Which Loco is your favourite?

Cookie_Monster

From all the comments on the Orange Loco Thread decided to put up a poll.

So which and why?

141 for me, it just looks compact, rounded and smart. I even have a model of one:D

I realise 141/184 are practically the same but for those pedants out there...

EDIT: if other pleasse elaborate

weehamster

err....
How about the one which get me to my destination on time.
How about the one which departs on time.
Or how about the one that doesn't break down.
Oh yea, what about the one that is maintained to the highest standards.

Or maybe this is my favourite loco

:cool:

L1011

Locosexuals anonymous is thatta way...

but I'll sneak in a vote for the 071 either way

Stark

James is my favourite.

Victor

Extra option added to poll.

I like different locos for different jobs. When the Mark 3 push-pull sets were bought, they gave a few 071s a refresh and they looked quite nice. It would be reassuring it the locos got a bit more TLC.

Cookie_Monster

Victor wrote: »

Extra option added to poll.

Don't be so cynical:P

lord lucan

121's FTW. Always loved them,probably from seeing them pass through leixlip on the sligo all the time as a nipper.

Run_to_da_hills

A Class had by far the best sound of all CIE locos. I use to deliberatly be late for school some mornings so that I could get the express train pulled by one of these, would get carriage directly behind loco and have the window open.

Also loved the 121's use to see them on the Rosslare route. Called them Tigers as a kid.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QGxziX3TQek

Typewriter

121's for me.

They will always remind me of my Dad bringing us out to greystones when we were kids.

Cookie_Monster

I've never had the pleasure of seeing a 121 in the flesh, pity.

Been on the old 141 hauled trains in fota years ago, what an experience. You could almost see the rails through the floor on those carriages:D

corktina

well well, arent there a lot of closet trainspotters on here....:D

Cookie_Monster

corktina wrote: »

well well, arent there a lot of closet trainspotters on here....:D

guilty

newmug

BALLS! I clicked the wrong one, I meant to vote for 071!

Eiretrains

121s for me, particularly in grey & yellow, mainly because they looked so modern and out of place for Ireland when they first arrived.:cool:

newmug

Being a newbie locosexual, I dont see the difference between 121, 141, 181 etc. They all have the same "face", or do they?

Transportuser09

newmug wrote: »

Being a newbie locosexual, I dont see the difference between 121, 141, 181 etc. They all have the same "face", or do they?

121s have only one cab, which is slightly taller than that found on 141/181/071s. (the 121 was actually a standard export loco, apart from the gauge, made by GM at the time, locos after it where specially designed for CIÉ). Under the hood they are practically the same as 141s.

More information can be found here http://www.irishtractiongroup.com/ITG_locos/locofleet.htm

Cookie_Monster

newmug wrote: »

Being a newbie locosexual, I dont see the difference between 121, 141, 181 etc. They all have the same "face", or do they?

as said already 121 are quite different. 141 and 181 are basically the same, 181 had a more powerful engine and 7 vents under the front window on each end.

Eiretrains

Here's an example of a GM 121 style export loco in Argentina, very similar to how the Irish ones once looked.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=r0zh0xAhANo&feature=related

More Irish locos here also:o
http://eiretrains.com/Photo_Gallery/Irish%20Locos/A&Bindex.html

flyingsnail

I do like 121's but my favourite has to be steam.

newmug

My bad, I meant whats the difference between the 071, 141, and 181's? Is it just engine stuff? They look identical. @ Cookie Monster, I cant see any vents in these pics (Eiretrains, you da MAN!). My favs are still the 071's in IR livery:D

Eiretrains

Some vents got plated over in later years when the locos were overhauled. Here's some that didn't though.
http://eiretrains.com/Photo_Gallery/Irish%20Locos/181%20Class/slides/183%20(1).html

http://eiretrains.com/Photo_Gallery/Irish%20Locos/181%20Class/slides/187%20(1).html

tombliboo83

My fav is the 201 for its sheer power but the 071 are the best to work with in terms of reliability (if they were looked after). The 121 looks the most unique but as my Dad said they were great to look at and a horror to drive esp in the cold brrrr

newmug

tombliboo83 wrote: »

My fav is the 201 for its sheer power but the 071 are the best to work with in terms of reliability (if they were looked after). The 121 looks the most unique but as my Dad said they were great to look at and a horror to drive esp in the cold brrrr

You ever in the cab of a loco?

steamengine

Fair dues to you Newmug for resurrecting this thread, and thanks to Ciaran for this great video - showing one of the 'others' N0 85, Merlin passing through Killester once again, just as she did many times when i was a kid !!! :):)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QIMtDvVRfH4

Transportuser09

newmug wrote: »

My bad, I meant whats the difference between the 071, 141, and 181's? Is it just engine stuff? They look identical. @ Cookie Monster, I cant see any vents in these pics (Eiretrains, you da MAN!). My favs are still the 071's in IR livery:D

The 141/181 are of Bo-Bo wheel arrangement (two powered axles per bogie), 071s are Co-Co (three powered axles per bogie), so 141/181s are shorter as a result. 141/181s have different engine types to the 071 and wouldn't be near as powerful. 071s also had turbochargers fitted. Common practice was to use 2 141/181s to do the work of one 071 if the latter wasn't available.

Cookie_Monster

tombliboo83 wrote: »

My fav is the 201 for its sheer power but the 071 are the best to work with in terms of reliability (if they were looked after).

not any more for the 071. they break down constantly theses days, an engineer I know say they are totally knackered.
They also can't start them on cold mornings and need to leave them running overnight at times during the winter.

Oliver1985

071 for me

CIE

Cookie_Monster wrote: »

not any more for the 071. they break down constantly theses days, an engineer I know say they are totally knackered.
They also can't start them on cold mornings and need to leave them running overnight at times during the winter.

It's normal to keep those locomotives running, because they are literally water-cooled and do not use ethylene glycol/water mix as a coolant.

If they're "knackered", then they aren't being maintained. The 645s in the 141 class ran for over 45 years in service, the locomotives themselves 50 years in service. (The 181 class lasted 43 years.)

newmug wrote: »

My bad, I meant whats the difference between the 071, 141, and 181's? Is it just engine stuff? They look identical

To add to what Transportuser09 posted:

• The 141 class was originally built with EMD 8-567CR engines with 875 hp (567 is the cubic inch displacement of each cylinder, so that's a 74-litre V8 two-stroke diesel engine).
  
• The 181 class looks identical to the 141 class, but the standard engine is the 8-645E with 1,000 hp (85-litre V8). They were also newer than the 141 class by an average of four years.
  
• The 071 class is larger than the preceding classes (100.6 tonnes mass and 17.4 m length versus the Bo-Bo engines' 67 tonnes and 13.4 m). It has a 12-645E3C engine (a 127-litre V12) of 2,475 horsepower (some sources claim 2,250 hp). These were built in 1976 and replaced the 001 class on the Dublin-Cork expresses.

The 141 and 181 classes were both of EMD's JL8 type; the 071 class are EMD JT22CW type.

Also should be noted that the engines in the 141 and 181 class were equipped with positive-aspiration Roots blowers. The 1,500-horsepower 8-645E was turbocharged; pity they never got that engine. (You can't have a naturally-aspirated two-stroke diesel engine.)

CIE

CIE wrote: »

It has a 12-645E3C engine (a 127-litre V12) of 2,475 horsepower (some sources claim 2,250 hp).

The varying figures are due to different ways of reporting engine power. The 071s are 2,475 gross with 2,250 available for traction. The 567-based locos were 950/875 and the 8-645s were 1,100/1,000.

I have a soft spot for 201s as I've spent more time on 201-hauled trains than anything else. Long before I developed an obsession with railways I used to remember getting off an ex Cork train in Heuston with my parents and "looking to see what river name was on the engine." The interest was there but it took me a long time to follow it.

Transportuser09

steamengine wrote: »

Fair dues to you Newmug for resurrecting this thread, and thanks to Ciaran for this great video - showing one of the 'others' N0 85, Merlin passing through Killester once again, just as she did many times when i was a kid !!! :):)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QIMtDvVRfH4

Very nice. Almost looks as though the steam train is going faster than the diesel following it!

tombliboo83

newmug wrote: »

You ever in the cab of a loco?

Me , my Dad and Grandfather

CIE

Karsini wrote: »

The varying figures are due to different ways of reporting engine power. The 071s are 2,475 gross with 2,250 available for traction. The 567-based locos were 950/875 and the 8-645s were 1,100/1,000

That's most curious. None of those are HEP-equipped, so that amount of horsepower lost sounds like a de-rating. It's sure a lot of horses for lighting the engine.

I have a soft spot for 201s as I've spent more time on 201-hauled trains than anything else. Long before I developed an obsession with railways I used to remember getting off an ex Cork train in Heuston with my parents and "looking to see what river name was on the engine." The interest was there but it took me a long time to follow it.

I'm somewhat older than that, so to me, "201-class" is the old C-class that became B-class through re-engining with EMD diesels. They were the first to operate the reopened Maynooth line services, with the push-pulls that were the former AEC 2600-class DMUs.

The As certainly were derated, their GM engines were 1,600hp@900rpm but derated to 1,325hp@800rpm due to reliability concerns.

A 201 on HEP loses about 600hp, they're 3,200 gross with 3,000 available for traction. So with HEP running they're at about 2,400, not much more than a 071.

steamengine

Transportuser09 wrote: »

Very nice. Almost looks as though the steam train is going faster than the diesel following it!

Yea, a 201 pushing the second Enterprise and a light engine which maybe someone could identify ??? Is it a 071 ???

flyingsnail

steamengine wrote: »

Yea, a 201 pushing the second Enterprise and a light engine which maybe someone could identify ??? Is it a 071 ???

201 Class 233 on Enterprise.

071 Class 081 light engine

corktina

ah yes, Merlin.Had ther pleasure to travel Dublin to Belfast behind that little pocket rocket a few years back....

steamengine

corktina wrote: »

ah yes, Merlin.Had ther pleasure to travel Dublin to Belfast behind that little pocket rocket a few years back....

No. 174 'Carrantuohill' an earlier class GNR 4-4-0 reputedly once reached a top speed of 114 mph. - I have no hard evidence to back this up, perhaps somebody else here might be able to confirm this. I heard this from a couple of GNR sources years back.

Eiretrains

Thanks about the Merlin video (apologies about the quality, I didn't export it properly so it's a bit fuzzy than I wanted it!).
I have one of Slieve Gullion going to Greystones, might upload that one soon. I have to admit though I'm probably more diesel than steam.:o

The diesel Enterprise was delayed by Merlin hence it was going slow, it ran right behind it within about 5 mins.:D

corktina

theres loads of these stories around about high speed locos. Theres no subsatnce to any of them IMHO....an inside cylindered 4-4-0 with a very modest boiler wouldnt do that speed even vertically off a cliff :-)

corktina

Eiretrains wrote: »

Thanks about the Merlin video (apologies about the quality, I didn't export it properly so it's a bit fuzzy than I wanted it!).
I have one of Slieve Gullion going to Greystones, might upload that one soon. I have to admit though I'm probably more diesel than steam.:o

The diesel Enterprise was delayed by Merlin hence it was going slow, it ran right behind it within about 5 mins.:D

we definately need a railwayac section on boards....

newmug

Karsini wrote: »

The As certainly were derated, their GM engines were 1,600hp@900rpm but derated to 1,325hp@800rpm due to reliability concerns.

A 201 on HEP loses about 600hp, they're 3,200 gross with 3,000 available for traction. So with HEP running they're at about 2,400, not much more than a 071.

Whats HEP?

flyingsnail

newmug wrote: »

Whats HEP?

Head end power, it is used to provide power to the coaches on the enterprise for lighting and heating ect. The rest of the IE loco hauled fleet used generator / guards van to do this. The dvt on Mk 4s and Mk 3 push pull also contain a dedicated generator to do this.

CIE

flyingsnail wrote: »

Head end power, it is used to provide power to the coaches on the enterprise for lighting and heating ect. The rest of the IE loco hauled fleet used generator / guards van to do this. The dvt on Mk 4s and Mk 3 push pull also contain a dedicated generator to do this.

Also depending on the locomotive, you could either run the HEP generator from the main "prime mover" (diesel motor that runs the generator for the traction motors) if you have enough horsepower; or if not, some locos have a secondary engine that runs at a constant speed attached to the HEP generator. AFAICS, you'd need at least 4,000 horses in the "prime mover" to do without the secondary motor.

CIE

CIE wrote: »

AFAICS, you'd need at least 4,000 horses in the "prime mover" to do without the secondary motor.

Which is probably why the 201s have so much trouble with HEP, GM actually recommended a secondary engine to IE at the time.

Cookie_Monster

Eiretrains wrote: »

I have to admit though I'm probably more diesel than steam.:o

good man, no need for the embarrassed smiley.

Diesel is where its at :)

Cookie_Monster

Karsini wrote: »

Which is probably why the 201s have so much trouble with HEP, GM actually recommended a secondary engine to IE at the time.

indeed, I've heard that before, but that CIE didn't agree at all. and thats why so many 201s have failed due to being on fire on the ent:D

you'll regularly see non ent livery 201s on the ent train these days so they don't overly stress the 4 or so ent designated 201s (208,209, 215,216 iirc). though they arrival of mk3 egvs should resolve this problem

Cookie_Monster

Cookie_Monster wrote: »

good man, no need for the embarrassed smiley.

Diesel is where its at :)

Same as, though that might be indicative of my age. I'm 26 so still a baba in this circle!

Cookie_Monster

Cookie_Monster wrote: »

you'll regularly see non ent livery 201s on the ent train these days so they don't overly stress the 4 or so ent designated 201s (208,209, 215,216 iirc). though they arrival of mk3 egvs should resolve this problem

Correct, though only 227, 228 and 231 are permitted north of Dundalk now as they're the only ones fitted with TPWS for NIR (outside of the Enterprise branded locos). 231 hasn't been on the Enterprise for a while now. They tried running with just 206, 207, 208, 209, 230 and 233 when the mandatory TPWS regs came in, but obviously decided that wasn't enough.

Cookie_Monster

speaking of 201s

some of ye may be interested in this a 1:76 scale model of the loco, brand new announcement from Murphy Models. I've seen it, looks amazing and great spec

steamengine

corktina wrote: »

theres loads of these stories around about high speed locos. Theres no subsatnce to any of them IMHO....an inside cylindered 4-4-0 with a very modest boiler wouldnt do that speed even vertically off a cliff :-)

'City of Truro' 102mph 1904

Losty Dublin

Karsini wrote: »

Which is probably why the 201s have so much trouble with HEP, GM actually recommended a secondary engine to IE at the time.

Sorry to say but that's something of an old wife's tale about EMD recommending against HEP being used as well as a smaller engine being offered. EMD fitted HEP in locomotives for years and they knew that the tender asked required by CIE at the time needed a HEP solution, something that they actually installed in the loco as an order option. The 645 engine had been out of general production for 10 years at the time of construction so there was no other option and only one smaller variation of the series was available, an 8 cylinder model that blows barely 2,000 BHP. Closer to the truth is that the HEP was overworking the engine on the services it was needed; engines not appearing on the Belfast runs fare far better overall as things go

PS The Dad was an inspector on the job and knew his engines better than he knew us