McCabe Murderers released

Het-Field

http://www.irishtimes.com/newspaper/breaking/2009/0805/breaking14.htm

The killers of Garda Gerry McCabe in Limerick (1996) have been released from prison after serving 10 years.

No doubt Toireasa Ferris will seek to have Kerry County Council make them freemen of Kerry.

RedPlanet

So what is your opinion?
The fact is they were found guilty, sentenced and served their time. End of.

Let me guess, you're hoping to start another bash SF thread?

Liam Byrne

They were found guilty of a lesser charge due to intimidation, which is the reason why many people will never accept that they've "served their time", much like how Gerry Adams STILL doesn't accept that they weren't entitled to early release.

If he's entitled to that opinion - voicing it even today, when it's no longer relevant - then we're entitled to ours.

And where was SF even mentioned, RedPlanet ? I didn't see Het-Field refer to that party AT ALL.

Murderers being jailed, or released from jail should have nothing to do with SF; I presume - through laws of averages - many thugs are jailed and released every day of the week who are members of Labour, FF, FG ?

Of course, TDs from those parties don't usually pick them up from jail, thereby inviting criticism and comment; but that's THEIR choice.

marco murphy

Liam Byrne wrote: »

They were found guilty of a lesser charge due to intimidation, which is the reason why many people will never accept that they've "served their time", much like how Gerry Adams STILL doesn't accept that they weren't entitled to early release.

If he's entitled to that opinion - voicing it even today, when it's no longer relevant - then we're entitled to ours.

And where was SF even mentioned, RedPlanet ? I didn't see Het-Field refer to that party AT ALL.

Murderers being jailed, or released from jail should have nothing to do with SF; I presume - through laws of averages - many thugs are jailed and released every day of the week who are members of Labour, FF, FG ?

Of course, TDs from those parties don't usually pick them up from jail, thereby inviting criticism and comment; but that's THEIR choice.

The TD will be re-elected regardless.

FTA69

Excellent news, they should have been released in 1998 as the were qualifying prisoners under the GFA. Hopefully they can now get on with their lives.

spank_inferno

I dont think the release of murderers back into society can ever be considered "excellent news"

300 new jobs for my home town is "excellent news"
The wife coming home with a big pay rise is "excellent news"

the release of these scum isnt.

Liam Byrne

FTA69 wrote: »

Excellent news, they should have been released in 1998 as the were qualifying prisoners under the GFA. Hopefully they can now get on with their lives.

Go on - FTA; explain to me again how you assume that they qualified ? Without the smoke-and-mirrors this time around.

And then explain to me how anyone but the most twisted and sick individual could claim that the release of cold blooded cop-killers is "excellent news".

Your opinion on this sickens me.

The only sentence that I would use the word "hopefully" and "their lives" for is toward that of Ann McCabe and her family.

Gerry doesn't have that luxury, of course.

Actually before you reply, FTA; don't bother. I've no intention of throwing up on my laptop, so having seen you use the words "Excellent news" at the start of your post, I'll be using the "ignore user" option..... so don't actually bother replying..... no amount of bull**** that you spout would cover the fact that you obviously prefer to have murderers and thugs on the street than Gardai.

bmm

FTA69 wrote: »

Hopefully they can now get on with their lives.

Unfortunately Det. Gerry McCabe's widow Anne will never be able to get on with her life.

The_Minister

They shot two Gardai in cold blood, murdering one.

They should have been in jail for longer, and it's not "excellent news" that they were released.

dloob

RedPlanet wrote: »

So what is your opinion?
The fact is they were found guilty, sentenced and served their time. End of.

Let me guess, you're hoping to start another bash SF thread?

My opinion is they should have hung for capital murder.
Hopefully the guards will keep a close eye on them, wouldn't want them getting away with breaking red lights or doing 50.0001 in a 50 zone

Het-Field

It has nothing to do with Sinn Fein. These are individuals who in a cold blooded manner took a life. Equally, there are another two cowards who ran away from responsibility, and have been on the run ever since.

Under the law, they were entitled to be released, and that is fair enough. However, the normal course of justice was not adhered to. It is well know that witness tampering, intimidation and shenanagins were engaged in to try and exonerate these pieces of human excrement. It is inexcusable what occured, and I have met more than one "Republican" who believes that regardless of the GFA these men should never have been jailed in the first place.

Marie Murray shot a man in the Phoenix Park in 1977. She was escaping from an armed robbery committed in common design with her husband. The man she shot and killed happened to be an off duty police officer. This left her liable to a charge of capital murder, which she was convicted of. This conviction ensured a death sentance, and before the law on recklessness was clarified in the run up to her execution date, the gallows were being built in kilmanham Jail. This sentence was commuted to life, after it was deemed she was not reckless vis-avis the man's job.

In the McCabe case, these men knew what they were doing. To hide behind the GFA, and "martyerdom" is bollocks. These men, like Marie Murray (and her husband) killed a man in cold blood. Forgiveness for the act should not be forthcoming, and I only hope that they slink back into a quiet life, with NO public fanfare from the "Republican" community in the North. Either it doesnt mitigate for what they have done, and under the legal definition of Muder, they are just that.

Cork Boy

Unfortunately not - just as the brits had to drop the extradition charges 'to keep the peace', the gardai will be under instruction to lay off these two individuals.

We also voted in a referendum to remove any sort of death penalty in ireland a few years back so as much as i'd like to see them strung up, i'm a democrat who recognises the Republic of Ireland, its courts, and its laws... unlike a certain TD who refused to recognise the irish court he was tried in for gun running.

Edit... i'll give ye a hint - said TD collected these lads from castlerea

prinz

CODE OF CONDUCT FOR MEMBERS OF DÁIL ÉIREANN OTHER THAN OFFICE HOLDERS


CODE
1. Members must, in good faith, strive to maintain the public trust placed in them, and exercise the influence gained from their membership of Dáil Éireann to advance the public interest.
2. Members must conduct themselves in accordance with the provisions and spirit of the Code of Conduct and ensure that their conduct does not bring the integrity of their office or the Dáil into serious disrepute.
3. (i) Members have a particular obligation to behave in a manner which is consistent with their roles as public representatives and legislators, save where there is a legitimate and sustainable conscientious objection.
(ii) Members must interact with authorities involved with public administration and the enforcement of the law in a manner which is consistent with their roles as public representatives and legislators.
4. (i) Members must base their conduct on a consideration of the public interest and are individually responsible for preventing conflicts of interest.

Yup, I think Ferris broke every one of those and I hope he will be held accountable for it.

FTA69

FTA69 wrote: »

Excellent news, they should have been released in 1998 as the were qualifying prisoners under the GFA. Hopefully they can now get on with their lives.

This must be a wind up. Come on.

I can understand even some terrorist like Martin Ferris trying to excuse their actions or explain away their release, after all it is to be expected from the likes of him.

But even he doesn't go so far as to express glee over it. I have no doubt he is as happy as the day he laughed at the 'Orangies' 'squealing' as they burned at Le Mons, granted, but on interviews today he is being sombre. Perhaps, unlike this poster, he is at least pretending to respect the widow of the deceased.

josofly

Did ye hear the reporter on the 1 o clock news describe how the van carrying Ferris and the 2 so and sos left the main road and parked under a railway bridge, allowing the 2 boys to get out and into a car parked the far side of the bridge . The van then continued to block the road stopping the reporters and Gardai from following the car

Real TV stuff alright. The guards should have had the helicopter there to follow them just out of spite.

Agree with earlier posters Ferris is not fit to occupy Dail Eireann and I am ashamed of being a citizen of the country that elects his ilk

WillieCocker

bmm wrote: »

Unfortunately Det. Gerry McCabe's widow Anne will never be able to get on with her life.

She has more grace & honesty than any of those scumbags would ever have in a lifetime.
She has already said upon their release "I can finally have closure now that justice has been served"
Not even a hint of injustice in her words.

bernardo mac

Or get back Aft69to ruining more people's lives

Even hardline Shinners must be mortified at Ferris.

Though bet none would say it to his face.

Wonder did he do this with the approval of the party, or is it so much in fear of his connections that he does what he likes now.

marco murphy

Deleted User wrote: »

Even hardline Shinners must be mortified at Ferris.

Though bet none would say it to his face.

Wonder did he do this with the approval of the party, or is it so much in fear of his connections that he does what he likes now.

Why would they be? He is entitled to pick the men up and no one has any problem with it. They're are people making a football out of it. Pfft :rolleyes:

the_syco

FTA69 wrote: »

Excellent news, they should have been released in 1998 as the were qualifying prisoners under the GFA. Hopefully they can now get on with their lives.

How the f**k could walking up to a Garda in Limerick with an AK47 and shooting him fall under the GFA? No-one has ever explained that one to me. Ever.

Liam Byrne

Perestroika wrote: »

They're are people making a football out of it. Pfft :rolleyes:

There probably are. However people are equally entitled to express their distaste, and while I am annoyed that they "got away" with the manslaughter charge (and the fact that apparently the guys who actually pulled the trigger have never been caught or charged) I did say that they've done the time.

So what's most sickening to me is people saying that it's "excellent news", or Adams creating his very own "football" by trying to claim that they shouldn't have even served this long.

But having an elected representative being photographed with criminals in what has to be the loosest version of a "jail" I've ever heard of, and then calling to pick them up is also sickening.

SF should be distancing themselves from criminals if they want to be accepted; not emphasising the connections.

Perestroika

Perestroika wrote: »

He is entitled to pick the men up and no one has any problem with it. They're are people making a football out of it. Pfft :rolleyes:

Ummmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm.

You don;t seem to have thought of the obvious corollary. They can get released from prison and noone would have as big a problem with it. However, there are people like Martin Ferris making a football out of it. To appeal to those who vote terrorism and thuggery? To his colleagues on the IRA Army Council? To remind the other Shinners who his associates are and who has the muscle on his side? Pfft :rolleyes:

Dannyboy83

One more reason why 'Themselves' will never get a vote from me.
Scum.

donaghs

FTA69 wrote: »

Excellent news, they should have been released in 1998 as the were qualifying prisoners under the GFA. Hopefully they can now get on with their lives.

What do you reckon they have planned? A web 2.0 startup? A new innovation to pitch to dragons den? A new range of funky organic food products aimed at the new discerning consumer?

Lets have a look, Pearse McAuley: escaped from Brixton Prison, 1991. Shot dead garda and attempted murder of another during post office robbery in Limerick, 1996. Jailed 1999, released 2009. Wanted in Britain on charges of conspiring to murder former brewery chairman Sir Charles Tidbury and to cause explosions in Britain in November 1990. etc. Seems like a real gent.

FTA69

Deleted User wrote: »

This must be a wind up. Come on.

Of course it isn't. The men were eligible prisoners for release under the terms of the GFA.

But even he doesn't go so far as to express glee over it. I have no doubt he is as happy as the day he laughed at the 'Orangies' 'squealing' as they burned at Le Mons,

A bit of advice, don't accept everything written by a raging alcoholic from Kerry (who killed three people himself) as gospel.

Perhaps, unlike this poster, he is at least pretending to respect the widow of the deceased.

I have every sympathy in the world for someone who lost a spouse, but to be honest there were 4,000 odd other families as well who had to see prisoners being released (or in the case of the Brits never even charged in the first place.)

oscarBravo

FTA69 wrote: »

Of course it isn't. The men were eligible prisoners for release under the terms of the GFA.

I guess you'd know better than the Supreme Court.

Liam Byrne

FTA69 wrote: »

Of course it isn't. The men were eligible prisoners for release under the terms of the GFA.

Thanks to oscarbravo for quoting this post, because otherwise I'd have missed it after adding the person responsible for the earlier, sickening, "Excellent News" bull**** to the very useful "ignore list" here on boards.

That individual has now gone from cheering on criminals, to repeating the lie that they were eligible.

I know this is cross-posting, as I posted it in another thread related to this, but it needs to be said in order to counteract lies and propaganda.

I won't re-post the entire thing, but I'll re-issue the direct relevant quote from our Minister for Justice:

If the prisoners had qualified under the terms of the Agreement, they would not still be in jail.

FTA69

FTA69 wrote: »

Of course it isn't. The men were eligible prisoners for release under the terms of the GFA.

Oh yes, and because they were eligible for release from the penal system that makes everything fine? Next time a paedophile gets out you'll say 'folks, build a bridge and get over the buggering kids bit, he's done his time, leave him alone'?

FTA69 wrote: »

a raging alcoholic from Kerry

I wonder did he ever sit into his car after a visit to the pub?

FTA69 wrote: »

to be honest there were 4,000 odd other families as well who had to see prisoners being released

Your stats are, I suspect, completely wrong. I'm not sure that the perpetrator of every killing in the North over the past 40 years was still in prison. I understood that a few hundred, mostly Shinners/Ira, were released, though I completely accept some of them were mutliple murderers.

Either way, you might also clarify how many politicians in our Dail thought it was appropriate to meet and greet these killers on their release?

Mad Finn

prinz wrote: »

Yup, I think Ferris broke every one of those and I hope he will be held accountable for it.

In North Kerry? You're joking. I mean the Ballyseedy massacre was only 86 years ago. You can't expect people in a peasant society like Tralee and its environs to move on that quickly.

Yeah, OK. I'm still bitter about Croker on Monday, but hey, that was only three days ago.

waryeye

I wasn't in the least bit surprised to see Martin Ferris picking up the three released prisoners. What intrigues me is why the media photographers were thare at 6.45 in the morning to highlight the fact?

Another reason to rehash the killing of Gerry McCabe, show the photographs of the scene etc etc.
Just another opportunist bashing of the wider Republican movement.

Anyone who bothers to investigate these matters knows IRA personnel were forbidden to kill Gardai or Irish defence force personnel.
The killing was wrong and condemned by Sinn Fein. At the time and since then.

But Martin Ferris is a lifelong Republican who fought and served time for the things he believed in himself. That's why the good people of North Kerry see fit to return him to the Dail.
They know he is a decent man. A man who stuck to his principles, come hell or high water.

A lot of you indignant contributors can't hide your loathing for those who put their lives at risk, and many who died, for what they believed in. Yet the majority of the Northern nationalists, the people who endured the conflict in the six counties vote for Sinn Fein.
Fact.

Like they voted in Fermanagh/South Tyrone for Bobby Sands.
It's easy for all you in comfortable perches to sit in judgement on the motivations of those involved in the Northern conflict.
There were brave people on all sides of it. There's nothing simple about it.
And it wasn't only Gerry McCabe who died for what he believed in.
And as such, to magnify his death over any of the others in the way it has been hijaced by the media and their cohorts in the south is nauseating to me and many others.
And opportunistic

prinz

Mad Finn wrote: »

In North Kerry? You're joking.

In the Dáil.

oscarBravo

waryeye wrote: »

A lot of you indignant contributors can't hide your loathing for those who put their lives at risk, and many who died, for what they believed in.

My feelings towards people who put their lives at risk for what they believe in tends to depend on whether it's something I believe in also.

My loathing is particularly reserved for people who are prepared to murder for what they believe in, and for those who condone - tacitly or explicitly - their murderous actions.

prinz

waryeye wrote: »

I wasn't in the least bit surprised to see Martin Ferris picking up the three released prisoners. What intrigues me is why the media photographers were thare at 6.45 in the morning to highlight the fact?

Yeah God forbid the public has a right to know than an elected representative in the national legislature picks up a couple of murdering scumbags.

waryeye wrote: »

Another reason to rehash the killing of Gerry McCabe, show the photographs of the scene etc etc.
Just another opportunist bashing of the wider Republican movement.

(a) It's Jerry and (b) opportunism like ambushing two men doing their job?

waryeye wrote: »

Anyone who bothers to investigate these matters knows IRA personnel were forbidden to kill Gardai or Irish defence force personnel.

Would you care to show us any evidence of this? From what I recall the Gardaí and Defence Forces were singled out as agents of the Free State, collaborating in the partition of Ireland and therfore legitimate targets..

waryeye wrote: »

A lot of you indignant contributors can't hide your loathing for those who put their lives at risk, and many who died, for what they believed in.

What about Omagh, what about Jean McConville, Warrington.... they did die for something they believed in?

waryeye wrote: »

There were brave people on all sides of it.

So you acknowledge the bravery of Captain Nairac I presume?

waryeye wrote: »

There's nothing simple about it.
And it wasn't only Gerry McCabe who died for what he believed in.
And as such, to magnify his death over any of the others in the way it has been hijaced by the media and their cohorts in the south is nauseating to me and many others.
And opportunistic

Don't you mean the Republic? This is a different country pal. We're entitled to expose murdering scum and their politician friends any way we see fit.

Liam Byrne

waryeye wrote: »

I wasn't in the least bit surprised to see Martin Ferris picking up the three released prisoners. What intrigues me is why the media photographers were thare at 6.45 in the morning to highlight the fact?

Maybe they were just there as "individuals", too ?

According to you, Ferris can be where he likes, but now photographers' can't ? Give me a break! :rolleyes:

waryeye wrote: »

Anyone who bothers to investigate these matters knows IRA personnel were forbidden to kill Gardai or Irish defence force personnel.
The killing was wrong and condemned by Sinn Fein. At the time and since then.

But Martin Ferris is a lifelong Republican who fought and served time for the things he believed in himself. That's why the good people of North Kerry see fit to return him to the Dail.
They know he is a decent man. A man who stuck to his principles, come hell or high water.

You're confusing me. If the killing was wrong and condemned by SF, and Martin Ferris sticks to his principles, why was he collecting people who "were forbidden to kill Gardai", but went ahead and did that ?

Oh, for the record - EVERYONE'S forbidden to kill Gardai.

waryeye wrote: »

A lot of you indignant contributors can't hide your loathing for those who put their lives at risk, and many who died, for what they believed in. Yet the majority of the Northern nationalists, the people who endured the conflict in the six counties vote for Sinn Fein.
Fact.

Fair play to anyone who "puts their lives at risk or dies for what they believe in". Those who flew planes into the twin towers did just this.

I'll respect that.

I won't be forced to respect or given lectures about beliefs and nobility by people who decide to take others with them. Those who flew planes into the twin towers did just this, too, so any respect I had for them is out the window.

Plus the scum that shot McCabe didn't "die for what they believe in"; they shot him in a cowardly way and ran away like cowards, two of them still on the run.

So almost your entire post was irrelevant.

waryeye wrote: »

And it wasn't only Gerry McCabe who died for what he believed in.

What ? What does "what he believed in" have to do with anything ? He was doing his job. I've no idea what he believed in.

He didn't "die for what he believed in". And he wasn't given much of a choice about it; he was murdered.

Again, people can choose to "die for what they believe in" all they like - just don't make the decision for someone else and take them with you.

waryeye wrote: »

And opportunistic

About as opportunistic as running around with AK-47s and shooting people in the back before they get their gun to give you a fight back, maybe ? :rolleyes:

waryeye

Oscar Bravo you seem to want to reduce the whole Norhern conflict to a bunch of `murderers' going around creating mayhem for no reason. That's totally simplistic and totally wrong. The whole community was convulsed in a situation involving institutionalised sectarianism, gerrymandering, lack of civil rights. That's what started the violent troubles in the north. Fact.

Again. There were brave people involved on all sides. Some misguided and no doubt, some psychopaths too.
It was the most natural thing in the world for someone from a Unionist backround to join the UDR, the RUC. Although both organisations were widely reviled by the Nationalist communtity and regarded by many as sectarian in their actions.
It was understandable that some people would drift in to loyalist organisations, as some perceived their `community' being under attack.

And it was also wholly understandable why large numbers of young men and women ended up joining the IRA, in many cases they saw it as defending/fighting for their own community.
Just as it was natural for Gerry McCabe to join the Gardai and become a detective etc.

Stop reducing these matters to simplicities. It's a complex picture and it seems to me that you and others prefer to reduce it to a neat simple package.

oscarBravo

waryeye wrote: »

Stop reducing these matters to simplicities. It's a complex picture and it seems to me that you and others prefer to reduce it to a neat simple package.

Det Gda Jerry McCabe was shot in the back in cold blood. An elected representative met his murderers as they left prison.

Maybe these things have made life better for the poor oppressed nationalists in Northern Ireland. I kinda doubt it.

You can dress it up in as much Republican rhetoric as you like - to right-thinking people, murdering police officers is just plain wrong, and an elected representative escorting his murderers from prison is also just plain wrong.

WillieCocker

waryeye wrote: »

Oscar Bravo you seem to want to reduce the whole Norhern conflict to a bunch of `murderers' going around creating mayhem for no reason. That's totally simplistic and totally wrong. The whole community was convulsed in a situation involving institutionalised sectarianism, gerrymandering, lack of civil rights. That's what started the violent troubles in the north. Fact.

Again. There were brave people involved on all sides. Some misguided and no doubt, some psychopaths too.
It was the most natural thing in the world for someone from a Unionist backround to join the UDR, the RUC. Although both organisations were widely reviled by the Nationalist communtity and regarded by many as sectarian in their actions.
It was understandable that some people would drift in to loyalist organisations, as some perceived their `community' being under attack.

And it was also wholly understandable why large numbers of young men and women ended up joining the IRA, in many cases they saw it as defending/fighting for their own community.
Just as it was natural for Gerry McCabe to join the Gardai and become a detective etc.

Stop reducing these matters to simplicities. It's a complex picture and it seems to me that you and others prefer to reduce it to a neat simple package.

Nothing to do with Hatred then no?.
What about Jean McConville who helped an injured British soldier, who was later kidnapped and never found again.

Liam Byrne

I'll tentatively agree with that last post by waryeye, but it then begs the question :

WHAT do the supposed actions of "individuals" [ who just happen to be SF / IRA members acting on their own bat ] have IN ANY WAY to do with that post ? Why is it even in this thread ?

If - God forbid - any member of my family or friends murdered someone in cold blood, unprovoked and on their own decision, then I - as a man of principle [ as waryeye is trying to portray Ferris ] would not only disown them, but I'd also be even more pissed off with them for casting a slur across my family name.

So I wouldn't go visit them, wouldn't plaster a photo of me with them all over some rag, wouldn't collect them from prison, and wouldn't have anything more to do with them.

waryeye

waryeye wrote: »

Stop reducing these matters to simplicities. It's a complex picture and it seems to me that you and others prefer to reduce it to a neat simple package.

:D

A bit of levity.

Folks, stop reducing it to simple stuff, like wrestling with concepts of right and wrong, crime and punishment, forgiveness, charity and Christianity, turning the other cheek, the interaction between representatives and those who have sinned etc. etc.

It's much more complex. Waryeye says Ferris is a good and decent man. There you go.

waryeye

Printz my point about the photographers still stands? Who alerted them to the three prisoners leaving at 6.45 in the morning? Strikes me that it was an opportunity too good to be missed to rake up the whole issue again . . fill newspaper space and reduce the greater issue to banal simplicities.

If you knew anything about the IRA or its history you would know that the official `Green Book' given to volunteers included a section forbidding taking armed action against Gardai/Defence forces in the south. I choose the word south because I don't consider southern Ireland `The Republic'. That's my choice and I'm perfectly entitled to it.

You mention Omagh? Nobody, could deny it was a terrible event. The Real IRA I believe was responsible. But yes, there were atrocities on all sides of the conflict and the IRA was responsible for some of them.

You mention Captain Nairac? Was he brave? I would say he undoubtedly was. And foolish. Anyone standing up in a pub in South Armagh and singing rebel songs in an attempt to pass himself off as a `republican' at that time was very foolish indeed. But brave? yes I'd say so too.

And Liam Byrne, again I would contend it was entirely consistent for Martin Ferris to be there to pick up people from prison who he regarded and regards as comrades. He's never said anything to the contrary, as far as I know!

Liam Byrne

waryeye wrote: »

And Liam Byrne, again I would contend it was entirely consistent for Martin Ferris to be there to pick up people from prison who he regarded and regards as comrades. He's never said anything to the contrary, as far as I know!

"comrades" - i.e. "friends with common goals and interests" ?

And my point was WHY he still regards them as such, considering their sickening actions [ which you propose are completely at odds with his own and his organisations, and has dragged his organisation into disrepute ]

Like I said - and "family" is a step above "comrades" - I'd immediately disown anyone who riddled a Garda with bullets for no reason, leaving him dead.

If Ferris does still view them as "comrades", then fair enough - his choice; but it shows that his moral code and beliefs are COMPLETELY different to mine, along with his ethics and pure contempt for law and order.

So he's entitled to do whatever the f**k he likes, but - and especially as a TD - he's going to be judged on it.

And he's lost - big-time.

prinz

waryeye wrote: »

Printz my point about the photographers still stands? Who alerted them to the three prisoners leaving at 6.45 in the morning? Strikes me that it was an opportunity too good to be missed to rake up the whole issue again . . fill newspaper space and reduce the greater issue to banal simplicities.

An opportunity to show a fool like Ferris for what he really is you mean? All this talk of look to the future, Sinn Féin - the viable alternative, the inclusive party etc etc. Prats. They can distance themselves and condemn all they want - but the the end of the day, there he was a Sinn Féin TD greeting two convicted Garda killers.

waryeye wrote: »

If you knew anything about the IRA or its history you would know that the official `Green Book' given to volunteers included a section forbidding taking armed action against Gardai/Defence forces in the south.

So why was Jerry McCabe murdered? There was no attempt to rob the van. They got out, riddled the two gardaí and left the scene... Should we not expect some punishment from the IRA for this?

waryeye wrote: »

I choose the word south because I don't consider southern Ireland `The Republic'. That's my choice and I'm perfectly entitled to it.

:pac: Right ok... Enough said really.

waryeye wrote: »

And Liam Byrne, again I would contend it was entirely consistent for Martin Ferris to be there to pick up people from prison who he regarded and regards as comrades. He's never said anything to the contrary, as far as I know!

You're perfectly correct, consistent in being a worthless waste of space.

waryeye

Willie Cocker of course hatred was involved, on all sides. IRA, UDR, British Army, RUC, Loyalists. That's a petty point, never denied hatred was a factor i such a conflict? As it inevitably is.

And Conor74 I'm not trying to avoid any debate about right or wrong, crime or punishment or turning the other cheek. I'd welcome it. But I do object when some people try to cast others and their views in the role of `scum' or demonise them. I said Martin Ferris is considered a decent man by the people of North Kerry. I stand over that. Why do they vote for him regularly otherwise?
And the people of Munser almost put his daughter in the European Parliament.
In your eyes I suppose they are all `scum' too because they happen to disagree with you.

I said earlier that most people, including Sinn Fein, and the vast majority of Republicans profoundly disagreed with the killing of Jerry McCabe. And that too still stands.

But Ferris was never going to turn his back on people he considered comrades. End of story.

WillieCocker

waryeye wrote: »

Willie Cocker of course hatred was involved, on all sides. IRA, UDR, British Army, RUC, Loyalists. That's a petty point, never denied hatred was a factor i such a conflict? As it inevitably is.

Gerry , your avoiding the question.:)..... what about Jean Mc Conville.....coincidence no doubt?
The IRA wouldn't just kill an innocent woman for helping a young british soldier?

waryeye

waryeye wrote: »

I said Martin Ferris is considered a decent man by the people of North Kerry. I stand over that. Why do they vote for him regularly otherwise?

And by that yardstick, other elected representatives from Charlie Haughey to Benjamin Netanyahu were good and decent men.

Well someone elected them regularly, didn't they?

waryeye wrote: »

In your eyes I suppose they are all `scum' too because they happen to disagree with you.

Ah now, please don't put words in my mouth. I wouldn't say all those who voted for your one with the legs were scum at all. I certainly think Martin Ferris himself is, but then again he runs guns, he counts killers as his friends...come on...he's ticking a lot of boxes!

waryeye

Yes Liam Byrne let the people of North Kerry judge him in the next election. He has made no secret of his support for those prisoners and I don't think one clued-in political person in North Kerry was surprised he was outside to greet them. He has publicly campaigned and spoken for their right to be released earlier in the Dail.

All this mock-horror at his being outside the prison?

I know it's not going to change you, or people like you, in their view of Martin Ferris. But I'd be pretty confident it won't change the opinions of those who voted for him in North Kerry either.
An entirely inconvenient suggestion for you perhaps? But there you go.

And before you think I'm suggesting that all his voters àgree with the killing of Jerry McCabe I have no doubt they do not!!
But when they vote they are not voting on the `Jerry McCabe controversy alone. They see the bigger picture here.

prinz

waryeye wrote: »

I know it's not going to change you, or people like you, in their view of Martin Ferris. But I'd be pretty confident it won't change the opinions of those who voted for him in North Kerry either.

If you read the threads on this, you may see quite a number of posters who have previously or have considered voting Sinn Féin change their stance on the party in the light of Ferrets actions.

oscarBravo

waryeye wrote: »

All this mock-horror at his being outside the prison?

Who says it's mock horror? I am horrified that a member of the Oireachtas would greet the killers of a member of our police force in this way.

I'm not even a little bit surprised, but I'm horrified nonetheless.

Erin Go Brath

Het-Field wrote: »

http://www.irishtimes.com/newspaper/breaking/2009/0805/breaking14.htm

The killers of Garda Gerry McCabe in Limerick (1996) have been released from prison after serving 10 years.

No doubt Toireasa Ferris will seek to have Kerry County Council make them freemen of Kerry.

I doubt very much Toireasa will seek to have them made freemen of Kerry. What a ridiculous suggestion and therefore what a ridiculous thread.

waryeye

Willie Cocker I answered what I took to be your main point, on hatred etc. So now you want to indulge in a bit of `'whataboutery' ? Fair enough I guess.

What about Jean McConville? If she was killed by the IRA for tending to a dying British soldier well that is to be roundly condemned.
Some say it was for other reasons . . . I don't know the truth of the matter. Maybe you do?

But do you want to say what about the lack of civil rights? Gerrymandering? Internment? Bloody Sunday. Shoot to kill by the RUC/British Army? On the other side what about La Mon? Enniskillen? Bloody Friday in Belfast. About defending Nationalist enclaves from loyalist murder gangs? I think you can see where whataboutery leads us? Nowhere. The war is over. Let it go.

And Conor74 you mention Haughey and Netanyahu? Well the fact that 40 per cent of the people ie Fianna Fail voters, regularly voted for Haughey, who I always considerd a scoundrel, indicates plenty of people regarded him as decent. No doubt some of them, deluded as they are, still do now.
And Netanyahu, as Prime Minister of Israel, no doubt has his fans too.

I wouldn't be one of them.
But glad to see we agree on something!:)

oscarBravo

waryeye wrote: »

Well the fact that 40 per cent of the people ie Fianna Fail voters, regularly voted for Haughey, who I always considerd a scoundrel, indicates plenty of people regarded him as decent. No doubt some of them, deluded as they are, still do now.
And Netanyahu, as Prime Minister of Israel, no doubt has his fans too.

So you accept that merely being electable doesn't make someone a decent person?

I don't agree that sticking to your principles is necessarily much of an indicator, either: Liam Lawlor was prepared to do jail time for his. Does that make him a good person?