DART+ (DART Expansion)

Grandeeod

For ever odd wrote: »

Well what is the structure under Pearse that looks like a station?and was paid for as a underground station?

What was paid for as an underground station?

For ever odd

The metro underground station that was built back in 2008ish and 2009. I'm only asking if it is going to used or not?

D Trent

For ever odd wrote: »

The metro underground station that was built back in 2008ish and 2009. I'm only asking if it is going to used or not?

Provide proof or back up yr points. If not, kindly pss off

For ever odd

D Trent wrote: »

Provide proof or back up yr points. If not, kindly pss off

What? Didn't realise I needed proof to ask a question? But if you like, you could go and have a look.

Grandeeod

D Trent wrote: »

Provide proof or back up yr points. If not, kindly pss off

Cheers! You saved me the trouble.:D

mackerski

For ever odd wrote: »

What? Didn't realise I needed proof to ask a question? But if you like, you could go and have a look.

Do you reckon there is a space teapot in orbit around the earth? Nobody can prove there isn't, right?

For ever odd

Why are ye telling me piss off? Quiet rude.

Grandeeod

For ever odd wrote: »

Why are ye telling me piss off? Quiet rude.

Because there is no underground station of any kind under Pearse station and you still don'r get it.

For ever odd

Global rail were the contractor, and yes there is... Why would I make it up? Only wanted to find out if taxpayers money was wasted..... Looks like it has judging by the tone here.

Grandeeod

For ever odd wrote: »

Global rail were the contractor, and yes there is... Why would I make it up? Only wanted to find out if taxpayers money was wasted..... Looks like it has judging by the tone here.

Something to do with an escalator. Its the new entrance. There is no underground station.

For ever odd

Grandeeod wrote: »

Something to do with an escalator. There is no underground station.

i know what is there,and the level below said "escalator" why are you guessing about something you don't know about?

L1011

There were some prep works only done. Similar to the retaining wall built under the Mater for Metro North - prep, not a station. Ditto the basement in T1 at the airport that's oft claimed to be a station even though most people here probably checked in for a holiday there as 'area 14'

Grandeeod

For ever odd wrote: »

i know what is there,and the level below said "escalator" why are you guessing about something you don't know about?

You are right. I haven't a clue what I'm talking about. I shall leave it to another boardsie to explain.

strassenwo!f

liamog wrote: »

Dart Underground is not an East West line.

The plan was to connect the Western Lines to the Northern lines whilst also expanding the area served by mainline rail transport such as Docklands and Stephens Green.

The proposal was for an east-west (or west-east) route. It would have connected Heuston/Inchicore to the east of the city with Spencer Dock in the west. Even though that proposal did take a very marked southerly loop, to St. Stephen's Green (probably to connect with the LUAS, given that that was stuck there), it was still an east-west line.

liamog wrote: »

The planned route achieved this whilst also avoiding the architecturally sensitive area of Trinity.

We've been through that a number of times on this thread, and the key thing here is to look at the development of the network, in Dublin.

Apart from many buses, St. Stephen's Green is already served by the LUAS. If the earlier plans of this millennium had been implemented it would also be served by the metro, and it would make sense to me that it eventually will be.

liamog wrote: »

Multiple sources have been provided to show why a station at Stephens Green is not just an ideal building location but also an advantageous area for employment and access reasons.

It is well served already, and could be better served. But there have not yet been any figures produced to show that mainline rail needs to go there, or that the city would benefit more by building mainline rail on an east-west line through there rather than through other locations on a potential route.

There are many places in TCD which are architecturally sensitive. The facade on College Green is one, and great care would have to be taken building under there. The stuff on College Street and Pearse Street, which would surely be involved in any route via College Green, is pretty run-of-th-mill.

Overall, you have the recently proposed route, going directly under both Government Buildings and Dublin Castle, and clearly no safe architectural route from that point of view. Or you might have a route under the northern front facade of TCD, and no other significant buildings, to achieve the same thing.

liamog wrote: »

Multiple sources have been provided to show why a station at Stephens Green is not just an ideal building location but also an advantageous area for employment and access reasons.

I've said many times that St. Stephen's Green is an ideal building location. But construction there probably involves more direct cost - because you would be building a longer route - and certainly a longer term cost to the city.

If you look back through the thread, the employment maps presented above do not back up what you say.

I saw a recent piece by Frank McDonald on the Irish Times website about the current situation in Dublin.

http://www.irishtimes.com/culture/ar...blin-1.2569247

(The last time I looked, Frank was the Irish Times's Environment Correspondent. That may possibly have changed, as his output for the paper hasn't been huge over the last few years. Often months go by with nothing from him. He may well be working on other things.)

I think it is relevant to this thread because a lot of the recent pages here have involved discussion of the route of this proposed tunnel through the most built-up areas of Dublin.

I was surprised to see a poster above talking about 'dragging' the interconnector through College Green, even though that would be much closer to the originally proposed interchange location in Temple Bar than a St. Stephen's Green station would be.

If there's any 'dragging' involved, it would surely be more appropriate to use it for a process which involves moving the originally proposed line several hundred metres southward - to a location beside a large park. It's not a word which comes to mind for a suggestion which would involve a realignment of around 100 metres from the original plan.

There are certainly architectural issues involved, especially with TCD. But nobody is talking about tunnelling under the Long Room, or any of the other masterpieces which exist in the place. And, I feel, insufficient weight has so far been given to the problems which will be involved in tunnelling under two of Dublin's other important structures - Dublin Castle and Government Buildings - which were proposed by the recent plan.

Dublin might be able to use the possible pedestrianisation of College Green, which we have talked about here and Frank McDonald mentions again in his video, to create a central space, but I believe it is worth serious consideration to look at that proposal with a view to it eventually having the serious public transport function along the lines of, or possibly much greater than, what it currently has. That is, with an underground interchange under it.

Many of the civic spaces which Frank mentions have already done this 'doubling up', if you will. Creating a central space with a major interchange underneath

spacetweek

D Trent wrote: »

Provide proof or back up yr points. If not, kindly pss off

Be nice.

murphaph

So much text. So little building. I wonder do the senior civil servants in the DoT ever take a peek in here at people getting worked up over something that won't be built in their lifetimes, just for a laugh like....

Zebra3

murphaph wrote: »

So much text. So little building. I wonder do the senior civil servants in the DoT ever take a peek in here at people getting worked up over something that won't be built in their lifetimes, just for a laugh like....

*Insert cliched comment about civil servants having nothing else to do* :pac:

liamog

strassenwo!f wrote: »

The proposal was for an east-west (or west-east) route. It would have connected Heuston/Inchicore to the east of the city with Spencer Dock in the west. Even though that proposal did take a very marked southerly loop, to St. Stephen's Green (probably to connect with the LUAS, given that that was stuck there), it was still an east-west line.

This was always about connecting Heuston to the Northern Line, that's why they called it the Interconnector for a while, your so called loop was partly due to the need to hit Spencer Dock in a North-South orientation.

strassenwo!f wrote: »

We've been through that a number of times on this thread, and the key thing here is to look at the development of the network, in Dublin.

Apart from many buses, St. Stephen's Green is already served by the LUAS. If the earlier plans of this millennium had been implemented it would also be served by the metro, and it would make sense to me that it eventually will be.

It is well served already, and could be better served. But there have not yet been any figures produced to show that mainline rail needs to go there, or that the city would benefit more by building mainline rail on an east-west line through there rather than through other locations on a potential route.

Not an East-West Line.

strassenwo!f wrote: »

There are many places in TCD which are architecturally sensitive. The facade on College Green is one, and great care would have to be taken building under there. The stuff on College Street and Pearse Street, which would surely be involved in any route via College Green, is pretty run-of-th-mill.

Overall, you have the recently proposed route, going directly under both Government Buildings and Dublin Castle, and clearly no safe architectural route from that point of view. Or you might have a route under the northern front facade of TCD, and no other significant buildings, to achieve the same thing.

Again mentioned by many posters, the difference of course being TCD is a private institution whereas the other historical buildings are state owned.

strassenwo!f wrote: »

I've said many times that St. Stephen's Green is an ideal building location. But construction there probably involves more direct cost - because you would be building a longer route - and certainly a longer term cost to the city.

If you look back through the thread, the employment maps presented above do not back up what you say.

This was debunked more than once, employment maps and trip generators were similar across each location.

strassenwo!f wrote: »

I saw a recent piece by Frank McDonald on the Irish Times website about the current situation in Dublin.

http://www.irishtimes.com/culture/ar...blin-1.2569247

(The last time I looked, Frank was the Irish Times's Environment Correspondent. That may possibly have changed, as his output for the paper hasn't been huge over the last few years. Often months go by with nothing from him. He may well be working on other things.)

I think it is relevant to this thread because a lot of the recent pages here have involved discussion of the route of this proposed tunnel through the most built-up areas of Dublin.

Newspaper man writes article in newspaper.

strassenwo!f wrote: »

I was surprised to see a poster above talking about 'dragging' the interconnector through College Green, even though that would be much closer to the originally proposed interchange location in Temple Bar than a St. Stephen's Green station would be.

If there's any 'dragging' involved, it would surely be more appropriate to use it for a process which involves moving the originally proposed line several hundred metres southward - to a location beside a large park. It's not a word which comes to mind for a suggestion which would involve a realignment of around 100 metres from the original plan.

Plans change, for many, many reasons, the SG Station looks to be the better option for reasons that we covered oh so many times.



I find it ironic that a number of constituency profiles highlighted the importance of public transport to Dublin Residents, we're in a period when the ECB is printing money and yet the Government that be, has decided to not push on.

We should of gone for a hand built tunnel between 08-14, could of given some jobs to people and we'd have had a nice load of Jobsbridge Fella's with tunnelling experience.

Sam Russell

liamog wrote: »

We should of gone for a hand built tunnel between 08-14, could of given some jobs to people and we'd have had a nice load of Jobsbridge Fella's with tunnelling experience.

That would have great offering loads of jobs - the unemployed taking their pick.:)

For ever odd

Originally Posted by liamog View Post

We should of gone for a hand built tunnel between 08-14, could of given some jobs to people and we'd have had a nice load of Jobsbridge Fella's with tunnelling experience.

Surprisingly Irish labour, between 2010-2016 have helped build City Banan in Stockholm and Copenhagen Metro. Two of the biggest projects in Northern Europe in the past few years.
At least 300 experienced skilled Irish that are highly sought after across the tunnelling sector are willing .... But Irish mis-management will let them down again.

monument

It's worth saying that while the current buildings are original, the west end of the TCD campus predates almost everything of note along the Metro route.

strassenwo!f

murphaph wrote: »

So much text. So little building. I wonder do the senior civil servants in the DoT ever take a peek in here at people getting worked up over something that won't be built in their lifetimes, just for a laugh like....

Maybe they do.

But you could also look at the Platform for Change document (produced by civil servants and almost in its entirety unimplemented after 15 or so years), Transport 21's proposals for Dublin (also produced by civil servants and also almost in their entirety unimplemented after 10 or more years), or the rash of half-baked ideas which emerged in the immediate aftermath of both DU and metro north being cancelled, and you wouldn't see any major cause there for senior civil servants in the DOT to be vigorously patting themselves on the back.

strassenwo!f

I don't, unfortunately, have time to go through all the points raised here, but I do need to clarify a couple of points.

liamog wrote: »

This was always about connecting Heuston to the Northern Line, that's why they called it the Interconnector for a while, your so called loop was partly due to the need to hit Spencer Dock in a North-South orientation.

You refute the idea that the DART Underground tunnel was an East-West line, even though it would have linked Spencer Dock with Heuston, two locations either side of, say, O'Connell Bridge. What orientation do you feel it had?

There is no obvious need to build via St. Stephen's Green to approach Spencer Dock in this way. A direct route from Christchurch to Pearse, via somewhere around College Green, with a curve from Pearse to Spencer Dock, should be very manageable for the trains using this line. Look at, for example, a city like Frankfurt.

liamog wrote: »

Again mentioned by many posters, the difference of course being TCD is a private institution whereas the other historical buildings are state owned.

Most of TCD's employees are employed by the state. There are probably some, in places like the Buttery, who are under contract, but the vast majority are employed by the State. The Private/Public ownership of TCD has nothing to do with this discussion.

strassenwo!f

Indeed, Frankfurt might be an interesting model for Dublin. It has really only one retail area in the city centre, the 'Zeil', which is one of Germany's busiest shopping streets. There are, of course, many offices above those shops, and many other office buildings in the area of this street. It is unquestionably the centre.

And the large curve on Frankfurt's S-Bahn line reflects the need to build there.

Dublin doesn't have anything so clearcut as the necessity to have a line running under such a busy shopping street to maintain all-day demand, as Frankfurt had, but College Green (or some location in its' vicinity) would be right between Dublin's two busiest shopping areas, Henry Street and Grafton Street.

It's also right in in the middle when it comes to other workers, like office workers. In the worker density maps which we discussed earlier, College Green is pretty much surrounded by red (the 'highest density of worker' category) areas.

murphaph

Enough already.

liamog

I saw on the Metro North thread that DCC and Fingal are to start returning developer contributions, do we know if that's going to happen for DU?

strassenwo!f

murphaph wrote: »

Enough already.

No.

Both you and I have seen how a cross-city line transformed Munich, and I (and perhaps you) have seen how it transformed Frankfurt. I believe a cross-city line could do the same for Dublin, and discussion about how best to do this is relevant.

D.L.R.

I've had a gut feeling since DU was shelved that MN has overtaken it in terms of planning, and I wouldn't be surprised now if MN is approved and built first at this stage.

I guess that wouldn't be too bad since building one makes the other inevitable, but its still annoying to see the more important project falling down the list.

In the meantime I expect the PPT line will prove popular and send a clear message regards demand.

murphaph

strassenwo!f wrote: »

No.

Both you and I have seen how a cross-city line transformed Munich, and I (and perhaps you) have seen how it transformed Frankfurt. I believe a cross-city line could do the same for Dublin, and discussion about how best to do this is relevant.

Relevant to whom? The project has been canned. It's politically unacceptable for the rural dominated Dail to be seen doing anything for Dublin. Only when that is fixed, will DU see the light of day. Arguing about CG v SSG is ridiculous, don't you see that?

Grandeeod

D.L.R. wrote: »

I've had a gut feeling since DU was shelved that MN has overtaken it in terms of planning, and I wouldn't be surprised now if MN is approved and built first at this stage.

I guess that wouldn't be too bad since building one makes the other inevitable, but its still annoying to see the more important project falling down the list.

I disagree with your gut. The last Government pulled a massive fudge on both MN and DU.