DART+ (DART Expansion)

Lord Glentoran

LXFlyer wrote: »

I think that you may be putting two and two together and making five - I’m not sure any of that is the city centre resignalling.

The NTA are probably doing an exercise to see how far the DART can creak without breaking before funding gets divvied out.

Those private buses won't get timetabled services by themselves!

marno21

Lord Glentoran wrote: »

The NTA are probably doing an exercise to see how far the DART can creak without breaking before funding gets divvied out.

Those private buses won't get timetabled services by themselves!

Is it time we created an NTA conspiracy theories thread ?

citizen6

Is Pelletstown/Royal Canal Park station going to happen? Planning application is in but the station is not included in NTA map for 2027, unlike Heuston West, Cabra and Whitworth Rd.

https://www.nationaltransport.ie/transport-investment/dart-expansion/

https://twitter.com/RCPCA1/status/984774388829564928?s=20

Lord Glentoran

marno21 wrote: »

Is it time we created an NTA conspiracy theories thread ?

Yup! Be interesting to see how theories will be debunked..

CatInABox

citizen6 wrote: »

Is Pelletstown/Royal Canal Park station going to happen? Planning application is in but the station is not included in NTA map for 2027, unlike Heuston West, Cabra and Whitworth Rd.

I'm pretty sure that that map was done up to highlight the Metrolink route through the city centre, and that some Dart Expansion stops were only added so as to highlight the potential for interchange.

I don't think we'll know the full story with the Dart expansion until they release the plans, but I certainly wouldn't be worrying about it based on that map.

jd

CatInABox wrote: »

I'm pretty sure that that map was done up to highlight the Metrolink route through the city centre, and that some Dart Expansion stops were only added so as to highlight the potential for interchange.

As an aside, I presume we can take it that Irish Rail propose to have a station at Cross Guns, whether or not Metrolink connects to it..

marno21

jd wrote: »

As an aside, I presume we can take it that Irish Rail propose to have a station at Cross Guns, whether or not Metrolink connects to it..

I presume the Cross Guns station is being driven by the NTA

SeanW

One question I have (don't know if there is a remedy planned for this) but at Platform 6 in Connolly if there is an 8 car train going Southbound, the layout of the points is such that the train has to be pathed onto the Northbound track from there because there is a switch beside the platform, and the train has to continue on the NB track for some distance to get back onto the left hand side. Naturally this gets in the way of Northbound trains, even those going to P7 have to wait for the P6 > Southbound train to get out of their way. I often see trains standing from Talbot St. Store St. etc and now I know why.

Is this proposed to be fixed? Would this be fixable without adding more track area to the loop line bridge.

dublinman1990

Does anyone know how long the resignalling project will take to get finished at Connolly Station? How are IÉ going to finish the last bit of this project?

Will most of it be done when no trains are running overnight up until the May Bank Holiday Weekend?

LXFlyer

dublinman1990 wrote: »

Does anyone know how long the resignalling project will take to get finished at Connolly Station? How are Igoing to finish the last bit of this project?

Will most of it be done when no trains are running overnight up until the May Bank Holiday Weekend?

It hasn't even started yet.

People are putting carts before horses here.

It (like the rest of the project) will, whenever it starts, mainly be at night, but will require extended engineer's possessions at certain weekends.

A project like this could take up to a year to complete from whenever it might start as the railway has to remain operational.

LXFlyer

SeanW wrote: »

One question I have (don't know if there is a remedy planned for this) but at Platform 6 in Connolly if there is an 8 car train going Southbound, the layout of the points is such that the train has to be pathed onto the Northbound track from there because there is a switch beside the platform, and the train has to continue on the NB track for some distance to get back onto the left hand side. Naturally this gets in the way of Northbound trains, even those going to P7 have to wait for the P6 > Southbound train to get out of their way. I often see trains standing from Talbot St. Store St. etc and now I know why.

Is this proposed to be fixed? Would this be fixable without adding more track area to the loop line bridge.

I would imagine that a redesign of some the track layout would be a critical element of the project in order to minimise conflicts.

jd

marno21 wrote: »

I presume the Cross Guns station is being driven by the NTA

Pardon me, yes, it would be the NTA

Beta Ray Bill

Does anyone know if the parts of the line with the new signals in place are operational yet?

I think I might have seen it in action yesterday

While I wait for the train to go to work, an empty commuter train always goes the other direction (out of town)
Normally the light at the station goes green and the train passes by about 40 seconds to a minute later.
However yesterday the lights went green and then less than 10 secs later the train came into view and passed the station.
Seemed very streamlined so to speak

Could be wrong now....

LXFlyer

grahambo wrote: »

Does anyone know if the parts of the line with the new signals in place are operational yet?

I think I might have seen it in action yesterday

While I wait for the train to go to work, an empty commuter train always goes the other direction (out of town)
Normally the light at the station goes green and the train passes by about 40 seconds to a minute later.
However yesterday the lights went green and then less than 10 secs later the train came into view and passed the station.
Seemed very streamlined so to speak

Could be wrong now....

As has been posted several times, the railway line between Malahide, Howth and Grand Canal Dock has been completely resignalled EXCEPT for Connolly.

The last element to become operational was the loop line between Connolly and Grand Canal Dock in 2016.

BonnieSituation

Nice video of Derby Station resignalling works to give some an idea of what goes on:

https://www.networkrail.co.uk/running-the-railway/our-routes/lne-and-em/midland-main-line-improvement-programme/derby-resignalling-project/

roadmaster

Will the electrification of the maynooth line increase the travel times much compare to now. I had a meeting in blackrock this morning and instead of going down the M50 i parked at clonsilla and got the train down. It took me just over and hour which i felt was a long time, The train just seamed to crawl along and then drumcondra to Connolly you would be quicker walking id say. In fairness when i did switch to the dart in pearse it improved alot.

Sam Russell

roadmaster wrote: »

Will the electrification of the maynooth line increase the travel times much compare to now. I had a meeting in blackrock this morning and instead of going down the M50 i parked at clonsilla and got the train down. It took me just over and hour which i felt was a long time, The train just seamed to crawl along and then drumcondra to Connolly you would be quicker walking id say. In fairness when i did switch to the dart in pearse it improved alot.

Delays on railways are inexcusable. All elements of the journey are under the control of the railway operator, and delays can be timetabled. Now there can be exceptional circumstances leading to delay, but not every day.

Why do Darts creep along outside stations like Pearse or Connolly? Is it due to faulty timetables or is it due to systemic faults within the system? The Dart has only been with us for 35 years.

LXFlyer

Sam Russell wrote: »

Delays on railways are inexcusable. All elements of the journey are under the control of the railway operator, and delays can be timetabled. Now there can be exceptional circumstances leading to delay, but not every day.

Why do Darts creep along outside stations like Pearse or Connolly? Is it due to faulty timetables or is it due to systemic faults within the system? The Dart has only been with us for 35 years.

Again I’ll point out that the current DART running times are not accurate and are not fit for purpose. A new timetable is needed using adjusted running times. This will require completely new driver rosters. That can’t happen until the current driver dispute is resolved. So unfortunately the status quo will continue until that happens.

Delays can happen due to passengers falling ill (a common enough occurrence lately unfortunately), and issues at bridges and level crossings, all of which are outside the railway company’s control.

DARTs would be travelling slowly if the next signal is on yellow or red. It depends if the next signal section is clear. Better to creep than approach speedily and stop.

The Dublin suburban lines are not in isolation and it only needs one service to be delayed for whatever reason (e.g late running Intercity train) for delays to happen. It’s not fully segregated - I think you’re expectations are somewhat Utopian unfortunately.

LXFlyer

roadmaster wrote: »

Will the electrification of the maynooth line increase the travel times much compare to now. I had a meeting in blackrock this morning and instead of going down the M50 i parked at clonsilla and got the train down. It took me just over and hour which i felt was a long time, The train just seamed to crawl along and then drumcondra to Connolly you would be quicker walking id say. In fairness when i did switch to the dart in pearse it improved alot.

Every train approaching Connolly from Drumcondra potentially conflicts with a northbound and/or southbound train on the Northern line. It only needs a small delay in one train for things to go wrong elsewhere.

The Maynooth line will need to completely resignalled and level crossings eliminated. The key to everything working is to minimise conflicting movements.

Sam Russell

LXFlyer wrote: »

Again I’ll point out that the current DART running times are not accurate and are not fit for purpose. A new timetable is needed using adjusted running times. This will require completely new driver rosters. That can’t happen until the current driver dispute is resolved. So unfortunately the status quo will continue until that happens.

Delays can happen due to passengers falling ill (a common enough occurrence lately unfortunately), and issues at bridges and level crossings, all of which are outside the railway company’s control.

DARTs would be travelling slowly if the next signal is on yellow or red. It depends if the next signal section is clear. Better to creep than approach speedily and stop.

Will it take another 35 years before this is sorted?

Passengers falling ill is not happening multiple times a day, nor are problems with bridges or LCs at any thing like the regularity of slow trains. The problems appear to be caused by the mix of slow diesels onto the Dart line. Maybe the re-signalling at Connolly will make a difference, but the Dart expansion should.

LXFlyer

Sam Russell wrote: »

Will it take another 35 years before this is sorted?

Passengers falling ill is not happening multiple times a day, nor are problems with bridges or LCs at any thing like the regularity of slow trains. The problems appear to be caused by the mix of slow diesels onto the Dart line. Maybe the re-signalling at Connolly will make a difference, but the Dart expansion should.

It actually happens far more than you think.

Set up IE twitter alerts and you will be surprised.

The diesel services are not the issue. They have rapid acceleration.

It is the basic DART running times and schedule that needs to be changed. I don’t know how many times I have to post this before it sinks in.

The dispute is going on far too long - it’s getting ludicrous at this stage. But solving that will resolve a lot of time keeping issues.

As for 35 years, you’re getting rather hyperbolic being honest.

Zebra3

Drumcondra to Connolly has been like that for years.

Nobody with any responsibility seems to give a damn about it either.

LXFlyer

Zebra3 wrote: »

Drumcondra to Connolly has been like that for years.

Nobody with any responsibility seems to give a damn about it either.

You have to bear in mind that the signalling has been a patchwork quilt of different systems for a long time - it has only been the recent resignalling projects that have started to make a difference to this. But there is still a long way to go.

Funding from government for the necessary investment projects has been extremely slow - the city centre resignalling project has been put on hold numerous times as has the Maynooth line.

thomasjad

Sorry to change the topic slightly, has anyone heard anything regarding Kishoge station? Last I heard there was a review taking place last quarter. Seems a shame to leave a completed station closed.

LXFlyer

I believe that IE drivers have today voted to accept the proposals to resolve their dispute, so hopefully now the new drivers can finally be trained up, and in time new schedules implemented across the network.

Sam Russell

LXFlyer wrote: »

I believe that IE drivers have today voted to accept the proposals to resolve their dispute, so hopefully now the new drivers can finally be trained up, and in time new schedules implemented across the network.

I think they have made certain that the new Metro will be driverless.

murphaph

LXFlyer wrote: »

Again I’ll point out that the current DART running times are not accurate and are not fit for purpose. A new timetable is needed using adjusted running times. This will require completely new driver rosters. That can’t happen until the current driver dispute is resolved. So unfortunately the status quo will continue until that happens.

Delays can happen due to passengers falling ill (a common enough occurrence lately unfortunately), and issues at bridges and level crossings, all of which are outside the railway company’s control.

DARTs would be travelling slowly if the next signal is on yellow or red. It depends if the next signal section is clear. Better to creep than approach speedily and stop.

The Dublin suburban lines are not in isolation and it only needs one service to be delayed for whatever reason (e.g late running Intercity train) for delays to happen. It’s not fully segregated - I think you’re expectations are somewhat Utopian unfortunately.

My commuter line into Berlin is only double tracked and shares running with ICE trains a freight trains and regional express trains and delays aren't that common. The crawling into Connolly from the Maynooth line has been like that forever. Irish Rail are not a competent railway operator. Instead of retiring perfectly serviceable MkIIIs they should have spent the money on a solution for the above.

LXFlyer

murphaph wrote: »

My commuter line into Berlin is only double tracked and shares running with ICE trains a freight trains and regional express trains and delays aren't that common. The crawling into Connolly from the Maynooth line has been like that forever. Irish Rail are not a competent railway operator. Instead of retiring perfectly serviceable MkIIIs they should have spent the money on a solution for the above.

That’s also the location where two completely different signalling systems have to interact, one of which is badly in need of renewal - that I suspect is not the case with your commuter lines.

LXFlyer

Sam Russell wrote: »

I think they have made certain that the new Metro will be driverless.

Really???

I suspect technology will decide that.

Sam Russell

LXFlyer wrote: »

Really???

I suspect technology will decide that.

Well, according to the published information on Metrolink, the proposals include drivers in the cabs of the trains, and the possibility of driverless trains.

Technology has been there for at least a decade, so why even consider drivers? It is so 1950!