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"Operation Armageddon" in 1969 would have been mass suicide for Irish - STAY ON TOPIC

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    #482
    mike65
    Closed Accounts Posts: 88,978 ✭✭✭✭mike65


    Shaun Tinkling Quote wrote: »
    Y
    Something the Americans, British, Russians and to a lesser extent the Israeli's can not identify with or even begin to understand is whats inside the heart of a risen people.

    You are overlooking the impact of the Loyalist reaction within the North I suspect.They'd have a thing or two to say about an uprising I'd imagine and they'd be better armed (via the B specials) and its not like they'd lack motivation.


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    #483
    Pighead
    Registered Users Posts: 14,184 ✭✭✭✭Pighead


    Shaun Tinkling Quote wrote: »
    I've never seen a dog defeat a flea yet!.
    The dog(British Army) gets in reinforcements to get rid of the flea(Irish Army). The dogs owner(British Government) just pops down to the shop, buys some flea shampoo (fighter jets and reinforcements) and before you can say, no more itching, the fleas have been destroyed.


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    #484
    arybvtcw0eolkf
    Closed Accounts Posts: 24,878 ✭✭✭✭arybvtcw0eolkf


    Pighead wrote: »
    The dog(British Army) gets in reinforcements to get rid of the flea(Irish Army). The dogs owner(British Government) just pops down to the shop, buys some flea shampoo (fighter jets and reinforcements) and before you can say, no more itching, the fleas have been destroyed.


    Play to your strenghts and stick with the comedy.

    .


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    #485
    mike65
    Closed Accounts Posts: 88,978 ✭✭✭✭mike65


    Oooooh!


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    #486
    arybvtcw0eolkf
    Closed Accounts Posts: 24,878 ✭✭✭✭arybvtcw0eolkf


    mike65 wrote: »
    You are overlooking the impact of the Loyalist reaction within the North I suspect.They'd have a thing or two to say about an uprising I'd imagine and they'd be better armed (via the B specials) and its not like they'd lack motivation.

    The British owe them a duty of care - they'd have been evacuated to safe area's and away from the conflict.

    If the British really wished to harm us then, they'd have withdrawn completely from N.I. and left a devided country in their wake - historically its what they're good at - we'd have torn ourselfs assunder and would have begged for British intervention eventually.

    Thank God this never happened.

    .


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    #487
    captainblack
    Closed Accounts Posts: 28 ✭captainblack


    Shaun Tinkling Quote wrote: »
    You should familiarize yourself with...



    'The War of the Flea'..

    'Analogically, the guerrilla fights the war of the
    flea, and his military enemy suffers the dog’s disadvantages:
    too much to defend; too small, ubiquitous,
    and agile an enemy to come to grips with.
    If the war continues long enough—this is the
    theory—the dog succumbs to exhaustion and
    anemia without ever having found anything on
    which to close its jaws or to rake with its claws.'

    Using conventional military tactics of the time we'd have have lost our command and control infrastructure within hours - after which I believe we'd have fought 'the war of the flea' and eventually defeated the British.

    Something the Americans, British, Russians and to a lesser extent the Israeli's can not identify with or even begin to understand is whats inside the heart of a risen people.

    Yes, our government would have been over thrown and the British (or a puppet British government) would have been in Leinster house for a period of time but eventually we would have won the war.

    And here's something else not understood by alot of posters in this thread, there's a huge difference between winning a battle and winning the war.

    The Americans and Brits in Iraq won the battles, but ultimately lost the war.

    The same will happen in Afghanistan too, as it did in Vietnam - where America (and the French before them) won every major battle but lost the war.

    I've never seen a dog defeat a flea yet!.


    .

    .

    I have - when two thirds of the flees support the dog.


  • Options
    #488
    Pighead
    Registered Users Posts: 14,184 ✭✭✭✭Pighead


    Shaun Tinkling Quote wrote: »
    Play to your strenghts and stick with the comedy.

    .
    Listen pal, Pighead was in the cubs for a decent part of the 80's and he's well equipped to engage in any conversations about war or battle.

    Pighead doesn't know but it's been heard
    Shaun Tinkling Quote's plans are quite absurd,
    to kill a dog with a single flea,
    there ain't no chance, that's a guarantee.


  • Options
    #489
    arybvtcw0eolkf
    Closed Accounts Posts: 24,878 ✭✭✭✭arybvtcw0eolkf


    pablomakaveli wrote: »
    Just because guerilla tactics won out in those cases doesn't mean they will always win out. There have been guerilla campaigns that lost as well.


    There have, but since WWII very few.

    The Americans didn't take on the lessions learned in Vietnam, instead they were content to high tail it out of there and continue with their (and their allies) policy of equiping and training for WWIII which was going to be fought along conventional lines in Europe.

    America's biggest victory over a guerilla army (or armies) was the Indian wars of the 19th century. But at the time the American forces were better equipt to think on their feet and adapt to the enemy - these days most large conventional armies just aren't that flexible.

    For a time it looked like the Brits had learned the lession of winning hearts & minds and the importance of including local civilian leaders & bodies in its affairs - but that all blew up in its face in Basra when its cruel treatment of prisoners were exposed to the public.

    .


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    #490
    getz
    Registered Users Posts: 5,255 ✭✭✭getz


    toiletduck wrote: »
    Who said anything about the Brits invading after ejecting the Irish army from the North :confused: I would think it highly unlikely.
    to many people are thinking with their hearts ,not their heads ,if the republic had invaded the north a lot of people would have been killed,the british would have had to invade the republic to remove the then goverment, and you can be sure that many people would die,because of reprisals on both sides of the border,a goverment in the republic that would be more exceptable to the british would take over,and ireland would be back to square one,and this would have been because two nationists kevin boland and neil blaneys hate of all british things.


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    #491
    Donny5
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,827 ✭✭✭Donny5


    getz wrote: »
    to many people are thinking with their hearts ,not their heads ,if the republic had invaded the north a lot of people would have been killed,the british would have had to invade the republic to remove the then goverment, and you can be sure that many people would die,because of reprisals on both sides of the border,a goverment in the republic that would be more exceptable to the british would take over,and ireland would be back to square one,and this would have been because two nationists kevin boland and neil blaneys hate of all british things.

    It seems unlikely to me that they'd commit ground forces. I'd imagine they'd seal the border, and bomb our infrastructure.


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    #492
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 0 ✭ [Deleted User]


    Donny5 wrote: »
    It seems unlikely to me that they'd commit ground forces. I'd imagine they'd seal the border, and bomb our infrastructure.

    That wouldn't take long!!! :pac:


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    #493
    Donny5
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,827 ✭✭✭Donny5


    Deleted User wrote: »
    That wouldn't take long!!! :pac:

    :D Not when our bridges fall down by themselves.


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    #494
    Tordelback
    Registered Users Posts: 677 ✭✭✭Tordelback


    Using conventional military tactics of the time we'd have have lost our command and control infrastructure within hours - after which I believe we'd have fought 'the war of the flea' and eventually defeated the British.

    Gosh, you're right. What a wonderful time that would have been for everyone, as I'm sure the Vietnamese would be the first to tell you. I imagine those dirty Brits would have had to take D4 and D6 street by street, eh. There's nothing like a guerilla war that drags on for years to really pull a country together.


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    #495
    arybvtcw0eolkf
    Closed Accounts Posts: 24,878 ✭✭✭✭arybvtcw0eolkf


    Tordelback wrote: »
    Gosh, you're right. What a wonderful time that would have been for everyone, as I'm sure the Vietnamese would be the first to tell you. I imagine those dirty Brits would have had to take D4 and D6 street by street, eh. There's nothing like a guerilla war that drags on for years to really pull a country together.


    Your post makes absolutely no sense what so ever :confused:

    .


  • Options
    #496
    getz
    Registered Users Posts: 5,255 ✭✭✭getz


    Tordelback wrote: »
    Gosh, you're right. What a wonderful time that would have been for everyone, as I'm sure the Vietnamese would be the first to tell you. I imagine those dirty Brits would have had to take D4 and D6 street by street, eh. There's nothing like a guerilla war that drags on for years to really pull a country together.
    most families in the republic have a british/english members,brothers cousins,parents fighting and killing each other,irish people living in the UK would not feel safe also, its terrible to even think about, it could havebeen 10 times worse than the irish civil war.


  • Options
    #497
    Stev_o
    Registered Users Posts: 9,249 ✭✭✭Stev_o


    Shaun Tinkling Quote wrote: »
    You should familiarize yourself with...



    'The War of the Flea'..

    'Analogically, the guerrilla fights the war of the
    flea, and his military enemy suffers the dog’s disadvantages:
    too much to defend; too small, ubiquitous,
    and agile an enemy to come to grips with.
    If the war continues long enough—this is the
    theory—the dog succumbs to exhaustion and
    anemia without ever having found anything on
    which to close its jaws or to rake with its claws.'

    Using conventional military tactics of the time we'd have have lost our command and control infrastructure within hours - after which I believe we'd have fought 'the war of the flea' and eventually defeated the British.

    Something the Americans, British, Russians and to a lesser extent the Israeli's can not identify with or even begin to understand is whats inside the heart of a risen people.

    Yes, our government would have been over thrown and the British (or a puppet British government) would have been in Leinster house for a period of time but eventually we would have won the war.

    And here's something else not understood by alot of posters in this thread, there's a huge difference between winning a battle and winning the war.

    The Americans and Brits in Iraq won the battles, but ultimately lost the war.

    The same will happen in Afghanistan too, as it did in Vietnam - where America (and the French before them) won every major battle but lost the war.

    I've never seen a dog defeat a flea yet!.


    .

    .

    Tbh Britain wouldn't even need to counter a guerrilla war, they could easily economically starve us as a nation bringing us to our knees within a matter of weeks. It's all great saying that the people would take it to them but without food, security and other things most people would be at the gates of the Dail demanding a surrender and a return to the norm.


  • Options
    #498
    Hal1
    Registered Users Posts: 8,720 ✭✭✭Hal1


    http://www.rte.ie/player/#v=1054600


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    #499
    arybvtcw0eolkf
    Closed Accounts Posts: 24,878 ✭✭✭✭arybvtcw0eolkf


    Stev_o wrote: »
    Tbh Britain wouldn't even need to counter a guerrilla war, they could easily economically starve us as a nation bringing us to our knees within a matter of weeks. It's all great saying that the people would take it to them but without food, security and other things most people would be at the gates of the Dail demanding a surrender and a return to the norm.

    It wouldn't be the first they tried starvation as a mean's to solving the Irish problem.



    .


  • Options
    #500
    Hugo Drax
    Closed Accounts Posts: 358 ✭✭Hugo Drax


    First there was the dream, now there is reality. Here in the untainted cradle of the heavens will be created a new super race, a race of perfect physical specimens. You have been selected as its progenitors. Like gods, your offspring will return to Earth and shape it in their image. You have all served in public capacties in my terrestrial empire. Your seed, like yourselves, will pay deference to the ultimate dynasty which I alone have created. From their first day on Earth they will be able to look up and know that there is law and order in the heavens.


  • Options
    #501
    getz
    Registered Users Posts: 5,255 ✭✭✭getz


    Shaun Tinkling Quote wrote: »
    It wouldn't be the first they tried starvation as a mean's to solving the Irish problem.



    .
    i would expect better from a moderator


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    #502
    arybvtcw0eolkf
    Closed Accounts Posts: 24,878 ✭✭✭✭arybvtcw0eolkf


    getz wrote: »
    i would expect better from a moderator

    What because I'm a moderator I should forget history?.

    .


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    #503
    Manic Moran
    Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 16,267 Mod ✭✭✭✭Manic Moran


    The Americans and Brits in Iraq won the battles, but ultimately lost the war

    They did?

    Last I heard, it was still ongoing, and generally speaking going relatively well. There was that spike in violence when the CF withdrew to more supporting roles, but that was long expected, and seems to have passed.

    NTM


  • Options
    #504
    getz
    Registered Users Posts: 5,255 ✭✭✭getz


    Shaun Tinkling Quote wrote: »
    What because I'm a moderator I should forget history?.

    .
    you are saying that the british deliberately tried to starve the irish ?not that the land owners sent food out of the country for profit ?and no most of the land owners in ireland were irish and the irish members of the parliment did not seem to care ,the famine hit other parts of britain as well, in scotland over 1.5 million had to leave the same amount that left ireland,even today over 750 million people [equivalent to double the population of europe], world wide suffer from hunger and malnutrition.no buisness man of to-day, would give away food. its always left to the charities/and the biggest one that helped the irish was the quakers,others like the rich churches,fed them on blessings ,no priests starved to death.


  • Options
    #505
    arybvtcw0eolkf
    Closed Accounts Posts: 24,878 ✭✭✭✭arybvtcw0eolkf


    Manic Moran wrote: »
    They did?

    Last I heard, it was still ongoing, and generally speaking going relatively well. There was that spike in violence when the CF withdrew to more supporting roles, but that was long expected, and seems to have passed.

    NTM

    I'm wrong in predicting a loss in Afghanistan, but dress up whatever way you like it - America has lost the war in Iraq, and its only Americans who could believe otherwise.

    Afghanistan, well your still up to your titties in that one and well on the way to installing another puppet government. But when they send you on your way, that too will be seen as another American/British defeat.

    Don't get me wrong, I hate it that the west will be defeated there. But we started a fight we can't finish. I think the best you can do is continue to install puppet governments and buy off Afghanie tribes but your staring a military defeat in the face.

    .


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    #506
    asdasd
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,185 ✭✭✭asdasd


    and no most of the land owners in ireland were irish and the irish members of the parliment did not seem to care

    Most of the landowners in Ireland were Ango-Irish. The Irish members of parliament cared if they were Catholic.
    even today over 750 million people [equivalent to double the population of europe], world wide suffer from hunger and malnutrition

    Maybe. However malnutrition as now described is really not the same as the Irish situation. Third world populations are not receding. Actual famines - as opposed to general malnutrition - is rare.


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    #507
    getz
    Registered Users Posts: 5,255 ✭✭✭getz


    asdasd wrote: »
    Most of the landowners in Ireland were Ango-Irish. The Irish members of parliament cared if they were Catholic.



    Maybe. However malnutrition as now described is really not the same as the Irish situation. Third world populations are not receding. Actual famines - as opposed to general malnutrition - is rare.
    malnutrition its self did not kill the irish people it was the diseases that the people got because of their weakend state that killed them, when we look at it to-day,it seems impposible that that kind of thing could happen,but if you look at the kind of life people had then you will see that most people in britain had their own problems,9 year old children were hung for stealing a crust of bread,if a person walked over a bridge in parts of london after midnight,they could be deported as a criminal to the colonies,when you read the newspapers of the day,the starvation in ireland hardly gets a mention,but the cambridge oxford boat race gets half a page ,no mention of children being chained to looms in the weaving sheds for 12 hrs a day to make them work and the only one in three children who would live over the age of 12 in england, yes the british goverment was evil and all working classes were treated the same.but people just got on with it


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    #508
    captainblack
    Closed Accounts Posts: 28 ✭captainblack


    getz wrote: »
    malnutrition its self did not kill the irish people it was the diseases that the people got because of their weakend state that killed them, when we look at it to-day,it seems impposible that that kind of thing could happen,but if you look at the kind of life people had then you will see that most people in britain had their own problems,9 year old children were hung for stealing a crust of bread,if a person walked over a bridge in parts of london after midnight,they could be deported as a criminal to the colonies,when you read the newspapers of the day,the starvation in ireland hardly gets a mention,but the cambridge oxford boat race gets half a page ,no mention of children being chained to looms in the weaving sheds for 12 hrs a day to make them work and the only one in three children who would live over the age of 12 in england, yes the british goverment was evil and all working classes were treated the same.but people just got on with it

    Evil? A very strong word. I'm sure it was no worse than any other developed nation - probably better than most. I suspect in a couple of hundred years we'll be regarded as 'evil' by the consensus of that time. Such is life.


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    #509
    Manic Moran
    Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 16,267 Mod ✭✭✭✭Manic Moran


    Shaun Tinkling Quote wrote: »
    America has lost the war in Iraq, and its only Americans who could believe otherwise.

    Since nobody has yet really managed to define 'victory' in practical terms, how do you define 'loss'?
    Afghanistan, well your still up to your titties in that one and well on the way to installing another puppet government.

    Puppet government? I know I could have sworn I saw people around here voting.

    NTM


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    #510
    Dartz
    Registered Users Posts: 4,372 ✭✭✭Dartz


    train.jpg

    This thread is now about derailed locomotives. :|


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    #511
    Adamisconfused
    Registered Users Posts: 268 ✭✭Adamisconfused


    If anyone missed the programme the first time around, it is repeated on RTE2 in ten minutes.














    May god have mercy on your soul.


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