Research A Soldier

katyt

I have downloaded the medal card - it is a great find, thank you. The only number appears to be his own number. There are some details under cause of discharge, but it is difficult to read other than the word 'sickness'.

There is another section 'Action Taken' and on this is written B/79.

katyt

Would it be normal at that time for someone who was in the army for just one year, and did not serve abroad, to become a Sergeant?

arnhem44

In my opinion I would think that making Sergeant in his first year and having not served overseas wouldn't be impossible I suppose,he may of been well disciplined with good leadership qualities,came from a good family background for instance,things were very different back then.Judging by his age in all likelihood he would of had no previous Military service other than his time during the war.Medal cards are confusing at the best of times and things like B/79 refer to Kings regulations,each section refers to some regulation or other.

johnny_doyle

katyt wrote: »

Would it be normal at that time for someone who was in the army for just one year, and did not serve abroad, to become a Sergeant?

his rise was fast :

Enlisted, Private 19/8/1914 5th Battn
L/Cpl 21/9/1914
Cpl 13/10/1914
A/Sgt 14/12/1914
Sgt confirmed 14/12/1914
moved to 4th Battn 24/6/1915

At a time when the army was expanding rapidly and looking for administration/leadership skills there must have been something about him.

katyt

Thank you for that johnny_doyle - great information. My mother will be thrilled to get this information on her father.
Did you get anywhere with the brother James Carney, 7830, who died in Galipoli on 27/12/1915.

johnny_doyle

katyt wrote: »

Thank you for that johnny_doyle - great information. My mother will be thrilled to get this information on her father.
Did you get anywhere with the brother James Carney, 7830, who died in Galipoli on 27/12/1915.

I'm not seeing anything else on James at the moment.

Do you know if his medals are still in the family?

katyt

johnny_doyle wrote: »

I'm not seeing anything else on James at the moment.

Do you know if his medals are still in the family?

No, we did not know poor James existed until a few months ago. The brother, Frank my grandfather, died when my mother was a child. She had never heard of a brother James.
From the great Hansard reference you gave earlier, James was in the African campaign. That must have been the 2nd Boer War, where the Iniskillings distinguished themselves. That means he must have joined up in or before 1899.
The Hansard says:

No. 7830, Sergeant J. Carney, Royal Inniskillings, who contributed to the support of the home, was killed in Callipoli, having served through the African campaign and been dangerously wounded in France when he won the Russian Cross of St. George.

johnny_doyle

on the Enniskillen War Memorial there is a Sgt J Carney Jun and a Sgt J Carney Sen.

Ireland's Memorial Records has a second Enniskillen born James Carney from the Inniskillings who died in 1918 (though his CWGC and Medal Card say Corporal rather than Sgt)

http://www.cwgc.org/search/casualty_details.aspx?casualty=273736


Any relation?

katyt

johnny_doyle wrote: »

on the Enniskillen War Memorial there is a Sgt J Carney Jun and a Sgt J Carney Sen.

Ireland's Memorial Records has a second Enniskillen born James Carney from the Inniskillings who died in 1918 (though his CWGC and Medal Card say Corporal rather than Sgt)

http://www.cwgc.org/search/casualty_details.aspx?casualty=273736


Any relation?

No, I don't think so, but we know very little about that side of the family.

johnny_doyle

there are a couple of references to Frank in this document

https://dspace.stir.ac.uk/dspace/bitstream/1893/1517/1/robert%20john%20lynch-24072009.pdf

It's searchable but doesn't jump to the right page for me. Frank gets mentioned on page 93 (as printed on the page) as being an IRB man and Commandant of South Fermanagh Brigade then 1st Northern Division.

NLI has a letter from Frank in the Florence O'Donoghue collection :

http://www.nli.ie/pdfs/mss%20lists/A18_%20FlorODonoghue.pdf


Have you managed to find the family on the 1911 census? or James on the 1901 census?

katyt

johnny_doyle wrote: »

Have you managed to find the family on the 1911 census? or James on the 1901 census?

Thank you for both those references - I didn't know either of them.
James does not appear in the 1901 census, I reckon now he was overseas in the army. Frank was 4 years old and is on the census!
The family do not appear at all in the 1911 census. We are speculating that they may have objected to the census being done.
We know that Frank Carney was in the IRB, and was interned in Ballykinlar Jail with Peadar Kearney, Sean Lemass and a bunch of others. We have in the family an autograph book owned by his girlfriend of the time, my grandmother, where they all left lengthy notes.
Frank refused to fight in the Civil War - he would not turn on his friends, and was again jailed. He then became TD for Donegal, and was in Fianna Fail when it first entered the Dail in 1927.
He was in the first Government of Fianna Fail. He was in Dublin to attend the opening of the new Dail sitting in October 1932 when he died, at just 36. The entire government went to his funeral in Dublin and in Derry, where he lived. The papers say that Michael Collins was known as the Big Fella, Dev was the Long Fella and Frank Carney was the Wee Man!

arnhem44

He may not of been overseas during the census,soldiers and RIC were often listed using there initials while stationed in a barracks here .It's just a possibility and might be worth looking into if you haven't done so already but is a lot more difficult to pin down your man.

katyt

arnhem44 wrote: »

He may not of been overseas during the census,soldiers and RIC were often listed using there initials while stationed in a barracks here .It's just a possibility and might be worth looking into if you haven't done so already but is a lot more difficult to pin down your man.

I'll try that, thanks. I have written to the Inniskilling Museum in Enniskillen to see if they have any information on James.

katyt

arnhem44 wrote: »

He may not of been overseas during the census,soldiers and RIC were often listed using there initials while stationed in a barracks here .It's just a possibility and might be worth looking into if you haven't done so already but is a lot more difficult to pin down your man.

I think I may have found him - THANKS! There is a J Carney in the 1911 Census in Gortmore Barracks in Omagh. I willcheck if this is the Inniskillings, and if this is the right J Carney. We know there were 2 in the Iniskillings at that time. (I should be working!)

johnny_doyle

katyt wrote: »

I think I may have found him - THANKS! There is a J Carney in the 1911 Census in Gortmore Barracks in Omagh. I willcheck if this is the Inniskillings, and if this is the right J Carney. We know there were 2 in the Iniskillings at that time. (I should be working!)

the J Carney in Gortmore is a Cpl, Royal Inniskilling Fusiliers, RC, formerly a fisherman from Co Fermanagh which would tie in with Edward's occupation. He's on page 2, no 28.

katyt

Yes, that is definitely our James.
Does anyone here know about medals at all? I have been trying to find out about his medal, but I am getting more confused! The medal is the Cross of the Order of St George, 4th Class. All the information I see says it is a Russian medal. How did it come to be given to people in the British Army? Were the medals engraved, ie. would it be possible to try to locate the original?

johnny_doyle

I believe that large numbers of the 3rd and 4th class of the Order of St George were awarded to British and Commonwealth troops fighting the Turks by the Russians. The Inniskilling Musuem enquiry you have might shed more light on those awarded to the 1st Battn men.

No idea if they were engraved I'm afraid.

johnny_doyle

katyt wrote: »

The family do not appear at all in the 1911 census. We are speculating that they may have objected to the census being done.

I think this might be Edward in the 1911 census

http://www.census.nationalarchives.ie/pages/1911/Cavan/Killykeen/Derryna/340044/


info on James still proving elusive.

katyt

johnny_doyle wrote: »

I think this might be Edward in the 1911 census

http://www.census.nationalarchives.ie/pages/1911/Cavan/Killykeen/Derryna/340044/


info on James still proving elusive.

That must be him! It says he is married - so Eliza, his wife must be still alive, and Frank would be 15. I can't find them anywhere - but then I couldn't find Edward either! Thanks a million.

katyt

I heard from the nice lady in the Inniskillings Museum today. She gave me contacts to get James Carney's medals and his service record. She said that they don't keep Soldiers' service records, but she did have a record of his Great War record. The key information was:

Campaigns: Great War
Medals: 1914 Star – British War Medal – Victory Medal – Cross of St George 4th Cl (Russia) LG.25.8.15
Killed/Died: DOW 27 Dec 1915 Age 36 Place:Gallipoli
Wounded: 20/10/1914
Service History: Disembarked France (23/08/1914). Proceeded to join 1st Bn (16/10/15). Joined Bn (01/11/1915). Performed the duties of A/CQMS (20/11/1915 – 24/11/1915).

johnny_doyle

step in the right direction there then.

I see you have a post on the 1914-18 Great War Forum which would have been my next suggestion. Someone may well have the unit war diary and be able to find a reference to him in there and/or give more info re the dates you've got for him.

katyt

Today there was info on the Great War Forum regarding my great uncle James Carney. It gives details of James death and a map of the exact spot where he died. It is amazing how touching this is all these years later, and with a relative I never knew existed until very recently.

On the 27th December 1915 the 1st Battalion, Royal Inniskilling Fusiliers relieved the 1st Border Regt. (this relief was completed by 1300 hrs) in the firing line, in the area of Northern Barricade
It informs that the trenches were in a poor condition due to heavy rain. The Inniskillings also took over an extra 200 yards of firing line in the direction of Gull Ravine. This seems to have necessitated all four companies being in the firing line at once. There is a ref to a 'marked increase in enemy shelling' and the casualties for that day are given as; I killed, 2 died of wounds and 1 wounded.

Gregsor

Hi guys i just found out my great grandfather Christopher Byrne was in the Connaught Rangers in the early 1900's and fought in the Boer war.

I believe he was awarded a medal of sort which i must find out.

I am in the early stage of getting the the details and it was actually my cousin in Australia who has been researching him and he is going to forward on some of the information he has found in the coming weeks.

Exciting times

Hope i posted this in the right section.

Shutuplaura

My Granduncle was killed in 1917 in the Ypres Salient. I've found his census records and but I know that his service records were among those destroyed in the blitz.

Is there anything further I can find out about his time in the army. I'm aware that there is a medal award card (called a MIC??) but would there be anything such as battalion rolls that could tell me more about this role in his company or something like that? He would have been a L/Cpl.

Ponster

Shutuplaura wrote: »

Is there anything further I can find out about his time in the army. I'm aware that there is a medal award card (called a MIC??) but would there be anything such as battalion rolls that could tell me more about this role in his company or something like that? He would have been a L/Cpl.

There's a very good chance that these exist but afaik there isn't one place where these are centralised and so you'll have to contact the appropriate records office.

johnny_doyle

there's usually more miscellaneous info about a soldier killed than there is about one who survived.

Presumably you've checked the CWGC site? If Irish, he might have an entry in Soldiers Died in the Great War and Ireland's War Memorial Records. There is a small chance that there might be an entry in De Ruvigny's. In the absence of service records unit war diaries are worth searching for but these tend not to give much info about any individual soldiers.

There's a lot more info now available about casualties thanks to books such as Wexfords War Dead by Tom Burnell which include some personal snippets based on newspaper entries. Other counties have been done.

katyt

Hi Johnny, yes I have checked CWGC. I got that lovely pic of the Twelve Tree Copse there too.
I am at a dead end at the moment without his service record, so I welcome any help.
I would love to find out when he signed up. I reckon it could have been round 1898. Are there lists of regiments anywhere at that time? Is there an equivalent of the 'Great War Forum' for the Boer War, does anyone know?
Do you know if there is a way of getting the information as to why he got his medal in 1914 , or would that only be on his service record? Is there a central place for these?

arnhem44

http://www.victorianwars.com/

johnny_doyle

Gregsor wrote: »

Hi guys i just found out my great grandfather Christopher Byrne was in the Connaught Rangers in the early 1900's and fought in the Boer war.

I believe he was awarded a medal of sort which i must find out.

I am in the early stage of getting the the details and it was actually my cousin in Australia who has been researching him and he is going to forward on some of the information he has found in the coming weeks.

Exciting times

Hope i posted this in the right section.

if you have a service number, date of birth and place of birth, post it up and it should be possible to see if he then went on to serve during WW1. There is a medal card for a Christopher Byrne (7850 and 3/7829 Connaughts) and some service records.

There are links to the various medals re the Boer War and casualty figures for the Connaughts at :

http://www.northeastmedals.co.uk/british_regiment/irish/connaught_rangers.htm

R.Dub.Fusilier

this is not a WW1 query but maybe someone can help. i am looking for information about 6978300 FSR P Gallagher royal irish fusiliers. he most likely served in WW2 and after. have no idea where to start so any help would be appreciated.