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Will motorcyclists get stopped using the new bus priority on College Green?

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    #122
    cyclopath2001
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,359 ✭✭✭cyclopath2001


    zagmund wrote: »
    Potential conflict with oncoming traffic - well yes, but this applies to anyone driving on the wrong side of the road.
    In the city, it is mostly motorcyclists that do this.
    zagmund wrote: »
    this is down to car users behaviour (opening the door without confirming it is safe to do so, opening the door in traffic in the first place, etc . . .)
    But also points to a lack of defensive behaviour by motorcyclists, keeping a safe distance while passing and moderating speed in high-risk areas.
    zagmund wrote: »
    and would also impact cyclists equally.
    Except that motorcyclists have a higher speed and momentum.

    [QUOTE=zagmund;61376840they have got to be joking here . . . because pedestrians might cross the road illegally,[/QUOTE]You're implying that all road-crossing by pedestrians is illegal, when it is not.


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    #123
    Run_to_da_hills
    Closed Accounts Posts: 20,009 ✭✭✭✭Run_to_da_hills


    cyclopath2001 wrote: »
    In the city, it is mostly motorcyclists that do this..
    Reason being that motorcyclists are forced into use the outside lane. :rolleyes:

    In the days prior to cycle lanes it was common to see cyclists filtering through gaps in wall to wall traffic often on the outside lane facing oncoming traffic. Now that they have their own space the attitude by many cyclists seems to be fu*k you jack im ok.
    cyclopath2001 wrote: »


    But also points to a lack of defensive behavior by motorcyclists, keeping a safe distance while passing and moderating speed in high-risk areas.

    Except that motorcyclists have a higher speed and momentum.
    A door opening suddenly in front of a motorcyclist doing 5 or 10 mph is enough to cause serious injury including broken bones if the cycle falls over on top of him. Have you ever had a car door open suddenly in front of you? you obviously haven't done much cycling.
    cyclopath2001 wrote: »
    You're implying that all road-crossing by pedestrians is illegal, when it is not.
    It should be illegal if pedestrian crossings are within the vicinity and they don't use them. Also J walking offenses should be enforced and you should agree with this one.


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    #124
    cyclopath2001
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,359 ✭✭✭cyclopath2001


    Run_to_da_hills wrote: »
    Reason being that motorcyclists are forced into use the outside lane. :rolleyes:
    Forced? They choose to do it.
    Run_to_da_hills wrote: »
    Have you ever had a car door open suddenly in front of you? you obviously haven't done much cycling.
    Yes I have, but I travel more slowly and am prepared to stop if I cannot pass within a safe distance of a possible opening door. It's called 'defensive' riding. So, instead of zipping along at high speed and blowing my horn at people who get in my way, I anticipate and modify my trajectory to suit others. There are only a few places where this is really necessary.
    Run_to_da_hills wrote: »
    It should be illegal if pedestrian crossings are within the vicinity and they don't use them.
    And what is the size of this 'vicinity', in metres or car lengths? Do you know it?
    Run_to_da_hills wrote: »
    Also J walking offenses should be enforced and you should agree with this one.
    As should 'driving without consideration for others'.


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    #125
    Run_to_da_hills
    Closed Accounts Posts: 20,009 ✭✭✭✭Run_to_da_hills


    cyclopath2001 wrote: »
    Forced? They choose to do it .
    Im talking of motorcyclists that refuse to use the bus lanes. they have no choice :rolleyes:
    cyclopath2001 wrote: »
    Yes I have, but I travel more slowly and am prepared to stop if I cannot pass within a safe distance of a possible opening door. It's called 'defensive' riding.
    .
    The average experienced motorcyclists know a hell of a lot more about defensive driving than any cyclists. His life is at the mercy of some reckless idiot.

    Apart from car doors opening in congested traffic, we have to be prepared for reckless cyclists, cycling without lights or reflective clothing, constantly weaving in and out of traffic without indicating, breaking traffic lights and other road signs.


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    #126
    Quint
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,407 ✭✭✭Quint


    So, with all the good reasons that motorcycles should use bus lanes, has anyone come up with a reason that motorcycles shouldn't use bus lanes?


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    #127
    cyclopath2001
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,359 ✭✭✭cyclopath2001


    Run_to_da_hills wrote: »
    Im talking of motorcyclists that refuse to use the bus lanes. they have no choice :rolleyes:
    How about obeying the rules of the road?
    Run_to_da_hills wrote: »
    The average experienced motorcyclists know a hell of a lot more about defensive driving than any cyclists.
    Not born out by statistics put forward by other motorcyclists. They say that motorcyclists have a higher than average injury rate.
    Run_to_da_hills wrote: »
    we have to be prepared for reckless cyclists....
    But not drivers and other motorcyclists? Clearly, you have an incomplete view of all of the risks.

    BTW The answer to the pedestrian crossing question is 15 metres. That's roughly 5 car lengths either side of a pedestrian crossing. In any case, you must give way to pedestrians who have started crossing, legally or otherwise.


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    #128
    Run_to_da_hills
    Closed Accounts Posts: 20,009 ✭✭✭✭Run_to_da_hills


    cyclopath2001 wrote: »
    How about obeying the rules of the road?
    .
    We already went throough this, there is absolutely nothing wrong with motorcyclists filtering through traffic on the outer lane provided they obey the rules of the road and use common sense.
    cyclopath2001 wrote: »
    Not born out by statistics put forward by other motorcyclists. They say that motorcyclists have a higher than average injury rate..
    Already explained by another poster. They are more vulnerable and exposed to injury than any other form of transport on the road.
    cyclopath2001 wrote: »
    But not drivers and other motorcyclists? Clearly, you have an incomplete view of all of the risks. BTW The answer to the pedestrian crossing question is 15 metres. That's roughly 5 car lengths either side of a pedestrian crossing. In any case, you must give way to pedestrians who have started crossing, legally or otherwise.
    I understand but as you know your self what about those pedestrians that walk out between the gaps of busses and high roofed vehicles without looking.


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    #129
    cyclopath2001
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,359 ✭✭✭cyclopath2001


    Run_to_da_hills wrote: »
    We already went throough this, there is absolutely nothing wrong with motorcyclists filtering through traffic on the outer lane provided they obey the rules of the road and use common sense.
    Which they don't do.
    Run_to_da_hills wrote: »
    Already explained by another poster. They are more vulnerable and exposed to injury than any other form of transport on the road.
    For which they don't adapt their own behaviour. Instead, absurdly, you blame cyclists more than any other kind of road user for the high injury rate among motorcyclists. The biggest risk to motorcyclists is their own behaviour.
    Run_to_da_hills wrote: »
    I understand but as you know your self what about those pedestrians that walk out between the gaps of busses and high roofed vehicles without looking.
    And for which it is necessary to make allowances...see 'driving with due care and consideration'

    To come back on topic, the City Council wants to favour cycling and public transport and make Dublin city centre more pleasant. It seems that the current behaviour of motorcyclists has made their presence in College Green undesirable.


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    #130
    faceman
    Moderators, Category Moderators, Arts Moderators, Entertainment Moderators, Social & Fun Moderators Posts: 16,589 CMod ✭✭✭✭faceman


    This thread should be closed, its pointless and way off topic. This Cyclist vs Motorcyclist bollocks is schoolyard stuff.

    Some motorcyclists break the rules of the road regularly
    Some cyclists break the rules of the road regularly

    Deal with it kids.


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    #131
    Run_to_da_hills
    Closed Accounts Posts: 20,009 ✭✭✭✭Run_to_da_hills


    cyclopath2001 wrote: »
    Which they don't do.

    For which they don't adapt their own behaviour. Instead, absurdly, you blame cyclists more than any other kind of road user for the high injury rate among motorcyclists. The biggest risk to motorcyclists is their own behaviour.
    .
    You haven't a clue what you are talking about, Again the statistics: 70% of road accidents involving bikers are due to the fault of other road users. MAG Ireland can provide more details on this statistic. http://magireland.org/


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    #132
    cyclopath2001
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,359 ✭✭✭cyclopath2001


    Run_to_da_hills wrote: »
    You haven't a clue what you are talking about, Again the statistics: 70% of road accidents involving bikers are due to the fault of other road users. MAG Ireland can provide more details on this statistic. http://magireland.org/
    Where is this statistic backed up on the MAG website? Can you provide a direct link? In any accident, there is a primary cause and there are contributory factors. In how many of these accidents was there contributory negligence by the motorcyclist?

    Are there also statistics concerning legal compliance by motorcyclists? After all this is far more relevant to the reasons for their exclusion from College Green.


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    #133
    Run_to_da_hills
    Closed Accounts Posts: 20,009 ✭✭✭✭Run_to_da_hills


    cyclopath2001 wrote: »
    Where is this statistic backed up on the MAG website? .
    http://www.dft.gov.uk/pgr/roadsafety/research/rsrr/theme5/indepthstudyofmotorcycleacc.pdf


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    #134
    Carawaystick
    Registered Users Posts: 8,779 ✭✭✭Carawaystick


    Run_to_da_hills wrote: »
    http://www.dft.gov.uk/pgr/roadsafety/research/rsrr/theme5/indepthstudyofmotorcycleacc.pdf

    That's research published by a foreign government, presumably about their country not ours.


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    #135
    Run_to_da_hills
    Closed Accounts Posts: 20,009 ✭✭✭✭Run_to_da_hills


    Carawaystick wrote: »
    That's research published by a foreign government, presumably about their country not ours.
    That foreign country is the UK where the Government there puts a lot more into the research and safety of the motorcyclist unlike here where they don't seem to give a damn. Im sure the statistics would be pretty much the same.


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    #136
    zagmund
    Registered Users Posts: 2,501 ✭✭✭zagmund


    This thread really has run its course . . . it has been a "I'm a cyclist and I hate motorcyclists and their silly motorcycles and the silly way they drive them and the silly noise they make and don't get me started on the silly helmets they wear . . ." thread for a few pages at this stage.

    As above, let it go lads . . .

    There has been no strong argument put forward to explain why they should be banned from the route, apart from 'arguments' that could be used to ban them from *all* roads. I haven't seen anything that explains specifically what it is about College Green that is so lethal to motorcyclists but that doesn't warrant banning them from (say) Dawson Street.

    z


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    #137
    Calina
    Registered Users Posts: 8,219 ✭✭✭Calina


    Yeah, I agree.

    Lockdown at this stage.


This discussion has been closed.
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