So, what you playing at the mo? Retro Edition

Myrddin

johnny_ultimate wrote: »

Also have made a start on 999 sequel Virtue's Last Reward

I enjoyed 999, but it became frustrating trying to get some of the different endings. Some of the endings require a choice or decision that would never occur to you would change the game. I think I got most of them & them it just got too frustrating.

I thought the sequel was getting a Western release, was that the case at one point?

CiDeRmAn

Andrew76 wrote: »

Personally, I wouldn't class Einhander or Radiant Silvergun old school at all, way too recent. R-Type, Image Fight, Raiden and that ilk are old school to me - and better games.

Einhander is one of the most impressive Shmups on consoles, it's genesis, from a company that made line dancing sims, sorry, I mean Final Fantasy games is remarkable.
It's full of character and one of the few polygonal games of the 90's that still stands up, visually.
Radiant Silvergun, I prefer the misery of Ikaruga myself, but we are slipping back to the "what is retro" argument/debate, Radiant Silvergun was released in 98 on a console that most here consider retro at this point, the Saturn, it must qualify as a retro title itself!

johnny_ultimate

EnterNow wrote: »

I enjoyed 999, but it became frustrating trying to get some of the different endings. Some of the endings require a choice or decision that would never occur to you would change the game. I think I got most of them & them it just got too frustrating.

The one thing they at least offer in the sequel is a 'branching path' diagram, allowing you to skip to chapters just before 'big decisions' need to be made. Handy. Although yeah I got bored with the structure of the first game long before I got to the 'true' endings.

I thought the sequel was getting a Western release, was that the case at one point?

It was out well before Christmas, courtesy of Rising Star!

Retr0gamer

EnterNow wrote: »

I enjoyed 999, but it became frustrating trying to get some of the different endings. Some of the endings require a choice or decision that would never occur to you would change the game. I think I got most of them & them it just got too frustrating.

I thought the sequel was getting a Western release, was that the case at one point?

It got a US and EU release, it's just thin on the ground. HMV stocked it... so you'll have a tough time finding it now. Still available online.

johnny_ultimate

The Vita version was the only one I saw in shops, 3DS one only seemed available online. Thought it would have been t'other way round!

Myrddin

johnny_ultimate wrote: »

The one thing they at least offer in the sequel is a 'branching path' diagram, allowing you to skip to chapters just before 'big decisions' need to be made. Handy.

That was the one thing thats missing from the first game really, the 'big decision moments' are a complete mystery a lot of the time. Your standing in a corridor with a room to the left & a room to the right. Choose the left room & you get one ending later on in the game, choose the right, & you get a different ending. And its not as if you wouldn't be going into both rooms anyway, which one was first in one case changed the ending

Andrew76

Retr0gamer wrote: »

Well I suppose I should paint everyone with the same brush but I do notice a lot of bullet hell players looking in disdain at games that aren't bullet hell. Radiant Silvergun was considered the best example of the genre when I was following shmup games over 10 years ago, there were a few that said it was overrated but still a great game. However now there's a lot of people saying it's flat out crap compared to bullet hell games. I feel these people expect silvergun to be a bullet hell (and idiots in the gaming press love to call it a bullet hell shooter) when it isn't so even comparing the two is wrong. And it's not just games like radiant silvergun, I've seen them dismiss stuff like R-type and Gradius. For some reason they all love Raiden though.

Whatever about their silly slating of RS, its easy to love Raiden.

It looks gorgeous, sounds awesome, the gameplay is simple yet it's proper balls hard. How many folk here can clear the first level on one life without using bombs? Old school challenge ftw. Ofc I'm biased, but it is a great shooter.

o1s1n

Radiant Silvergun is a masterclass in shmups. I'm not too fond of the Xbox Live release though, there's something off about it.

That and Souky are just in a league of their own I think. Miles ahead of modern bullet hell games.

But yeah, can't beat Raiden. I still think Raiden II is my favourite Shmup of all time. They're just something really likeable about the whole series.

I know I've said it before, but bullet hell games do make the player look better than they are. It's the hit box size, it's like a feckin needle point.

Try playing something like In The Hunt where it's like you're navigating a bus through bullet patterns. Not easy at all.

On the subject of Virtues Last Reward, I have it, it's an amazing game, but man am I **** at the puzzles. Funnily enough, I'm stuck on a puzzle in the 'Pantry'

Andrew76

o1s1n wrote: »

...
On the subject of Virtues Last Reward, I have it, it's an amazing game, but man am I **** at the puzzles. Funnily enough, I'm stuck on a puzzle in the 'Pantry'

Get the butler to solve it no?

Retr0gamer

Raiden 1 and 2 are real no nonsense or gimmicks shmups and they do it brilliantly.

Toothpaste laser forever!

The Last Bandit

Meh bullet hell, bullet schmell... Try Moon Cresta for a good 'ol shooter.

CiDeRmAn

Retr0gamer wrote: »

Raiden 1 and 2 are real no nonsense or gimmicks shmups and they do it brilliantly.

Toothpaste laser forever!

Raiden DX is my favourite of the lot.
Also, the IOS collection of Raiden titles is amazing on the iCade, next Beers I'll bring it along!

o1s1n

Raiden DX is indeed the best. I just have a certain soft spot for Raiden II. Bought The Raiden Project back in the PS1 days and played the hell out of it

Burkey0

After about 5,000 tries I don't think I'll ever like Secret of Evermore. Secret of Mana on the other hand...

To be fair, the soundtrack of both have great merit, some of the atmospheric sounds of Evermore are really impressive. And Mana has one of the best OSTs there's ever been

OwaynOTT

Burkey0 wrote: »

After about 5,000 tries I don't think I'll ever like Secret of Evermore. Secret of Mana on the other hand...

To be fair, the soundtrack of both have great merit, some of the atmospheric sounds of Evermore are really impressive. And Mana has one of the best OSTs there's ever been

Love secret of mana. I am a bit biased towards it however as it was one of the few titles I had for my Snes.
They rally should of called Evermore something else, secret gives it an unwelcome connection to Mana which is completely different really. Graphics are similar and they share the ring menu but that's it really.
Isn't also seen as why mana 2 wasn't released in the west?

Burkey0

OwaynOTT wrote: »

Love secret of mana. I am a bit biased towards it however as it was one of the few titles I had for my Snes.
They rally should of called Evermore something else, secret gives it an unwelcome connection to Mana which is completely different really. Graphics are similar and they share the ring menu but that's it really.
Isn't also seen as why mana 2 wasn't released in the west?

I agree with just about all you say

Apparently people rag on Evermore for being the game that "we got" (or should I say the US and then ourselves got) instead of Seiken Densetsu 3 but apparently SD3 was in need of much work to iron out glitches and little bugs before a release out of Japan would have been considered. Plus it would have had a lengthy translation for the different story paths - far better than the job in Mana! Although in fairness to poor old Ted Woolsey he had only a month to do it with a fixed font width, leading to spacing issues and loads of text having to be stripped down to fit a few boxes.

According to what I've read online, if any game was given the nod over SD3 it would have actually been Chrono Trigger, which received near universal praise, so the fans were happy anyway! (note that Evermore wasn't released in Japan). Of course, Chrono Trigger being released anyway won't have done much good for SNES PAL gamers at the time :rolleyes: At least we have a fairly good Chrono Trigger DS port now. Meanwhile SD3 still seems left in the past completely, and still has never left Japan. Pity, it's a triffic game

To be honest, it was only fairly recently I even knew Evermore was released in PAL regions

Retr0gamer

1up have written and researched the whole Evermore being the cause of SD3 staying in the West and found it to be a complete fallacy. SD3 wasn't released in the West because of two reasons. First there was a tonne of text to translate, although not enough that Square would over look it for a Western release. The second reason is that the original game used some crazy compression just to get all the text and data to fit on the cart. A lot of text combined with it being a programmers nightmare sealed the deal on that one. The fan translation took forever and that team that did it said it was the toughest programming they ever had to do to reverse the compression to get at the text data and then reverse it to input the translated text with a new font.

Evermore was a separate endeavor by Square USA that had nothing to do with trying to make up for the lack of SD3.

Also a something interesting came up in the HG101 forums yesterday. Anyone notice how the main character and girl from mana look similar to chrono and marle? Well apparently mana and chrono trigger were one and the same game at one point:

http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showpost.php?p=46320034&postcount=12399

OwaynOTT

I did say 'seen as' , I never said I thought it was. I read a few of those articles also.

I just think naming it Secret of Evermore was a really more marketing decision, whomever came up with it.
Am I right in saying that it was also scraped because there was talk of a secret of mana for the n64 or was it the Snes cd add-on?
Or am I getting secret of mana and earthbound mixed up?
I think I am actually. Secret of Mana was seriously cut because it was originally meant to be released as a cd game and there was a Earthbound scheduled for the n64 but not followed through and that's why the west never got mother 3.
I answered my own question there. Bit of a pointless post. Ah well who ya gonna call?

Burkey0

Yeah all kinds of cues were taken from Mana, even the font of the title mostly. And the USP of the Ring Menu of course (could make a case for setting the AI of your partner as well, although Mana had a superior grid system whereas Evermore's was more simple). Probably the reason why most including myself just aren't arsed with playing through it, when there's the presence of something that plays similarly and is better, probably by far. Do appreciate the effort behind it though. Actually one of the programmers or designers was posting on GameFAQs a couple years back

And then what's happened to Mana since doesn't bear thinking about x(

Retr0gamer

Mother 3 was in development for the N64 DD then moved to the N64 before they decided to scrap it, Itoi thought the N64 graphics didn't do the game justice. The GBA version is pretty much the same game with minor alterations and in gorgeous 2D. It most likely didn't get released because it was a very late GBA release it came out well after the DS was launched and by the time it launched in the West fully translated the GBA would have been dead. A damn shame.

Burkey0

Retr0gamer wrote: »

Mother 3 was in development for the N64 DD then moved to the N64 before they decided to scrap it, Itoi thought the N64 graphics didn't do the game justice. The GBA version is pretty much the same game with minor alterations and in gorgeous 2D. It most likely didn't get released because it was a very late GBA release it came out well after the DS was launched and by the time it launched in the West fully translated the GBA would have been dead. A damn shame.

The planned final boss and accompanying sequence was actually toned down in emotion and tragedy from the planned N64 to the final GBA version, which is saying something

I do prefer Earthbound to Mother 3 tbh, although both have become heavily overrated by the faithful

Was playing neo geo world cup 98 last night for about 2 hours with a friend,
absolutely class game.None of the other football games can touch it.

Los Lobos

urbanledge wrote: »

Was playing neo geo world cup 98 last night for about 2 hours with a friend,
absolutely class game.None of the other football games can touch it.

You haven't played sensible soccer so

hows it goin Dave

Los Lobos

Los Lobos wrote: »

You haven't played sensible soccer so

hows it goin Dave

Alrite cuz,
call into me and we'll have a few games of both,(I beat you in either:D)

I think I played the worst game on MAME last night.
Anyone every play the Exterminator?Shocking

Los Lobos

urbanledge wrote: »

Alrite cuz,
call into me and we'll have a few games of both,(I beat you in either:D)

you can try

o1s1n

Spent hours playing Phantasy Star IV last night.

Fought my way up to and through the final stage, defeated the bosses first two forms - died on the final one.

You know when you have your HP all mapped out, he'll have his turn and take at most X amount, so you can get X rounds of hits in before healing everyone etc.

Of course, the bastard went and stuck in an extra attack and ****ed up my whole plan.

It was a real shame as I'd gotten through so much of the game in one sitting, it would have been amazing to finish it off in one go!

Retr0gamer

I've been playing it loads myself. Got to the Air Castle which was a nice nod to Phantasy Star 1. Had to laugh at the musk cats, there was a really great joke there that most people would think was a bad translation. One of them says they are able to get the top off a bottle which just seems weird. However in PS1 one of the characters in your party is a musk cat who's owner has been turned to stone. He has the antidote around his neck but can't get it open due to his lack of opposable thumbs.

I'm really enjoying it, it's a great RPG with a really fast pace just like FFIV (which apparently heavily influenced it). I'm playing Chrono Trigger at the same time and I've changed my mind a bit I think CT is a bit better.

o1s1n

Ah, the Air Castle. I found that to be the hardest dungeon in the game. Once you level up a bit it's grand, but at the level I first entered, the boss was really tough.

I've noticed a lot of things throughout the game that appear to be nods to previous titles. Wish I'd have played through the series when I was younger and had the time.

Chrono Trigger is far more polished, but I'm finding the story in PS IV better. I'd say just wait until you reach the end before making any more decisions, there's a lot more content there after the Air Castle.

Retr0gamer

Speaking of Phantasy Star I took today off from making my game demo to play some Phantasy Star Online. Had some luck playing with some very high level people and zoomed up levels. Then I got what is known as noobs luck. I found one of the strongest wands in the game from a random drop from the boss. Won't have the stats to equip that for a while. Then was playing with more randomers and got another random drop present, everyone crowded around to ask what it was. Truns out to be one of the best swords in the game. They went mad trying to trade me for it. Traded it for a load of very high level gear. Then while playing with them some more I got another random drop present and what was inside, that same sword with almost the same stats.

Retr0gamer

Just got my ass kicked by the first boss in the air castle in PS IV. Beat him in the end but only had one character left. Hope it doesn't get tougher!