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is it fair to have family of Simon Mcginley housed by the HSE or social welfare

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    #32
    enry
    Registered Users Posts: 235 ✭✭enry


    Chinafoot wrote: »
    Hang on a second now. Where did they condone it? He's their family, they probably think it's their duty to put up a united front. The mother is obviously mentally unwell and the wife is most likely distraught. Perhaps they don't know what to do? Maybe he's convinced them it's not true. You can't really take the simplistic view of "she called him a good man so she obviously thinks what he did is fine."

    His family didn't rape anyone and I find it disgusting that you want them essentially punished for what he did.

    You feel sorry for a women who married a man who had previously been convicted of raping someone.

    And the reason I asked about whether or not he is a member of the traveling community is simple down to the fact that the deep and sometimes misunderstood culture of such people is very family orientated and therefore it may explain the reason why his mother was adamant that her son was innocent.

    Personally I think that the traveling community adds much to our society

    anyway way did you ask?


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    #33
    Chinafoot
    Closed Accounts Posts: 9,894 ✭✭✭Chinafoot


    BennyLava wrote: »
    It's not really relevant at all

    but what is relevant is that you have 2 women looking after small children who think a multiple rapist is "a good man"

    seriously Social Services should take the kids into care, surely ist abuse to raise kids to think rape is ok


    I really really doubt that they think rape is ok. Seriously. Since we're all just making assumptions I'll make one that seems far more plausible than yours...I personally reckon these two women are saying he's innocent. Maybe he's convinced them he is or maybe they're trying to convince themselves. It's not all that rare for families of convicted rapists/murderers to proclaim their innocence despite what the jury says.


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    #34
    Chinafoot
    Closed Accounts Posts: 9,894 ✭✭✭Chinafoot


    enry wrote: »
    You feel sorry for a women who married a man who had previously been convicted of raping someone.

    I'm sorry but where did I say I feel sorry for her? I don't see those words written anywhere. I am saying however that it's unfair to say she condones what he did or thinks rape is ok.

    As for marrying someone previously convicted of rape. He could have convinced her he was innocent. Why is that so hard to believe?


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    #35
    jayteecork
    Site Banned Posts: 5,676 ✭✭✭jayteecork


    Is the estate Bryanstown by any chance?

    When I was a kid my family lived in the estate there.


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    #36
    BennyLava
    Closed Accounts Posts: 205 ✭✭BennyLava


    If she still stands by a man with multiple convictions for rape, and is convinced he is innocent, you really need to question her mental abilities.

    Serious questions need to be asked about her abilities to raise kids, what sort of example, values is she setting for them

    He's a violent criminal, it's morally wrong to leave children in a situation where they are exposed to people like him


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    #37
    Chinafoot
    Closed Accounts Posts: 9,894 ✭✭✭Chinafoot


    BennyLava wrote: »
    If she still stands by a man with multiple convictions for rape, and is convinced he is innocent, you really need to question her mental abilities.

    Serious questions need to be asked about her abilities to raise kids, what sort of example, values is she setting for them

    He's a violent criminal, it's morally wrong to leave children in a situation where they are exposed to people like him

    Oh I agree. Thankfully he's gone away for quite a while now so those kids won't be exposed to him for now. The point of this thread is whether or not the rapist's family should be allowed live where they are at the moment. The OP is assuming it's paid for by the state, nobody knows that, and the OP is also claiming that because the family have said "he's a good man" they must then condone it and think that rape is ok. I'm simply saying I believe it's a lot more complicated than that.

    As for leaving kids in situations like this...take a walk down by Tara Street train station at any time of the day or not and take a look at the amount of people off their heads on drink and drugs who have babies in buggies with them. There are a lot of kids in situations like this and I agree that social welfare need to do a lot more for them.


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    #38
    BennyLava
    Closed Accounts Posts: 205 ✭✭BennyLava


    criminality will breed criminality,

    should the families of criminals be supported/ housed by the state, in one word no

    social entitlements should come with social responsibilities


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    #39
    enry
    Registered Users Posts: 235 ✭✭enry


    BennyLava wrote: »
    criminality will breed criminality,

    should the families of criminals be supported/ housed by the state, in one word no

    social entitlements should come with social responsibilities


    could not agree more.

    also in my opinion the children should be taken from the mother no questions asked


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    #40
    My name is URL
    Registered Users Posts: 25,067 ✭✭✭✭My name is URL


    enry wrote: »
    could not agree more.

    also in my opinion the children should be taken from the mother no questions asked

    I'm sure social services will be looking into the situation.

    I don't agree that families with criminals in them should have the kids removed as a rule though, thats a bit draconian

    and stopping their state benefits is hardly going to stop the committing crime


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    #41
    TwoShedsJackson
    Closed Accounts Posts: 9,438 ✭✭✭TwoShedsJackson


    Personally I think that the traveling community adds much to our society

    What exactly do you think the travelling community adds to our society which is beneficial?


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    #42
    BennyLava
    Closed Accounts Posts: 205 ✭✭BennyLava


    If families of criminals can be shown to actively support the state in the arrest and punishment of the criminals, then there is no reason to remove their benefits
    On the other hand, if they don't then why should the state support them.

    If you introduce collective responsibility to a family or even an area, it encourages more social order

    By the way I firmly believe in one rule for all, irrespective of who or where they are from


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    #43
    Oh The Humanity
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,324 ✭✭✭Oh The Humanity


    TwoShedsJackson wrote: »
    What exactly do you think the travelling community adds to our society which is beneficial?

    They once kindly took my old fridge away for €20 saving me from the odious task of chucking it on the motorway verge myself.


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    #44
    aDeener
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,487 ✭✭✭aDeener


    enry wrote: »
    I dont know where his children should live but after seeing his mother on T.V the other night. I would suggest that the best place for her to live would be somewhere in the middle of the Irish sea.

    Just wondering is Mcginley a member of the travelling community.

    you obviously didnt see a picture of him


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    #45
    aDeener
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,487 ✭✭✭aDeener


    TwoShedsJackson wrote: »
    What exactly do you think the travelling community adds to our society which is beneficial?

    na tincéirí have caused nothing but hardship in my local community, every one of them - yes you bleeding hearts - every one of them have been/are involved in criminal/anti social behaviour


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    #46
    Pygmalion
    Closed Accounts Posts: 5,082 ✭✭✭Pygmalion


    Yes, McGinley IS a member of the travelling community.

    His mother stated that the old woman wouldn't have been raped if she was put in a home by her family, and pretty much blamed them for it.
    So clearly she doesn't think the rape didn't happen, she just chooses to blame the victim rather than her son, a model citizen I think you'll all agree.


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    #47
    My name is URL
    Registered Users Posts: 25,067 ✭✭✭✭My name is URL


    aDeener wrote: »
    na tincéirí have caused nothing but hardship in my local community, every one of them - yes you bleeding hearts - every one of them have been/are involved in criminal/anti social behaviour

    The fact that they're travelers seems to be anti-social as far as you're concerned.

    The travelers that live in and around my area have being nothing but civil to me in the past

    I'm not saying they're all saints, far from it.. but you're just projecting your hate of an ethnic group, regardless of fact


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    #48
    aDeener
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,487 ✭✭✭aDeener


    My name is URL wrote: »
    The fact that they're travelers seems to be anti-social as far as you're concerned.

    The travelers that live in and around my area have being nothing but civil to me in the past

    I'm not saying they're all saints, far from it.. but you're just projecting your hate of an ethnic group, regardless of fact

    please tell me where i said that, i said in my area, which is fact as they all have the convictions which prove it so


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    #49
    My name is URL
    Registered Users Posts: 25,067 ✭✭✭✭My name is URL


    aDeener wrote: »
    please tell me where i said that, i said in my area, which is fact as they all have the convictions which prove it so

    Well if thats really true then I appologise

    Usually when someone says "every one of them" and uses the term "bleeding hearts" in the one sentence its a generalisation, and shows that a person is dead-set against a particular group rather than the individuals


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    #50
    5oaksdrogheda
    Closed Accounts Posts: 21 ✭5oaksdrogheda


    Pygmalion wrote: »
    Yes, McGinley IS a member of the travelling community.

    His mother stated that the old woman wouldn't have been raped if she was put in a home by her family, and pretty much blamed them for it.
    So clearly she doesn't think the rape didn't happen, she just chooses to blame the victim rather than her son, a model citizen I think you'll all agree.


    Well i for one certainly do agree. nice to know i hadnt lost all sense of reality after all.


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    #51
    kathy2
    Registered Users Posts: 153 ✭✭kathy2


    I'd love to know what travellers add to society.

    There was a traveller girl in my class at school she went on to marry her own first cousin. They had at least 6 children 2 of whom are blind and one deaf. The others are all a bit strange looking and none can be educated. Thats just one family, that girls brother is a danger to society.
    No member of her family have ever worked and there is no visible means to provide all the things they have.

    My experiences of travellers have all been negative, so of course my view is negative.

    If filling the Hospitals and CMH, and prisons helps society then they have done a great job and can stop now.


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    #52
    Kat Slater
    Closed Accounts Posts: 82 ✭✭Kat Slater


    There are decent members of the travelling community but my experience of them in general has not been positive.

    In response to the OP, the kids shouldn't be left on the street with nowhere to live so they have to be housed, but there are serious questions to be asked about the mother's ability to look after kids. A quick Google reveals some interesting insights from someone who lived 6 doors down from McGinley in Monaghan.

    Unfortunately the kids will more than likely cause havoc when they are older and be another scourge to the system. They certainly won't get any good example from their scumbag mother and grandmother.


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    #53
    johnathan woss
    Closed Accounts Posts: 410 ✭✭johnathan woss


    How much does the travelling community cost Ireland every year ?

    (In total, obviously there are some good apples).


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    #54
    enry
    Registered Users Posts: 235 ✭✭enry


    johnathan woss wrote: »
    How much does the travelling community cost Ireland every year ?

    (In total, obviously there are some good apples).

    I think your right probably costing us a load of money every year. Maybe board snip should have proposed doing away with them


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    #55
    Run_to_da_hills
    Closed Accounts Posts: 20,009 ✭✭✭✭Run_to_da_hills


    My name is URL wrote: »
    According to the Irish constitution its fair, and we chose to live by that constitution so unless you're planning a revolt theres not alot to say about it
    Vote YES for Lisbon and all that will change. :pac:


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    #56
    thelordofcheese
    Closed Accounts Posts: 4,368 ✭✭✭thelordofcheese


    Run_to_da_hills wrote: »
    Vote YES for Lisbon and all that will change. :pac:

    no it won't. Back in your box.


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    #57
    peasant
    Registered Users Posts: 17,819 ✭✭✭✭peasant


    let's introduce this tried and tested law, shall we?

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sippenhaft


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    #58
    Tha Gopher
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,799 ✭✭✭Tha Gopher


    johnathan woss wrote: »
    How much does the travelling community cost Ireland every year ?

    (In total, obviously there are some good apples).

    At the height of the economic boom 88% of adult travellers were unemployed. It is disgusting that one cent of my tax ever went to these people. McGinley commited his crimes drunk on taxpayer bought alcohol (either that or stolen money, could be either tbh)

    The funny thing is most of the bleeding hearts on boards loathe travellers as a group and are suspicious of them, but the "right" thing to do is pretend otherwise. On a thread about the Roma forced out of Belfast one of the PC lads on the Politics forum went on multiple trolling little tangents while ignoring me on four occasions when I asked whether he disliked Roma. Pathetic.


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    #59
    Tha Gopher
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,799 ✭✭✭Tha Gopher


    peasant wrote: »
    let's introduce this tried and tested law, shall we?

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sippenhaft

    Quite ironic that the Israelis do similar in the occupied areas these days to families/ neighbours of millitants.


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    #60
    thelordofcheese
    Closed Accounts Posts: 4,368 ✭✭✭thelordofcheese


    Tha Gopher wrote: »
    The funny thing is most of the "i'm living in the REAL world" types on boards are scared of travellers as a group and lash out at them from the comfort of their PCs, but in reality are scared little kids who don't know how to deal with the world

    See, i can make total shit up too!

    isn't it fun....


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    #61
    asdasd
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,185 ✭✭✭asdasd


    You're missing my point. Where are these families supposed to live?

    They should live in Dalkey, Howth, Clontarf, BallsBridge, etc. let the Opion formers and "anti-racist" Establishment who attack everybody else for "racist" attitudes to Travelles, have to deal with some of this.
    Where did they condone it?

    I'll make one that seems far more plausible than yours...I personally reckon these two women are saying he's innocent

    Nope. They said to the family of the 80 year old victim that the old woman should have been in a home. They shouted this at the end of the trial. In any case the forensic evidence was overwhelming. you dont get to "believe" innocence on no evidence.
    His family didn't rape anyone and I find it disgusting that you want them essentially punished for what he did.


    His family abused the victims in court.


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