Will motorcyclists get stopped using the new bus priority on College Green?

Bluetonic

Run_to_da_hills wrote: »

Obviously you have never commuted on a motorcycle or scooter in pis*ing rain.

So your saying anytime outside pissing rain it's inexcusable?

Any chance we can get an answer to this?

Rob_l

Quint wrote: »

The safety of others is almost funny it's so selfish. Motorbikes using bus lanes makes a massive drop in their accident statistics and almost no rise in anyone elses. And motorcycle accidents are almost always very serious for the rider. As I said before, the people that matter here are the guards, they have the cop on to not support a rule that indangers far more people than it helps.
Although, as you don't seem to give a damn about ploughing into a woman crossing the road, the above selfish attitude is to be expected.
http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2055339992
It seems "the law" is far more important to you than what's actually right and wrong.

Right and wrong is subjective the law is there to remove that, using my wrong to prove yours is right doesn't do anything to remove its illegality. In fact that old thread also highlights the greater danger posed by motor cyclists using the cycle lane, suppossing i had been a motorcyclist and hit that same woman what would her potential chances for serious injury have been then, increased or decreased?

Can you show me these statistics? I dont belive in using the words statistics to prove something I prefer more solid facts!

Run_to_da_hills

After reading this thread I hope to God Rob 1 never gets on a motorcycle. :eek:

http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2055339992

Rob_l

Run_to_da_hills wrote: »

Obviously you have never commuted on a motorcycle or scooter in pis*ing rain.

Im impressed!

Your taking quite a moral standpoint now for a man who decrees breaking the road laws because its raining!

:rolleyes:

Rob_l

With regards to motorcylcists being safer and statistics being available, can you provide them?

The Charter wrote:

We should be aware that some posters will be over zealous about their preferred means of transport, but that this should be balanced. If you make a particular statement for or against a particular form of transport, you should be willing to back it up.

Run_to_da_hills

Bluetonic wrote: »

So your saying anytime outside pissing rain it's inexcusable?

Any chance we can get an answer to this?

There are several reasons why motorcyclists filter up through traffic. They have to breath in belching fumes from caged vehicles if they are stuck in traffic, they dont have the luxury of putting on AC or winding up windows.

Rob_l

Run_to_da_hills wrote: »

There are several reasons why motorcyclists filter up through traffic. They have to breath in belching fumes from caged vehicles if they are stuck in traffic, they dont have the luxury of putting on AC or winding up windows.

Again that is a fact of modern traffic life if your preferred mode is not suitable that does not justify breaking road traffic laws and perhaps indicates that you should consider a change.

Quint

Rob_l wrote: »

Right and wrong is subjective the law is there to remove that, using my wrong to prove yours is right doesn't do anything to remove its illegality.

I suppose if your daughter on the day of her 17th birthday had sex with a 94 year old man you wouldn't mind "cos it's legal"? You'd still rather motorbikes put themselves and pedestrians at risk because the people what make the rules of the road don't have a clue? Get a grip! I assume you stop your bike at red pedestrians lights when there's not a pedestrian in sight because they're the rules of the road?

Rob_l wrote: »

In fact that old thread also highlights the greater danger posed by motor cyclists using the cycle lane, suppossing i had been a motorcyclist and hit that same woman what would her potential chances for serious injury have been then, increased or decreased?

Well, we're talking about bus lanes here, you were in a cycle lane so that's irrelevant

Rob_l wrote: »

Can you show me these statistics? I dont belive in using the words statistics to prove something I prefer more solid facts!

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/motoring/safety/2750428/The-truth-about-bikes-and-bus-lanes.html

Rob_l

Quint wrote: »

I suppose if your daughter on the day of her 17th birthday had sex with a 94 year old man you wouldn't mind "cos it's legal"? You'd still rather motorbikes put themselves and pedestrians at risk because the people what make the rules of the road don't have a clue? Get a grip! I assume you stop your bike at red pedestrians lights when there's not a pedestrian in sight because they're the rules of the road?

Oh come on thats a comparision and a half Im oppossed to the death penalty too but I guess if you put hitler and stalin a room i may change my mind.

What has a woman and man having sex got to do with what we are talking about thats not a response thats a cop out!

Rob_l

Quint wrote: »

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/motoring/safety/2750428/The-truth-about-bikes-and-bus-lanes.html

I checked that article and while a interesting read, I would have to say there are many issues namely first the report was still unpublished when that article came out and secondly might some of the mitigating factors not be due to decreased traffic over the trial period as a result of londons other traffice decongestion solutions, it never indicates wheter the roads not used by motorbikes also had increased pedal traffic, nor did it have a broad range of cyclists opinions who are after all still road users 40 responders out of 800 is not a valid survery.

Rob_l

Quint wrote: »

Well, we're talking about bus lanes here, you were in a cycle lane so that's irrelevant

I see so its, irrelavant when I use it, but somehow relevant when you use it to discredit my opinion.

Interesting I see we have a a good solid base for a reasoned and fair discussion here so!

Run_to_da_hills

Rob_l wrote: »

Right and wrong is subjective the law is there to remove that, using my wrong to prove yours is right doesn't do anything to remove its illegality. In fact that old thread also highlights the greater danger posed by motor cyclists using the cycle lane, suppossing i had been a motorcyclist and hit that same woman what would her potential chances for serious injury have been then, increased or decreased?

Can you show me these statistics? I dont belive in using the words statistics to prove something I prefer more solid facts!

The average biker is a lot more observant than any most other road user including cylists. They have 3rd sense to assume everyone else on the road is a threat to them. In your case i would have assumed that a pedestrian wearing headphones standing at the side of the road staring into space was with the birds and would have slowed down well in advance.

A motorcycle doing 25MPH in a bus lans is going to stop a lot quicker in an emergency than any push bike doing the same speed.

a_ominous

Motorcyclists are vulnerable road users too, so should be allowed in bus lanes. I've even been stopped by a (motorcycle) cop and when I was filtering and rather surprised when he said "you'll be much safer in the bus lane".

RE College Green specifically, Council will have to change signs on bottom of George's Stree, O'Connell St and Pearse Street as the signs there explicitly give access to motorcycles in addition to buses, taxis and cars.

I personally don't see congestion improving much just coz cars aren't there. Ever looked at the southbound traffic on O'Connell St which doesn't include cars? Buses pulling out from stops block the whole road. Most European countries I've visited have parallel stops in the centre to reduce this effect in the most congested areas.

Idleater

Run_to_da_hills wrote: »

A motorcycle doing 25MPH in a bus lans is going to stop a lot quicker in an emergency than any push bike doing the same speed.

I could pick any number of points to pick you up on (I am a motorist, motorcyclist and a cyclist), but I can categorically state that you are incorrect on this one.

What this proves is one of the first things they teach doing advanced driving courses (which I have completed) and that is, that you should never overestimate your abilities, and that you should never underestimate how little you have yet to learn.

Please stop bringing this into a cyclist vs motorcyclist debate, as that serves no purpose, as both methods of transport serve to basically the common goal - that of avoiding traffic.

On the other side, I would agree with opening the bus lane (and bus lanes in general) to motorcyclists. However the way I would see it working is rather than providing "lanes" for segregating road users, simply create a heirarchy of responsibility with pedestrians at the top, then cyclists.

The idea of this is that there is an assumption that pedestrians are "correct", cyclists being the next most vulnerable are required to give way to pedestrians, but must be yielded to by all other road users.

Cyclists in Holland for example, have equal status with pedestrians, they can do what they want and if you hit them then you are at fault - regardless of how stupid they are.

This means that motorists _always_ look out for them rather than pigeon holing them into their lane at the edge of the road.

Rob_l

Run_to_da_hills wrote: »

The average biker is a lot more observant than any most other road user including cylists. They have 3rd sense to assume everyone else on the road is a threat to them. In your case i would have assumed that a pedestrian wearing headphones standing at the side of the road staring into space was with the birds and would have slowed down well in advance.

A motorcycle doing 25MPH in a bus lans is going to stop a lot quicker in an emergency than any push bike doing the same speed.

Im glad you read the thread your using to denounce me and didn't just jump to the first conclusion you could!

Sorry, my mistake you did. Here is what I said happened from that thread.

Rob_l wrote:

she stepped out from in front of a jeep right into the cycle path i was only about two maybe three metres from her by the time i saw her

And as for your third sense thing I think you'll find we have 5 sense's already so if Motorcycles use their 3rd sense then they are using two less than they should.

But I think what you mean is your extra observant and quite frankly that does not fly, so I should just rest safe in the knowledge that all motorcylcists are more observant than everyone else?

Thats quite a boast to make i hope you have some stats for that!

I dont accept that, motorcyclists have a higher rate of accidents so how does that go with your superior road knowledge and extra sense?

Rob_l

nereid wrote: »

I could pick any number of points to pick you up on (I am a motorist, motorcyclist and a cyclist), but I can categorically state that you are incorrect on this one.

What this proves is one of the first things they teach doing advanced driving courses (which I have completed) and that is, that you should never overestimate your abilities, and that you should never underestimate how little you have yet to learn.

Please stop bringing this into a cyclist vs motorcyclist debate, as that serves no purpose, as both methods of transport serve to basically the common goal - that of avoiding traffic.

On the other side, I would agree with opening the bus lane (and bus lanes in general) to motorcyclists. However the way I would see it working is rather than providing "lanes" for segregating road users, simply create a heirarchy of responsibility with pedestrians at the top, then cyclists.

The idea of this is that there is an assumption that pedestrians are "correct", cyclists being the next most vulnerable are required to give way to pedestrians, but must be yielded to by all other road users.

Cyclists in Holland for example, have equal status with pedestrians, they can do what they want and if you hit them then you are at fault - regardless of how stupid they are.

This means that motorists _always_ look out for them rather than pigeon holing them into their lane at the edge of the road.

This is much more sensible approach, if the bus lanes were to be opened to motorcyclists then there would have to be some segregation of the lane in terms of behaviour, as a cyclist it is quite a frightening sound when boy racer biker flys past you in a cyclelane\bus lane, begining with a deafening roar from behind followed by being passed within inches of.

Quint

Rob_l wrote: »

I see so its, irrelavant when I use it, but somehow relevant when you use it to discredit my opinion.

Interesting I see we have a a good solid base for a reasoned and fair discussion here so!

How is you having a crash in a cycle lane in any way relevant to motorcycles using bus lanes?

Rob_l wrote: »

I checked that article and while a interesting read, I would have to say there are many issues namely first the report was still unpublished when that article came out and secondly might some of the mitigating factors not be due to decreased traffic over the trial period as a result of londons other traffice decongestion solutions, it never indicates wheter the roads not used by motorbikes also had increased pedal traffic, nor did it have a broad range of cyclists opinions who are after all still road users 40 responders out of 800 is not a valid survery.

Fell free to ignore it, now wheres your link that says it's more dangerous for motorbikes to use bus lanes? BTW, London are opening up their bus lanes to motorcycles.

“I believe we should embrace any measure that has the potential
to relieve congestion, especially if new evidence shows it to be
safe and effective. Therefore, I will allow motorcycles in bus
lanes. I believe that motorcycles will help combat congestion,
and we should encourage greater use of them.” - Boris Johnson, Mayor of London

And most cyclists have no problem with motorcycles in cycle lanes. Have a read of this:
http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2055351831&highlight=motorcycle&page=2

Rob_l wrote: »

Oh come on thats a comparision and a half Im oppossed to the death penalty too but I guess if you put hitler and stalin a room i may change my mind.

What has a woman and man having sex got to do with what we are talking about thats not a response thats a cop out!

Well, you think the law = right, you're the one that thinks a dangerous rule should be obeyed and enforced because "it's the law".
So, do you stop at red pedestrian lights when there's clearly no pedestrians around? I hope so, because it's the law. Me, well, I cycle about 3 days a week and I never stop for them. Another rule of the road I break, so sue me!

Rob_l

Quint wrote: »

How is you having a crash in a cycle lane in any way relevant to motorcycles using bus lanes?!

I never brought that into the discussion, you did! So your new found innocence on why this is being discussed is most amazing.
http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showpost.php?p=61255168&postcount=29

So when you tell me what it has to do with the discussion I will give you, your own answer back!

Quint wrote: »

Fell free to ignore it, now wheres your link that says it's more dangerous for motorbikes to use bus lanes? BTW, London are opening up their bus lanes to motorcycles.

please re-read this thread I have never offered any stats claiming it was more dangerous, I have simply bemoaned motorcylcists attitude of thats not the way it should be so i'll ignore that law.

Quint wrote: »

And most cyclists have no problem with motorcycles in cycle lanes. Have a read of this:
http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2055351831&highlight=motorcycle&page=2

I have never claimed i have an over riding problem i think there is some rules than would have to be clarified to protect cyclists, my main issue has been my point above

Quint wrote: »

Well, you think the law = right, you're the one that thinks a dangerous rule should be obeyed and enforced because "it's the law".
So, do you stop at red pedestrian lights when there's clearly no pedestrians around? I hope so, because it's the law. Me, well, I cycle about 3 days a week and I never stop for them. Another rule of the road I break, so sue me!

Well most pedestrian lights actually double as cycle pedestrian crossings, I believe. AS a result of the thread you brought into this discussion that very incident forced me to review the way I cycle around the city and to take stock of my attitude and general approach as a result I am a lot camler and in less of rush in such areas.

I also dont change my attitude becuase its raining I anticipate the rain and wear suitable clothes.

Run_to_da_hills

Rob_l wrote: »

Im glad you read the thread your using to denounce me and didn't just jump to the first conclusion you could!

Sorry, my mistake you did. Here is what I said happened from that thread.

Even MORE a reason why you shouldn't have be riding like the clappers as you stated in your post. What if a child or dog walked out between that jeep. In an area like that you should have been extra vigilant and be using common sense by taking it handy.

Rob_l

Run_to_da_hills wrote: »

Even MORE a reason why you shouldn't have be riding like the clappers as you stated in your post. What if a child or dog walked out between that jeep. In an area like that you should have been extra vigilant and be using common sense by taking it handy.

I dont see how I can take advice on proper road usage from a person who advocates breaking road traffic laws because it is a bit rainy!

but, Why would a person cross a road in the middle of active traffic and walk into a cycle lane without looking when there are two junctions at either end no more than 50 metres either way both with pedestrain crossings and with no way to leave the road but at these junctions\crosing points, just for you I can assure you it was not raining so they dont even have that excuse?

however Im sorry you must have this thread confused with another thread about cycling, this is about motorbikes using bus lanes and this isn't really the place for this discussion there might be another thread somewhere else that deals with that issue!

Run_to_da_hills

Rob_l wrote: »

Im sorry you must have this thread confused with another thread about cycling.

Also I dont see how I can take advice on proper road usage from a person who advocates breaking road traffic laws because it is a bit rainy!

At least if I hit a third party irrespective of whose in the wrong I show remorse.

Rob_l

Run_to_da_hills wrote: »

At least if I hit a third party irrespective of whose in the wrong I show remorse.

Is this all you have?

That thread was in the heat of the moment, have you read my posts since in this thread I replied to quint!
I have never defended my actions in this thread nor do I feel the need to do so now, they are not for discussion here.

Also I dont think this has anything to do with the discussion at hand you are now just annoyed that i called you up on illegal driving practises and are determined to belittle me at any cost in retribution.

Bravo sir

Quint

Rob_l wrote: »

I never brought that into the discussion, you did! So your new found innocence on why this is being discussed is most amazing.
http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showpost.php?p=61255168&postcount=29

So when you tell me what it has to do with the discussion I will give you, your own answer back!

I used it to point out your selfish attitude towards road users, you didn't seem to care that you hurt a girl crossing the road purely because you thought you were in the right. You're the one who somehow thought the motorbikes in cycle lanes part of it was relevent to this debate with this:

In fact that old thread also highlights the greater danger posed by motor cyclists using the cycle lane, suppossing i had been a motorcyclist and hit that same woman what would her potential chances for serious injury have been then, increased or decreased?

Rob_l wrote: »

please re-read this thread I have never offered any stats claiming it was more dangerous, I have simply bemoaned motorcylcists attitude of thats not the way it should be so i'll ignore that law.

So all reports point to it being much safer to everyone, but you're still against it because you don't like their attitude?:rolleyes:

Rob_l wrote: »

I have never claimed i have an over riding problem i think there is some rules than would have to be clarified to protect cyclists, my main issue has been my point above.

Oh yeah, their "attitude"? I still don't know what this is.

Rob_l wrote: »

Well most pedestrian lights actually double as cycle pedestrian crossings, I believe. AS a result of the thread you brought into this discussion that very incident forced me to review the way I cycle around the city and to take stock of my attitude and general approach as a result I am a lot camler and in less of rush in such areas.

I also dont change my attitude becuase its raining I anticipate the rain and wear suitable clothes.

What has rain and clothes got to do with anything? Also, you have to stop at red lights, no idea what cycle pedestrian crossings have to do with it, do you think you can break them? I do (cycling), but I'm not the one that thinks every rule of road should be stuck to no matter how idiotic. Fair play to constantly reviewing your ways, you learn new stuff with every journey. Sometimes through mistakes, sometimes through mistakes of others, hopefully they're inexpensive lessons.

Anyway, final word on this cos I'm bored of it:
I'll continue driving in the bus lanes, giving a friendly wave to the guards as they allow me, making the roads in Dublin a safer place to be. I don't break the speed limits in the city at all, and always give cyclists a wide berth.
And, I'll constantly be looking out for cars making dodgy manouvers, because for us and cyclists thats the real danger.

faceman

The only way to settle the cyclist vs motorcyclist row is with a race. We'll all meet on College Green at 9am on Monday!

Motorcycle filtering is not always illegal. There was a court case a few years ago, where a biker and a car were involved in a collission. A motorist changed road position and smacked a biker who was filtering. The motorist didnt look before moving. However he was adamant that the biker was in the wrong and insisted to his insurers that it is taken to court as the biker should have been queuing in traffic like everyone else. The judge ruled in favour of the biker and was quoted on saying that the biker hardly bought a bike to queue in traffic like everyone else.

Anyway I digress.

Seriously though. Im surprised that bikers cant use the bus corridor. Im sure it will also effect couriers etc too making deliveries.

Ive always had an issue with this bus corridor. its fitting square pegs in round holes. Im a biker and a motorist and at one stage of my life was an avid cyclists so i have gears to grinds. In 2009 which such a massive spread of population in Dublin, I cant understand why so many buses have terminus in the city centre and so close to one another. I also cant understand why they all have to take the same route around college green.

markpb

faceman wrote: »

Seriously though. Im surprised that bikers cant use the bus corridor. Im sure it will also effect couriers etc too making deliveries.

I'm surprised at it too - if their stated aim is to reduce congestion for bus services, prohibiting motorbikes makes no sense. Perhaps they're designating College Green (the street) as a bus lane and since bus lanes prohibit motorbikes by default, it could be a legal problem which the council can't easily overcome.

faceman wrote: »

I cant understand why so many buses have terminus in the city centre and so close to one another. I also cant understand why they all have to take the same route around college green.

DB aren't happy with the situation either. There are a number of reasons for it. One is the congestion in the city centre which means cross city buses (which pass through the city centre) are terribly unreliable. Far side terminating buses (like the 13/A) relieve the city centre of terminii but the bus service is still affected by congestion in the city centre. (There's also the problem that people living at those terminii like Mountjoy aren't happy with their slice of suburbia being assaulted by double deckers.) The third option - near side terminus - isn't very popular because it doesn't bring people into the city centre and forces them to change buses to continue across the city.

The other problem is that DB have little or no control over the location of bus terminii. The council decide them and have, over the years, removed several of them (Abbey St, the quays, etc) forcing DB to concentrate more buses on a smaller number of streets. They could use easily Summerhill and Ringsend to avoid this but I don't know why they haven't.

Rob_l

Quint wrote: »

I used it to point out your selfish attitude towards road users, you didn't seem to care that you hurt a girl crossing the road purely because you thought you were in the right. You're the one who somehow thought the motorbikes in cycle lanes part of it was relevent to this debate with this:
.

I had to ponder why that thread would be brought up when it has no reason for inclusion in this discussion and seeing as this thread had already veered into M bikes using bus and or cycle lanes i thought it relevant seeing as it my had already been brought to the discussion by you.

Quint wrote: »

So all reports point to it being much safer to everyone, but you're still against it because you don't like their attitude?:rolleyes:
.

The attitude i referred to was the one in this thread of M bike riders doing something regardless of its legal status not wheter they should be allowed use bus lanes, I have already supported the only user's view who had a reasoned method modeled on the Amsterdam system i have never said I am completly against it.

Quint wrote: »

Oh yeah, their "attitude"? I still don't know what this is.
.

See post 18 this is the attitude of doing something irrelvant of its legality
http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showpost.php?p=61253719&postcount=18

Quint wrote: »

What has rain and clothes got to do with anything?
.

That comment directly refers to post 21 see the link
http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showpost.php?p=61254354&postcount=21

Quint wrote: »

Also, you have to stop at red lights, no idea what cycle pedestrian crossings have to do with it, do you think you can break them? I do (cycling), but I'm not the one that thinks every rule of road should be stuck to no matter how idiotic. Fair play to constantly reviewing your ways, you learn new stuff with every journey. Sometimes through mistakes, sometimes through mistakes of others, hopefully they're inexpensive lessons.

Anyway, final word on this cos I'm bored of it:
I'll continue driving in the bus lanes, giving a friendly wave to the guards as they allow me, making the roads in Dublin a safer place to be. I don't break the speed limits in the city at all, and always give cyclists a wide berth.
And, I'll constantly be looking out for cars making dodgy manouvers, because for us and cyclists thats the real danger.

On the dangers being cars I will agree, I have no major issue with a proposal to opening bus lanes to M bikes but that would have to be something done with cyclists in mind, much as had been suggested in this post http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showpost.php?p=61257583&postcount=45 and which I have already referenced.

Quint

Can't help it:D

Rob_l wrote: »

I had to ponder why that thread would be brought up when it has no reason for inclusion in this discussion and seeing as this thread had already veered into M bikes using bus and or cycle lanes i thought it relevant seeing as it my had already been brought to the discussion by you.

I answered this 2 or 3 times now.

Rob_l wrote: »

The attitude i referred to was the one in this thread of M bike riders doing something regardless of its legal status not wheter they should be allowed use bus lanes, I have already supported the only user's view who had a reasoned method modeled on the Amsterdam system i have never said I am completly against it.

Still of the opinion of Legal=right, regardless of what various reports or guards say and peoples safety? You never said if you stop at those red pedestrian lights on your bicycle.

Rob_l wrote: »

See post 18 this is the attitude of doing something irrelvant of its legality
http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showpost.php?p=61253719&postcount=18

Same as above, Still of the opinion of Legal=right, regardless of what various reports or guards say and peoples safety? You never said if you stop at those red pedestrian lights on your bicycle.
God help your daughter on her 17th birthday. I assume you would never hit someone robbing from a granny on the street because it's illegal to hit them. And you were perfectly happy for that serial rapist to be let out of jail a while ago because he served his time in compliance to the law. After all, the law is always right!

Rob_l wrote: »

That comment directly refers to post 21 see the link
http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showpost.php?p=61254354&postcount=21

That wasn't me.

Rob_l wrote: »

On the dangers being cars I will agree, I have no major issue with a proposal to opening bus lanes to M bikes but that would have to be something done with cyclists in mind, much as had been suggested in this post http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showpost.php?p=61257583&postcount=45 and which I have already referenced.

Will segerated bus lanes make a difference? Personally, i like the way it is, guards waving us on in the bus lanes and no one cares except the dublin cycling campaign, who the guards ignore on this matter.

Rob_l

Quint wrote: »

Same as above, Still of the opinion of Legal=right, regardless of what various reports or guards say and peoples safety? You never said if you stop at those red pedestrian lights on your bicycle.
God help your daughter on her 17th birthday. I assume you would never hit someone robbing from a granny on the street because it's illegal to hit them. And you were perfectly happy for that serial rapist to be let out of jail a while ago because he served his time in compliance to the law. After all, the law is always right!

These are not valid comparissions, but firstly so you know if I see someone hiting or attacking someone else I think I am allowed to use reasonable force to deter them from their illegal activity.

However these are not really justified nor worth me responding to each one individually and if this is your reasoned argument or even similiar in any way to a case you might present to the DCC then i see no reason why they would listen to any proposal you or any other motor biker\s may have. In fact this is insulting in the highest to debase an argument by attempting to in some way insinuate that i am promoting rape, or attacks on the elderly.

I have never once condoned attacks on the old, nor rape, i have never promoted any kind of illegal behaviour in fact i have been promoting adherence to the Laws of the land which are created for our safety and general well being.

ardmacha

who the guards ignore on this matter.

the Guards largely ignore any campaign for actual law enforcement.

This should be a bus and cycle lane, individual motor transport, whether motorbike or taxi should not be allowed.

faceman

faceman wrote: »

The only way to settle the cyclist vs motorcyclist row is with a race. We'll all meet on College Green at 9am on Monday!

If it's a moped or a scooter I'm game!