M17/M18 - Gort to Tuam [open to traffic]

KevR

serfboard wrote: »

I was under the impression that it was always the plan to sign the contract in November of this year and to start construction next year.

The Galway Advertiser had a big article on their front page last week about construction starting in November. The article in this weeks Galway Independent, which said it might not be starting in November, was a lot less noticeable - buried somewhere in the middle of the paper. There are probably a fair few people who still think it will be starting this November.

D.L.R.

Can someone give me a price comparison between this type of cloverleaf junction and a 3 level stacked roundabout as planned for Rathmorrisey, cheers. It looks to my layman eyes like the cloverleaf has less bridging, thus its not only a better design, its also cheaper!

The mind BOGGLES

wellbutty

The 3 stack looks sexier

Seriously though I always the thought the cloverleaf style was flawed because the onramp to offramp distances are so short you end up having traffic accelerating and braking almost in the same place.

cjpm

wellbutty wrote: »

The 3 stack looks sexier

Seriously though I always the thought the cloverleaf style was flawed because the onramp to offramp distances are so short you end up having traffic accelerating and braking almost in the same place.

Spot on, there are minimum recommended distances between on and off ramps as if they are too close the weaving traffic is very dangerous. Of course is this distance is increased then the scale of the cloverleaf junction increases and a lot more landtake is required.

Chris_5339762

I wouldnt trust Irish drivers on a cloverleaf. No way. They cant merge or stick to the correct lanes as it is and putting them on a cloverleaf would just cause pile-ups.

Chris_5339762

BTW theres a huge amount of whining going on at the moment as farmers effected by the CPOs are 'only' getting €9,000 per acre, they are comparing it to the €20,000 per acre that they got for the M6 Ball - Galway scheme.

D.L.R.

I see what you mean bout the cloverleaf. What about this

KevR

Would prefer some sort of a 'whirpool' junction than a cloverleaf or 3-level stack.

Chris_5339762

Whirlpool like that would be nice but its massively overcapacity for anything the west of Ireland will ever need. Thats the big problem here, a 3 level stack is not future-proofed, and anything else is just massively overpowered, except for a cloverleaf which I wouldnt put Irish drivers within 20 miles of anyway.

Sponge Bob

We will learn to live with it and to use the Claregalway Bypass that Noel Grealish is sorting out personally as I write.

-Corkie-

tech2 wrote: »

Yeah a bit too positive by the NRA spokesperson. I'll believe it when I see the diggers on site.

Well thank god bothar hibernian arent involved. I think galway as a place would have eroded away by the time they would be finished..

fresca

would it be fair to think that the gort to athenry section of the M18 (gort-tuam) will get priority, i.e. be completed before the athenry-tuam section?
including the motorway-to-motorway interchange M18/M6.

mind you, there will be at least 2 Irish Rail crossings on Gort-Athenry (and possibly 3).

1 just north of gort ... (kiltartan?) (limerick-galway line)
1 just north of ardrahan (limerick-galway line)
possibly 1 west of athenry (crossing the R348) (galway-dublin rail line)

As we've seen on M7 limerick-nenagh, IR involvement seems to slow the project somewhat.

fresca

fresca wrote: »

would it be fair to think that the gort to athenry section of the M18 (gort-tuam) will get priority, i.e. be completed before the athenry-tuam section?
including the motorway-to-motorway interchange M18/M6.

mind you, there will be at least 2 Irish Rail crossings on Gort-Athenry (and possibly 3).

1 just north of gort ... (kiltartan?) (limerick-galway line)
1 just north of ardrahan (limerick-galway line)
possibly 1 west of athenry (crossing the R348) (galway-dublin rail line)

As we've seen on M7 limerick-nenagh, IR involvement seems to slow the project somewhat.

I stand corrected. 2 bridges.
This link includes a map... http://www.nra.ie/Publications/DownloadableDocumentation/PublicPrivatePartnership/file,16119,en.pdf

The proposed M18 will pass west of existing limerick-galway rail line with 1 rail crossing over the dublin-galway line west of athenry.

Just 2 interchanges between gort and M6 ... 1 at kiltiernan and the other the M18/M6 interchange (rathmorrisey).

I still think that gort-m6 will be (and probably should be?) open before m6-tuam.

Roryhy

I thought it was being proceeded as 1 project?

KevR

http://www.galwaynews.ie/11340-bailed-out-bank-could-make-killing-motorway-project

Galway News wrote:

Bailed-out bank could make killing from motorway project

February 18, 2010 - 7:00am
By Declan Tierney and Jonathan Hannon

AIB, the bank already bailed out by the state to the tune of €3.5 billion, has confirmed that it is one of the potential private investors in the new Gort to Tuam motorway - an investment that, under the terms of the public private partnership, would leave the state paying a lucrative annual return to the bank for the next 30 years.

And while such a bid makes perfect sense in that it represents a cast-iron guaranteed return for the bank, there is disbelief that the recapitalised bank should now be in a position to pump major funding into the €500 million road project, when small businesses in particular are complaining of a clampdown on credit.

The National Roads Authority recently announced that the tendering process for the M17/M18 motorway project had been whittled down to two interested consortia.

And one of these a group of investors called Direct Route which involves AIB Plc along with four major construction companies.
The bank is perfectly entitled to be involved in such a major project which has lucrative returns at the end, but the revelation that they are pumping in a large amount of money into a roads project will further irate taxpayers.

Last year the Government controversially arranged a €7 billion rescue plan for AIB and Bank of Ireland – the crash in the property market led to major solvency issues concerning the two major banks.

AIB’s participation in the Gort to Tuam motorway, which is being constructed on a public private partnership arrangement, has led to criticism of the bank.

When contacted by The Connacht Tribune, AIB Headquarters in Dublin confirmed that the bank was part of the tendering process for the Gort to Tuam motorway.

However, Ronan Sheridan of AIB said that it was inappropriate to comment further on their involvement in the tender prior to a decision being made by the National Roads Authority.

Under the PPP process, the successful contractors would be paid a premium by the State on an annual basis over possibly 30 years and would envisage turning a healthy profit around half way through this term.

See full story in the Connacht Tribune

Roryhy

I suppose it depends on the way the PPP is drawn up. Normally with toll schemes you cant collect any tolls until the scheme is complete. This may still be the case, there may be no benefit to the company to open sections early unless it was written into the contract that they will be paid 50% upon completion of 50% of the scheme or something similar. The government probably wont be keen to start making payments early given the public finances so i wouldn't be surprised if payments will only begin after completion.

KevR

Just saw this full free-flow interchange in Dubai, I suppose it's a much more high powered version of the N4/M50 interchange. Anyone else think something like this would be perfect for Rathmorrissey? It looks like it even allows for a couple of free-flowing u-turns.

fresca

KevR wrote: »

Just saw this full free-flow interchange in Dubai, I suppose it's a much more high powered version of the N4/M50 interchange. Anyone else think something like this would be perfect for Rathmorrissey? It looks like it even allows for a couple of free-flowing u-turns.

one of the coolest...

The Sheikh Zayed road is serious all right - most of the skyscrapers are on it and you can see the burj and its shadow a bit further north.

KevR

http://www.galwaynews.ie/11785-plans-lodged-develop-quarry-kilskeagh

Galway News wrote:

PLANS LODGED TO DEVELOP QUARRY AT KILSKEAGH

March 14, 2010 - 1:32pm

Plans have been lodged with Galway County Council to excavate a quarry at Kilskeagh, Athenry.

Enda Mooney and Jim Rabbitte are hoping to open a quarry to serve the construction of the M17 Motorway.

The Kilskeagh quarry plan says there will be direct access to the M17 Motorway from the quarry which will reduce the number of vehicles on the regional road between Athenry and Craughwell.

The Athenry-Craughwell road was badly damaged by trucks when the M6 was being built. Not sure if any resurfacing work has been done on it since the M6 opened. The company who built the M6 were/are supposed to carry out repair work on regional roads which they badly damaged.

It would be good if this quarry opened and it reduced the number of construction traffic on regional roads. Wouldn't like to see the same regional roads get destroyed again (if they have been repaired) or desroyed further (if they haven't been repaired).

Tech3

More news on the Gort-Tuam PPP lately. This was included in the announcement that EIB usually do, it will be great if they do decide to part fund this. Knowing that Galway-Limerick would be fully completed with DC/motorway standard road by this scheme would be a great incentive to just throw a few million at saying that the EU helped again.

Possible Cash Injection For Gort-Tuam Motorway Project

The Vice-president of the European Investment Bank, Plutarchos Sakellaris says his institution is examining the possibility of part-funding the proposed N17- N18 Gort to Tuam Public Private Partnership motorway project.

If completed this would form part of a second western transport corridor between Cork, Limerick and Galway. The proposed Public Private Partnership N 17-N18 Gort to Tuam road project will complete the existing single carriage-way and result in significant improvements in safety and speed.

Speaking at the European Commission offices in Ireland, Plutarchos Sakellaris said, “The European Investment Bank has invested over EUR 1 billion in Ireland, a record level of support for projects in the country. We wish to enhance the successful cooperation with public bodies, leading companies and SMEs in Ireland to ensure that key capital investment continues during challenging difficult times. We are confident that industry, transport, social infrastructure, health and education will continue to benefit from EIB support in coming years.”

Mr Plutarchos was in Dublin for discussions with Finance Minister Brian Lenihan, Governor of the Central Bank of Ireland, Patrick Honohan, Transport Minister Noel Dempsey, the Financial Services Regulatory authority and other officials and business leaders to see how the EIB can best support Ireland and ensure continued investment in key infrastructure during challenging times.

I dont see him saying anything about the M17/M18 though on his speech?

Link

trepasers

Hello...Just wondering when this scheme is goin to/ hope to start ???

Tech3

trepasers wrote: »

Hello...Just wondering when this scheme is goin to/ hope to start ???

Either late 2010 or early 2011. More than likely to see diggers on site February 2011 thats IF funding is recieved for the project.

antoobrien

tech2 wrote: »

Either late 2010 or early 2011. More than likely to see diggers on site February 2011 thats IF funding is received for the project.

I don't think (or rather don't remember if) the tender has been awarded yet. Last I heard there were 2 consortia left. It'll 'start' on the date the tender is signed and construction usually starts within 3-6 months after that. If I recall correctly, the tender is supposed to be awarded sometime around October/November

123easy

Who are the final two contractors in the bidding for this is it Ascon & Sisk-Roadbridge.

Anybody know what consultants are providing Design services to the two contractors?

Tech3

antoobrien wrote: »

I don't think (or rather don't remember if) the tender has been awarded yet.

I never said it was awarded. Anyway I'm after looking up how much the EIB are going to part-finance this project. It's supposedly going to cost 530 million euro and the EIB are looking to finance up to 170 million euro.

See here: link

Sponge Bob

The EIB will be the top grade investor and the scheme can then be floated off as an investment grade bond with an AAA rating.

Their participation reduces risk and long term cost.

Once the panic is over on the financial markets the EIB pulls out when the others are back to AAA...or at least that is the theory.

They are not backing the Interconnector but are backing metro North

10/03/2010 Dublin Metro PPP Ireland Transports Under appraisal
23/02/2010 N17-N18 Gort to Tuam PPP Motorway Ireland Transport Under appraisal
10/07/2009 Bord Gais Whitegate CCGT Ireland Energy Approved
02/06/2009 Dublin Airport Terminal 2 (TEN) Ireland Services Signed

black47

See info below copied from post in N11/Newlands Cross forum. Latest on Gort/Tuam is highlighted in bold. My understanding of Financial Close in PPP projects is that construction starts immediately afterwards. This would be great news if Gort/Tuam could start this year.

This snippet from the Public Accounts committee, 22 April 2010:

Second Roads PPP Programme
There are four schemes currently planned in the National Roads Authority Second Roads PPP programme.

Three of which are now in procurement, namely:

1. N17/N18 Scheme (Gort to Tuam)
Indicative financial close for this scheme is October 2010.

2. N7/N11 Scheme (Arklow, Rathnew and Newlands Cross)
Indicative financial close for this scheme is Q4 2010.

3. M11/M25 Scheme (Gorey to Enniscorthy, New Ross Bypass)
The scheme has recently launched.

The fourth scheme the M20 (Limerick to Cork – Southern Section) is expected to launch over the next few months.

Chris_5339762

Yup -

N17/18 - Q1 2011 start
N7/11 - Q2 2011
M11/N25 - Cant remember offhand
M20 S - Q1 2012 start (possibly)

Again, who knows though.

Tech3

Anyone else notice there will be yet another LILO on the M18 this time the Kiltiernan junction on the Gort-Oranmore scheme. It will make a total of 4 LILO's on the future M18 and half a LILO at Gort(if there was such a thing before)