Hypothetical situation

The_Minister

Scenario:
Man and woman are dating. Prior to sex, the woman promises the man that if she gets pregnant, she will take the morning-after pill or go to England and procure an abortion.
They have sex, she gets pregnant, and decides to carry it to term.

Should the man have to pay child support?

On the one hand the man made it clear that he was having sex on the condition that no child result, and so shouldn't be tied for life, and the woman was dishonest, but on the other hand is it fair on the child that the father does not pay for his upbringing?

M5

"Hypothetical situation"

Well... he did have sex in the first place.
But... I don't know, I suppose he shouldn't have to really. But I think it would be preferable if he did for the child's sake, regardless of feelings for the mother.

TheZohanS

IMO the man should have the choice.

stovelid

Sounds like a hypothetically stupid bloke.

I guess that the agreement is meaningless as it's verbal and hard to prove. In the eyes of the law he's the Dad, so while it's unfair, he'd probably have to stump up?

Maybe I'm wrong?

The_Minister

TheZohan wrote: »

IMO the man should have the choice.

And the bastard*?






*That's what the word actually means - a child born out of wedlock.

SoupyNorman

Unless contracts are signed you're screwed. (edit:as was she)

anonymous_joe

The_Minister wrote: »

And the bastard*?






*That's what the word actually means - a child born out of wedlock.

Is it Kevin Myers in disguise? :pac:

In this country, the dude is basically fcuked. Morally it's what one calls a grey area, though I suppose I'd suggest in this context the man has the option to opt out of paying.

Why should a woman get to fcuk up a man's life having agreed not to?

jigglywoo

Who discusses abortion and morning after pills before having sex?!
Mood killer!!

Anyway they shouldn't really have needed that talk if they were using contraception so it sounds like a dodgey situation from the beginning.

TheZohanS

The_Minister wrote: »

And the bastard*?

The child can choose to reject the natural father if he ever tries to get in touch in the future.

If the hypothetical mother decides to have the baby I'm sure she should have the resources to care for it.

Jet Black

Should he- No
Does he have to- Yes

Jet Black

Why did he just not use a condom?

The_Minister

TheZohan wrote: »

The child can choose to reject the natural father if he ever tries to get in touch in the future.

If the hypothetical mother decides to have the baby I'm sure she should have the resources to care for it.

And if a poor woman doesn't want to get an abortion?

The_Minister

Mask wrote: »

Why did he just not use a condom?

He did - it broke.

Bitch was dry too

allabouteve

Hypothetical Situation

A man has sex with a woman. He promises his condoms aren't past their use-by date. They are, they fail. She gets pregnant.

Should she have the right to string him up by his balls?

I'm going with yes.

newmills

Hypothetically speaking then - all women should take it up the bum. No babies that way - everyone's a winner!!;)

kumate_champ07

if you have no money in the bank account dont make any deposits in a vagina.

ShooterSF

If he took all precautions and wore a condom then I'd sympathise big time. I never want to have kids and it's something I'm freaky careful about. I even dispose of my own used condoms.
The man should have just as much a say about aborting a child and should be able to opt out of childcare payments if he offers to split the bill to get rid of it.
Unfortunately abortion is still illegal in this country so none of that can happen as the govt. would have to acknowledge that the law is not enforced.

TheZohanS

The_Minister wrote: »

He did - it broke.

Bitch was dry too

You should have used lube.


Did she take the morning after pill when the condom broke?

Mrmoe

newmills wrote: »

Hypothetically speaking then - all women should take it up the bum. No babies that way - everyone's a winner!!;)

Pregnancy can still happen so I've been told .... hmmm I think

Abi

I don't know where to start with this, it just seems very man-sided to me. Of course a guy should be able to choose. But it seems to me there are bits missing from the story. Its far to simplified.

The_Minister wrote: »

Scenario:
Man and woman are dating. Prior to sex, the woman promises the man that if she gets pregnant, she will take the morning-after pill or go to England and procure an abortion.

This portrays her lack of interest in having a family, without ever being faced with the dilemma.

They have sex, she gets pregnant, and decides to carry it to term.

With or without condom? did it split? If she decided to carry it to term it maybe because being faced with the situation, she is forced to consider two possibilites as it is genuinely happening to her, now.

Should the man have to pay child support?

Maybe not an ideal situation, but if its his child, its a legal requirement. Regardless of what circumstances the child comes into the world, the child will need looking after, pointless taking it out on him / her, and may later resent your rejection.

On the one hand the man made it clear that he was having sex on the condition that no child result, and so shouldn't be tied for life

It doesn't seem to me that she wanted to be either.

and the woman was dishonest

Bitch wimmins with their evil super sekrit mind controlling fannies :rolleyes:

but on the other hand is it fair on the child that the father does not pay for his upbringing?

It isnt something that either party wanted to begin. But a woman can never really know the pain of having to decide to have a child or an abortion until being thrown into the situation.

It happened to me, I'm keeping the outcome to myself. Your 'friend' needs to stop thinking of just himself. Its not just about him anymore.

Jet Black

The_Minister wrote: »

Bitch was dry too

Hes not doing it right then....:o

dylano_k

Mrmoe wrote: »

Pregnancy can still happen so I've been told .... hmmm I think

What ever happened to the pull out and filling up the bellybutton cup ?:pac:

Abi

dylano_k wrote: »

What ever happened to the pull out and filling up the bellybutton cup ?:pac:

Careful now, there are a lot of LC'ers flying about. That kind of talk could lead to a new breed :rolleyes:

Lockstep

Would this hypothetical man's name be Joey Joe Joe Joe Junior Shabadoo by any chance?

dylano_k

Abigayle wrote: »

Careful now, there are a lot of LC'ers flying about. That kind of talk could lead to a new breed :rolleyes:

Im sorry, it just needed to be said because somebody was going to eventually !! LC ? is that leaving certers ? i need to catch up on this Boards lingo...Whats OP ??

The_Minister

kickoutthejams wrote: »

Would this hypothetical man's name be Joey Joe Joe Joe Junior Shabadoo by any chance?

No -there's a case going to the US Sc regarding men's reproductive rights (different issue though) so it got me thinking about men's right not to reproduce.

K-9

He really should get the snip. Seriously.

Abi

dylano_k wrote: »

Im sorry, it just needed to be said because somebody was going to eventually !! LC ? is that leaving certers ? i need to catch up on this Boards lingo...Whats OP ??

L.C'ers is are Leaving Cert'ers for short. OP is a long standing one for Original Post. T

he Minister, instead of agreeing with Dylano for his post, could you not have explained? We've had a spate of these threads after their exams to the point that Terry had to create a sticky for LC student guidance for the forum.

challengemaster

Hypothetical answer

Jet Black

From my personal experience you should never trust a woman. Something similar happened to a friend of a friend, his gf said she was told by a doctor she could not get pregenant. No prizes for guessing what happened..

January

What if she did take the MAP... that can fail too... some women just can't face an abortion...

Pherekydes

If you create a baby, pay for it. End of.

If you don't want to create a baby, don't (take the risk and) have sex.

tony1kenobi

Similar to hypothetical situation 2:

Woman: If I let you handcuff me to the bed will you promise not to stick it up my arse?

Man: Of course


Both situations end with one person fcuked in a way they didn't want to be because either:

a) you should have stayed away from the cnut

or

b) you stayed away from the cnut.

Someone will always get fcuked though.

Red Hand

In regards to the first post, if there is anything I've learned from Judge Judy, it's that verbal agreements do not hold water.

Abi

Mask wrote: »

From my personal experience you should never trust a woman. Something similar happened to a friend of a friend, his gf said she was told by a doctor she could not get pregenant. No prizes for guessing what happened..

There is so much wrong with this post.. If he was so certain that this isn't what he wanted, why didnt he have a bag on it anyway? Evil wimminz eh? :rolleyes:

Those eggs remain perfectly unfertilized until someone comes along shuts down the brain and thinks with their cock. As the song goes, "It takes two baby....".

themadchef

If you're **** you're banking, if you're porking you're forking.



( i just posted that )

TheZohanS

Abigayle wrote: »

As the song goes, "It takes two baby....".

Not all of the time.

Abi

TheZohan wrote: »

Not all of the time.

Mmmmmm a bit of Zohan before bed

Comes in for kiss.. licks Zohans lips suggestively and slowly.. hands wander down back to the ass.. pulls ass towards Abi.. Abi can feel something hard on her.. Zohan drops lips to neck and bewbs.. You know how this goes.. he drops the hand finds her all wet.. [/making point]

This is where it seems to get very blurry for guys.. If the only protection is a condom, that is something that both have to place their trust in. Why is either one to blame in this scenario? Yes there are deceptive men, and deceptive women. Its all the more reason why you should take responibility yourself, rather than lay your trust in the other person alone (especially in a relationship in its early stages).

TheZohanS

Abigayle wrote: »

Mmmmmm a bit of Zohan before bed

Comes in for kiss.. licks Zohans lips suggestively and slowly.. hands wander down back to the ass.. pulls ass towards Abi.. Abi can feel something hard on her.. Zohan drops lips to neck and bewbs.. You know how this goes.. he drops the hand finds her all wet.. [/making point]

This is where it seems to get very blurry for guys.. If the only protection is a condom, that is something that both have to place their trust in. Why is either one to blame in this scenario? Yes there are deceptive men, and deceptive women. Its all the more reason why you should take responibility yourself, rather than lay your trust in the other person alone (especially in a relationship in its early stages).

You had me at hello....

Pherekydes

Abigayle wrote: »

blah blah

Hey, what about my post?

K-9

Abigayle wrote: »

If the only protection is a condom, that is something that both have to place their trust in.

My point is: it isn't the only protection, the snip is there if you want a failsafe (or as near as) method. Condoms have a failure rate and men have to accept that, as indeed the pill has. Sex has risks even with protection. I'd prefer to keep the little responsibilities we have rather than remove them.

Abi

TheZohan wrote: »

You had me at hello....

You had me at 'sterilized'

Abi

K-9 wrote: »

My point is: it isn't the only protection, the snip is there if you want a failsafe (or as near as) method. Condoms have a failure rate and men have to accept that, as indeed the pill has.

Well thats a post I cant disagree with. Accidental pregnancies come in a few different forms. Number one for example being the 'doctor told me I can't have babies' form. Now this isnt impossible, one condition I know of is PCOS (if Im right). I do know it seriously knocks the odds. The pill has odds, condoms have sucess odds.. If either male or female are not genuinely ready for it, they should take responsibility for their own protection at the very least.

Sharpshooter

Jeremiah 16:1 wrote: »

In regards to the first post, if there is anything I've learned from Judge Judy, it's that verbal agreements do not hold water.

That would be oral then?:pac:

Mrmoe

Abigayle wrote: »

Mmmmmm a bit of Zohan before bed

Comes in for kiss.. licks Zohans lips suggestively and slowly.. hands wander down back to the ass.. pulls ass towards Abi.. Abi can feel something hard on her.. Zohan drops lips to neck and bewbs.. You know how this goes.. he drops the hand finds her all wet.. [/making point]

This is where it seems to get very blurry for guys.. If the only protection is a condom, that is something that both have to place their trust in. Why is either one to blame in this scenario? Yes there are deceptive men, and deceptive women. Its all the more reason why you should take responibility yourself, rather than lay your trust in the other person alone (especially in a relationship in its early stages).

If you ever consider writing erotic stories let me know and I will buy some:)

K-9

Abigayle wrote: »

Well thats a post I cant disagree with. Accidental pregnancies come in a few different forms. Number one for example being the 'doctor told me I can't have babies' form. Now this isnt impossible, one condition I know of is PCOS (if Im right). I do know it seriously knocks the odds. The pill has odds, condoms have sucess odds.. If either male or female are not genuinely ready for it, they should take responsibility for their own protection at the very least.

The other side is plenty of men don't pay maintenance already or very little, I'd hate to see weasels like that get a "get out of jail free card".

"Ah sure, she told me she was on the pill"!

easyeason3

Jeremiah 16:1 wrote: »

In regards to the first post, if there is anything I've learned from Judge Judy, it's that verbal agreements do not hold water.

That's where you are wrong. Judge Judy does indeed recognise verbal agreements, or if you happen to appear before her she likes to call them verbal contracts.

However if you can prove that the sperm was a 'gift' then you are a free man.

If the sperm was a 'loan' then you are screwed, in every sense.

peanuthead

The_Minister wrote: »

Bitch was dry too

Your fault

Abi

K-9 wrote: »

The other side is plenty of men don't pay maintenance already or very little, I'd hate to see weasels like that get a "get out of jail free card".

"Ah sure, she told me she was on the pill"!

Well, it's up to the mothers involved to seek maintenance through the court. I dont see why they wouldnt.

Don't get me wrong, I do know there are two sides to every story, the only reason why I was able to reply to Zohan in the way that I did was, because I can relate to being caught up in a moment. (Although I gave the AH version of it, not the S&S) :pac:

The bottom line for either man or woman is, look after yourself. remove the protection when you know you can handle the results.

Sharpshooter

K-9 wrote: »

The other side is plenty of men don't pay maintenance already or very little, I'd hate to see weasels like that get a "get out of jail free card".

"Ah sure, she told me she was on the pill"!

Sitting on it does fcuk all to prevent unwanted pregnancies.

Yes, that should surely be changed to "I'm Swallowing the pill every morning".

There are far too many of those lousers about and in some cases have 4 and 5 kids, they are the one's I would like to see made hand over every penny to help raise their children.:pac: