The Metal Detecting Debate. Keep all your MD questions and querys here!

slowburner

Hi to you too.
Oh I am perfectly willing to engage in 'sensible discussion'.
Let's keep it that way, shall we?
Calling me names and referring to my previous post as 'bigotted and immature' (sic), is not 'sensible discussion' it is argument ad hominem.

I stand by my statement that illegal metal detectorists couldn't care less about heritage.
If someone is prepared to break a law or laws, designed to protect something - then it necessarily follows that they do not respect the thing the laws are designed to protect.
Does someone who drives under the influence of alcohol respect the safety of other road users?
By refusing to abide by the law you necessarily demonstrate that you do not accept the principles and reasons for the enactment of the law. In this case, protection of Ireland's heritage is the reason for the enactment of the law.
Put simply, if you do not respect the laws, you do not respect the heritage.

A 'detectorphobe', as you call me, would be someone who is afraid of metal detectors.
I am not afraid of metal detectors nor am I afraid of the people who use these machines; that would be silly, but I do mistrust people who refuse to accept the legitimacy of the law, and I mistrust their motivation.

I am afraid of the misguided, misanthropic, solipsistic stubbornness of the people who willfully and repeatedly break the laws designed to protect the archaeological heritage of Ireland.
I am afraid of the fact that metal detectorists refuse to see the sound reasons for the existence of these laws.
I am afraid of the fact that metal detectorists for some bizarre reason, resent archaeologists - the professionals charged with scientific investigation of our history and ultimately, the preservation of our heritage.
I am afraid of the people who use these machines to collect metal artifacts for their personal collections, or those who hunt these artifacts for financial gain.
I am afraid of the ignorance and lack of education of the people who deliberately flout these laws.
I am afraid of the fact that metal detectorists believe they have a God given right to dig holes wherever they think there might be something they can take.
Above all, I am afraid that I find it very difficult to believe that people who buy and use a metal detector, genuinely have the best interests of Irish heritage at heart.
It might be too late, or too expensive, or too difficult for some people with a genuine interest in archaeology to study the subject formally - but just because a person has not got the resources to become professionally qualified, is no justification for buying a machine and digging holes.
There are a myriad of other ways to become constructively rather than destructively involved in the exploration of Irish heritage.

If you can answer this simple question, we might be able to have a discussion rather than name calling.

Why do you need to use a metal detector to explore your so-called interest in heritage?

kajo

Kerry Radio Debate


Ron Byrne (AMDAI) Amateur Metal Detectors Association Of Ireland

Eamonn Kelly Keeper of Irish Antiquities at the National Museum

The archaeologist came across as aggressive and wanting it all his way.
He made a major effort to scaremonger those who might enjoy the hobby and went on to stereotype all metal detectorists.
Ron Byrne had his facts bang on and came across as a guy who knew his stuff and reasonable in his approach the archaeologist was full of guff.
Its clear from the interview that Mr Kelly likes to play with words and quote the law a lot without explaining the details.
The law quoted was just not relevant in the debate as it was already made clear Ron Byrne knew the law and wanted to abide by the law of the land.
A number of incidents were mentioned in the interview the derrynaflan chalice something that happened well over 30 years ago things have moved on.
Another one was a man arrested for illegally detecting on laytown beach about 12 years ago.
Mr Kelly never said why the man was arrested leading you to think all metal detecting on beaches is illegal and that is just not the case.
It turns out the man was arrested for metal detecting within 100 yards of an ancient passage grave and the man was here on holiday and did not know the area.
Eamonn never said it was illegal to buy own use or sell a metal detector.
This quoting of the law is eamonns and the museums way of intimidating people who don't know the law.
They spew the same quote out in their letters their way of keeping the metal detecting hobbyists scared and it works.
Their methods are crude and deceitful but effective just look around the internet and you can see the results.

Its amusing to hear Mr Kelly broadcast that you will get loads of money if you report finds on your own land.
We don't have a pot to pee in at the moment in this country and this man is offering rewards.
Blows away all that hot air the arch guys here go on about detectorists only wanting the money.... sure Mr Kelly wants to give you money.
A lot archaeologists are trying to maintain their own play ground a bit like the monkey with his hand in the jar.
I dont trust archaeologists or their so called students / helpers and i would not be surprised if this was one of the backdoors to the black market / ebay.
Ask most students what would they do if they found a €5 on the ground now think what they might do if they found a gold coin in a field.

Lets make it clear keep away from places that hold archaeological interests and research before you detect .. beach or land.


THE INTERVIEW
http://www.metacafe.com/watch/8401144/metal_detecting/

slowburner

The 16 minute radio interview does not contain any of the 'dialogue' quoted above.
It needs to be pointed out that this is exclusively an opinion of Ron Byrne's, which was made elsewhere.

Link, please?

kajo

Do you have a problem with your hearing? or your eyesight?

Fighting Irish

RollYerOwn wrote: »

As has been reiterated before.... Metal detectors detect to that depth - but that doesn't mean that a metal detectorist is going to dig only to that depth or move on from that location if successful.

If something of significance was discovered, a metal detectorist will more than likely dig a bit deeper and wider.

He asked a question, i answered it!

RollYerOwn wrote: »

If something of significance was discovered, a metal detectorist will more than likely dig a bit deeper and wider.

Way to generalise!

Fighting Irish

slowburner wrote: »

The 16 minute radio interview does not contain any of the 'dialogue' quoted above.
It needs to be pointed out that this is exclusively an opinion of Ron Byrne's, which was made elsewhere.

Link, please?

http://www.mirrorcreator.com/files/0LLHZWXX/radio_-_detectors.mp3_links

slowburner

kajo wrote: »

Do you have a problem with your hearing? or your eyesight?

No, I have no problems with either.
The way you structured your post, looked as if you were quoting from the radio interview.

kajo wrote: »

I dont trust archaeologists or their so called students / helpers and i would not be surprised if this was one of the backdoors to the black market / ebay.

Carry on, I would love to hear some more of these intelligent opinions - you are doing a great job of fighting the cause for metal detecting.

kajo

Carry on, I would love to hear some more of these intelligent opinions - you are doing a great job of fighting the cause for metal detecting.

I don't feel the need to fight any cause the law is the law we enjoy the hobby within the law so we can Metal Detect all we want.

Gee Bag

kajo wrote: »

A lot archaeologists are trying to maintain their own play ground a bit like the monkey with his hand in the jar.
I dont trust archaeologists or their so called students / helpers and i would not be surprised if this was one of the backdoors to the black market / ebay.
Ask most students what would they do if they found a €5 on the ground now think what they might do if they found a gold coin in a field.

Blah, blah, blah, blah,

I see from your other posts that your a Dublin taxi-driver. I don't like or trust an awful lot of those in your chosen profession (and I've probably met a hell of a lot more taxi-drivers than you have archies), but I don't go onto your threads or forums and insult them.

Fighting Irish

Gee Bag wrote: »

Blah, blah, blah, blah,

I see from your other posts that your a Dublin taxi-driver. I don't like or trust an awful lot of those in your chosen profession (and I've probably met a hell of a lot more taxi-drivers than you have archies), but I don't go onto your threads or forums and insult them.

I think he is pointing out that all archs are humans and there are bad eggs everywhere

kajo

I would love to know how many people received a payment for reporting finds of archaeological objects since 1987.

Gee Bag

Fighting Irish wrote: »

I think he is pointing out that all archs are humans and there are bad eggs everywhere

"I dont trust archaeologists or their so called students / helpers"

I think the language used here is pretty clear and lacking in any ambiguity

Fighting Irish

Gee Bag wrote: »

"I dont trust archaeologists or their so called students / helpers"

I think the language used here is pretty clear and lacking in any ambiguity

Ah right, i see, obviously he is being stupid saying all archs are bad

Fighting Irish

kajo wrote: »

I would love to know how many people received a payment for reporting finds of archaeological objects since 1987.

In for this as well

mocmo

You would have to ask the National Museum, it's no secret that they give payments for legitimate finds. I have indirect experience of this programme and they frequently give generous amounts.

kajo

mocmo wrote: »

You would have to ask the National Museum, it's no secret that they give payments for legitimate finds. I have indirect experience of this programme and they frequently give generous amounts.

Did you ever try ask them that kind of question? and while you are at it try ask how many of those who reported finds using a metal detector received a payment or acknowledgement of their good deed.

mocmo

I didn't ask the question, I was merely responding to your query and suggesting how you might find the information you are looking for.

kajo

They don't appear to like people asking questions without full knowledge of who you are and why you want the information.
I take exception to anybody who would interfere with my legal right to enjoy my hobby.
A lot of people would see archaeologists as nothing more than grave robbers but thats not my opinion.

The Jammy dodger

kajo wrote: »

They don't appear to like people asking questions without full knowledge of who you are and why you want the information.
I take exception to anybody who would interfere with my legal right to enjoy my hobby.
A lot of people would see archaeologists as nothing more than grave robbers but thats not my opinion.

A lot of Arch's could say the same thing to them. Archs are much more trained in the eye and in mind through college so that when they find something they know what it is and it wont be treated with disrespect. Unlike us who are not trained. It sounds like they are the ones wanting to cash in all the more than the Archy boys.

kajo

The Jammy dodger wrote: »

A lot of Arch's could say the same thing to them. Archs are much more trained in the eye and in mind through college so that when they find something they know what it is and it wont be treated with disrespect. Unlike us who are not trained. It sounds like they are the ones wanting to cash in all the more than the Archy boys.

Don't know what you mean the guys talking about money are the archaeologists.
Hell of a lot of guys are metal detecting 30 years and more and they know stuff college can't teach you.
I have yet to see any archaeologists refuse a photo opportunity in the media for something they did not find... glory hunters.
Maybe you should take a read of this and see just how much our archaeologists care about our history.

No record of the Famine in the National Museum

Michael Blanche, a Dublin taxi driver and the founder of the Committee for the Commemoration of Irish Famine Victims, had travelled from Dublin for the occasion. Blanche recently staged demonstrations accusing Minister for Justice Alan Shatter of denying Famine victims because he did not include them in a commemoration of the Holocaust.

“You’re not going to protest here,” Minister for Arts, Heritage and the Gaeltacht Jimmy Deenihan warned, as Blanche followed the President down the line, shaking hands. “There is no record of the Famine in the National Museum of Ireland,” Blanche complained to me.


http://www.irishtimes.com/newspaper/world/2012/0507/1224315687190.html

slowburner

kajo wrote: »

.....Hell of a lot of guys are metal detecting 30 years and more and they know stuff college can't teach you.

Such as?

I have yet to see any archaeologists refuse a photo opportunity in the media for something they did not find... glory hunters.
Maybe you should take a read of this and see just how much our archaeologists care about our history.

You omitted this part from the article;

Blanche was pleased with Saturday’s events: “The amnesia is lifting. The hall was full. The President gave a great speech. He’s the people’s president, elected overwhelmingly by the people. He’ll do the country proud.”

Mr.Blanche is probably correct in his belief that the famine is underrepresented at a national level, although I believe it is well commemorated at a local level (see here). I happen to agree with him, but I would not 'stalk' the president at an international event to make the point.
This event, and what is, or is not chosen for display in the National Museum, has got nothing to do with archaeologists.

kajo

slowburner wrote: »

This event, and what is, or is not chosen for display in the National Museum, has got nothing to do with archaeologists.

Who do you think is in charge of the National Museum?
Its only because of the taxi driver that people are now aware that millions were forgotten.
I provided a link to the article what more do you want?

slowburner

kajo wrote: »

Its only because of the taxi driver that people are now aware that millions were forgotten.

Oh dear. I think this statement reflects your grasp of Irish history.

You have also failed to give examples of the 'stuff' that metal detectorists 'know'.

Gee Bag

kajo wrote: »

Don't know what you mean the guys talking about money are the archaeologists.
Hell of a lot of guys are metal detecting 30 years and more and they know stuff college can't teach you.
I have yet to see any archaeologists refuse a photo opportunity in the media for something they did not find... glory hunters.
Maybe you should take a read of this and see just how much our archaeologists care about our history.

Well duh, if they turn down the photo oppurtunity your not going to see them in the media....

Not everyone in the National Museum is an archaeologist. In general terms, archaeologists look at stuff a lot older in date than the famine.

Your repeated posting in this forum insulting the integrity of all archaeologists is just trolling at this stage.

kajo

Ok lets keep it real simple just so all the people who read this understand.
Its legal to own a metal detector and use a metal detector anyplace in Ireland providing you abide by a few rules such as not to detect near a monument- archaeological site or use your metal detector to find archaeological objects.
Do we all agree on that or not?

kajo

sorry double post

Judgement Day

kajo wrote: »

Ok lets keep it real simple just so all the people who read this understand.
Its legal to own a metal detector and use a metal detector anyplace in Ireland providing you abide by a few rules such as not to detect near a monument- archaeological site or use your metal detector to find archaeological objects.
Do we all agree on that or not?

How about on private property? Your posting is not doing your hobby any favours in my opinion.

Fighting Irish

kajo wrote: »

Ok lets keep it real simple just so all the people who read this understand.
Its legal to own a metal detector and use a metal detector anyplace in Ireland providing you abide by a few rules such as not to detect near a monument- archaeological site or use your metal detector to find archaeological objects.
Do we all agree on that or not?

I think the law says it's legal as long as you aren't MDing for arch. objects, so in theory you'd have to prove you weren't searching for arch. objects which is impossible?

Fighting Irish

Judgement Day wrote: »

How about on private property? Your posting is not doing your hobby any favours in my opinion.

Such a stupid question!

Judgement Day

Fighting Irish wrote: »

Such a stupid question!

It was in answer to a pretty stupid statement.