The thanks you get.

walshb

Dinter wrote: »

I can't say I see what's hyped about it.

Irish woman kidnapped. People hope she's returned.

As do I. And if I ever saw her, I would tell her to count her lucky stars and get the **** out of the **** hole; but I guarantee, should she be saved, it will be, "Oh, this isn't going to stop me, I am going to stay here for the long haul."

Quazzie

I'm really confused

Whats the issue here? The fact that she is Irish and therefore our press have reported on it? The fact that we wouldn't have heard about the situation, were it two Ugandan women because our press wouldn't have reported on it? Or is the issue that the woman in question is determined to help the people in that area, even at the point of risking her own life?

super_furry

All of the above. I think. Not sure why though.

togster

What is the problem here?

She's IRISH. So it has nothing to do with her skin colour.

She is a charity worker. She does a noble thing like volunteer and the usual cynics try and knock her.

For god sake Walshb, it must be a pain in the arse to be so cynical all the time.

togster

walshb wrote: »

As do I. And if I ever saw her, I would tell her to count her lucky stars and get the **** out of the **** hole; but I guarantee, should she be saved, it will be, "Oh, this isn't going to stop me, I am going to stay here for the long haul."

WTF is your problem?

K-9

walshb wrote: »

Dinter, valid point. It just seems to me that their "charity" work is causing issues and conflict
too. Many are not wanted and are resented for being there and this is causing further problems

Suppose we should just give up then.

FlutterinBantam

FlutterinBantam wrote: »

A few salient points if I may.....

Who are you, and what have you done with the Flutt?

Dinter

What is ironic is that whatever ransom is paid for her release will, in all probability, pay for more armaments resulting in more violence so in that respect walshb is correct in saying that having aid workers there may cause "more bloody harm than good"

togster

Dinter wrote: »

What is ironic is that whatever ransom is paid for her release will, in all probability, pay for more armaments resulting in more violence so in that respect walshb is correct in saying that having aid workers there may cause "more bloody harm than good"

All conjecture. What i do know is that many of these people have saved peoples lives. That's all that matters.

deadhead13

I'd be more concerned about the media attention given to a tree stump.

Quazzie

Dinter wrote: »

What is ironic is that whatever ransom is paid for her release will, in all probability, pay for more armaments resulting in more violence so in that respect walshb is correct in saying that having aid workers there may cause "more bloody harm than good"

So in your theory the "ransom" paid will be worth more to the kidnappers than the good work supplied to the innocent, by all of the aid workers combined? And therefore we should abandon our morales and abandon the innocent for fear that someday the terrorists might prosper from one of their missions to cause upheaval and chaos.

I just want to make sure I'm reading your post correctly before I laugh.

walshb

togster wrote: »

WTF is your problem?

Maybe I am cynical, but it's better than being so aggressive

togster

walshb wrote: »

Maybe I am cynical, though it's better than being so aggressive.

Apologies.

These people do great work in areas where you and others have forgotten about. They got of their arses and did something to help people in need.

Cynicism will ruin your life walshb. Fortunately for human kind some people see past skin colour and agenda and cynicism and go and do something rather than whinge about it.

walshb

Quazzie wrote: »

So in your theory the "ransom" paid will be worth more to the kidnappers than the good work supplied to the innocent, by all of the aid workers combined? And therefore we should abandon our morales and abandon the innocent for fear that someday the terrorists might prosper from one of their missions to cause upheaval and chaos.

I just want to make sure I'm reading your post correctly before I laugh.

Well some, and me included, think that western interference in these countries is actually
doing more harm than good.

togster

walshb wrote: »

Well some, and me included, think that western interference in these countries is actually
doing more harm than good.

Western interferance is the cause of many of these situations yes.

Western interferance adopts many forms.

Well meaning charity workers does not equate western interferance.

Quazzie

walshb wrote: »

Well some, and me included, think that western interference in these countries is actually
doing more harm than good.

I tend to disagree, and have no intentions of (or think its possible) trying to change your mind.

MizzLolly

Another wonderful thread by Walshb.

Dinter

Quazzie wrote: »

So in your theory the "ransom" paid will be worth more to the kidnappers than the good work supplied to the innocent, by all of the aid workers combined? And therefore we should abandon our morales and abandon the innocent for fear that someday the terrorists might prosper from one of their missions to cause upheaval and chaos.

I just want to make sure I'm reading your post correctly before I laugh.

:rolleyes:

Must use sarcasm tags.

walshb

MizzLolly wrote: »

Another wonderful thread by Walshb.

Thanks!

carlybabe1

walshb wrote: »

I know, but she's lucky, had there not been a western white woman with her, nobody
would have a clue

I wish you would stop making generalisations like that. The reason there is so much press coverage is because shes Irish, not because of her colour.
A case in point was the story of a black woman who was jailed in a foreign country because she was caught smuggling drugs, there was plenty of press coverage because her mother is living & studying here, and she too is black.
This prticular story is probably not making headlines in, say, australia, because there hasnt been australian victim involved.
Its patriotism not racism, thats keeping this in the news.

walshb

carlybabe1 wrote: »

I wish you would stop making generalisations like that. The reason there is so much press coverage is because shes Irish, not because of her colour.
A case in point was the story of a black woman who was jailed in a foreign country because she was caught smuggling drugs, there was plenty of press coverage because her mother is living & studying here, and she too is black.
This prticular story is probably not making headlines in, say, australia, because there hasnt been australian victim involved.
Its patriotism not racism, thats keeping this in the news.

I already admitted to that. I understand. But it's not just in Ireland that it
is making news. I just asked that if this woman wasn't a westerner and white, would it have made the news at all? Maybe it would have made the local Ugandan news, but I doubt any other country would give a toss.

Quazzie

walshb wrote: »

I already admitted to that. I understand. But it's not just in Ireland that it
is making news. I just asked that if this woman wasn't a westerner and white, would it have made the news at all? Maybe it would have made the local Ugandan news, but I doubt any other country would give a toss.

It would make the news in countries affected by it. i.e Uganda and Sudan. I'm assuming here but I think I'm correct in suggesting that gang murders in Limerick or Dublin don't make the press in Uganda, or Sudan, or even the UK for that matter. This has nothing to do with ethnicity, but is just purely down to what the press deems necessary to report on.

Dinter

Well tbh walshb you come across more angry at the media coverage of the kidnapping than you do at the fact that there was a necessity for that woman to be there doing charity work.

walshb

Well, the fact that every time someone turns on the tv or opens a paper we are hearing Africa this and Africa that and charity this and charity that, then surely the kidnapping of black African aid workers would be news to us? After all, we are being saturated with images of starving Africans every minute of the day. But, somehow I doubt it would ever be reported if there was no western connection.

One thing is certain, it's a damn great plug for GOAL!

togster

walshb wrote: »

I just asked that if this woman wasn't a westerner and white, would it have made the news at all?

Probably not. The media reports what the target audience is interested in.
In Ireland that is usually Irish related news stories. She is Irish and happens to be white ergo the interest. Plus she is a charity worker and that will be reported in various locations around the world, because most people can have empathy eith someone who does a selfless act for people who need it most.

BTW you went further and stated that these aid workers cause more harm than they do good. So this thread was not simply about race and the media.

I realise this is AH but please don't your own lack understanding detract from other peoples good work in a cynical world.

tbh

walshb wrote: »

Well some, and me included, think that western interference in these countries is actually
doing more harm than good.

is this something you know, or something you reckon? I should mention, I have a little second-hand experience on this matter*. This is obviously a situation you have evaluated, so I'm curious as to how you figured the cons outweigh the pros.

What harm have they been doing?

What is it that you think these organisations do?

Please note, as well, I'm asking you specific questions. I'm not really interested in your opinion, which you are entitled to of course. I'm just curious as to what your thought process was in coming to the conclusion that

walshb wrote: »

western interference in these countries is actually
doing more harm than good.

and the figures etc you used to come to that conclusion.



*member of my immediate family is an economist in the world bank, with responsibility for evaluating NGO performance

irelandrover

walshb wrote: »

I understand fully that because she is Irish and was kidnapped that it will make news here.
I just think also, that the fact she's a western and white woman, that this is hyped and that had she been an aid worker, black and African, NO news would have reported it.

It's not just in Ireland that this is being dished out!

I live in Holland and I had no idea until I opened this thread that an Irish woman had been kidnapped.

In All Fairness

I agree with most posters that this has nothing to do with race and the news coverage it has received is due to the Irish connection. However the OP's remarks as to whether Aid agencies do more harm than good are valid ones. My cousin was a senior operative for Goal for a few years and now works for the UN in a similar capacity. A real problem for the aid agencies is that they have to bribe the authorities to get the food through and this leads to a further stranglehold for the incumbent totalitarian regime. The black marketeers also often have to be paid as this is cheaper than losing convoys. He says it can be quite dispiriting at times especially when senior officials in these countries are ludicrously wealthy even by our standards. However there are still millions of people who desperately need the aid that does get through. I have a great respect for these people who risk their lives and give their time to help other human beings in need and if they can battle their frustration and cynicism and anger having been at the coalface we should be able to aswell. As a previous poster remarked the only other option is to give up. It is a difficult one.

Dinter

In All Fairness wrote: »

A real problem for the aid agencies is that they have to bribe the authorities to get the food through and this leads to a further stranglehold for the incumbent totalitarian regime.

So right. You know those battered pick ups you see in the movies with a couple of machine guns on the back and crewed by a couple of drugged up child soldiers.

Ever wonder why they're called technicals?

Tchaikovsky

Dinter wrote: »

crewed by a couple of drugged up child soldiers.

So that's who the 'black baby' money went to!