Do you get some funny faces if you go to a Clay shooting range with a Baikal?

shannonpowerlab

Hi,

I just wanted to ask some people who have been shooting clays for a while if it is OK to go to a clay pigeon range with a Baikal? What ever the model (mp-153, IZH-27 etc.) it may be?

The shops who sell them say they are great...Most of experienced shooters say they are more like a waterpipe with a plank of wood strapped to it ...UK shooting times gave somewhat confusing review...(IZH-27)

Shot patterns: 3/5

Reliability: 4/5

Handling: 3/5

Trigger: 2/5

Finish: 1/5

Stock: 2/5

Value: 4/5

Though the gun does seem to funciton quite well....

As I am new to this (just joined ICPSA) and I have only been using borrowed guns at a range and I think I would like to get my own but...they are expensive!!! I was really amazed by the fact that shooting ranges put so much investment into their equipment...!

I have seen a number of threads on this kind of topic but the opininons are always split half way and I am not sure which way I should fall towards...I would appreciate anyone's first hand experience on using Baikals on a range. (For hunting a €100 S/H side by side would do as one hunter told me in the past)

Cass

Originally posted by shannonpowerlab

I just wanted to ask some people who have been shooting clays for a while if it is OK to go to a clay pigeon range with a Baikal?.........

Absolutely. Anyone who may laugh at you or sneer you would need to be reminded of what gun they first started shooting with, but honestly i can't see anyone making a joke out of any gun anyone else shoots with. 99.9% of lads that are into clays are a good bunch and would sooner help than hinder you.

The shops who sell them say they are great...Most of experienced shooters say they are more like a waterpipe with a plank of wood strapped to it

Dealers will want to sell guns, so will tell you horses b***s are lemons if you let them. No different than any salesman in any market, but if you give a dealer a price limit/budget he will give you your options that fall within that budget. To say the guns are waterpipes with planks of wood attached is a bit strong. I won't be two faced and claim to know all about Baikals as i've never owned one but have fired a good few over the years. I found the gun to be a decent sturdy and reliable gun but not suited for clays only. Every shoot i have attended there has been at least 2 or more Baikals there. They know their gun and how it fires and can hold their own on a good day, but as mentioned i wouldn't class it as a trap gun (my opinion only) and as soon as some lads can afford it they move up to something more designed towards clays.

I have seen a number of threads on this kind of topic but the opininons are always split half way

Simlpy because people here will try to advise you based on experience and first hand knowledge and as you know not everyone will be of the same opinion. I'm sure you've read alot of posts about "try the gun out", "see how it feels", again best advice possible. Try out every gun within your budget and to hell with what others think. Whichever feels, suits you best is the gun for you, if thats a Baikal then its a Baikal for you.

shannonpowerlab

Hi,

I suppose everyone has a reason to say what they say.

Like you said, I gave couple of shops a budget and asked what they recommend, they said Baikal or laurona. But budget wise it is looking closer to Baikal than laurona. Ok, I have a small budget but I couldn't be the only one these days with a tight budget and I still have to take lessons.

Though I found it rather curious that one shop told me I should be better off with a Baikal O/U than a second hand Remington 11-87...
Are they usually used until there is no wear left in it or something...?

It is just a hypothetical question but say, I take a gun mostly to clay shoot...

For someone with an experience with those 3 options,
new economy semi vs new economy O/U vs S/H big name semi purely form functional longevity point which is better in practice? I hope to get at least 3 years out of the first one I get...

Jonty

I shoot the odd round of sporting with not only a baikal, but a side by side baikal, I get sneers at the start and then dropped jaws at the finish. Its great

shannonpowerlab

So you do get funny faces then...? But you must be good.

Cass

(Hypothetically) Semi autos are frowned on at clay shoots. Unjustly so but its a fact. At club shoots semi autos are permitted but at some of the larger shoots, county etc, you may not be allowed to use one. An o/u is your best bet.

Not all second hand guns are traded because they are burnt out or falling apart. I trade every couple of years (when affordable) for a newer model. My old Bettinsoli was never used for clays and i had it for a year and only used it 12-15 times (400 cartridges). Great gun in excellent condition so was a good buy for someone. Bigger name guns are more expensive for a reason.... they are better. No matter whether you go for new or secondhand it would take alot of shooting (i mean lot) or abuse to wear out a gun. Personally i prefer to go new, so when i can afford to i do and when i can't (as in now) i stay with what i have.

Go look at secondhand guns. Bring someone along if you can for a second opinion or simply because they can value a gun a bit better than you or if they have more experience with guns they will spot wear and tear and know if a gun is loose. Look at guns above your budget (a little above) because as i'm sure you know money is tight and dealers will be happy to make any sale they can so bartering is a must.

shannonpowerlab

Oh, so it is quite strict then.

It kind of helps me to narrow down the things I should be looking at.

Thanks.

demonloop

shannonpowerlab wrote: »

Do you get some funny faces if you go to a Clay shooting range with a Baikal?

I remember arriving at a clay pigeon club, dressed as a Transformer and with a parrot on my shoulder singing Dixie. That did raise a few eyebrows.

shannonpowerlab

That is amazing a golf course woun't let you through the front door.:pac:

Are you trying to say it is not as strict?

shannonpowerlab

So back on the main topic.

Does anyone know a key difference between a hunting shotgun and a trap gun? I heard about some talking about the weight and recoil and trap guns tend to be heavier in general...

Is there anything else?

pullandbang

Regardless of the name on the side of the barrell - make sure it fits.

If it doesn't you'll only hit your target through luck. Bring someone with you and get them to check your eye alignment down the rib. Check the length of pull - can you reach the trigger comfortably. Check the stock length, make sure it's not too short or too long or cast the wrong way for you.

Wear the clothes you intend to wear when using the gun - in other words don't try a winter duck gun with just a tee shirt on. Make sure you have your winter clothes on. Likewise for summer clays, wear a sweat shirt and borrow a shooting vest from the shop, then try the gun.

If it fits and you can afford it, buy it.

Does anyone know a key difference between a hunting shotgun and a trap gun? I heard about some talking about the weight and recoil and trap guns tend to be heavier in general...

A trap gun will be much heavier than a game gun. It will also shoot higher - 80% of your shot will be above the point of aim and 20% below. That is to allow for trap targets which are always rising. They are not ideal for lugging around fields.

shannonpowerlab

Ok I see, the best thing is to try them out I suppose...

G17

If you're happy to drive a Toyota Corolla but feel you're not quite arriving at your destination without a BMW, then avoid the Baikal (pronounced buykal, despite what you'll hear). But I gather from your opening question that this is indeed a problem for you, mostly to do with image. I suffered from a similar affliction.:) But I've learned that until you master the basic skills, which takes time, lots of time, the benefits of a higher end gun are really lost on a beginner.

What Pull says: fit is of utmost importance; a high end Perazzi that doesn't fit will serve you just as poorly as any other poorly fitting shotgun.

I started off with a Baikal and then progressed through 15 or more different shotguns, searching in vain for the 'the one'. It is only when I met a wise coach who told me to go back to basics that my scores improved and I found peace :D

A Baikal might not have the finish and features of some more expensive guns (that's a simplistic overview) but trust me on this one, buy your cheap Baikal, if it fits. Use the money you've saved to get some coaching. Learn to shoot it, then you'll be the one laughing at the SUV pulling in with Jimmy Bells and Whistles who can't shoot. It's also a little recognised fact that the guys with the fancy guns are the guys with the cash who can afford practice ammo. Try to learn something from every stand you shoot, then your few hundred rounds might well be more valuable than his or her 10,000.

Anyone who laughs at a Baikal, quite simply, doesn't have a clue. Best of luck with your new shotgun, whatever that may be.

slavetothegrind

Quite right G17, my first gun was a fabarm, for €150, and it was greeted with derision by the few and with a nod from the wise.

As i started i was bad, worse than nearly anyone else i have seen start since!

But with help from the club members and good advice i got better.

Then a friend of mine made a piece of timber for me to lengthen the stock as the gun was a little short for me, well i jumped forward a step or two then!

It was only after a year that i bought my current gun, 2nd hand having tried it on a 100 bird, and spent a few bob.

Gun fit is most important as already said. If you can get your baikel adjusted well for you it will not hold you back at all starting out.

Best of luck and enjoy

shannonpowerlab

Most certainly. At least I know now what is the most important aspect of shotgun selection, baikal or Lu-mar or whatever it is going to be.

By the way, where would you find a functioning shotgun for €150 anyway? that was the kind of price range I was looking at as that would buy me a lot of ammos and traps to practice.

Then I starded doing some research and getting some ideas and for a while I thought practicing with Baikal is like showing up at a range with a Rem 870 synthetic with extended mag

- "Hi, I'm here to shoot some pigeons!"

Then I can imagine an instructor saying

- "yea? really? with that?"

By the way for people who practiced using Baikals, how much life did you get out if it?

In the mean time I'll be taking some lessons so I'll be asking some questions about what is the meaning of good fit. I'm quite short 5' 5" so probably means I should be looking for something with a relatively short stock?

shannonpowerlab

I was just wondering...the barrels do point the same direction don't they? No matter how cheap they are?

ormondprop

shotguns shouldn't wear out if its looked after, the shotgun i use was my fathers which he bought about 30 years ago 2nd hand and that still isn't worn out and it shoots perfectly(when somebody who's good uses it:D)a baikal will last as long as any other gun that costs 10 times the price, the only reason their cheaper is because they ar built for less, cheaper timber, less engraving and inlays etc, if your a good shooter it doesnt matter how much your gun cost you'll still hit the same amount of targets

bayliner

the 1st gun i ever had was a baikel, and i still rem the 1st time i shot at clays with it about 18yrs ago, it was a DTL along side some serious dtl men if i recall correctly sammy burnett was there too(dereks dad) and 1 ex irish international, i was a bag o nerves and while got a odd look or 2 after i hit a what i thought a decent 18 or 19 out of 25, they just wanted to know who the rookie was ...... actually the fact that theae guys had the best of gear made me more determined to match their scores with my cheap baikel,, i kept that gun for 12yrs and a friend now has it and its still working perfectly.....

pullandbang

shannonpowerlab wrote: »

I was just wondering...the barrels do point the same direction don't they? No matter how cheap they are?

Yes, all the barrells point in the same direction....hopefully:eek:

The problem lies in the gun not fitting properly - then the barrells are not pointing where you are looking. Remember, a couple of millimetres off at the muzzle is a missed target at 30/40 yards.

BTW - the first gun I had, like most people, was a single barrell baikal bought new for IR£80 in Garnetts & Keegans of Parliament Street. I was posh so could afford a new gun......:-)

shannonpowerlab

hmmm, Baikal seems to be a well proven technology form what I can gather. I feel less worried.

shannonpowerlab

What do you mean by "hopefully"? :eek:


Did you see one with 2 barrels pointing away from each other?

pullandbang

I wouldn't exactly use the term "technology" and "baikal" in the same sentance.:) They are however probably the most reliable gun in the whole bloody world - and I jest not! They will outlive you and me and keep on firing.

shannonpowerlab

I suppose that is what some might call "low-tech-high-tech" it just means that russians use pencils in a space craft but americans use a $5000 pen custom built to work without gravity...They both work fine.

I'll try a couple in the next couple of weekends...

Is it really true that semi's are not allowed?

Because probably it is just me but until I can seen how the shotgun barrels are made I do not feel really feel safe buying economy double barrels just in case they are not pointing the same direction...

ormondprop

dont worry the barrels will be right but the sight mightn't be, a guy that goes shooting with us had a new shotgun and couldnt hit a thing with it, hetook it home one day and fired at a big cardboard box, it was firing low, changed the high fibre optic front sight for a brass bead and bobs your uncle he was back on form, by the way this wasn't a cheap gun, it was either a browning or miroku i cant rightly remember, the best shooter out of all the lads i go hunting with has a battered old lanber, and i've only ever seen him use his second shot twice and one of them times was when he shot two foxes that bolted the cover together, dont worry about the badge on it and make sure it feels comfortable, cheap guns are still built to a good standard

Cass

Shannonpowerlab, get up and out and try some guns. Reading too much here without going and trying out some shotguns will fill your head with so much info you will try to remember everything you've read here and will either forget half it and not make a decision or find fault with everything.

When you've tried out a few and narrowed it down to 1, 2 or 3 different models then if you want any opinions come back and ask. Until then best advice is get out and try some. You may find yourself wanting a gun you never considered because you like the fit and feel.

shannonpowerlab

I'm trying out some this weekend.:D Till then!

Cass

I'm assuming you're from Clare so a few shops to get you started (in case you didn't have any)Best of luck.

Lisdoonvarna
Joe O'Loughlin
Lisdoonvarna, Co. Clare
065-7074038


Newmarket -on- fergus
Mid-West Shooting Supplies
Newmarket-on-Fergus
086 2786323


Tulla
Matthew Sheedy
Gort Road, Tulla, Co. Clare
Matthew -087 2576107

ayapatrick

pullandbang wrote: »

I wouldn't exactly use the term "technology" and "baikal" in the same sentance.:) They are however probably the most reliable gun in the whole bloody world - and I jest not! They will outlive you and me and keep on firing.

i heard of a fella bought a new one, and it literally fell apart!

pullandbang

ayapatrick wrote: »

i heard of a fella bought a new one, and it literally fell apart!

Ouch!

I suppose it's like a lot of stuff nowadays, it's being mass produced somewhere in China under the Baikal name instead of the factory in Russia (I think). Certainly the older ones were built like tanks.

foxhunter

pullandbang wrote: »

Ouch!

I suppose it's like a lot of stuff nowadays, it's being mass produced somewhere in China under the Baikal name instead of the factory in Russia (I think). Certainly the older ones were built like tanks.

The Baikal you buy now is nothing like the old ones I've seen 20 year old ones
in perfect working order and 2 year old ones with everything from misfire problems to cartridges getting down past the injectors and getting stuck.
Imo you would be better with an old one rather than one of the new models.

ayapatrick

foxhunter wrote: »

The Baikal you buy now is nothing like the old ones I've seen 20 year old ones
in perfect working order and 2 year old ones with everything from misfire problems to cartridges getting down past the injectors and getting stuck.
Imo you would be better with an old one rather than one of the new models.

the one i was on about the ejectors fell of it while being cleaned and iirc the firing pins came out aswell.

foxshooter243

ayapatrick wrote: »

i heard of a fella bought a new one, and it literally fell apart!

been folowing this with interest, my second shotgun was a baikal over and under back in the very late seventies, they say the stocks were made from sleepers from the trans- siberian railway line, it was a real solid piece of farm machinery:D, I sold it as money was tight, and really regretted it.
Recently was at a clay shoot and a lad there, who was a fresh faced young garda had a baikal o/u with him- in short it fell to pieces after a couple of boxes of shells had been consumed, I had to lend him my gun to finish..I dont think they are making them like they used too:)

Vegeta

Give it a month and after that you will not look at their guns but how they're shooting.

I love semi autos, they're just easier to shoot but they are stupidly looked down upon at clay meets.

Was at one on Sunday myself and there was a guy using a beretta D10 and he couldn't hit quarter the clays I was. There was a 16 year old guy there and he was cleaning up with a gun I couldn't even identify. I respected him much more than the guy using the expensive gun

pullandbang

Vegeta wrote: »

I love semi autos, they're just easier to shoot but they are stupidly looked down upon at clay meets.

They're not "looked down upon" rather they are frowned upon because of their nuisance factor in squadded shoots. In a squad of 5 or 6, the person to the right of the semi is getting ready to shoot when next thing is he's hit by one or two empties, or they cross his line of vision. This can be very distracting in a competition.

At a sporting shoot they are fine because you're in the cage on your own and your empties ejecting don't cause any bother to anyone else. They do however leave a mess unless collected by the shoorter after each go.

The other issue is they are not readily seen to be empty by others at the shoot and this can make people uncomfortable. From personal experience I've seen shooters carry them fully loaded around the field relying on the "safety" catch.....total stupidity!:eek: I remember approaching one guy who was chatting with his mates while he leaned on the upward pointing barrell. The breach was closed and I asked him to open it - out popped three shells:( - how stupid was that!

Vegeta

pullandbang wrote: »

They're not "looked down upon" rather they are frowned upon because of their nuisance factor in squadded shoots. In a squad of 5 or 6, the person to the right of the semi is getting ready to shoot when next thing is he's hit by one or two empties, or they cross his line of vision. This can be very distracting in a competition.

At a sporting shoot they are fine because you're in the cage on your own and your empties ejecting don't cause any bother to anyone else. They do however leave a mess unless collected by the shoorter after each go.

The other issue is they are not readily seen to be empty by others at the shoot and this can make people uncomfortable. From personal experience I've seen shooters carry them fully loaded around the field relying on the "safety" catch.....total stupidity!:eek: I remember approaching one guy who was chatting with his mates while he leaned on the upward pointing barrell. The breach was closed and I asked him to open it - out popped three shells:( - how stupid was that!

You say tomato, I say tomato. Bugger it doesn't work when you type it out

ayapatrick

just as p&b is on about the ejected shells being annoying another thing i found annoying at a shoot one sunday standing in line was the porting on the new baikal over and unders. every time the guy beside me fired a shot got bits of burnt powder stuff in the face!

gunhappy_ie

shannonpowerlab wrote: »

Hi,

I just wanted to ask some people who have been shooting clays for a while if it is OK to go to a clay pigeon range with a Baikal? What ever the model (mp-153, IZH-27 etc.) it may be?

The shops who sell them say they are great...Most of experienced shooters say they are more like a waterpipe with a plank of wood strapped to it ...UK shooting times gave somewhat confusing review...(IZH-27)

Shot patterns: 3/5

Reliability: 4/5

Handling: 3/5

Trigger: 2/5

Finish: 1/5

Stock: 2/5

Value: 4/5

Though the gun does seem to funciton quite well....

As I am new to this (just joined ICPSA) and I have only been using borrowed guns at a range and I think I would like to get my own but...they are expensive!!! I was really amazed by the fact that shooting ranges put so much investment into their equipment...!

I have seen a number of threads on this kind of topic but the opininons are always split half way and I am not sure which way I should fall towards...I would appreciate anyone's first hand experience on using Baikals on a range. (For hunting a €100 S/H side by side would do as one hunter told me in the past)

not as bad as bringing a Benelli M4 or a Spas 15.... that got some looks !

pullandbang

ayapatrick wrote: »

every time the guy beside me fired a shot got bits of burnt powder stuff in the face!

Hence the requirement for shooting glasses which are compulsory at registered shoots.

ayapatrick

pullandbang wrote: »

Hence the requirement for shooting glasses which are compulsory at registered shoots.

definitely a good idea, i just mentioned about the annoyance of it.

cavan shooter

Yep like many here my first gun was a Baikal 27E double triggerand it is a great gun (still have It) though the actions abit loose (must tighten it with lump hammer)

now as for clays it was the only gun I had untill 10 yrs ago and it won me £50 in a shoot off against a man doing a
"crouching tiger hidden clay impression":D go on you know the type looking as if he was going to do karate not shotgunnin didnt say "pull" he "barked" something inaudible

So shoot what you feel comfortable shooting. I was thinking of changing my Bettinsoli to a Miroku but the past two sundays Ive shot an 85 in two different grounds. They say the gun is 20 % the rest is you

pullandbang

cavan shooter wrote: »

now as for clays it was the only gun I had untill 10 yrs ago and it won me £50 in a shoot off against a man doing a
"crouching tiger hidden clay impression"

:D

They say the gun is 20 % the rest is you

More like 95% you. If the gun fits you well and you have the basic technique, then it's all down to the 6" between the ears.

Grizzly 45

gunhappy_ie wrote: »

not as bad as bringing a Benelli M4 or a Spas 15.... that got some looks !

Whats so wrong with that??I have shot clays with the SPAS15 in the States.A blast!!!:D:D.
The best one was here I have a tricked out Remmy 1100,which I took to a flapper shoot here.Now we are on about looks and comments!:D
Until I shot trap,[actually that is intresting how different a pronounced pistol grip stock makes,some really expensive trap guns have these] and sporting,and still shot 8/10 on average,actually one of my best days,with a gun wholly unsuitable to the task in most peoples eyes! Truth in the saying a poor worker blames his tools!

Grizzly 45

]

They're not "looked down upon" rather they are frowned upon because of their nuisance factor in squadded shoots. In a squad of 5 or 6, the person to the right of the semi is getting ready to shoot when next thing is he's hit by one or two empties, or they cross his line of vision. This can be very distracting in a competition.

Gosh! Ye are a delicate breed of shooter here.:DThe shooter being distracted couldnt take a step back on the plate to avoid being hit by an eject?If he is that distracted by flying empties,maybe a set of blinkers is in order?

At a sporting shoot they are fine because you're in the cage on your own and your empties ejecting don't cause any bother to anyone else. They do however leave a mess unless collected by the shoorter after each go.

Thats not the guns fault either.That is down to the slob that doesnt collect his empties.BTW that appleis to O/U ans SXS as well ,seen a load of shooters too lazy to twist the gun to the right when breaking to eject near the catchment area.

The other issue is they are not readily seen to be empty by others at the shoot and this can make people uncomfortable. From personal experience I've seen shooters carry them fully loaded around the field relying on the "safety" catch.....total stupidity!:eek: I remember approaching one guy who was chatting with his mates while he leaned on the upward pointing barrell. The breach was closed and I asked him to open it - out popped three shells:( - how stupid was that!

[/QUOTE]

Soo,because of one freakin idiot doesnt know the basics of gun saftey,the gun is a problem???If this is such a concern,why dont you make it compulsory in shoots for semis to have a Red "UNLOADED" flag plug in the breech??[Like in the REMOVE BEFORE FLITE]saftey pin flags on aircraft.

Ironic everyone in the clay shooting goes on about how unsafe pumps and semis are...YET in practical shotgun they are THE only guns used,and there has [touchwood] NEVER been a fatality in ANY of the dynamic shooting styles since their inception in 1976Worldwide!!!BTW dynamic means running,and having to shoot from unusual positions with a loaded firearm.
AND these are shotguns with more than 3 shots,9 is considerd about the standard.So whats the chance of somthing going wrong there??
Whats the fatality for clay shooting accidents since then??
Not trying to pick a fight here on this.But just to point out that it is NOT the gun,be it semi,or O/U but the person using it,and preconcieved bias to semis and pumps that has a outdated reason from about a century ago.

pullandbang

Grizzly 45 wrote: »

Ironic everyone in the clay shooting goes on about how unsafe pumps and semis are...

Exactly where did I or anyone else state that semis or pumps were unsafe?
Those guns are perfectly safe in the right hands. The first gun I ever shot clays with was a semi. The point I made was at a clay shoot (registered, not flapper) with maybe 500 people milling around, someone carrying a semi causes a few raised eyebrows because unless your are up close and on the correct side of the gun you can't see if it's safe or not. It makes others feel uncomfortable, that's all. People would rather see a gun broken over someone's arm than see one carried as a semi would be.

YET in practical shotgun they are THE only guns used,and there has [touchwood] NEVER been a fatality in ANY of the dynamic shooting styles since their inception in 1976Worldwide!!!BTW dynamic means running,and having to shoot from unusual positions with a loaded firearm.
AND these are shotguns with more than 3 shots,9 is considerd about the standard.So whats the chance of somthing going wrong there??
Whats the fatality for clay shooting accidents since then??

Zero - ever - thankfully. I'm delighted that practical has had no accidents and likewise registered shoots under the auspices of the ICPSA have had zero fatalaties. I wouldn't know about flappers but the muppet I saw with the gun pointing into his armpit was at a flapper - one of ours I might add which was why I tackled him.

Cass

i shot with a Beretta AL391. Loved it, but as you all know the "funny faces" were too much to deal. Ordinarily i tell them to stuff off as the gun was breach open and pointed upwards when i was moving around with it and in it's case when i wasn't, but i was taking myself more seriously at the clays and so for an easier life i switched back to an o/u.

Lets face it if semi autos were fine (and i wish they were not frowned upon) why would beretta come up with the UGB25. Ejects the shells downwards as opposed to the side (for the man next to you) and breaks open for all to see.

Grizzly 45

Exactly where did I or anyone else state that semis or pumps were unsafe?

Didnt say you personally P&B,but it seems to be the attitude coming off clay shooting bodies worldwide.Semis = unsafe.

Those guns are perfectly safe in the right hands.

As is any gun,or dangerous item.

. The point I made was at a clay shoot (registered, not flapper) with maybe 500 people milling around, someone carrying a semi causes a few raised eyebrows because unless your are up close and on the correct side of the gun you can't see if it's safe or not. It makes others feel uncomfortable, that's all. People would rather see a gun broken over someone's arm than see one carried as a semi would be.

So as I said, just make it mandatory then that people with semis get those Unloaded firearm breech flags at registerd shoots??.They are appx 2ft long and bright red,so they cant be missed,Cost about 3USD.Everyone happy.

Zero - ever - thankfully. I'm delighted that practical has had no accidents and likewise registered shoots under the auspices of the ICPSA have had zero fatalaties. I wouldn't know about flappers but the muppet I saw with the gun pointing into his armpit was at a flapper - one of ours I might add which was why I tackled him.

[/QUOTE]

Flapper or formal shoot or back yard plink.Gun saftey is paramount,and that idjit was breaking every rule of common sense handling.Even if he hadnt been one of yours,he should have the battery racked back when off the line.Anyone would be entitled to say it to him to keep it racked back.

shannonpowerlab

Wow wow wow!

Now I see a different side of the picture...? Sounds like I should stay well away from Baikals....???? Unless it is semi...?

Why would anyone pay any amount af money for something that would fall apart within 45min out of box?

There is O/U deal on offer from Duffy's in Galway for under €600 with a case and 250 rounds of ammo included!!!!!!:eek:

I thought it was too good to be true.

10 box of cartridges are worth over €80 then the case would worth €30. Then there is retailer's mark up of 20% and I would imagine there would be 3 or 4 handlers before it shows up at the shop front etc. etc...means 20% per handler....

Then really.....how much is the gun really worth? €120?

It now kind of make sense. Not to bother with it. I think I'd go for a S/H Lamber. A number of shooters I have spoken to, said it is a good gun.

shannonpowerlab

cavan shooter wrote: »

Yep like many here my first gun was a Baikal 27E double triggerand it is a great gun (still have It) though the actions abit loose (must tighten it with lump hammer)

Whaaaaat? Lump hammer?


That kind of made up my mind. I will not buy Baikal unless it is a semi.

Cass

Not trying to push something down your throat but if you want a cheap, new shotgun thats reliable, light enough (7lbs approx) with multi chokes and owned by one of the best gun manufacturers in the world (Beretta), Bettinsoli - 28" diamond sporter. €800 - €850 approx. Can't go wrong for the money.

shannonpowerlab

I was looking at a Bettinsoli as well.

Do you know one at equivalent price range with bit more weight?

Cass

Not really. Most of them come in at about 7 - 8lbs max. Its heavy enough. My Beretta comes in at just a taste over 7lb and its plenty. I shoot roughly from 150 - 250 cartridges each weekend and never suffer serious recoil or painful shoulder afterwards. Don't get too caught up in the weight issue. You don't want a gun that you're tired carrying after half an hour.