DART+ (DART Expansion)

spillit67

It would be great to get the ROs for both D+ W and SW this year and we should expect that.

I can’t wait for activity around Cross Guns in particular.

SMdPP87

Will Dart+ West see them lay down new track and in some cases new points? Or will the existing track largely remain as is?

L1011

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121599605#Comment_121599605

Largely remain as it is except at Glasnevin Junction where there'll be entirely new track layouts (although some of that may be linked to Metrolink Glasnevin station being built).

Track will likely be relaid through the defunct level crossings, e.g. it has been changed (it is now ballasted, going on Google Earth) at Ratoath Road; and beyond Maynooth there'll need to be changes as there's currently a long siding on where the second track to the depot is required (the points to change to the single track are very close to the station). Without checking the docs I can't remember if there's any lowering under bridges.

But the bulk of the track is fairly newly laid and well maintained, on concrete sleepers and gets ballast replacement/cleaning as required so doesn't need drastic work.

SMdPP87

Looking at google maps, it appears that the second track beyond Maynooth will be a tight squeeze against the boundary walls of some properties.

Also with the double track west of Maynooth, does this mean that they will have two sets of points, both the existing set east of Maynooth and new points to the west? Is there a need for 2 sets?

L1011

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121599655#Comment_121599655

The entire alignment to Mullingar was double track until [some point in the 20th century, I'm not going to check], so it'll fit - track may need to be slewed back towards the side if its too close to the centre. The first impingement going towards Mullingar is actually Kilcock Station which is built on the trackbed.

They may want to keep a full set of points at Maynooth station for flexibility, as well as points before the depot.

cgcsb

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121598634#Comment_121598634

Glasnevin interchange Station will be part of the metrolink scheme not DART+ West so you'll have to wait on a metrolink RO for anything to happen there.

spillit67

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121599704#Comment_121599704

Hopefully happening at the same time.

pk1991

Update on Dart+ SW regarding potential stations at Kylemore and Cabra. See below:

Iarnród Éireann wishes to update you that AtkinsRéalis has been appointed to develop location options and designs for possible new train stations at Cabra and Kylemore in Dublin.

 

The provision of additional stations along the proposed DART+ South West route was a common theme in the feedback received during both non-statutory consultations on the project, and we are delighted that new stations at Kylemore and Cabra are progressing to the next stage of development.

 

AtkinsRéalis will undertake feasibility and option selection studies for new train stations proposed at Cabra and Kylemore in Dublin, to integrate with the capital city’s heavy rail network, including the DART+ South West project. The provision of stations at Cabra and Kylemore is part of the National Transport Authority’s public transport strategy for the Greater Dublin Area.

 

Preferred options are expected to emerge towards the end of 2024. A decision on the progress of these projects will be made by the National Transport Authority and will be subject to funding allocation.

AtkinsRéalis have also been appointed to develop location options and design of a potential new station in Ballysimon, Co. Limerick which was identified by the Limerick Shannon Metropolitan Area Transports Strategy (LSMATS) as a potential location for a new park and ride train station as part of plans to develop a commuter rail service in the Limerick area.

These projects are part of the Irish Government’s strategy to increase the mode (or market) share of public transport, helping to deliver on its Climate Action Plan.

 

Kind regards,

The DART+ South West project team

riddlinrussell

I assume others got this update as well, but recieved the following email regarding Dart+ Southwest:

Iarnród Éireann wishes to update you that AtkinsRéalis has been appointed to develop location options and designs for possible new train stations at Cabra and Kylemore in Dublin.

The provision of additional stations along the proposed DART+ South West route was a common theme in the feedback received during both non-statutory consultations on the project, and we are delighted that new stations at Kylemore and Cabra are progressing to the next stage of development.

AtkinsRéalis will undertake feasibility and option selection studies for new train stations proposed at Cabra and Kylemore in Dublin, to integrate with the capital city’s heavy rail network, including the DART+ South West project. The provision of stations at Cabra and Kylemore is part of the National Transport Authority’s public transport strategy for the Greater Dublin Area.

Preferred options are expected to emerge towards the end of 2024. A decision on the progress of these projects will be made by the National Transport Authority and will be subject to funding allocation.

AtkinsRéalis have also been appointed to develop location options and design of a potential new station in Ballysimon, Co. Limerick which was identified by the Limerick Shannon Metropolitan Area Transports Strategy (LSMATS) as a potential location for a new park and ride train station as part of plans to develop a commuter rail service in the Limerick area.

These projects are part of the Irish Government’s strategy to increase the mode (or market) share of public transport, helping to deliver on its Climate Action Plan.

Kind regards,

The DART+ South West project team

So looks like Kylemore and Cabra will be designed alongside D+ SW. Surely they won't be rolled directly into the application at this stage? Maybe the full plans will just incorporate any required land take etc and the stations get processed in parallel? I can't imagine they would take as long to pass through planning, so construction could probably take place simultaneously.

Interested to see their exact locations.

Brian CivilEng

Good to see these stations are moving along. Feels like there should be another station at Inchicore though, was that mentioned anywhere?

JohnnyChimpo

No, just the Kylemore and Cabra stations. I'd say they were hammered by submissions on those two in particular.

I imagine the Cabra station will be sited on the reserved land adjacent to the new Hamilton Gardens residential development.

LXFlyer

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121699367#Comment_121699367

That’s exactly where it would be located, north of Cabra Road.

Brian CivilEng

Hopefully they can put entrances on both Cabra Rd and Faussagh Rd. Don’t want another Killester station situation.

riddlinrussell

Cabra West will become quite the little transit hub area, with Dart West (And Sligo line connections), Dart SW (And Cork/Limerick/Galway/Waterford Connections) and Green line.

I do wonder where exactly the new Kylemore station will be set out, no matter what it will be in an area simultaneously in need of quad tracking, so space constraints would suggest taking some area from Inchicore Works.

Between Le Fanu and Kylemore road seems a little too close to Park West and maybe a little short for a station? Given the name the opposite side of Kylemore road would probably be the other option, maybe with an exit to Landen Road, but unlikely the Inchicore side would be served, too remote from the main road.

Repo101

Dart + SW currently must be of benefit to the least amount of people. Adamstown, Fonthill, Cherry Orchard and less so Hazlehatch remain largely unused. While I understand there is a need to join up the mainline to Cork with the proposed Metrolink, in reality, the current Cork, Limerick, Galway trains don't serve any of the proposed stations which assumes that the current routes will now serve Heuston West and terminate there instead of the current station. What is the benefit of extending out to Hazlehatch? If they wanted to improve capacity it should have extended to at least Sallins/Newbridge/Kildare whose stations carry far more passengers than the current stations. It seems short sighted but then again I am also conscious that Hazelhatch has the capacity for upgrades without major disruption to current services, something probably not possible further down the line.

LXFlyer

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121704308#Comment_121704308

Heuston West will be a two platform station on the approach to the Phoenix Park Tunnel and will only be served by DART services going to either Docklands or Grand Canal Dock.

The current Heuston station will remain the terminus for all Intercity services and also for some DART services from Hazelhatch (platforms 6-8 will be electrified there as part of DART+ SouthWest).

As for usage, as train frequency builds it is likely that more feeder buses will be added for each station in addition to those that have recently come on stream as part of BusConnects.

I would not be concerned about future usage of the DART stations at all, especially considering the ongoing building developments near Adamstown and Clondalkin/Fonthill. People will switch from the bus service if the rail frequency is there.

blanch152

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121704308#Comment_121704308

It would be simple enough surely for all InterCity services to stop at Hazelhatch to allow for transfer to DART. At Hueston, how long is the transfer to Heuston West, and is it much different to say transferring at King's Cross?

danfrancisco83

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121704463#Comment_121704463

Exactly. It's all about frequency, if people know that the longest they'll have to wait for a train is 15 minutes or so then they will use the train. Currently, from Dunboyne for example, if you just miss a train just after 9am, you will be waiting 35 minutes before the next one.

loyatemu

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121704485#Comment_121704485

you could stop outer suburban services there, but I can't seem them stopping Inter City services to accommodate a small number of passengers looking to go to Dart SW stations. Install a travelator in Heuston to assist people walking up to Heuston West.

loco_scolo

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121704619#Comment_121704619

Fully disagree with this.

Adding a fixed station on the SW line which is served by all intercity trains (HH or Clondalkin for example) would integrate with DartSW including north of the PPT with links to Metro and DartW. It would also link with numerous bus routes including new orbital bus routes.

We're trying to get people out of cars including for intercity travel. Expecting people to travel into Heuston or 100km out to Portlaoise to catch an intercity is not going to encourage people out of cars.

LXFlyer

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121704778#Comment_121704778

You do understand that forcing every train to stop at Hazelhatch would extend Intercity journey times and block up the line causing the number of trains that can be operated to reduce because of it.

No one would be asked to drive to Portlaoise.

They can board the Portlaoise train at Hazelhatch and change at Portlaoise, and by flighting the trains out of Heuston so that the semi-fast Portlaoise runs ahead of the Waterford, Galway and Cork trains you can ensure a short wait at the connecting station (Kildare, Portarlington or Portlaoise) into the relevant Intercity service.

cgcsb

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121704619#Comment_121704619

I think there'd be a great case for providing intercity passengers the option to change to dart and access grand canal dock or spencer dock, anecdotally at least it looks like a minimum of 95% of people exiting Heuston continue their journey eastwards.

LXFlyer

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121705029#Comment_121705029

Heuston and a bus/tram connection is still the better option for anyone going to points west of O’Connell Bridge from a journey time perspective.

The Phoenix Park Tunnel services facilitate anyone going further east of O’Connell Bridge.

From that perspective alone, Heuston probably does still suit an awful lot of people.

Brian CivilEng

Don't underestimate the demand. Despite the overall longer journey time, and the awkwardness involved with tickets I still currently change at Hazelhatch to avoid town when travelling Raheny to Portlaoise. The long walk through Heuston, the uncomfortable trip on a packed Luas then the long walk from Busaras to platform 7 at Connolly are not worth the saving of 15mins or so, especially when travelling with kids. If they don't add a stop at Hazelhatch I can see people on intercity trains changing at Kildare for a stopping train, then again at Hazelhatch for a DART.

loco_scolo

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121704912#Comment_121704912

So travelling from Cork to Dublin Airport will require changing at Portlaoise, taking a commuter to Hazelhatch, then DartSW to Glasnevin, then a Metro to the airport.

Versus an intercity to HH (or Clondalkin with a potential MetroWest stop), a DartSW to Glasnevin then the Metro.

The idea of people needing to switch at Portlaoise, a town 100km outside of Dublin, in order to connect with Dublin's Dart, Bus and Metro network is absolutely insane.

riddlinrussell

Most Intercities stop at one of Sallins or Newbridge, change those stops out for Hazelhatch, with a following stopper train outbound/inbound to the skipped stations from/to Hazelhatch and you can get Dart Interchange relatively easily.

I would say Heuston West being built over the main line at Islandbridge, all trains stopping there before arrival at Heuston (when they are going to be slowing down anyway) would have been the best option (People getting out to go the growing Heuston/Kilmainham area, Dart Transfer, minimum extra time added) would have been best, but that's water under the bridge now.

bk

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121706132#Comment_121706132

I see Glasnevin becoming an extremely popular destination, what with the interchange to Metrolink and onto the airport, Swords, etc. It will likely become one of the busiest stations in the city.

Heuston isn't really a great destination, it just happens to be where people are dumped at the moment, most people continue on to use Luas/Bus from there to complete their journey.

I think it makes perfect sense to have intercity trains stop at one of the DART+ stations to allow interchange before Heuston. If Cork goes to a 30 minute frequency, then you could have every second train drop the Portlaoise stop and replace it with one of the DART+ stations, with no lose in journey time.

Of course, I've also previously discussed the possibility of routing every second Cork train through the PPT over to the Connolly area, with a stop at Glasnevin to allow for a single interchange to the airport.

Consonata

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121706650#Comment_121706650

Glasnevin is one of the more exciting new transport projects incoming. It's going to totally revolutionise transport in the area. The Bernard Shaw may be glad that they moved to their new location, I can only imagine the business they'll be recieving from people coming from the airport.

LXFlyer

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121706551#Comment_121706551

Only at peak time (towards Dublin in the morning and from Dublin in the evening). Off-peak they don't.

There will have to be a complete redraft from scratch of the timetable and stopping patterns when the conversion to DART happens.

cgcsb

I'm now hearing that DART+ SW will not require an oral hearing, perhaps due to relative lack of concerns. DART+ W are expecting to be granted their railway order this month. Separately metrolink hearing will get going on the 19th. We may still see contract awards and some prep works before the end of the year on all 3 rail projects which is massive for Dublin, and Ireland