The Metal Detecting Debate. Keep all your MD questions and querys here!

Gee Bag

patwicklow wrote: »

Well it sould be more updated i got a metal detector for xmax gave it away as i did want to be deemed (and the criminals who use them here) as stated in other posts they sould be banned out right and taxes sould not be collected on them.

Pat,
The reason why MD's are illegal for use without an archaeological excavation licence has been given repeatedly in this thread. I have never heard one archaeologist argue in favour of this ban being lifted.

The sale of MD's can not be banned as they have other practical applications (eg. engineers, industry etc.)

RollYerOwn

In fairness I agree with PatWicklow that its very unfair for maplins to sell MDs in Ireland when they (to all intents and purposes) require a licence (which most people are unlikely to be given). It's not like a car - which everyone knows you need a licence to drive (and are more freely given). It should be incumbent on them to explain to a customer what the legal requirements are.

patwicklow

So if there sold here for plumers ect why does every package of them have coins and fields printed on them?? there not marketed at the plumbers
so really in all its false advertising in a way and they collect taxes on it by allowing them to be sold.

Gee Bag

Fair enough lads,

I'll agree with you that Maplins should not be selling them with the implication that they can be used for treasure hunting. They probably sell heaps of the things in the UK and think that its the same legal situation applies here.

What I meant by pointing out that they have other uses is that it would be next to impossible to come up with an exact definition which would ban just MDs as the same basic technology has so many other uses. Like when you go through security checks at an airport.

It was easier/more logical to prohibit the activities that MD technology could be used for than to ban their sale outright.

Jakub25

Minelab is supporting most of people,
all they want to sell a lot.
They have new biger factory.

Some pictures promote treasure hunting at minelab website.

slowburner

Jakub25 wrote: »

Minelab is supporting most of people,
all they want to sell a lot.
They have new biger factory.

Some pictures promote treasure hunting at minelab website.

Could there be a more clear illustration of Patwicklow's point?

Pat has raised an important issue.
Advertising or implying that metal detectors can or should be used for so-called treasure hunting needs to be addressed.

patwicklow

Well that really is laughable did,nt even know they were making md here in ireland and dont see much on there website for engineers, industry etc all geared for treasure hunting so they can be made here but can not be used
and to me that company is breaking the law by advertising them here!

RollYerOwn

I thought this was somewhat amusing.

http://conormchale.blogspot.com/2012/01/metal-detecting.html?spref=fb

RollYerOwn

I fail to see how this could be any clearer...

National Monuments Act 1987 Section 2

http://www.irishstatutebook.ie/1987/en/act/pub/0017/print.html#sec2

2.—(1) Subject to the provisions of this section a person shall not—

(a) use or be in possession of a detection device—

(i) in, or at the site of, a monument of which the Commissioners or a local authority are the owners or guardians or in respect of which a preservation order is in force or which stands registered in the Register, or

(ii) in an archaeological area that stands registered in the Register, or

(iii) in a restricted area,

or

(b) use, at a place other than a place specified in paragraph (a) of this subsection, a detection device for the purpose of searching for archaeological objects, or

(c) promote, whether by advertising or otherwise, the sale or use of detection devices for the purpose of searching for archaeological objects.

slowburner

I was in the process of lodging a complaint with the Advertising Standards Authority but when filling out the form, I realised that I hadn't actually seen advertising from this company in Ireland.
Maybe someone who has seen the advertising, should fight the good fight and let us know how they get on?
Alternatively, if someone can point me to evidence of this advertising - in Ireland - I will carry on with the complaint.
I don't know if international online advertising falls within the remit of the ASI but there is no harm in bringing it to their attention, given the clarity of the legislation.

http://www.asai.ie/complain.asp

Fighting Irish

You can use them aslong as you aren't

- in an archaeological area that stands registered in the Register, or

- in a restricted area,

- for the purpose of searching for archaeological objects

Fighting Irish

Are minelab selling in Ireland? I don't think so. Their website is .com not .ie

RollYerOwn

Fighting Irish wrote: »

You can use them aslong as you aren't

- in an archaeological area that stands registered in the Register, or

- in a restricted area,

- for the purpose of searching for archaeological objects

But I believe the presumption is that you are you using it to search for archaeological objects unless you can prove otherwise. Good luck with that as legally there is no cut-off date for archaeological objects.

RollYerOwn

http://www.britarch.ac.uk/ba/ba116/feat1.shtml

Just think how much this money will benefit that deserving little metal detectorist. Good job those pesky locals with their fund-raisers and their children's piggy banks didn't get it - who would that benefit? Sitting in a museum where people can only look at it and learn about what the Romans ever did for us...

:mad:

kajo

Its all a big fuss over nothing it's just hobby with no intent to commit crime.
Another over the top reaction by the government to an easy fix problem.

I see an opportunity to regulate and inform and the government send it underground.
Then we wonder why our kids have nothing to do? mad mad.
Its time for change in the law recreation is an activity of leisure let us enjoy our hobby.
Regulate us but don't send us underground or turn our hobby into a crime.



http://irishmetaldetecting.com/

Maudi

Fighting Irish wrote: »

You can use them aslong as you aren't

- in an archaeological area that stands registered in the Register, or

- in a restricted area,

- for the purpose of searching for archaeological objects

the past is out there for everybody to discover not just the 'elite'....the past is there for everybody....instead of harping on and on about minelab and who should and shouldnt be using metal detectors how about putting your energy into promoting a responsible attitude to an interesting and popular hobby...I DONT do it before you all start..if i did want to id be more than agreeable to not mding any where national monuments...apart from that id like to think i wouldnt have to be afraid to come foward with something of importance id found that would have otherwise STAYED buried..promote it so folks are educated and will be responsible to record and report finds that can be then taken over by the 'professionals' i sometimes think with archy types its "were not gona look for it.and we dont want you looking either.

Gee Bag

kajo wrote: »

Its all a big fuss over nothing it's just hobby with no intent to commit crime.
Another over the top reaction by the government to an easy fix problem.

I see an opportunity to regulate and inform and the government send it underground.
Then we wonder why our kids have nothing to do? mad mad.
Its time for change in the law recreation is an activity of leisure let us enjoy our hobby.
Regulate us but don't send us underground or turn our hobby into a crime.

Oh will somebody please think of the children!

Your hobby is already a crime.

For anyone who still thinks the Irish position re. metal detecting is unique then have a look at the link below. I was lazy and I took it straight from an MD site (but I promise I'll report it to the authorities later).

http://www.ncmd.co.uk/law.html

RollYerOwn

Gee Bag wrote: »

Oh will somebody please think of the children!

Your hobby is already a crime.

.. and has been for a quarter of a century...

RollYerOwn

Maudi wrote: »

the past is out there for everybody to discover not just the 'elite'....the past is there for everybody....instead of harping on and on about minelab and who should and shouldnt be using metal detectors how about putting your energy into promoting a responsible attitude to an interesting and popular hobby...I DONT do it before you all start..if i did want to id be more than agreeable to not mding any where national monuments...

I'm afraid you simply don't have any argument here. You want to change existing legislation.... So let's think about that..

You seem to think "the past is there for everyone"... but yet you would presumably turn your nose up at people taking shovels along to Tara and digging it up for themselves? Or perhaps you would allow that? Apparently not as you later appear to say "not at a National Monument". But what about the thousands upon thousands of upstanding sites throughout the country that are not National Monuments? Should they become a free for all? Should everybody be allowed to go in, dig them up with a JCB/shovel/(suggest your own method here)?

Maudi wrote: »

apart from that id like to think i wouldnt have to be afraid to come foward with something of importance id found that would have otherwise STAYED buried..

Responsible landowners and chance discoverers of artefacts frequently DO report them as they are obliged by the law. You're talking about deliberately setting out to find stuff that lies undisturbed and secure - to be found by whatever activity takes place that will turn it up in the future - and with modern legislation may well be found by an archaeologist prior to a developer.

So, over the years, thousands of minimally interesting, financially reasonably worthless, individual 2000 year old copper alloy brooches across the country would be robbed from their contexts, stuffed in a museum with no additional knowledge gained - saving perhaps their location.

There will be NO excavation of the features that they were found in, NO knowledge of the site they came from and NO secure radiocarbon date that narrows the date range of such artefacts. Following that, in another few years perhaps when things pick up economically, there will be some developer who wants to turn that particular field into a suburban estate. The archaeologists will be called in as part of the planning legislation, the site will be found by them ... and will be found to be riddled with holes and pits dug by metal detectorists that contaminate the available information.

When that excavation is written up in a local historical journal, local people will be p[ssed off that their heritage was ransacked by some dude who fancied a trinket for the cabinet, or (presuming better intentions) his picture in the local paper holding up a small brasso-scrubbed piece of bronze, shining for all to see - for a day, before being packed away in a box in a store-room.

Having trained people to excavate for over a decade I can tell you that it doesn't take a short amount of time to learn and understand the processes involved in getting every piece of information available from even the simplest of objects - metal or not - and having worked alongside people in the construction industry and farmers alike, people have a funny idea about how things get in the ground in the first place. I like to try and change that.

It is likely that most people's understanding about the context of an artefact is a misunderstanding. By robbing the small glittery pieces from a site with a metal detector you are smashing up a stained glass window to take home the picture.

Maudi wrote: »

...promote it so folks are educated and will be responsible to record and report finds that can be then taken over by the 'professionals' i sometimes think with archy types its "were not gona look for it.and we dont want you looking either.

We look for it only when it is at risk of being destroyed by a development or some other destructive practice, so that as much information as exists is recorded prior to development taking place. The developer pays for this (as "the polluter" as part of planning legislation) so the tax payer doesn't have to.

Another misapprehension - professionals who can "take over"? Except in a historic handful of cases (when something interesting enough for the small National Museum staff to have a day out to excavate) there is no money to pay for an excavation where there is no intention to build something... so the site will remain as it was.. except for the large holes dug by the disappointed treasure hunters and the missing pieces of the puzzle that are either in the National Museum, or are in someone's third drawer down with the golf balls and Aunty Mary's false teeth.

Perhaps you should try and understand what's involved in protecting the heritage of this country before you try and revise the legislation? If you were truly interested you might join a local archaeology group.

Wibbs

TBH I would have been a half arsed supporter of MD in the past, but not now. I used to collect fossils as a kid and a few years ago I found my old notebooks. I'd always go for items that had eroded out first, but if anything was in situ and I could safely remove it, I had written precise measurements as to what layer they were in and where. 30 years later I could walk you to within a foot of where I found the fossil. Even as a weird kid of 10 I knew this was vitally important.

In seeking to discover the past context is everything. A soggy lump of worked wood with context is worth far more scientifically than a gold brooch without it.

Even if we want to be crass about it, context makes a big diff from a monetary value point of view too. An antiquity with provenance and context is worth far more in euros and cents than one without.

Maudi

RollYerOwn wrote: »

I'm afraid you simply don't have any argument here. You want to change existing legislation.... So let's think about that..

You seem to think "the past is there for everyone"... but yet you would presumably turn your nose up at people taking shovels along to Tara and digging it up for themselves? Or perhaps you would allow that? Apparently not as you later appear to say "not at a National Monument". But what about the thousands upon thousands of upstanding sites throughout the country that are not National Monuments? Should they become a free for all? Should everybody be allowed to go in, dig them up with a JCB/shovel/(suggest your own method here

















Responsible landowners and chance discoverers of artefacts frequently DO report them as they are obliged by the law. You're talking about deliberately setting out to find stuff that lies undisturbed and secure - to be found by whatever activity takes place that will turn it up in the future - and with modern legislation may well be found by an archaeologist prior to a developer.

So, over the years, thousands of minimally interesting, financially reasonably worthless, individual 2000 year old copper alloy brooches across the country would be robbed from their contexts, stuffed in a museum with no additional knowledge gained - saving perhaps their location.

There will be NO excavation of the features that they were found in, NO knowledge of the site they came from and NO secure radiocarbon date that narrows the date range of such artefacts. Following that, in another few years perhaps when things pick up economically, there will be some developer who wants to turn that particular field into a suburban estate. The archaeologists will be called in as part of the planning legislation, the site will be found by them ... and will be found to be riddled with holes and pits dug by metal detectorists that contaminate the available information.

When that excavation is written up in a local historical journal, local people will be p[ssed off that their heritage was ransacked by some dude who fancied a trinket for the cabinet, or (presuming better intentions) his picture in the local paper holding up a small brasso-scrubbed piece of bronze, shining for all to see - for a day, before being packed away in a box in a store-room.

Having trained people to excavate for over a decade I can tell you that it doesn't take a short amount of time to learn and understand the processes involved in getting every piece of information available from even the simplest of objects - metal or not - and having worked alongside people in the construction industry and farmers alike, people have a funny idea about how things get in the ground in the first place. I like to try and change that.

It is likely that most people's understanding about the context of an artefact is a misunderstanding. By robbing the small glittery pieces from a site with a metal detector you are smashing up a stained glass window to take home the picture.



We look for it only when it is at risk of being destroyed by a development or some other destructive practice, so that as much information as exists is recorded prior to development taking place. The developer pays for this (as "the polluter" as part of planning legislation) so the tax payer doesn't have to.

Another misapprehension - professionals who can "take over"? Except in a historic handful of cases (when something interesting enough for the small National Museum staff to have a day out to excavate) there is no money to pay for an excavation where there is no intention to build something... so the site will remain as it was.. except for the large holes dug by the disappointed treasure hunters and the missing pieces of the puzzle that are either in the National Museum, or are in someone's third drawer down with the golf balls and Aunty Mary's false teeth.

Perhaps you should try and understand what's involve[d in protecting the heritage of this country before you try and revise the legislation? If you were truly interested you might join a local archaeology group.

sir respectfully..nobody owns the past.its there to be discovered by everyone..and your suggestion about joining a class ,,unless you are a trained career guideance teacher which i doubt, you can take that back..funny you should bring up jcbs( your suggestion) not mine.the favourite tool not of amateurs but the trained professionals we have all seen on tv...ive work for many years in construction including road building so im in the priviliged position to have been present at many amazing finds,and i know exactly what goes on on......one conclusion i {and a lot of people}ive talked to is your never going to stop people mding,but control is possible and benificial,,think of the great work done in africa re conservation,,going nowhere till some one twigged .... include the poachers ,make the poachers game keepers,,,make the poachers game keepers...ok so licence is required,,training,,and encourage responsible usage,,including reporting mding out side agreed areas..lets work together,,dont alienate and criminalise ameuteur enthusiasts (and lets stop refering to folks as treasure hunters..how would you like to be referred to as grave robbers,,only a fool would argue that this approach wouldnt work to at least help the problem...but thats just my opinion...

DeepSleeper

Maudi wrote: »

sir respectfully..nobody owns the past.its there to be discovered by everyone..and your suggestion about joining a class ,,unless you are a trained career guideance teacher which i doubt, you can take that back..funny you should bring up jcbs( your suggestion) not mine.the favourite tool not of amateurs but the trained professionals we have all seen on tv...ive work for many years in construction including road building so im in the priviliged position to have been present at many amazing finds,and i know exactly what goes on on......one conclusion i {and a lot of people}ive talked to is your never going to stop people mding,but control is possible and benificial,,think of the great work done in africa re conservation,,going nowhere till some one twigged .... include the poachers ,make the poachers game keepers,,,make the poachers game keepers...ok so licence is required,,training,,and encourage responsible usage,,including reporting mding out side agreed areas..lets work together,,dont alienate and criminalise ameuteur enthusiasts (and lets stop refering to folks as treasure hunters..how would you like to be referred to as grave robbers,,only a fool would argue that this approach wouldnt work to at least help the problem...but thats just my opinion...

There is one serious, fundamental flaw in your arguement there Maudi - you take the conversion of poachers into gamekeepers in Africa as an example of how things might work.... The reason this worked is that poor, unpaid poachers were given paid work as conservation-driven gamekeepers - in other words, the gave up their illegal activity and turned to protecting the finite, delicate resource that they had previously plundered... Are you suggesting metal detectors should do the same?

And your rejection of the suggestion to join a class on the basis that the advice doesn't appear to come from a career-guidance specialist? Well, who said the class should lead to a career? Education can be enlightening, but does not need to be career-focussed...

PHIDIAS

I honestly never knew metal detecting was illegal in ireland, i grew up in the west of ireland my dad had a detector in 1978/79 that i used to sneek of with when ever i could. My brothers were allowed to have it freely so i would snag it and bolt for the hills. And since then i have been really interested in archaeology, love reading about great finds. Only ever found coins but some really old ones if i remember correctly. Have no idea where they are now though. Family fortune gone down the drain probably.

RollYerOwn

Maudi wrote: »

sir respectfully..nobody owns the past.its there to be discovered by everyone..and your suggestion about joining a class ,,unless you are a trained career guideance teacher which i doubt, you can take that back..

Respectfully, back, but the heritage by law is owned by the State. Arguing that you don't think it should be is akin to anyone else arguing for a change in the law regarding, say, property ownership - it's a matter of opinion, but it doesn't change the law.

Career guidance? I don't know why you think I'm advising you to become an archaeologist - I wouldn't advise anyone to do that in the current climate. I was referring to being educated as an interest, as an amateur enthusiast.

Maudi wrote: »

funny you should bring up jcbs( your suggestion) not mine.the favourite tool not of amateurs but the trained professionals we have all seen on tv...

sorry... what's jcbs?

Maudi wrote: »

ive work for many years in construction including road building so im in the priviliged position to have been present at many amazing finds,and i know exactly what goes on on......

Then you are in a privileged position enough to refute any of the arguments I have made... In my experience it is incredibly difficult for many people to understand what the hell is going on and why in developer-led archaeology. I have worked alongside construction, practically within the industry itself, for a long time and whilst I have many a conversation and strategy meeting with engineers, surveyors, digger drivers, landowners, farmers and all sorts I don't presume to understand EXACTLY what is going on from their perspective.

Maudi wrote: »

one conclusion i {and a lot of people}ive talked to is your never going to stop people mding,but control is possible and benificial,,think of the great work done in africa re conservation,,going nowhere till some one twigged .... include the poachers ,make the poachers game keepers,,,make the poachers game keepers...

The conservation of Africa's heritage started when they criminalised the wholesale slaughter of what are now protected species. That's why they identified "poachers" (note the westerners when they did it, prior to it being illegal, were referred to as ("Game Hunters"). The reason they have ex-poachers being paid to be Game Wardens and Rangers is because there are STILL poachers - so yes, it's good enough analogy, but it falls down because there is relatively little financial reward to metal detecting to justify the efforts and because we therefore don't have a significant enough problem to have to police our heritage separately.

Maudi wrote: »

ok so licence is required,,training,,and encourage responsible usage,,including reporting mding out side agreed areas..lets work together,,dont alienate and criminalise ameuteur enthusiasts (and lets stop refering to folks as treasure hunters..how would you like to be referred to as grave robbers,,

:rolleyes: Once again, the amateur enthusiasts are already criminals if they metal detect - it's not that I'm seeking to change anything that doesn't exist already as it's been the law for 25 years.

If you don't like the term treasure hunter then what would you prefer? It isn't archaeology, it is looking for something interesting by destroying something else. You haven't dealt with any of my arguments that make the case for this so I will still refer to metal detectorists as "treasure hunters" until you give me a reason not to. I have already made the case why archaeologists are not Grave Robbers in the previous post (we excavate bodies only prior to their destruction by developers - not out of a casual interest).

Maudi wrote: »

only a fool would argue that this approach wouldnt work to at least help the problem...but thats just my opinion...

I presume you are referring to the 'poacher-turned-Game Keeper' analogy you made earlier - does this work by allowing some people the right to go and dig up the metal bits of our heritage but not other people? Call me a fool then , but why and how is this going to help the presumably rather marginal problem of illicit metal detecting?

HappyHammered

Hi Board, I have followed this discussion for nearly twelve months now and I feel we are getting nowhere near coming to a solution with regards the use of metal detectors whether legally or illegally.

I have metal detected on and off for over twelve years and as far as our antiquated laws go on metal detecting, I have always tried to stay on the right side of the law.

I love metal detecting and I love the feeling I get when my machine registers metal in the ground - whether it’s a rusty nail, a horse shoe or a part of MY PAST. I don't consider myself a TREASURE HUNTER and take offence at being called a CRIMINAL. I love history and I take the time to log and record all my finds, no matter how small.

Over the years i have found cannonballs, musket balls, coins and all sorts of interesting items - the field where i found the cannonballs and musket balls is now beneath two stories of an unfinished building development. These wouldn't have come to light only for my patience and love of been out in the fresh air.

We need our learned archaeologists to record and fill the blanks in our history but why not combine both codes??

Just an idea: Why couldn't our out of work archaeologists (I'm sure there's a lot at the moment) set up workshops across the country to teach metal detectorists how to properly log and record finds. We could then be licensed and potentially GPS’d. We could then add to the “knowledge basket” of this wonderful country of ours instead of being treating like PARIAHS on boards such as this.

I have no intention of giving up my hobby but I would like to see the legislation changed so that it can be enjoyed by more people.

As always I shall remain HAPPYHAMMERED :D:D

DeepSleeper

HappyHammered wrote: »

Just an idea: Why couldn't our out of work archaeologists (I'm sure there's a lot at the moment) set up workshops across the country to teach metal detectorists how to properly log and record finds. We could then be licensed and potentially GPS’d. [/QUOTE]

As an under-employed archaeologist, I have to stress that most Irish archaeologists would recoil at this suggestion because the key point to understand is that metal detecting does not harm our archaeological heritage because you have been doing it incorrectly - it is inherently harmful and no workshop is going to change that.

Digging a hole through archaeological strata to recover a piece of metal damages the strata and so damages the context of that find and the context of all other finds in the immediate vicinity, whether they are recovered or not. The loss of information which results from every hole dug cannot be mitigated by a workshop on recording techniques, since the hole is the problem, not the record associated with it. Trying to understand and record the context of a find by looking down a small hole dug by a metal detectorist is akin to trying to read and understand the contents of my bookshelves by looking in my letterbox.... (... and my office is upstairs...;))

HappyHammered

DeepSleeper wrote: »

The loss of information which results from every hole dug cannot be mitigated by a workshop on recording techniques, since the hole is the problem, not the record associated with it.

Hi DeepSleeper, I agree with what you are saying but if the whole process was legitimised to a greater extent all the information could be held on a database that could be accessed by all. This would give context to that "hole" and also create a database of information over time that would be priceless.

I know for this to work all detectorists would have to abide by strict guide lines but surely this is better than total prohibition of the hobby and the ultimate loss of artifacts and information.

We all know what results from prohibition!!!!

RollYerOwn

HappyHammered wrote: »

Hi Board, I have followed this discussion for nearly twelve months now and I feel we are getting nowhere near coming to a solution with regards the use of metal detectors whether legally or illegally.

I have metal detected on and off for over twelve years and as far as our antiquated laws go on metal detecting, I have always tried to stay on the right side of the law.

I love metal detecting and I love the feeling I get when my machine registers metal in the ground - whether it’s a rusty nail, a horse shoe or a part of MY PAST. I don't consider myself a TREASURE HUNTER and take offence at being called a CRIMINAL. I love history and I take the time to log and record all my finds, no matter how small.

But if you have been metal detecting without a licence then you have not stayed on the right side of the law - you have broken it and have committed an offence under the law.


Do you often metal detect building sites in the hope that you will find some modern metal nails and other detritus? No? Then my guess is that you are looking for lost artefacts. Would you prefer to be called an ARTEFACT HUNTER (duplicating your use of capitals)? Does that sound any better than TREASURE HUNTER?

HappyHammered wrote: »

Over the years i have found cannonballs, musket balls, coins and all sorts of interesting items - the field where i found the cannonballs and musket balls is now beneath two stories of an unfinished building development. These wouldn't have come to light only for my patience and love of been out in the fresh air.

Out of interest, why did you pick this field and why did you do it just prior to a development taking place? Was their a historic character to the site that you knew about? I wonder why Clare County Council didn't highlight it in the planning conditions for the development? Or did they? What were the results of the subsequent works by the archaeologists? Were they happy that the context of your finds was destroyed? Or did Clare Co Co fail to recognise the importance of the site even after you had reported to the National Museum (as you are required to do by law) the finding of your important artefacts?[/QUOTE]

HappyHammered

RollYerOwn wrote: »

But if you have been metal detecting without a licence then you have not stayed on the right side of the law - you have broken it and have committed an offence under the law.

I see hackles have been raised again. I detect on land where I have prior permission from the land owner, I ensure the lands are not listed or covered by a historical charter of any sorts. I avoid national monument sites and surrounding areas, i predominately detect on farmland. As i've said before its an antiquated law that curtails/not prohibits the use of metal detectors and it will be challenged.

I'm not a Treasure Hunter or an Artefact Hunter i'm just a detectorist!!

My finds have been the talking point at gathers for years and have given numerous people an interest in our local history. I believe this is better than being catalogued and filed away in a basement drawer.

That's just my opinion

RollYerOwn

Don't get me wrong I used to metal detect myself when I was a kid, legally, in the UK. I know that people have an interest but as I have said numerous times, there is a better way that doesn't result in a loss of information. Join a local archaeological society or start one up - I know there are plenty of archaeologists living in Clare - and see how licensed metal detection might be of use on a research dig.

There are a few things I would like to do but laws that I don't agree with stop me because I don't want to break the law.

As far as the National Monuments Act is concerned, landowner permission is irrelevant - the landowner doesn't own the artefacts and sites that lie on their land. Nor do you even if you find them.

If you have recovered artefacts, then there is an archaeological site there. It is not stipulated in the law that the site has to be previously recorded. If you use a metal detector without a licence to look for archaeological objects ANYWHERE, you are breaking the law.

I'll post the link again so you can read it for yourself. Section 2 subsection (b)

http://www.irishstatutebook.ie/1987/en/act/pub/0017/sec0002.html#sec2

Sorry, but if you're going to post such claims you should check your legal position before you get yourself into bother. Fortunately it seems that the National Museum don't bother their backsides checking such new-fangled things as the internet. :rolleyes: