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Decline of Respect/Morals in Society?
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Couldn't think of a better title.
So me and my dad were talking today about this lad who threw bleach into the face of a woman who had told him and his fellow scum to be quiet during Harry Potter.. fair do's, it might have been a bit irritating, but what's wrong with just rolling your eyes at her.. but fúcking burning them?!
Dad was saying 'back in the day' people sorted out their problems through a fight - just a normal fist fight, none of this knife shiit. A few punches, that was it. Now these morons make it a mission to 'slash' anyone who they don't like.
Years ago so I'm told, a murder would be massive news - nowadays, at least one a day is almost expected.
Why is it now that people are generally more violent, lacking in morals and so completed detached from normality? If it was upbringing, wouldn't their parents have recieved the same upbringing, and been just as bad... why has society been corrupted so much that death is nothing surprising to most people, and commonplace in cities?
What's changed?
Americans are pretty much in charge.0 -
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That study makes no correllation between rates of crime in a country and religious belief amongst the population from what I can see.
I never said it did, I'm refuting the notion that Sweden has a low violent crime rate which another user posted. Keep up
My opinion on why violent crime has increased in the UK is merely a theory which has been discussed by conservative commentators (such as Peter Hitchens) there as well.
The OP asked, why are people generally more violent, and lacking in morality. He also wondered what has changed.
My take is that Britain itself has changed:
They are more violent because life isn't valued as much as it used to be in Britain, which is true.
They are lacking in morals due to the rejection of the former system of morality in favour of a subjective means of personal morality influenced by the postmodern idea that there are no absolutes leading to a lack of clarity.
I said clearly that it was opening a can of worms, and indeed it did as I expected 0 -
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I never said it did, I'm refuting the notion that Sweden has a low violent crime rate which another user posted. Keep up
My opinion on why violent crime has increased in the UK is merely a theory which has been discussed by conservative commentators there as well.
The OP asked, why are people generally more violent, and lacking in morality. My take is:
They are more violent because life isn't valued as much as it used to be in Britain, which is true.
They are lacking in morals due to the rejection of the former system of morality in favour of a subjective means of personal morality influenced by the postmodern idea that there are no absolutes leading to a lack of clarity.
I said clearly that it was opening a can of worms, and indeed it did as I expected
Your original posts put forward the position that cultures/countries become more violent as the culture/members of the population become less religious. To support this position you put forward the names of a few countries which are generally thought of to be athiest countries and stated they have violent crime rates, citing the study I quoted as an example. I don't debate the figures of the study (although I do find them dubious personally), what I don't understand is the jump from a rejection of a former system of morals necessarily being a rejection of religion, as religion is not the only source or inspiration of morality in a culture.
Arguing that the rejection of a former moral system and life isn't as valued as it formerly was is an interesting position, but I think it is jumping the gun a bit and putting the cart before the horse to say it all boils down to the decline of religion.0 -
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Your original posts put forward the position that cultures/countries become me violent as the culture/members of the population become less religious.
It's not even that. It's more based on a buffer period where one morality has been rejected and people are trying to find a non-religious set of morals that are as effective as the former religious ones.To support this position you put forward the names of a few countries which are generally thought of to be athiest countries and stated they have violent crime rates, citing the study I quoted as an example.
I don't consider them "atheist" countries. Rather countries that have gotten more violent as more people have rejected the former Christianity of their respective nations. I personally wouldn't consider Britain an atheist nation, but a nation that is forgetting it's former Christian values.I don't debate the figures of the study (although I do find them dubious personally), what I don't understand is the jump from a rejection of a former system of morals necessarily being a rejection of religion, as religion is not the only source or inspiration of morality in a culture.
A rejection of a system of ethics is surely going to lead to confusion? At least I would have thought that it is somewhat reasonable.
I never said that religion was the only source of morality, but that it is generally more coherent than values based on subjectivism and postmodernism.
I find it funny because atheists usually argue that Christianity was merely contrived as a means of controlling people and keeping them good (which isn't really accurate), and yet when I argue this it's straight on the defence for many :pac:Arguing that the rejection of a former moral system and life isn't as valued as it formerly was is an interesting position, but I think it is jumping the gun a bit and putting the cart before the horse to say it all boils down to the decline of religion.
I don't claim my position as fact, but as a theory of mine. It also served the purpose of sparking discussion 0 -
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It's not even that. It's more based on a buffer period where one morality has been rejected and people are trying to find a non-religious set of morals that are as effective as the former religious ones.
I don't consider them "atheist" countries. Rather countries that have gotten more violent as more people have rejected the former Christianity of their respective nations. I personally wouldn't consider Britain an atheist nation, but a nation that is forgetting it's former Christian values.
A rejection of a system of ethics is surely going to lead to confusion? At least I would have thought that it is somewhat reasonable.
I never said that religion was the only source of morality, but that it is generally more coherent than values based on subjectivism and postmodernism.
I find it funny because atheists usually argue that Christianity was merely contrived as a means of controlling people and keeping them good (which isn't really accurate), and yet when I argue this it's straight on the defence for many :pac:
I don't claim my position as fact, but as a theory of mine. It also served the purpose of sparking discussion
No problem at all, I agree that your theory is interesting and might hold some merit as the change of the moral standpoint of a culture and the rejection of formerly accepted social norms could lead to a backlash as people rebel against the old morality.
I don't agree about singling out the decline of christianity as the main reason for the rise in violent crime however. What about countries with little or no Christian influence which have a prevailing anti-humanist culture, China for example, or countries like the United States or Brazil which still have a massive christian presence in their culture and influence in terms of morality but is renowned for violent crime/murder?
I'm open to the idea of a change in moral values leading to a rise in crime, but I think that putting it down to the decline in christian belief is a bit far fetched and seems to be getting the issue backwards and looking for reasons why rejecting christianity is bad rather than looking for causes of vthe increase in violent crime. It just seems to me that the position seems to have started with the answer and then looking for the question I'm afraid rather than the other way around0 -
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liah: If radical Islam was the same thing as Christianity in 20th century Europe, I might have been inclined to agree with you
People do make places, but what people believe certainly does impact the environment. I didn't even say that a secular morality system could not work if you read my original post. It's merely the "buffer period" that is involved in which there is confusion. Rather simple I would have thought.0 -
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