Firearms renewal question.

kay 9

In section 4.1 lads in the new firearms renewal application form, it asks to state the maximum number of rounds of ammunition apllied for. I wanted to know what lads with rifles r putting down there, as I have a 223 myself and do a bit of target work at home and lamping and the odd bunny...At the moment I have a limit of I think 100, and would be reat if i could increase to say 500 or there abouts.

thanks lads..

johngalway

Are you "allowed" to do target work at home anymore? I thought it was just "zeroing" and target work to be done at the range?

cavan shooter

For hunting that should be ok going on the information posted by Des Crofton on the NARGC website

Personaly going for 600 cartridges
200 bullets

Sparks

It's probably allright.
Let's wait until the guidelines are signed off on by the Minister before making proclamations, because whatever Des leaks right now, may not be what we all have to work with next week.

Cass

kay 9 wrote: »

..........it asks to state the maximum number of rounds of ammunition apllied for. I wanted to know what lads with rifles r putting down there.........At the moment I have a limit of I think 100, and would be reat if i could increase to say 500.......

Its down to individual choice. Don't look for 500, 600,1000.... if they are going to sit in your safe for months on end. The average price for a box of centrefire bullets (.223 to .308) is about €36 - €40. 500 rounds = 25 boxes = €900 - €1000. I know its no harm to have a small amount put aside for when times are tight but i'm basing my amounts on cost and usage.

Target work for .22lr and shotgun (clays) eats up the ammo but for the big calibres at most i'd fire 20-30 rounds (except competitions) with the 6.5 and .308 and with the 30-06 i'd use 5 maybe 10 on a good day as its for deer hunting only.

Sparks

It's a bit different with .22lr target work as the lads doing international-level training tend to get batch tested ammo, and there you're limited by how much the factory will sell to you. 10,000 is the lowest I've heard of so far, so that's how much you have to ask for unless you have a very helpful firearms dealer to hand. Similarly for air rifle, 500 is the real minimum (that's one tin of pellets) and 5,000 is about as low as a training air rifle shooter should be asking for (that's one sleeve of tins).

moose112

Sorry for hi-jacking the thread, under section 2.3 from what i understand i dont need any referees for my current firearm.

Would I be right??

But I am after buying a new rifle and have my application form filled out for it but have no idea who they want as a referee.

Sparks

We hope you're right moose, and we've been told by the DoJ that that's the case; we've not seen the Commissioner's Guidelines yet and they'll be very influential in this; but the definitive word on this is from your local Superintendent.

moose112

Nice one i met him(super) sat and was telling him about buying a new rifle and if i could send in my application he told me to drop it in when i had it filled in. I might drop into him tomorrow and see who he wants so.

kay 9

johngalway wrote: »

Are you "allowed" to do target work at home anymore? I thought it was just "zeroing" and target work to be done at the range?

Interesting, I never knew that before John, so its a crime to shoot at targets on our own land? Alot of lads around my area are not aware of this and I wasn't until now.
Thanks,,:) Although, I suppose if i was questioned on the subject , I could say it takes a half a day to zero it eh;) Thanks again

pajero2005

kay 9 wrote: »

Interesting, I never knew that before John, so its a crime to shoot at targets on our own land?

When I went for a licence for my first gun (.22lr) The F.O. asked what I planned using it for. I told him vermin and from time to time target's on the farms I have permission to shoot on. He didn't have any problem with that.

Tackleberry.

johngalway wrote: »

Are you "allowed" to do target work at home anymore? I thought it was just "zeroing" and target work to be done at the range?

I know a few lads that spend the day Zeroing in the garden.............yes garda still tweaking....

johngalway

Tackleberry. wrote: »

I know a few lads that spend the day Zeroing in the garden.............yes garda still tweaking....

Lol.

The only reason I commented was I do remember discussion about that topic before, unsure how it turned out in the end but I'd not like to see anyone put something down on official forms that maybe they shouldn't be, you know? Maybe someone can clarify it more.

gofaster_s13

Tackleberry. wrote: »

I know a few lads that spend the day Zeroing in the garden.............yes garda still tweaking....

Neeearly there gaurd, another day or two should just about have it right:D

Sparks

Not "Gaurd", "Firearms Range Inspector".
And we've been told zeroing is okay.
It's just that there's nothing in writing to say that and there's no definition of zeroing anywhere. So if you tick off someone, there's no protection at all.

pajero2005

Originally Posted by Tackleberry.
"I know a few lads that spend the day Zeroing in the garden.............yes garda still tweaking...."



Oh fiddle-sticks, I forgot to take the coriolis effect into account:rolleyes:.

Better start again to be sure:D

johngalway

Someday they'll learn to publish guidelines etc before they spew out forms - with deadlines to meet.

I'm preparing for that day as there's a real danger of dropping dead of shock.

kay 9

Thanks for all the replies lads, it sure is a sticky situation I guess, but I'm gonna keep hitting paper anyway. Besides my scope is always losin "zero"

Cass

Sparks wrote: »

It's a bit different with .22lr target work as the lads doing international-level training tend to get batch tested ammo, and there you're limited by how much the factory will sell to you. 10,000 is the lowest I've heard of so far, so that's how much you have to ask for unless you have a very helpful firearms dealer to hand. Similarly for air rifle, 500 is the real minimum (that's one tin of pellets) and 5,000 is about as low as a training air rifle shooter should be asking for (that's one sleeve of tins).

Was talking to one of those lads. He told me buys 50,000 rounds at a time. He has an arrangement with a friendly dealer who imports them for him then he buys a bit at a time. Thing is he goes over to Eley's factory to batch test the rounds through his rifle. some set up. Anyway i can see how he needs that much and as a profession its necessary. I shoot at most 4,000 (.22) per month. Eley match at €10 per box = ouch to the pocket. But thing is i buy the same each week whether i shoot them or not so as to have plenty in reserve. So i was initially thinking 2,000 -2,500 but thing is i was nervous of putting a huge amount (as i thought) on the application incase in drew unnecessary attention to me, but in the end i need what i need and if they don't approve and grant me half i won't be happy but will have to work around it. As i said before its better then the 500 on my recently expired license.

Cass

kay 9 wrote: »

...... Besides my scope is always losin "zero"

Whats up with that?

clivej

moose112 wrote: »

Sorry for hi-jacking the thread, under section 2.3 from what i understand i dont need any referees for my current firearm.

Would I be right??

But I am after buying a new rifle and have my application form filled out for it but have no idea who they want as a referee.

As it is not stated who is a valid referee on the form I will be using my wife and son. They now know me well enough by now.


As for the ammo limit I will ask for 2000 rounds of 22lr that's only 4 bricks and 1000 (not that I'd be able to afford it) for the other calibres that are used for vermin and target and stalking and target shooting.

fat-tony

Sounds absolutely sensible to me. After all, if the wife and kids don't know that you're safe with a firearm, then who does:)

johngalway

Anytime I had to have a referee for an application they couldn't be related to me. Anyway, I have it in my mind to ask a farmer I shoot for who is extremely happy with the job I do I'm not sure on the second referee as yet, maybe a local business owner to balance it out.

As for the ammo limit, am undecided. I'd be happy enough with 200 for each the .22lr/.223/12ga. Perhaps a little more for the .22 & 12ga if it were possible.

Cass

Never hurts to grease the wheels, a little dropsey, brown envelope, wink wink, nod nod. If that doesn't work ground the young fellow and take away the wives credit card until they sign the referee section.:D

fat-tony

fat-tony wrote: »

Sounds absolutely sensible to me. After all, if the wife and kids don't know that you're safe with a firearm, then who does:)

Its normally the case where your referee's can't be related to you.

Sparks

Doesn't say that on the form, in the SIs or in the Act though zara - the only thing I can see is that the form says no Gardai can be used as referees, which is daft to me because we're all already signed off on by our local Super who ought to have at least checked out our background. And I'm pretty sure there'll be at least one or two people out there who'll have personal security issues with this one.

fat-tony

Deleted User wrote: »

Its normally the case where your referee's can't be related to you.

Yes - that's for all kinds of things to do with money laundering and general "dodgieness" etc., but we've made the point constantly through the FCP that your immediate family are probably the best judges of how stable you might be in owning and handling a firearm. As they are not excluded on the form at the moment, why not use them? The awaited guidelines may say different, though.

clivej

ezridax wrote: »

Never hurts to grease the wheels, a little dropsey, brown envelope, wink wink, nod nod. If that doesn't work ground the young fellow and take away the wives credit card until they sign the referee section.:D

Your wife has a credit card. :eek:

NOT IN THIS HOUSE

fat-tony

clivej wrote: »

Your wife has a credit card. :eek:

NOT IN THIS HOUSE

Now here's a real man:D

Sparks

Sparks wrote: »

Doesn't say that on the form, in the SIs or in the Act though zara - the only thing I can see is that the form says no Gardai can be used as referees, which is daft to me because we're all already signed off on by our local Super who ought to have at least checked out our background. And I'm pretty sure there'll be at least one or two people out there who'll have personal security issues with this one.

true - I'm just saying its normal practice to exclude family members for any kind of reference, so don't be surprised if it turns up on the guidelines!

kay 9

ezridax wrote: »

Whats up with that?

I don't know myself ezridax, but it gives me an extra challenge to actually zero it, so it can take up to a couple of days to sight her in:D I must look into a new piece of kit i guess.. thanks for replies lads:)

kay 9

Lads...I'm just after looking at my gun licence for the 223 and it says in the middle of the page under condition B "The holder of this certificate holds a certificate in respect of another shotgun" I know it aint funny, but to me it sounds like they r calling a 223 a shotgun and I would appreciate any information as to how to ammend this blunder as I dont hold a certificate for a shotgun and never have. It also states under condition C that "The holder being a member of GUN CLUB" ... This isn't true either as i have never been a member of a gun club. Seems i could have some trouble rectifying this one lads, what ye think?
Will appreciate any advice or different opions or ppl with similar problems contributing:) And yes it did take me nearly a whole year to notice these mistakes funnily enough.. I took the boys in blues technical experience for granted maybe.

Yours
Kay....

IRLConor

kay 9 wrote: »

Lads...I'm just after looking at my gun licence for the 223 and it says in the middle of the page under condition B "The holder of this certificate holds a certificate in respect of another shotgun" I know it aint funny, but to me it sounds like they r calling a 223 a shotgun and I would appreciate any information as to how to ammend this blunder as I dont hold a certificate for a shotgun and never have. It also states under condition C that "The holder being a member of GUN CLUB" ... This isn't true either as i have never been a member of a gun club. Seems i could have some trouble rectifying this one lads, what ye think?
Will appreciate any advice or different opions or ppl with similar problems contributing:) And yes it did take me nearly a whole year to notice these mistakes funnily enough.. I took the boys in blues technical experience for granted maybe.

Yours
Kay....

Short answer: they all look roughly like that.

Long answer:

Here's a photo of an old firearm certificate of mine:



The red, green and blue segments define what conditions A, B and C are, the yellow segment shows what conditions apply and the orange segment defines the ammunition limits.

If you had a shotgun for clays and then got another shotgun for vermin control on your farm, the cert for the second shotgun would say something like "Subject to conditions B & C listed below" in the yellow area.

The cert is a mess, I only hope that the new version makes fewer mistakes.

kay 9

Yeah agree, what a mess...
Thanks for the heads up on that though Irl...appreciate it. Thought I had a bit of a problem with it but it looks ok then:)

burke08

hi all,
im applying for first lisence. o/u shotgun. planing to shot clays and vermin the odd day.

how many rounds do yous think i should apply for??

thanks in advance

Cass

Originally posted by burke08

how many rounds do yous think i should apply for??

Depends on how much shooting you intend to do. 250 would be enough if you are doing the odd weekend of clays and a bit of vermin shooting in between. 500 if you want to go more into the clays. It gives you a good stock of clay cartridges and a few boxes of game ones. Have a think before you fill in the application as you can't change it later (well not for a while)

burke08

thanks ezridax.

I wasent sure if they would allow me that may rounds as it my first lisence and im only 17.

Think ill go for 400 as i already do quite a bit of clay shooting with my uncle.

thanks again.

pedroeibar

Hi,
I’ve been a lurker for ages and despite reading many posts am only now getting the sense of the renewals. Started on the FCA1’s and ran into a problem.
One of my guns is a Marlin 65, a semi-auto rimfire with a tube mag holding 18 rounds. On my current licence it is described as a “bolt rifle” (original form was completed by a FO):rolleyes:
In Section 3 of the new Act we have:
[FONT=&quot]“semi-automatic firearms” means firearms that reload automatically from a[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]magazine or cylinder each time a round is discharged but can fire not more than[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]one round with a single pull on the trigger;[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot] [/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]Then, in [/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]Section 4. (1) Firearms other than those to which subparagraph (2) relates are[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]declared to be restricted firearms for the purposes of the Act:[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot] [/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]so in that subparagraph we read:[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]4. (2) (c) (ii) single-shot, repeating or semi-automatic rim-fire firearms[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]designed to fire rim-fire percussion ammunition and with a magazine[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]having a capacity of not more than 10 rounds,[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot] [/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]from which I infer the Marlin is restricted (because it holds 18 rounds) [/FONT]
[FONT=&quot] [/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]BUT, in Section[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot] [/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]4. (2) (e) (ii) the following short firearms designed for use in connection with competitions[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]governed by International Olympic Committee regulations:[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot](ii) firearms using .22 inch rim-fire percussion ammunition[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot] [/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]I know nothing about IOC regs., are there any grounds on which I can argue the Marlin fits the last category?[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]Do I say nothing and fill new FCA1 describing gun as “bolt action? [/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]Views?[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot] [/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]Thanks,[/FONT]
P.
[FONT=&quot][/FONT]
[FONT=&quot] [/FONT]
[FONT=&quot] [/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]I also guess that the pistol-grip reference on the shotgun would refer to a stockless gun, rather than one with a pistol grip stock. [/FONT]

Sparks

Sorry Pedro, but no, there's no way the Marlin would be considered an ISSF pistol. However, you can just stick a dowel in the magazine or get it crimped so it won't take more than 10 and then you're good.

rrpc

pedroeibar wrote: »

I know nothing about IOC regs., are there any grounds on which I can argue the Marlin fits the last category?

Do I say nothing and fill new FCA1 describing gun as “bolt action?
Views?

Thanks,
P.

It's not that short is it?

As Sparks said, that section is for pistols. There's been some discussion on here about the very machine you have and the proper way to unrestrict it is to dowel it (¼" dowel should fit in the tube) or crimp it.

You could also licence it as a restricted firearm if you wanted.

I also guess that the pistol-grip reference on the shotgun would refer to a stockless gun, rather than one with a pistol grip stock.

Below is the kind of pistol grip that makes a shottie restricted.

pedroeibar

Sparks wrote: »

Sorry Pedro, but no, there's no way the Marlin would be considered an ISSF pistol. However, you can just stick a dowel in the magazine or get it crimped so it won't take more than 10 and then you're good.

Just shows what blue in the face reading does to you. Missed the word "short." Thanks Sparks, good idea, but the configuration of the tube would not allow for a dowel or crimping.

It's a really crap form, very badly designed (e.g "Have you ever been found guilty etc of any offence etc " technically any speeding ticket, illegal parking, etc, should be declared -why did the stupid clerks not include the word "criminal"???) - I'm dreading the whole process, I've moved around quite a bit as I lived/worked overseas and have had about 10 addresses in as many years .....Section 2.1 's concluding question could really screw things up if I'm too honest, would take them years to check me out!
Rs
P.

ranger4

I intend to shoot f-class and was wondering how many rounds to apply for on application, thanks.

Sparks

As many as you'll need ranger.
If you don't know how many that is, talk to some f-class shooters who are shooting at just above your level in competition.
But it really does tend to be a piece of string question because it depends on how much you'll train, how often, and a dozen other factors you didn't mention.

Grizzly 45

On the description of the form a box for "breech loader".
Well all modern firearms that we use[,bar BP muzzle loaders& Xbows andpaint ball]] load at the breech.So what exactly was the "thinking" on this one??:eek:

rrpc

Grizzly 45 wrote: »

On the description of the form a box for "breech loader".
Well all modern firearms that we use[,bar BP muzzle loaders& Xbows andpaint ball]] load at the breech.So what exactly was the "thinking" on this one??:eek:

Martini action perhaps?

Sparks

I thought it was more towards break-barrel rifles and the like, but grizzly has a point - not too many firearms these days load the round into the barrel at any point bar the breech.

dimebag249

I've a question about the restricted list, sorry if it's been asked already.

Firearms with tubular magazines can often fire cartridges of varying lengths interchangeably. Some .22 rimfire rifles can fire short, long and long rifle cartridges. Pump action or automatic shotguns can fire anything from 2" to 3.5" shells, depending on the gun. The capacity will be different depending on which length cartridge is used.

How will the authorities decide what the capacity of a firearm is if it can hold only 10 .22lr cartridges, but 12 .22 short cartridges? Same for a shotgun that can hold only 2 3.5" shells in the magazine. If it's licenced as unrestricted, whats to stop a guard from saying that it can hold 3 (or whatever it is) 2" shells, and arresting for an unlicenced unrestricted firearm?

Sorry if my question is pedantic or seems like silly nit-picking, i'm curious as much as anything else.

Sparks

I wouldn't have thought that a .22lr chamber would take a .22short or .22magnum safely myself...

Grizzly 45

No probs with .22 shorts.But wether they would feed well in a .22 semi tube or mag is another question.

Sparks

I wouldn't say no probs grizzly, they're grossly different in size:


There are rifles stamped for use with .22short, .22long and .22lr; but they're not terribly accurate when you load in the .22short; and if you loaded a .22short into a .22lr rifle, the bullet won't engage with the lands as nicely as it should.

It wouldn't explode in your face or anything, but you're not doing a good rifle any favours doing that kind of thing to it.

johngalway

dimebag249 wrote: »

Same for a shotgun that can hold only 2 3.5" shells in the magazine. If it's licenced as unrestricted, whats to stop a guard from saying that it can hold 3 (or whatever it is) 2" shells, and arresting for an unlicenced unrestricted firearm?

Prepare for the worst, hope for the best. Until that's defined and written down someplace I would make sure the gun could only hold two of the least sized carts, that way no jobsworth can do ya for something like that.

I keep referring to the UK, but, there was something there a while back about sub 12ftlbs air rifles. The particular rifle was under the limit using the pellet the shooter was using, anyway there was a "mishap" involving the law. So, they tested the rifle, with a different pellet, and guess what...

:eek:

Some would say they were doing their job within it's limits. Others would say they were being pedantic over enthusiastic jobsworths.

So err on the side of caution until the situation is better defined.