DART+ (DART Expansion)

LXFlyer

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120332659#Comment_120332659

They’ll be used for longer distance commuter services to the likes of Dundalk, Longford and Portlaoise, which will in some cases release some 29k sets.

Pete_Cavan

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120331839#Comment_120331839

When you say they "cannot charge stationary unless at the charging facility", do you mean that it won't be possible for BEMUs to charge while stationary at stations with OHLE but not additional charging facilities?

Even if the batteries could charge while stopped at every station, it would really limit the usefulness of BEMUs as they probably wouldn't get enough time to charge sufficiently at stations. OHLE does seem like the only real solution, I think some expect BEMUs to do away with the need on most of the network but I don't think that will be the case.

AngryLips

In all the good news about Dart+ Southwest was buried the real news relating to the Dart project: more delays added to the long list of delays with Dart+ West planning decision delayed a further nine months...

https://www.irishtimes.com/ireland/dublin/2023/03/08/celbridge-dart-plan-gets-green-light-to-move-to-planning-application/

VonLuck

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120333438#Comment_120333438

Incredible. What's the reason? It doesn't seem to say in the article.

Hibernicis

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120334066#Comment_120334066

You'd have to assume that this has something to do with it:

https://www.irishtimes.com/ireland/housing-planning/2023/02/09/an-bord-pleanalas-15-person-board-down-to-six-members/

markpb

It's hardly surprising that AbP would become a blocker. Between MetroLink, the several Bus Connects corridors and now two Dart projects, it's an enormous amount of work for an organisation that is struggling politically, incapable of keeping up with the remnants of the SHD system and is facing multiple legal challenges. I'm delighted that the government are finally increasing investment in public transport but their failure to give AbP the tools they need to facilitate that is ridiculous.

GerardKeating

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120332467#Comment_120332467

Once both DART+ South West AND DART+ West are completed, the option will existing for DARTs from both lines to continue to Bray/Greystones.

But with three lines feeding into Connolly/Grand Canel Dock, a good portion of them will not be able to go further.

goingnowhere

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120333350#Comment_120333350

Unless at a dedicated charging facility the BEMU cannot really charge from normal OHLE. There is a stationary current limit to prevent overheating of the OHLE contact wire, known as necking. You can draw down a lot more while moving. There is a specific Amp value in the docs.

* If stationary if you discard the wire overheating issue, then its a additional load on the OHLE not factored into the demand

* If accelerating you can't charge as to do so would potentially overload the substation supply, your train would draw 1.5-2 times normal demand per train.

* If coasting you can draw power at the full rating of the train but this will potentially overload the substation supply as the demand model and design assumed coasting was there.

In above cases above at peak times the section circuit breakers would likely trip out

If braking then you can dump the full regenerative load into the battery (well assuming the battery can cope with that) and anything not sent to the battery goes back into the overhead.

The OHLE spec for DART+ North allows for a thicker contact wire which allows for great current draw

thomasj

The other revelation from that times article

Dart+ South West is one of four proposed new lines, the others being Dart+ Coastal North (to Drogheda), Dart+ Coastal South (to Greystones) and Dart+ West from Heuston Station to the M3 Parkway and Maynooth.

🤦‍♂️

thomasj

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120334626#Comment_120334626

Reading the plans from dart+ west it was only planned for 3 dart+ west to Bray and 3 dart+ southwest to GCD per hour, the rest going to Spencer Dock.

CatInABox

Some people are getting a look at the new trains, including a member of the Dublin Commuter Coalition.

https://twitter.com/Feljin_J/status/1634194726550216707

loyatemu

is that train actually in Dublin? When did it arrive?

p_haugh

That's just a render in the photo

thomasj

He said he wasn't allowed to take photos but he was on a prototype of the DART

spacetweek

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120342734#Comment_120342734

Are you saying the photo of the new DART above is a CGI dropped into a real DART station?

LXFlyer

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120343920#Comment_120343920

Yes they are.

The trains have not been built yet, so it would be a bit tricky to be a real train!

The individual whose tweet was quoted above would have seen a mock-up of a section of a coach that would have been built for evaluation purposes.

prunudo

With renders and cgi being so good these days, they should really be putting a text box with something like 'artist impression' etc. in media presentations. Probably people up and down the country thinking there are already these new trains already in use.

Ps. This isn't just confined to Dart+, you see it in all walks of life these days. Things being labelled as something that its not.

LXFlyer

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120344319#Comment_120344319

Well the person concerned who tweeted that they had seen a "prototype" probably should have been a bit clearer, and not tweeted that picture at all to be honest. They probably would have been better using the term "mock up" as that is exactly what they saw.

prunudo

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120344430#Comment_120344430

I presume the picture came from an official source though. But I agree for the sake of clarity people and groups, whether private or public should be more clear in the content they share.

bk

The design and colour scheme of the “mock up” / render looks fantastic and I hope they go with that. Though I’d be slightly worried about have just one door on the first carriage.

LXFlyer

Just to be clear, lest anyone is still confused.

The picture is just a render that was published when the DART+ order was announced.

The tweeter wasn’t allowed take/post any photos of the physical wooden mock-up that they saw this week up at Inchicore which is being used to evaluate internal layouts.

goingnowhere

The internal mock up was visible to everyone who was at the Inchicore works open day in 2022...

Sam Russell

Why the secrecy?

Surely it is just a train. Did they do this nonsense with the other Dart trains - including the ones that had to be withdrawn.

AngryLips

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120350535#Comment_120350535

Probably because they don't want to rob politicians the opportunity to re-announce something like they so often do.

Sam Russell

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120351086#Comment_120351086

The politicians would not try to steal the glory of a well laid out train, would they?

Pete_Cavan

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120350535#Comment_120350535

Hardly secrecy, the post immediately before yours says that it was visible to everyone who was at the Inchicore works open day in 2022.

I don't think they are looking at the layout, more likely the quality of materials, fixtures and fittings, etc. Most likely it is for technical examination from IÉ staff and not things the public can really have an input on.

goingnowhere

The Inchicore mock up covers two different seat types, different positioning of usb sockets, the bike rack and door area. If you looked around you would see Alstom drawing references.

The drivers cab is the real focus, getting that signed off by safety folks and drivers. The positioning of the controls, screens etc. The DART fleet is actually setup with a German style tram controller, forward to go, back to stop. The Inchicore mock up reflects this, the CGI doesn't...

p_haugh

According to Rail Users Ireland on twitter, the DART+ South West works order is being submitted today!

https://twitter.com/RailUsersIe/status/1638509697408933888?t=sRvq5zPPSKS9VyDMRvf-Ug&s=19

Edit: website is live!

https://www.dartplus.ie/en-ie/railwayorder/dart-south-west-railway-order

AngryLips

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120387420#Comment_120387420

So much for their theory that the order is being delayed for financial reasons - I guess this puts that to bed.

Looking at the plans for Heuston West, I thought the station was going to be under the intersection of Islandbridge rather than the location beside Clancy Quay. I see Irish Rail are going with the horrifically overengineered solution of a 'great metal wall of china' option for accommodating wheelchair users. This will no doubt end up like the stairs at Clontarf station in no time. Why can't they just put an underpass in instead? It turns every new station into an absolute monstrosity and eyesore ...there must be a more elegant solutions than this? Like lifts...

CatInABox

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120388399#Comment_120388399

They don't want the expense of maintaining lifts. It's the only logical reason that explains both their love of these things, and the lack of lifts working.

In more positive news, Cabra and Kylemore stations look like they're going to be progressed at the same time as this, just in a different project.

https://twitter.com/DublinCommuters/status/1638573421201072128