting to line their pockets without a second thought for the effects this will have on the ordinary people, and without giving us any new information? just lies and promices of a better future? to get out of the recession? be one with europe?

no more free education, no more neutrality, lower basic wages and oh yes the best part...ireland will have practicly no say in anything that is passed through the EU our vote couts for something minimal like 000.7%

last time i checked

it was against the IRISH CONSTITUTION (yes it is written in their go do some research if you dont believe me, written in LAW ) to make to people vote twice on the same referendum and that the peoples vote is law and final

How many more times will they push us untill they get the yes that so desperatly crave?

To spit on the history of our freedom? On the people who campaigned and fought to make ireland a free democratic country ??

where is our free ireland today?
it is being burned to the ground
and we shall once again stand back and watch it burn

A Neurotic wrote: »

Clicky.

tl;dr? An extract:

No means no, surely?

Some people say, “Hey Beardy, we believe in the EU too. But this Treaty is a
different matter. We already voted on this thing and we voted no. What part of
no do our leaders not understand? I mean, it is only two letters. We voted no. No
means no, right?”

No does in fact mean no, and as a result the Irish government was unable to
ratify the Lisbon Treaty, and so the Treaty did not become law. In other words,
the decision of the Irish people was respected. That’s not true! Some say. If they
respected our decision, why are we voting again? Well, here’s why.

In the same way that the world has the annoying habit of turning, things in European
politics just did not stop when we said no. Firstly, we were asked by our European
partners, who along with us had spent eight years and thousands of hours of patient
diplomacy and negotiation on this Treaty, why we did not like the document.

When they asked us why we threw it out, the top three issues we brought up
[*] were
the fear that this Treaty would bring abortion and conscription into this country and
the potential loss of our Commissioner. Our European partners were a bit confused.
And this is why:

They’ve been aware of our sensitivities about abortion for decades, which is
why there’s been a statement in EU law for the last eighteen years stating that
abortion is a matter for Irish people to decide. That statement is not changed
by the Treaty, nor has the EU ever brought in a single piece of law that has ever
questioned that statement. So for our European partners, associating abortion
with the Lisbon Treaty is to them like associating quantum mechanics with the
disappointing second album and subsequent career of Terence Trent D’Arby.

Conscription? A) There’s no mention of it in the Treaty, and there’s no EU army to
conscript into.

As for our concern about the Commissioner. Now….this was something they could do
something about and a couple of other countries were not too happy about either. So all
countries agreed that if Lisbon ever became law, all countries would apply the rule in
the Treaty that all countries would keep their guy at the Commission table.

Once we got a number of legal guarantees
confirming that the issues we’ve imagined to
be in the Treaty are in fact our imagination
(abortion and conscription), plus the agreement
on the Commissioner, our European mates have
basically said, “So, we’ve heard you, we’ve dealt
with your concerns that you flagged with this
document that took us eight years to negotiate,
would you mind having another democratic look at it along with the other documentation
we’ve all agreed, to make sure?”

So, can we vote no a second time? Of course we can. Will it be respected? Yes it
will. As long as the Irish people choose not to ratify the Lisbon Treaty, it will not be
ratified. If we vote no a second time, the Treaty will remain exactly where it is now.
Un-ratified.

However, whereas we expect the rest of Europe to respect our decision, they want us
to also respect theirs.

We cannot be forced to ratify the Lisbon Treaty. That’s not just Irish law, that’s EU law.
But if we vote no a second time, we are in effect telling the other countries that this is
the end of the line for us. Not that we are leaving the EU, but that we have gone as far
as we are going.

The rest of the EU won’t like that answer, but they’ll accept it, and make their own
arrangements without us. Why? Because we told them we were no longer interested.
Shocking and all as the concept is, they will actually believe us. If there is anyone who
thinks that Ireland is better served by the great majority of our allies having private
discussions without us about the future of Europe, then let’s hear from them.

In 1916 we fought and defeated the most powerful empire in the world for the right to
speak for ourselves at the table of nations. The EU assured us of that place, and now we
seem eager to relinquish it, just as other small countries like Iceland seem very eager
to take our place. (Or, in the case of Iceland, is it plaice?)

This October, we get to decide our future, and despite what the cynics tell you,
our decision will be respected.

Perhaps we are only realising that now?

[*] The one I’m not including here is in fact the top answer to the survey after the Lisbon Treaty, which
was the ‘I didn’t understand it/it’s so complicated’ argument. Laziness is not really an ‘issue’ that our
European mates can help us with.

So what reason will you give us next Metal_Princess?

**** democracy. They should test you before you're allowed a vote.

Corkfeen · 17-09-2009 08:54PM

Unsure on which way i'll go to be honest. Still mulling it over.

Davidius · 18-09-2009 09:52PM

A Neurotic wrote: »

People were ignorant of what the Treaty was about, and were being bombarded with OTT scaremongering from the No side. Many voted No because of these misconceptions.

And if a Yes vote passes, we should probably run it through a 3rd time due to the fact that many will have voted 'Yes' due to misconceptions such as magical job creation and recession destroying treaty pills along with Europe deciding they won't beat it us up.

It's not as if the majority of "Yes" voters really know what they're talking about either.

Cloned Alien · 18-09-2009 11:12PM

It's not as if the majority of "Yes" voters really know what they're talking about either

And the NO side know what their are talking about, very unlikely.

Ireland in Europe that functions efficently unlike it is now under Nice is only beneficial to Ireland and goodwill towards Ireland for a yes cant hurt either. The No campagin just scaremonger anyway.

They are just far right and left wing nutjobs who i would never trust

Davidius · 19-09-2009 12:01AM

Cloned Alien wrote: »

And the NO side know what their are talking about, very unlikely.

Hence why I used the word 'either'. I'm fully aware that No voters voted based on nonsense reasons but I don't feel it's fair that Yes voters choose to ignore their own share of uneducated voting. We all know the treaty would not have been put through again had there been a Yes vote despite that one could apply the same reasoning for a 2nd vote.

Ireland in Europe that functions efficently unlike it is now under Nice is only beneficial to Ireland and goodwill towards Ireland for a yes cant hurt either.

Wouldn't voting based on the possibility of goodwill being shown be somewhat foolish and a bit irresponsible? Ideally you should vote based on the treaty itself and that alone not "You scratch my back, I'll scratch yours" especially because the EU really doesn't have to do anything once they have what they need and likely don't have any intentions to either.

There's a lot wrong with using the Lisbon Treaty as a bargaining chip, regardless if you're voting yes or no.

The No campagin just scaremonger anyway.

The Yes campaign feeds off people's recession fears by advertising it as the magical recession beater. That's no better.

sock puppet · 19-09-2009 02:55PM

Davidius wrote: »

Hence why I used the word 'either'. I'm fully aware that No voters voted based on nonsense reasons but I don't feel it's fair that Yes voters choose to ignore their own share of uneducated voting. We all know the treaty would not have been put through again had there been a Yes vote despite that one could apply the same reasoning for a 2nd vote.

Wouldn't voting based on the possibility of goodwill being shown be somewhat foolish and a bit irresponsible? Ideally you should vote based on the treaty itself and that alone not "You scratch my back, I'll scratch yours" especially because the EU really doesn't have to do anything once they have what they need and likely don't have any intentions to either.

There's a lot wrong with using the Lisbon Treaty as a bargaining chip, regardless if you're voting yes or no.

The Yes campaign feeds off people's recession fears by advertising it as the magical recession beater. That's no better.

Possibility? The government are relying on the ECB for NAMA to work. I've a very limited understanding of it but from what I gather, the ECB will issue loans to the banks backed by government bonds. Now I can't pretend to know what will happen if we vote no again, but without the EU bailing us out we would be totally ****ed. Your suggestion that the EU doesn't care about Ireland's future isn't true at all.

Cloned Alien · 21-09-2009 07:07PM

The Yes campaign feeds off people's recession fears by advertising it as the magical recession beater. That's no better.

and the no side do something similar in lieing, for example Joe Higgins manipulating the charter of fundamnetal rights to suite his own arguement. Choir arguing that the minium wage will be €1.84 LIE!!! we control our own minimum wage. Thirdly Joe Higgins say Voting no will privates health and education UTTER RUBBISH. We alrerady have the option being private or public through our own Gov policies

D4RK ONION · 21-09-2009 07:27PM

Thought maybe ye'd like to read something that isn't Biased off it's balls.
http://www.lisbontreaty2009.ie/lisbon_treaty_european_parliament.html

Seloth · 30-09-2009 09:49PM

Right I'm gonna start off by saying I'm hudly interested in politics and I DO want to get involved when I'm grown up

I turned 18 in august but I'm not going to vote.

Why?Well for one I dont know much about it either way but thoe vote No posters are getting more and more rediculouse.What annoyed me was when ever I'm coming or going in and out town the only posters that seem to be out in the country side are the ones about agriculuture..wtf!,Like my dad is a farmer yeah but most of people that live out here arent...and even so agriculture shouldnt be jsut the main worry if there is going to be a problem...jesus not a single other poster for it.I also saw one...well it wasnt even a poster it was white spray paint saying vote know on a large wall ona main road that you cna barley see,I love to think of the person who did it as ne of those self declared wannabe anarchists.

But yeah,Another reason is I still feel you young to make such an important decision,yeah Im a "legal"adult now but in all fairness everyone still see's us as kids..and wo can blame them were only 18!.

Just to throw in,I saw a band on bebo and I laughed my arse off when I saw some one say"Get that ****er BIFFO OUT...HE'S ****E,BRING BACK BERTIE,ALL WAS GOOD WHEN HE RAN THINGS!"...What a tool lol,it was a scobe girls page anyway

Stev_o · 30-09-2009 10:11PM

Seloth wrote: »

Right I'm gonna start off by saying I'm hudly interested in politics and I DO want to get involved when I'm grown up

I turned 18 in august but I'm not going to vote.

Why?Well for one I dont know much about it either way but thoe vote No posters are getting more and more rediculouse.What annoyed me was when ever I'm coming or going in and out town the only posters that seem to be out in the country side are the ones about agriculuture..wtf!,Like my dad is a farmer yeah but most of people that live out here arent...and even so agriculture shouldnt be jsut the main worry if there is going to be a problem...jesus not a single other poster for it.I also saw one...well it wasnt even a poster it was white spray paint saying vote know on a large wall ona main road that you cna barley see,I love to think of the person who did it as ne of those self declared wannabe anarchists.

But yeah,Another reason is I still feel you young to make such an important decision,yeah Im a "legal"adult now but in all fairness everyone still see's us as kids..and wo can blame them were only 18!.

Just to throw in,I saw a band on bebo and I laughed my arse off when I saw some one say"Get that ****er BIFFO OUT...HE'S ****E,BRING BACK BERTIE,ALL WAS GOOD WHEN HE RAN THINGS!"...What a tool lol,it was a scobe girls page anyway

Tbh both sides are desperately making up stuff to try secure the vote, id call whatever vote that wins void dew to the massive misinformation spouted by both sides.

Personally ill be voting no, manly because i don't believe in the future of the EU it's policies can't work to our benefit in the direction it's going case in point Dell moving to Lodz in Poland and receiving a EU grant dew to the area having a huge % unemployed. You can't just help out a country like us develop a good economy revolving around low costs and then go and out and under cut us in a another country that has just joined the EU.

The fact is we will loose alot more jobs to Eastern countries in the future and chances are MNC's that move there will be helped out by EU grants. Sadly we don't live in a world where there are enough jobs for everyone and realistically the best we'v done is when we'v riden the EU for all it's worth and we will be at our worst when they look at us to pay towards boosting these countries in the east that will see many large MNC's move to.

sock puppet · 30-09-2009 10:25PM

Stev_o wrote: »

Tbh both sides are desperately making up stuff to try secure the vote, id call whatever vote that wins void dew to the massive misinformation spouted by both sides.

Personally ill be voting no, manly because i don't believe in the future of the EU it's policies can't work to our benefit in the direction it's going case in point Dell moving to Lodz in Poland and receiving a EU grant dew to the area having a huge % unemployed. You can't just help out a country like us develop a good economy revolving around low costs and then go and out and under cut us in a another country that has just joined the EU.

The fact is we will loose alot more jobs to Eastern countries in the future and chances are MNC's that move there will be helped out by EU grants. Sadly we don't live in a world where there are enough jobs for everyone and realistically the best we'v done is when we'v riden the EU for all it's worth and we will be at our worst when they look at us to pay towards boosting these countries in the east that will see many large MNC's move to.

In fairness why on earth would a company locate a computer building plant in an expensive country like Ireland? It just doesn't make any sense. Either the plant moves to Poland or eventually it'll close down. The No campaigners all want us to leave the EU. What then? Coir seem to think that between farming and fishing we'll have plenty of money. Sure weren't the 20's a great time for us.

Stev_o · 30-09-2009 10:43PM

sock puppet wrote: »

In fairness why on earth would a company locate a computer building plant in an expensive country like Ireland? It just doesn't make any sense. Either the plant moves to Poland or eventually it'll close down. The No campaigners all want us to leave the EU. What then? Coir seem to think that between farming and fishing we'll have plenty of money. Sure weren't the 20's a great time for us.

See during the 80's we had cheap Engineering and Sciences students coming out form UL and UCC. Our corporation tax is also one of the lowest in Europe at 12.5%, the EU pretty much built the the facilites for Dell so they spent feck all in the process and at the time So the likes of Dell and Intel established plants here on those basis. But they really couldn't give a f*ck about us, Dell has it's Euro HQ in Ireland just cause of the low corp tax despite having less then 100 workers employed in this country, when they EU helped out Poland they saw it as a easy way of cost cutting.

What happens now when the Eastern blocks starting seeing the effects of EU grants? They ll under cut us at every cost we can't compete with their cheap labour and EU benefits. Then what are we left with? Fisheries that have species on the verge of extinction and agricultural products that no one wants to buy.

We aren't a major European country we have little if no cards to negotiate with against the other major countries in the EU. We are in a catch 22 situation here tbh we are f*cked if we do f*cked if we don't.

sock puppet · 30-09-2009 11:07PM

Stev_o wrote: »

See during the 80's we had cheap Engineering and Sciences students coming out form UL and UCC. Our corporation tax is also one of the lowest in Europe at 12.5%, the EU pretty much built the the facilites for Dell so they spent feck all in the process and at the time So the likes of Dell and Intel established plants here on those basis. But they really couldn't give a f*ck about us, Dell has it's Euro HQ in Ireland just cause of the low corp tax despite having less then 100 workers employed in this country, when they EU helped out Poland they saw it as a easy way of cost cutting.

What happens now when the Eastern blocks starting seeing the effects of EU grants? They ll under cut us at every cost we can't compete with their cheap labour and EU benefits. Then what are we left with? Fisheries that have species on the verge of extinction and agricultural products that no one wants to buy.

We aren't a major European country we have little if no cards to negotiate with against the other major countries in the EU. We are in a catch 22 situation here tbh we are f*cked if we do f*cked if we don't.

Oh I know why they came here. I'm pointing out that it's inevitable that they leave. Also no need to be so gloomy. This isn't just happeneing to Ireland. We're just going to have to rely less on manufacturing like every other country.

jumpguy · 30-09-2009 11:21PM

Metal_Princess wrote: »

I was under the impression we lived in a democracy

how is this so when we, the people are asked to vote twice on the same referendum to which we already voted NO to just because our governmeant are a bunch of selfish idiotic assholes wanting to line their pockets without a second thought for the effects this will have on the ordinary people, and without giving us any new information? just lies and promices of a better future? to get out of the recession? be one with europe?

no more free education, no more neutrality, lower basic wages and oh yes the best part...ireland will have practicly no say in anything that is passed through the EU our vote couts for something minimal like 000.7%

last time i checked

it was against the IRISH CONSTITUTION (yes it is written in their go do some research if you dont believe me, written in LAW ) to make to people vote twice on the same referendum and that the peoples vote is law and final

Did you completely ignore the legally binding guarantees? Do you think it's fair that a small little country with a population the size of London (approx. 5 million) gets the same say as a country with 160 million citizens or more? No, it's not fair.

Now here we are, the best one to me. Explain to me exactly how how education is no longer going to be free after Lisbon? Funnily enough, free primary and secondary education IS a part of the constitution. I would've thought with all your "research" into the constitution you might've known that.
Neutrality is guaranteed under the legally binding agreements. Personally, I'm disappointed we'll still be in such a state. I'm in favour of an EU army, especially in today's world. It'd give Ireland alot more sway military-wise.

Lower basic wages? What?! It's the most ridiculous thing I've heard in the no campaign.

It isn't against the Irish constitution to have 2 of the same referendums. Can you quote the part of it you think says this? I'd love to see it.

Why oh why can't we vote at 16? I know more about Lisbon than at least 20% of over 30 year olds.

Voting?

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