Research A Soldier

johnny_doyle

census record for 1911 puts his age as 18 and job as bootmaker which ties in with the service record

http://www.census.nationalarchives.ie/pages/1911/Dublin/Wood_Quay/Werburgh_Street/68703/


The record for him on Findagrave has a photo of his memorial inscription

http://www.findagrave.com/cgi-bin/fg.cgi?page=gr&GSln=murray&GSfn=constantine&GSbyrel=in&GSdy=1914&GSdyrel=in&GSob=n&GRid=56241436&df=all&

johnny_doyle

Brendan, you just beat me to the RIR link.

Bowen-Colhurst being the chap from the Easter Rising and the shooting of Sheehy Skeffington.

Murrayer22

Thank you all so much for all your help.
Can't believe all the things I found out about my Great Uncle yesterday.

Hopefully I will have luck in getting the letters sent between Constantine and his Dad Robert, and to see if his medals were ever claimed.

Thanks again
Lydia

arnhem44

Hi Lydia,it's great that there was so much to be found on your relative.A casualty is most certainly easier to find info on rather than a survivor.In relation to his medals,normally on the medal index card (that has been posted up previously) shows if the medals were returned,all medals would of been posted out to the recipient or there next of kin bar Officers who had to apply for there medals.The medal index card doesn't show that the medals were returned so it's most likely some member(maybe distant member) of your family had them,they may have been sold,divided up or simply lost over time or are still in the families possession,a bit of detective work may turn up something.Also on the medal index card on the right hand side lists the page numbers and what medal rolls they appear on in the records,these can be viewed but not online however members on another forum may have these photographed and may be possible to view also,they may not tell much but it's just another piece to add to your research.

arnhem44

I forgot to mention that Constantine Murray's family would of also received a four inch bronze memorial plaque with his name on it and also a memorial scroll,these were issued to the next of kin of all casualties.Same as below

johnny_doyle

his service record notes he was in A Company. His assessment in 1913 was signed by Capt J C Bowen-Colthurst who described Rifleman Murray as a good steady reliable man.

The father, Robert Murray, signed a receipt for the 1914 Star in July 1919.

Happy Monday

johnny_doyle wrote: »

his service record notes he was in A Company. His assessment in 1913 was signed by Capt J C Bowen-Colthurst who described Rifleman Murray as a good steady reliable man.

The father, Robert Murray, signed a receipt for the 1914 Star in July 1919.

Johnny - Can you let me know where can this kind of information be found on a deceased solider please?

johnny_doyle

Happy Monday wrote: »

Johnny - Can you let me know where can this kind of information be found on a deceased solider please?

in this case from his service record on Ancestry. Most service records were destroyed during WW2 so they're not always available. Guards regiments are the exception; stored in filing cabinets and have to be requested.

Some pension records are on Ancestry too.

Happy Monday

johnny_doyle wrote: »

in this case from his service record on Ancestry. Most service records were destroyed during WW2 so they're not always available. Guards regiments are the exception; stored in filing cabinets and have to be requested.

Some pension records are on Ancestry too.

Cheers Johnny just wanted to make sure that's where you were going.
Yes - my own granduncle's record was destroyed in 1940. That is a shame as there would have been so much information there we can't access in any other way.

johnny_doyle

arnhem44 wrote: »

I forgot to mention that Constantine Murray's family would of also received a four inch bronze memorial plaque with his name on it and also a memorial scroll,these were issued to the next of kin of all casualties.Same as below

that's a nice collection. The object at the top right is a match box holder. The blue stripes are overseas service stripes, one per year, and would be worn on the right sleeve of a service jacket near the wrist/forearm.

The Death Penny (top left item) of my Gt Grandfather was what got me interested in WW1 history.

Murrayer22

arnhem44 wrote: »

I forgot to mention that Constantine Murray's family would of also received a four inch bronze memorial plaque with his name on it and also a memorial scroll,these were issued to the next of kin of all casualties.Same as below

Wow, thanks for that. just found all the info on Constantines Medals and his family letters to the Army looking for information regarding him when he went missing in action. Its amazing what u can find out on here. Didnt expect to find out so much. My dad is shocked that we could find out. He's not technicaly minded at all so he's facinated by it all. Thank you so much for all your help and that picture of all the medals is great.

Thanks again
Lydia

Eve222

I would like to find out how to find more info on my granduncle who was KIA in WW1. This is what I have found so far:
Private Denis McCarthy Service No: 25525 7th South Irish Horse Bn.
Later 49th Infantry Brigade in the 16th Irish Division. Royal Irish Regiment
Born July 1892. KIA 30/11/1917
Parents Michael and Margaret McCarthy, Tankardstown, Kilmallock, Co Limerick
British War and Victory Medal
Joined up in Dublin
Buried in Croisilles British Cemetery

He was killed while relieving 2nd Battalion the Royal Dublin Fusiliers. Five other soldiers were killed also and a Captain GC Colville.

They had left the Belfast Camp. Does anyone know where that would have been? Is it possible to find out how he died?

Thanks, Eve

johnny_doyle

his medal card shows he was no 2039 while in the South Irish Horse and then 25525 when he went to the Royal Irish Regt.

Ireland's Memorial Records for WW1 casualties repearts what you already have. Ditto Soldiers Died in the Great War (SDGW)

Name:Denis Mccarthy
Birth Place:Tankardstown, Co. Limerick
Death Date:30 Nov 1917
Death Location:France & Flanders
Enlistment Location Dublin
Rank Private
Regiment:Royal Irish Regiment
Battalion:7th Battalion
Number:25525
Type of Casualty:Killed in action
Theatre of War:Western European Theatre
Comments:Formerly 2039, S. Ir. Horse

Echoed on the list of SIH dead

http://www.southirishhorse.com/documents/sih_dead.htm

Can't find much else about him unfortunately.

Belfast Camp appears to be at Ervillers in France

http://www.southirishhorse.com/documents/7sih_riregt_war_diaries_1.htm

Eve222

Thank you very much Johnny. Every piece of information is good to have. A year ago I knew nothing at all about this man, I only found out about him in a local history book! I was amazed and sad that he had been forgotten. He deserves to be remembered. Again thank you.

johnny_doyle

seems a disappointingly small amout of info for a chap who goes off to do his bit.

Can't quite make out from the snippets online as to when the SIH became the 7th Royal Irish Regiment but Denis appears to have started his war as a cavalryman and ended as an infantryman

http://www.southirishhorse.com/documents/sih_war_diaries_2.htm

There is an SIH memorial in St Patrick's

http://www.irishwarmemorials.ie/html/showMemorial.php?show=407

Couldn't find a reference to Denis McCarthy on the list of people on the above site.

Is it you who left a comment on his Findagrave entry?

Eve222

Yes Johnny, that was me.

Eve222

I was looking up Ervillers on the net. It looks like soldiers were buried not far from where they died. I wonder where the bodies were until these grave yards were put in place.

93 years ago on Tue Denis died. It seems along time ago, but since I found out about Denis he and his brothers and sisters, his parents, (my great grandparents) have come alive for me. Denis had ten brothers and sisters, one died as a child. A sister went to the States, another moved to Dublin. His brother Martin, my grandfather stayed in the same place all his life. Another brother James was arrest in the Civil war, and the eldest brother Robert born in 1882 was home in the 1901 census, but I couldn't find him anywhere in Ireland in 1911 so he is a mystery. Denis' mother died in 1924, I can't imagine what she suffered. The family lived near Bruree and I read there was fierce fighting right outside her door during the civil war.

katyt

My Mother's father died when she was young, and she did not know that he had a brother who died in the Crimea. We have just discovered my great Uncle, and I would welcome any further information anyone can contribute. What I know is that he was buried in Twelve Tree Copse cemetery and he was "Serjeant J Carney, 7830, 1st Batallion, Royal Inniskilling Fusiliers, died 27 December 1915" He was awarded the Cross of the Order of Saint George.

Ponster

I guess you already have the CWGC info based on what you have posted.

His name was James Carney, born in Enniskillen and died in Gallipoli.

I'll see what I can dig up.

katyt

Thanks, any info would be most helpful.
James may have joined up with his younger brother, my grandfather Francis Carney. Frank Carney was born in 1896 and we know that he was also in the army. The story we have is that Frank was gassed with mustard gas and was discharged, but we have no record of this.
We know he became a TD, but was always sickly after this and died in October 1932.
I don't have any army records for either of the brothers, and any help would be great.

johnny_doyle

the case of Francis Carney was discussed in Parliament

http://hansard.millbanksystems.com/commons/1916/dec/20/naval-and-military-pensions-and-grants


his medal card on Ancestry shows enlisted 19/8/1914; discharged 2/12/1915.

Ponster

There are records available for a Francis Carney from Enniskillen, born ~1895 whose father was Edward Carney, 18 Abbey street, Enniskillen.

Could that be him ?

p.s. Discharged as was physically unfit for duty.

katyt

OMG that's completely new information, thank you. I reckon he never did get that pension. His wife died in 1941 leaving the six children as orphans, and penniless.

katyt

Yes, that's him. Any luck with James? I wonder did they join up at the same time?
The discharge date of 2/12/1915 suggests that he also was in Galipoli. When looking up James, I found the following:
Where the 1st Battalion Inniskilling Fusiliers were during the war –
August 1914 : in Trimulgherrey, India. Returned to UK and landed at Avonmouth on 10 January 1915.
10 January 1915 : attached to 87th Brigade in 29th Division. Moved to Rugby.
Marchg 1915 : sailed, going via Egypt and landed at Cape Helles, Gallipoli, on 25 April 1915.
January 1916 : evacuated from Gallipoli to Egypt.
18 March 1916 : landed at Marseilles for serice in France.
5 February 1918 : transferred to 109th Brigade in 36th (Ulster) Division.

johnny_doyle

the service record that Ponster found matches the medal card. His number was 11122 rather than the 1122 mentioned in Parliament.

The London Gazette has the award for James and the Cross of St George

http://www.london-gazette.co.uk/issues/29275/supplements/8506/page.pdf

katyt

johnny_doyle wrote: »

the service record that Ponster found matches the medal card. His number was 11122 rather than the 1122 mentioned in Parliament.

The London Gazette has the award for James and the Cross of St George

http://www.london-gazette.co.uk/issues/29275/supplements/8506/page.pdf

Just to clarify, when you say 'medal card' - is that just Frank's service record, or did he too get a medal?

arnhem44

All soldiers who served in a theatre of war between the qualifying date were entitled to medals,the MIC or Medal Index Card which is the meaning shows what medals a soldier was entitled to and what page the medals appeared on the medal rolls,it also shows which regiment or regiments a soldier served with with his relevant service numbers to those regiments and sometimes will show the date he actually entered that theatre of war he was destined for and on a very slim chance it also may show the address where the next of kin was living.His service record is separate to this.This might help http://www.1914-1918.net/grandad/grandad.htm

katyt

arnhem44 wrote: »

All soldiers who served in a theatre of war between the qualifying date were entitled to medals,the MIC or Medal Index Card which is the meaning shows what medals a soldier was entitled to...

Thank you for this, it is really helpful.

johnny_doyle

katyt wrote: »

Just to clarify, when you say 'medal card' - is that just Frank's service record, or did he too get a medal?

more info about the WW1 campaign medals and medal index cards can be found at :

http://www.nationalarchives.gov.uk/documentsonline/medals.asp

Frank's medal index card is the Design 3 type.

Because he didn't serve overseas he wasn't entitled to any of the campaign medals but looks like he might have had a Silver War Badge issued.

arnhem44

johnny_doyle wrote: »

more info about the WW1 campaign medals and medal index cards can be found at :

http://www.nationalarchives.gov.uk/documentsonline/medals.asp

Frank's medal index card is the Design 3 type.

Because he didn't serve overseas he wasn't entitled to any of the campaign medals but looks like he might have had a Silver War Badge issued.

does it give his SWB number?