Foinse goes out of business

JC 2K3

It was a pretty crap paper. Meh, tbh. I support the Irish language, but wouldn't revere something just because it's in Irish.

kwestfan08

I think a lot of people who want to keep irish alive are only doing so as to have a kind of safety blanket scenario, like irish is here phew, now i'll get on with not speaking it. Like irish is not even the second most spoken language in Ireland these days on a daily basis in peoples homes. The government should definatly scale back its commitment to Tg4 IMO. What has it given us except hector, who wasnt even speaking proper irish ("tá mé as mo bhosca lads!.....etc) and reruns of mtv shows. Some of that ?25 million could be spent more wisely

An Fear Aniar

Purple Gorilla wrote: »

Sad It was a great tool for LC Irish!

If they had stopped forcing it on people in schools it might have had some chance, but they fúcked it up completely by doing that. Passing the buck to the children. Disaster.

The parents on the Aran islands speak Irish to the kids and the kids reply in English so.... guthanna in éag.


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thebiggestjim

My name is Mud wrote: »

I read this as Fonzie goes out of business.

AAAYYYYYYYYYYY

Me too

Run_to_da_hills

Take Irish out of the school curriculum and get the EU Parliament to ban it and it will soon flourish.

muckwarrior

To me language is like currency. The less there are the better.

amacachi

ejmaztec wrote: »

Ten full-time journalists are set to lose their jobs following a decision to close down Ireland's only Irish-language newspaper.

I can't believe it took 10 journalists working full time to put it together.

Riamfada

I honestly believe that in the past 10 years speaking of Irish has developed into a very middle class phenomenon. The rural answer to naming your children "Saibh" or "Oisin" and living in Blackrock.

It is however a cultural money drain. If something is not commonly accepted by the majority of the population as part of their culture then its obviously not that countries culture. Should we stop flogging a dead horse on this one? Most certainly

On a side not there are alot more Polish speakers in Ireland than Irish speakers. Id much prefer my children learned that!

delta_bravo

Delta Kilo wrote: »

Eh no. TG4 is not successful. Last year they were forced into revealing their accounts by TV3 who sued them in the EU courts. It revealed that they took in €25m in grants from the government and made, under their own steam, the massive sum of €3m. So that is essentially a loss of €22m.

It is time we stopped flogging this dead horse!

Didnt RTÉ lose €160 m last year? TV stations rarely make money, especially government funded ones. The standard of programming on TG4 is very good, especially their documentary and historical programming which easily outclass any similar recent attempts by RTE

upmeath

Grimes wrote: »

I honestly believe that in the past 10 years speaking of Irish has developed into a very middle class phenomenon. The rural answer to naming your children "Saibh" or "Oisin" and living in Blackrock.

I definitely don't believe it's class specific or geographically limited. More kids are being called Irish names across the board, end of.

Grimes wrote:

On a side not there are alot more Polish speakers in Ireland than Irish speakers. Id much prefer my children learned that!

I learned both! Poland will be the biggest construction market in Europe for the next 15-20 years when things pick up again, might as well mowie po Polsku! But I think our cultural identity, or if you don't identify with it then maybe our cultural heritage, should be preserved and promoted.

Riamfada

upmeath wrote: »

But I think our cultural identity, or if you don't identify with it then maybe our cultural heritage, should be preserved and promoted.

Yes but as an archaeologist may I point out that our cultural heritage is not shared by a large degree of our population and our modern cultural identity is even far less "traditional" irish. The "irish" heritage is that of white , middle class, suburban peoples . It strikes me the ignorance of almost all of my irish speaking friends (who speak irish on a daily basis irregardless of the presence of non-irish speakers) of any knoweldge of irish history or heritage other than the events on 1916 and the fact that Newgrage does something with the Sun. Of course im generalising from my own experience.

My personal experience with Irish speakers in UCD is that it is a very elitist preoccupation which has sadly done more damage to it for me than years of poor standard Dublin schooling. I would be more than happy to see the language decline to the remit of academics.

I agree that TG4 does have some very good historical programs but afaik are not the majority of these independent sound & vision productions? I may be wrong on that however.

edit: Ive also been told when asking about why people speak irish and are very miltant about its preservation is that alot of it harks back to anti-British sentiment despite having very limited knoweldge of irish history.

SarcasticFairy

Purple Gorilla wrote: »

Sad It was a great tool for LC Irish!

I hadn't heard of Foinse before the start of sixth year. I bought it pretty much every week for the year, for the 'Foinse sa Rang' section. In the beginning I did try to read some of the other stuff, but it took far too long for me to decipher what they were talking about, so I had to stop.

It is kind of sad really though.

dlofnep

Grimes wrote: »

Yes but as an archaeologist may I point out that our cultural heritage is not shared by a large degree of our population and our modern cultural identity is even far less "traditional" irish. The "irish" heritage is that of white , middle class, suburban peoples . It strikes me the ignorance of almost all of my irish speaking friends (who speak irish on a daily basis irregardless of the presence of non-irish speakers) of any knoweldge of irish history or heritage other than the events on 1916 and the fact that Newgrage does something with the Sun. Of course im generalising from my own experience.

Poppycock! So people have to be educated in the intricacies of Irish history before they can speak the language? And if they speak Irish in the presence of non-Irish speakers, so what? If that was the case, Irish would never get spoken. If I speak Irish to a friend and someone doesn't understand, I'll give them a brief translation of what we're discussing so they don't feel left out, and I think most people do this and if they are not - then they should, unless the conversation has nothing to do with them or is private.

And what in the holy bat-cakes does Newgrange have to do with anything?

Grimes wrote: »

edit: Ive also been told when asking about why people speak irish and are very miltant about its preservation is that alot of it harks back to anti-British sentiment despite having very limited knoweldge of irish history.

Nonsense. I'm the only person in my conversational group that's anyway Republicanally minded, but my reasons for speaking the language transcend politics. Like any other language enthusiasts, people have different reasons for learning it. Some don't want to see a fundamental part of our culture disappear and actively promote it to ensure it's not lost. Others, especially in the North learn it to re-affirm their culture, and where opposition parties try to block and language act attempts and their culture is infringed upon - it further gives rise to the language movement. If you tell someone that they can't eat their own cake, they will eat their own cake whether you like it or not!

For someone who lambasts people as ignorant - you've demonstrated yourself to equally ignorant.

I suppose the Welsh language movement has no substance either, right? Those "militant" about it's use, despite the language being actively discouraged using humiliation as a tool to stop it's use in school via the Welsh Knot. No merit in their movement I suppose?

Similarly, Irish was removed from schooling curriculum and as a teaching medium upon introduction of the National Schools. Once again, seeing the language actively discouraged from being used. Combined with the death of the majority of the Irish speakers in the famine saw the transformation of a bilingual Ireland, into an English speaking country.

So - So what if people want to bring back our language to the forefront of modern day Ireland? Big whoop! So what if people want to speak the language?

Riamfada

Oh you are entirely right and honestly I am geralising as a result of the bad experience I have had with Irish and Irish speakers. I am also going on what I have been told by Irish speakers in my experience. I just find it very hypocritical of alot of people to promote the Irish language without any regard for other aspects of their culture. I have no problem with people speaking the language but I do have a problem about being attacked because I do not support it, a bit like your post above.

Regarding what you say about bringing your language to the forefront of modern day Ireland. It is exactly that, your language and a minority language. Its not my language nor a large part of my heritage and I was born here, I resent it being forced upon me or costing taxpayers money simple because it is Constitutionally protected as being the first language of the country. I have to say again I have no problem with anyone speaking it at all.

dlofnep

Grimes wrote: »

Oh you are entirely right and honestly I am geralising as a result of the bad experience I have had with Irish and Irish speakers. I am also going on what I have been told by Irish speakers in my experience. I just find it very hypocritical of alot of people to promote the Irish language without any regard for other aspects of their culture. I have no problem with people speaking the language but I do have a problem about being attacked because I do not support it, a bit like your post above.

What other aspects of their culture? Dance, music? I'm failing to see the logic why someone who studies the Irish language automatically must study every other aspect of Irish culture by default? Although personally, I am keen an all aspects of Irish culture and history.

Grimes wrote: »

Regarding what you say about bringing your language to the forefront of modern day Ireland. It is exactly that, your language and a minority language. Its not my language nor a large part of my heritage and I was born here, I resent it being forced upon me or costing taxpayers money simple because it is Constitutionally protected as being the first language of the country. I have to say again I have no problem with anyone speaking it at all.

That's fine. If you have an issue with it, take it up with your local TD (preferably a FG one as they are anti-Irish) and try and get a referendum pushed on the language, and we'll see what the people of Ireland want. I'm comfortable in knowing that the majority of the people support the language.

scop

I actually don't think Irish people care not for Irish so much as Irish people care little for other languages.

Teach your kids Polish? What like the way we can all speak French, German and Spanish? Purlease.

If you want to save Irish do what the Europeans do: textbooks in the native language only, emphasis on discussion, grammar as secondary to communication, and give Irish some damn context (a place to speak it for example).

ejmaztec

scop wrote: »

I actually don't think Irish people care not for Irish so much as Irish people care little for other languages.

Teach your kids Polish? What like the way we can all speak French, German and Spanish? Purlease.

If you want to save Irish do what the Europeans do: textbooks in the native language only, emphasis on discussion, grammar as secondary to communication, and give Irish some damn context (a place to speak it for example).

Pornographic novels in Irish only would be the clincher. The lads would get down and dirty with the Irish language, and be fluent in no time.

scop

ejmaztec wrote: »

Pornographic novels in Irish only would be the clincher. The lads would get down and dirty with the Irish language, and be fluent in no time.

Well if you told a class of guys that on Friday they get to speak Irish with the girls from the school across the road that might be incentive.

An Fear Aniar

scop wrote: »

If you want to save Irish do what the Europeans do: textbooks in the native language only, emphasis on discussion, grammar as secondary to communication, and give Irish some damn context (a place to speak it for example).

No. No teaching it in schools. It kils it stone dead.

TG4 is good, continue that.

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dlofnep

An Fear Aniar wrote: »

No. No teaching it in schools. It kils it stone dead.

Disagree. The Gaelscoileanna have completely reinvigorated the language. If a subject was taught through Irish, along with conversational focused Irish classes - it would do quite the opposite.

Riamfada

dlofnep wrote: »

What other aspects of their culture? Dance, music? I'm failing to see the logic why someone who studies the Irish language automatically must study every other aspect of Irish culture by default? Although personally, I am keen an all aspects of Irish culture and history.

Im not saying that I think you are not really understanding me. Im just saying that people in my experience who use the "its part of my heritage and culture" to speak it and promote it show no futher interest in other areas of their culture. In my experience so im sure you will come back with an attack on that one.

Secondly as I have said I have no problem with people speaking it and have no interest in going to my local TD. Whats that got to do with anything. I find your arguments hollow and antagonising. It really is an experience I have had when having this discussion before. I find it intersting that while 93% of people support the language only 47% speak it.

In conclusion I will certainly be sending my children to an Irish school as Irish speakers recieve excellent extra assistance in academics and schooling in terms on financial aid and grades. Personally for me, Ill stick to my Anglo-Irish heritage

scop

An Fear Aniar wrote: »

No. No teaching it in schools. It kils it stone dead.

TG4 is good, continue that.

.

Plenty of countries teach far tougher languages to their kids in school. The Irish just have quite possibly the worst language curriculum in the developed world. All they have to do is copy directly the Dutch system.

scop

dlofnep wrote: »

Disagree. The Gaelscoileanna have completely reinvigorated the language. If a subject was taught through Irish, along with conversational focused Irish classes - it would do quite the opposite.

Exacto: speak first, chisel the grammar later.

upmeath

Grimes wrote: »

Yes but as an archaeologist may I point out that our cultural heritage is not shared by a large degree of our population and our modern cultural identity is even far less "traditional" irish. The "irish" heritage is that of white , middle class, suburban peoples . It strikes me the ignorance of almost all of my irish speaking friends (who speak irish on a daily basis irregardless of the presence of non-irish speakers) of any knoweldge of irish history or heritage other than the events on 1916 and the fact that Newgrage does something with the Sun. Of course im generalising from my own experience.

I often find the further you move away from Dublin the more of an appreciation of Irish culture and history people have. I'm living only 20 miles from Blanchardstown and here we have traditional music in pubs at least 5 nights a week, there's a Gaelscoil which isn't the preserve of elitists and soccer mom offspring (accommodated in an old engineering plant, so they're sending their kids there not because it's a plush place with central heating and full insulation, but because they want them to learn through the language) We have traditional meitheal festival every year, the Irish language is strong with a few businesses in the town bearing Irish signage instead of English. Rath Cairn is 8 miles out the road and each summer hundreds of kids from all over Meath from ages 8 upwards attend 3-week Irish language day courses, ensuring the strength of the language not just in the Meath Gaeltacht but outside and around it too.

Grimes wrote:

My personal experience with Irish speakers in UCD is that it is a very elitist preoccupation which has sadly done more damage to it for me than years of poor standard Dublin schooling. I would be more than happy to see the language decline to the remit of academics.

I'd have to agree, FnaG in UCD is a bit of a hotbed for West British tools trying to find Irishness. And Ra-heads. What a wonderful combination.

yourmano

I think it's really sad this happened, I'd gladly have paid more or subscribed. It was an invaluable paper not just for the language's sake but for local news for Gaeltacht people.

yourmano

An Fear Aniar, can't agree there. Lived in Aran for a few years and never answered in anything other than Irish. Just to clarify. And we were by far the rule rather than the exception.

jumpguy

The Gaeltacht business ARE subsidised, if anyone is dying to know by what state body, I'll get out my business book (even though I should know :rolleyes:). It's time the government put taxpayer's money somewhere else besides a dying language tbh. Like maybe opening a few closed hospital wards?

Posted this ages ago...

Irish is a dead language. Less and less people speak it, I know nobody who actively speaks it, nobody outside Ireland can understand it and a mediocre amount of people inside Ireland can hold a conversation in it. I think it should be thought in primary school MUCH better than the old system, then be optional in secondary school JC. Let the students put more effort in a language that'd actually going to prove more useful like French, German, Italian or Spanish.

dlofnep

jumpguy wrote: »

It's time the government put taxpayer's money somewhere else besides a dying language tbh.

But yet more and more people are speaking it every year. The language is alive, and is increasing in use across the Island. Hardly the definition of dying. Let the taxpayers decide if they want to fund the language or not.

An Fear Aniar

dlofnep wrote: »

Disagree. The Gaelscoileanna have completely reinvigorated the language. If a subject was taught through Irish, along with conversational focused Irish classes - it would do quite the opposite.

Disagree. It doesn't work. I know people who went to Gaelscoileanna and they speak English all the time.

It's time to try something new.

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dlofnep

An Fear Aniar wrote: »

Disagree. It doesn't work. I know people who went to Gaelscoileanna and they speak English all the time.

But yet I converse as Gaeilge to everyone I know who went to a Gaelscoil or studied Irish through other means. They always speak in Irish to me.

An Fear Aniar wrote: »

It's time to try something new.

I'm all ears.