Labour Saving and General Guntering

_Brian

Deleted User wrote: »

Thoughts on this as if it works it could save me a few headaches - namely having anything to do with my nemesis, a petrol water pump that refuses to work 100% of the time I really need it.

I often see farmers asking how to pump water, my own issue is often the sources of water on my farm are in low spots with no flow, ponds, lakes etc. If something lower tech works then I'd rather not be dicking around with engines, solar, or windmills.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AHJUl5wl9WI&t=3s

If the above gets water out of a pond or lake, the next question I'd have is would it then drive a ram pump to pump water uphill?

Doesn’t a ram pump need some pressure to operate it.

That system relies on a head height of maybe 6ft, plus yiur using the energy of that head height to draw water up into the barrel. If you had any hose length at all the friction in the pipe would stop it working.

emaherx

[Deleted User] wrote: »

Thoughts on this as if it works it could save me a few headaches - namely having anything to do with my nemesis, a petrol water pump that refuses to work 100% of the time I really need it.

I often see farmers asking how to pump water, my own issue is often the sources of water on my farm are in low spots with no flow, ponds, lakes etc. If something lower tech works then I'd rather not be dicking around with engines, solar, or windmills.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AHJUl5wl9WI&t=3s

If the above gets water out of a pond or lake, the next question I'd have is would it then drive a ram pump to pump water uphill?

On this forum Lisa we obey the laws of physics. Get/build a solar pump.

emaherx

emaherx wrote: »

On this forum Lisa we obey the laws of physics. Get/build a solar pump.

I think the barrel(s) will work

_Brian

_Brian wrote: »

Doesn’t a ram pump need some pressure to operate it.

That system relies on a head height of maybe 6ft, plus yiur using the energy of that head height to draw water up into the barrel. If you had any hose length at all the friction in the pipe would stop it working.

I don't think RP's require much in terms of pressure, I've asked a RPguy, see if he get's back to me or not. There are options once I can get water moving

emaherx

[Deleted User] wrote: »

I don't think RP's require much in terms of pressure, I've asked a RPguy, see if he get's back to me or not. There are options once I can get water moving

They may work, but will they provide the 5ft of head and 20 litres per min required to work a ram?

green daries

emaherx wrote: »

They may work, but will they provide the 5ft of head and 20 litres per min required to work a ram?

Just a thought would you be able to use some of the water from the ram pump to complement the water from the barrels to keep the flow up ....think I saw it somewhere else on the Internet

emaherx

green daries wrote: »

Just a thought would you be able to use some of the water from the ram pump to complement the water from the barrels to keep the flow up ....think I saw it somewhere else on the Internet

Personally I think this idea is in dreamland, but I would love to be proven wrong on it. Even if you could do anything remotely close to running a ram pump from that barrel siphon setup, then add the complexity of trying to recover the waste water from the ram to somehow aid the siphon, it would probably be as cheap and a lot more efficient and reliable to build a solar pump.


I see lots of marvelous free energy setups elsewhere on the internet also but I'll remain sceptical.

green daries

emaherx wrote: »

Personally I think this idea is in dreamland, but I would love to be proven wrong on it. Even if you could do anything remotely close to running a ram pump from that barrel siphon setup, then add the complexity of trying to recover the waste water from the ram to somehow aid the siphon, it would probably be as cheap and a lot more efficient and reliable to build a solar pump.


I see lots of marvelous free energy setups elsewhere on the internet also but I'll remain sceptical.

Ya definitely would be sceptical of some
Just from memory thought I saw it done think it was a big setup though anyway few years ago so as said solar panels are an easier option

patsy_mccabe

emaherx wrote: »

Personally I think this idea is in dreamland, but I would love to be proven wrong on it. Even if you could do anything remotely close to running a ram pump from that barrel siphon setup, then add the complexity of trying to recover the waste water from the ram to somehow aid the siphon, it would probably be as cheap and a lot more efficient and reliable to build a solar pump.


I see lots of marvelous free energy setups elsewhere on the internet also but I'll remain sceptical.

It's not free energy, if you still have height available on the water when it comes out of the ram pump. Say the height of water is 20 feet, 10 feet is used to drive the ram pump, then 10 feet is still there to take away as flow somewhere else.

emaherx

patsy_mccabe wrote: »

It's not free energy, if you still have height available on the water when it comes out of the ram pump. Say the height of water is 20 feet, 10 feet is used to drive the ram pump, then 10 feet is still there to take away as flow somewhere else.

Yes, but the plan is to run a ram pump from a syphon, there won't be 20ft of head or anywhere near enough flow to run the ram to start with, let alone use the waste for a secondary operation.

green daries

emaherx wrote: »

Yes, but the plan is to run a ram pump from a syphon, there won't be 20ft of head or anywhere near enough flow to run the ram to start with, let alone use the waste for a secondary operation.

Yes but allow for the larger rampump sucking from the lake generating a much larger volume of water the syphon can only really be used as a starting prime the volume of water generated by a ram pump is impressive... now weather it is viable or to expensive or too much hassle for the ops set up that's a different kettle of fish

emaherx

green daries wrote: »

Yes but allow for the larger rampump sucking from the lake generating a much larger volume of water the syphon can only really be used as a starting prime the volume of water generated by a ram pump is impressive... now weather it is viable or to expensive or too much hassle for the ops set up that's a different kettle of fish

??

Ram pumps don't suck from lakes but are driven off of flowing water. The ram pump will only pump about 1/5 of the water that flows through it.


It's the sudden stop in flow that forces some of the water through a non return valve. The syphon is not going to produce more power through a water ram as water rams although ingenious are very inefficient.

green daries

emaherx wrote: »

??

Ram pumps don't suck from lakes but are driven off of flowing water. The ram pump will only pump about 1/5 of the water that flows through it.


It's the sudden stop in flow that forces some of the water through a non return valve. The syphon is not going to produce more power through a water ram as water rams although ingenious are very inefficient.

My bad .....and that is why every day is a learning day

tellmeabit

Deleted User wrote: »

Thoughts on this as if it works it could save me a few headaches - namely having anything to do with my nemesis, a petrol water pump that refuses to work 100% of the time I really need it.

I often see farmers asking how to pump water, my own issue is often the sources of water on my farm are in low spots with no flow, ponds, lakes etc. If something lower tech works then I'd rather not be dicking around with engines, solar, or windmills.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AHJUl5wl9WI&t=3s

If the above gets water out of a pond or lake, the next question I'd have is would it then drive a ram pump to pump water uphill?

I don't follow how this pulling the water from lake.is the exit point lower? Like when you use a pipe to transfer liquid from one hights to another slightly lower?

tellmeabit

tellmeabit wrote: »

I don't follow how this pulling the water from lake.is the exit point lower? Like when you use a pipe to transfer liquid from one hights to another slightly lower?

After sleeping on it I'm reconsidering the idea as well. Information is sparse, as far as I can gather he's saying the filled barrel creates a vacuum which sucks up the water from below the outlet pipe. He's said the outlet pipe needs to be longer and larger than the intake but......... Nope, I don't think it'll work!

Odelay

tellmeabit wrote: »

I don't follow how this pulling the water from lake.is the exit point lower? Like when you use a pipe to transfer liquid from one hights to another slightly lower?

Don't believe all you see on youtube... Physics gets in the way...

emaherx

The solar pump has been working away for a few weeks now, but I'm still having pressure switch issues. I think the old foot valve (if there is one at all) is not working. I have the IBC setup beside the well now so I may as well just install a float switch, which should solve my issue an be easier on the pump anyway as there will be less cycling on/off when the tank is full/almost full compared to a ballcock.

IMG_20210508_174026 by Farmer Ed's Shed, on Flickr

On the solar side, the setup is working great, it takes the pump hours to fill the IBC from empty but once running during daylight it dose not run down the battery at all, I think I'll take out the 100AH battery in favor of a smaller one. I might also use a photo cell to prevent night time running. At the moment I have a separate solar fencer with 70AH battery running in the same land so I'll use that battery and install the fence unit along with the pump.

emaherx

Plumbing is not my strongest skill, you can see in the photo above I'm still using some garden hose. When I finally get around to plumbing all of the drinkers should I use a larger diameter hydrodare pipe for this sort of gravity fed setup?

blackbox

Hydradare is certified as non toxic for drinking water; garden hose isn't.

Apart from that, it probably won't work any better.

emaherx

blackbox wrote: »

Hydradare is certified as non toxic for drinking water; garden hose isn't.

Apart from that, it probably won't work any better.

Certified non toxic for drinking water for human consumption I presume, don't think cattle will suffer Ill effects of a short run of garden hose as a temporary solution. My question was not about the merits of replacing the hose with hydrodare as it is going to be anyway, but whether I go from 1/2" to 3/4" or larger pipes from the IBC to the drinkers.

148multi

emaherx wrote: »

Certified non toxic for drinking water for human consumption I presume, don't think cattle will suffer Ill effects of a short run of garden hose as a temporary solution. My question was not about the merits of replacing the hose with hydrodare as it is going to be anyway, but whether I go from 1/2" to 3/4" or larger pipes from the IBC to the drinkers.

I would go with the 1/2" and a fast fill ballcock, you'll only need to change the funnel.

Ten Pin

Plumbing is not my strongest skill, you can see in the photo above I'm still using some garden hose. When I finally get around to plumbing all of the drinkers should I use a larger diameter hydrodare pipe for this sort of gravity fed setup?

https://www.calctool.org/CALC/eng/civil/hazen-williams_g

https://www.omnicalculator.com/physics/pipe-flow

emaherx

148multi wrote: »

I would go with the 1/2" and a fast fill ballcock, you'll only need to change the funnel.

I'm using low pressure ballcocks which have a wider nozzle compared to the standard ballcocks. The drinkers are filling fine, they won't break any speed records but have plenty of capacity.

tellmeabit

So one field has this rought and ready effort.
Evechute straight from dike into barrel, filtered with old satellite dish, and from there using garden hose stuck in at bottom of tank sealed with clay and moss. into icb tank. Then black pipe to the drinkers.

https://flic.kr/p/2kXLjif

tellmeabit

struggling to get images up.

emaherx

tellmeabit wrote: »

struggling to get images up.

Are the image sizes too big? Maybe use an image host site.

tellmeabit

https://flic.kr/p/2kXGTBP
at the end of the drainage pipe from spring, build up some earth/clay stones and have another bit of drainage pipe, going to replace that with another bit of white pipe i foound today. but you get the idea.



https://flic.kr/p/2kXMvaW
using layflat pipe to connect drainage pipe to the white pipe, could do better here with a bit of rubber tube or larger diameter pipe that the drainage could go into.

https://flic.kr/p/2kXRVJz
inside barrel


the barrell with satelitte dish as lid and the 3/4 fitting and pipe at bottom going to drinker.
https://flic.kr/p/2kXMuT3

tellmeabit

emaherx wrote: »

Are the image sizes too big? Maybe use an image host site.

No dont think so, took screen shots to make them smaller . All under the 4mb

emaherx

tellmeabit wrote: »

https://flic.kr/p/2kXGTBP
at the end of the drainage pipe from spring, build up some earth/clay stones and have another bit of drainage pipe, going to replace that with another bit of white pipe i foound today. but you get the idea.



https://flic.kr/p/2kXMvaW
using layflat pipe to connect drainage pipe to the white pipe, could do better here with a bit of rubber tube or larger diameter pipe that the drainage could go into.

https://flic.kr/p/2kXRVJz
inside barrel


the barrell with satelitte dish as lid and the 3/4 fitting and pipe at bottom going to drinker.
https://flic.kr/p/2kXMuT3

I assume your spring is higher than your drinker?
Dose the drinker have a ballcock or an overflow of some description? Will you be able to get water like this all summer long?

emaherx

tellmeabit wrote: »

No dont think so, took screen shots to make them smaller . All under the 4mb

If you are using flickr there is a share button at the bottom of each of your photos, click on it then choose BBcode and select your image size. you can then copy and paste the code generated here and it will embed the images for you which is quite handy. I usually pick a size around 800x600.