Beth Ditto - great role model or bad example?

Faith

Beth Ditto is the lead singer of The Gossip, and Perez Hilton is a huge fan of hers. He often posts stories about how she embraces her size, while simultaneously bitching about other women gaining weight (Kirstie Alley, Jessica Simpson). Wikipedia says:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Beth_Ditto wrote:

Ditto is a lesbian, and is known for her outspoken support of feminist causes ... Ditto classes herself as a punk, and thus does not wear deodorant or shave under her armpits, having once remarked that "I think punks usually smell".[4] She has been photographed numerous times, and is lauded for her support of positive body image.

A British journalist recently wrote that Ditto is "just as bad an example to young women as a girl ten stone lighter than her", which Perez Hilton took great offence to. So I'm curious, do the women of tLL think that morbidly obese women like Beth Ditto who are happy with their size are good role models, or are they causing as much damage as anorexic ones who promote excessive thinness? Should we all strive to be happy with our bodies, regardless or health concerns?

Corb

I wouldn't call someone that's grossly overweight and obviously unhealthy a good role model!

allabouteve

The woman is unhealthily fat. Perez Hilton is too, and this is what likely flavours his opinion.

She shouldn't be derided for being fat, but neither should she be celebrated for it.

pikachucheeks

I think it's cool that she's confident about her body and she's defying stereotypical notions of beauty...
However, being that much over-weight, the likelihood is she's putting her health at risk - which isn't cool, or sexy! In the same way being painfully thin isn't either.

Lia_lia

Yeah, it's cool that she is highlighting how important it is to be happy with the way you look. But it's not cool that girls could look at her and then think it's alright to be that obese and not do anything about it.

Hermione*

I do think we should strive to be happy with our bodies, but we should also aim for healthy bodies. I don't think being morbidly obese is something we should promote to young girls, just as I don't think being as thin as Paris Hilton is something that should be promoted to young girls. Clearly, neither is a healthy option and and I think being healthy and happy are things which should be promoted together. Both are important.

LivingDeadGirl

Lol @ anyone who has her as their role model, she's just another girl taking it off for attention! What if she was skinny and said she took off her clothes to promote positive body image? :rolleyes:

I just find her trashy and annoying, plus most punk is rubbish

amacachi

Great role model, or the greatest role model?

4zn76tysfajdxp

Personally, I think that anybody who looks at rock stars hoping to re-mould themselves in their image is quite foolish. My role models were and still are my family, I simply can't take a musician seriously as an influence.

DarkJager

I'm sorry to phrase it this way, but she is disgusting. There's just no other word to describe her.

silvervixen84

i think she has plenty of confidence and attitude, which is admirable, however i also think she should dress to suit her body shape. There is no point pouring herself into unflattering clothing when she can still make a fashion statement and look fabulous

No no, she's an excellent example.

Of how not to eat, dress, look...

Agent Smith

a think a Balance has to be found. Stick insect thin women are not very attractive.

Linsey lohan, prime example. was Very good looking before she lost loads of weight, lost the weight and people looked at her thinness rather then her natural beauty.

DarkJager

Agent Smith wrote: »

a think a Balance has to be found. Stick insect thin women are not very attractive.

Linsey lohan, prime example. was Very good looking before she lost loads of weight, lost the weight and people looked at her thinness rather then her natural beauty.

But the same thing can be said about the other end of the scale. I personally love nothing more than a bit of well distributed weight on a woman, but Beth Ditto just takes the piss. I mean, to get that fat, you'd need to be seriosuly ****in lazy. And I personally think she's only a lesbian cos even a blind man wouldn't put a dick near her.

allabouteve

DarkJager wrote: »

And I personally think she's only a lesbian cos even a blind man wouldn't put a dick near her.

Yes, you're right. Thats the reason why some women ''become'' lesbians.

DarkJager

Personal opinion, don't get offended

Cupcake_Crisis

I think she's to be admired in a way, she's just doing what most other celebrities do, despite the fact that she wouldnt be viewed as stereotypically attractive by the masses. She's used her size and appearence to her advantage, gaining her and her band some crucial media coverage. She probably isnt the worlds best role model, but people really shouldnt be encouraged to idolise these people.
Personally, i admire her confidence and attitude. Fair play i say!

Madame Razz

I just think she's mank tbh, regardless of what weight she is, though obviously her size isn't the healthiest. Her lack of hygiene, general attitude and particular brand of attention seeking is pretty disgusting and pathetic IMO.

Nevyn

Beth Ditto - great role model or bad example?

Why can't she be both?
Why does she have to be one or the other?

We don't expect men to be all around perfect, if they are talented then they are and we don't heap derision on them for other failing they have the same way we do with women esp when it comes to thier appearance. It's like seemingly a lot more offensive if a woman doesn't reach a certain standard of the ideal woman in terms of figure and beauty and worse if she doesn't seem to care.

This has always been the case but has gotten worse, Mamma Cass got some abuse but at least her talent was respected. With how things are now I don't think that Dawn French would ever have had a career and that in it's self is pretty shocking imho.

We don't see threads like Pavarotti great role model or bad example and he could have done with loosing a hell of a lot more weight then Beth Ditto and would prolly still be alive.

She is a good role model of doing what you want with your life and chasing your dreams and not waiting until you are "perfect" before living you life and putting yourself out there.

She is not a good role model of a person who makes healthy eating choices.

Funny how we don't see the exact same thread about Johnny Vegas who is a lot fatter and a lot less talented but then again that is not as much of a crime cos he's male.....

28064212

Thaedydal wrote: »

Beth Ditto - great role model or bad example?

Why can't she be both?
Why does she have to be one or the other?

We don't expect men to be all around perfect, if they are talented then they are and we don't heap derision on them for other failing they have the same way we do with women esp when it comes to thier appearance. It's like seemingly a lot more offensive if a woman doesn't reach a certain standard of the ideal woman in terms of figure and beauty and worse if she doesn't seem to care.

This has always been the case but has gotten worse, Mamma Cass got some abuse but at least her talent was respected. With how things are now I don't think that Dawn French would ever have had a career and that in it's self is pretty shocking imho.

We don't see threads like Pavarotti great role model or bad example and he could have done with loosing a hell of a lot more weight then Beth Ditto and would prolly still be alive.

She is a good role model of doing what you want with your life and chasing your dreams and not waiting until you are "perfect" before living you life and putting yourself out there.

She is not a good role model of a person who makes healthy eating choices.

Funny how we don't see the exact same thread about Johnny Vegas who is a lot fatter and a lot less talented but then again that is not as much of a crime cos he's male.....

Actually, the difference between the likes of Pavarotti and Beth Ditto is that nobody is suggesting that Pavarotti is a good role model because of his weight. Ditto uses her obesity as a selling point, and constantly flaunts the fact that she is overweight and portrays it as a good thing. And I've heard plenty of people criticising Johnny Vegas

Who on earth is johnny vegas
*goes off to google*

Léan

Uh, I hate Beth Ditto.
She's obese, rude, not funny, certainly not a role model... and her music sucks .

I don't see how she has any redeeming qualities. The media have turned her into this image of how it's ok to be obese (i'm all for have curves etc.. and being natural but come on!), shout your mouth off and give out about eveything. How is that a good role model?

Her weight and eating habits aside, what else has she got going for herself? Eh, nothing? As for calling herself a 'punk'? Punk died 20 years ago.

madra-rua

Bad example. Yucky

Acacia

DarkJager wrote: »

Personal opinion, don't get offended

It may be your personal opinion, but it is terribly illogical and most likely , wrong. Women don't just turn into lesbians because men don't find them attractive- women are lesbians because they find women attractive.

Believe me, I'm not offended, I just feel like I have to comment when somebody posts something so ridiculous.

*****

I don't think it's fair to say that Ditto is relying on her appearance to sell music/get attention. The fact of the matter is, as a young woman in the entertainment industry, she was going to be judged on her appearance anyway. And she is- very harshly. However, I think it's good that she can say "Sod you, I'm happy with how I look''.

~nop~

I don't think she's a great role model from a weight point of view, but from a confidence one she obviously is.

Faith

Thaedydal wrote: »

Beth Ditto - great role model or bad example?

Why can't she be both?
Why does she have to be one or the other?

We don't expect men to be all around perfect, if they are talented then they are and we don't heap derision on them for other failing they have the same way we do with women esp when it comes to thier appearance. It's like seemingly a lot more offensive if a woman doesn't reach a certain standard of the ideal woman in terms of figure and beauty and worse if she doesn't seem to care.

This has always been the case but has gotten worse, Mamma Cass got some abuse but at least her talent was respected. With how things are now I don't think that Dawn French would ever have had a career and that in it's self is pretty shocking imho.

We don't see threads like Pavarotti great role model or bad example and he could have done with loosing a hell of a lot more weight then Beth Ditto and would prolly still be alive.

She is a good role model of doing what you want with your life and chasing your dreams and not waiting until you are "perfect" before living you life and putting yourself out there.

She is not a good role model of a person who makes healthy eating choices.

Funny how we don't see the exact same thread about Johnny Vegas who is a lot fatter and a lot less talented but then again that is not as much of a crime cos he's male.....

28064212 wrote: »

Actually, the difference between the likes of Pavarotti and Beth Ditto is that nobody is suggesting that Pavarotti is a good role model because of his weight. Ditto uses her obesity as a selling point, and constantly flaunts the fact that she is overweight and portrays it as a good thing. And I've heard plenty of people criticising Johnny Vegas

Question, answer tbh. It's not a question of her being female, thus being under more pressure to be thin. As I quoted in my OP, she's praised for her positive body image - I assume that means that she regularly speaks out about being happy with her weight and it being okay to be obese. In fact, general opinion seems to be that she's not talented, and her band are average at best, meaning she's mostly famous for essentially promoting obesity. The same thread doesn't exist about Johnny Vegas because he doesn't promote obesity, and afaik is quite publicly unhappy with his weight. He has mentioned recently that he's making an effort to lose weight, and had lost 4 stone by that point.

While your post makes a good point about women in the public eye, Thaed, I think it misses the point of the thread, and that is whether it's okay to be so outspoken about your positive body image that it effectively turns into promoting obesity.

Galvasean

Well she's clearly using her image to sell her product, just like any band/musician that has a visual gimmick (Lordi and Slipknot are two examples which come to mind). I had never heard about her before this thread, which is about her image rather than music, so there's some extra exposure we can chalk down to image.
Sometimes I think musicians should be banned from being seen in public, that way they would be judged soley on their musical merits.

Nevyn

So Faith you are saying that any exposure she has it is all about her being an alternate lifestyle poster girl and it's not about her talent and her music?

Funny how heroin chic was acceptable as long as the models covered up thier track marks as it make them thin and acceptable.

If she wants to live her life that way and take those risks then that is up to her,
the same as all the other 'celebs' who do things to excess and/or take risks which are not good for them and thus makes them bad poster boys and girls.

Why does her flashing her flab make her a worse role model then slash on the cover of rolling stone clearly wasted with a fag hanging of his lower lip and a half empty bottle of J.D. cradled in his arms?

illiop

Thaedydal wrote: »

If she wants to live her life that way and take those risks then that is up to her,
the same as all the other 'celebs' who do things to excess and/or take risks which are not good for them and thus makes them bad poster boys and girls.

But that's the point isn't it? They're seen as bad for being excessivley whatever where as she is seen as being good, just because it's fashionable to be "anti-skinny". When i was in school I was bullied for my lack of wieght which was something I couldn't help and I remeber there was one stage about two years ago where she was in EVERY magazine. I used to cry over articles that were writen about how brilliant it was that there was this fat girl who was proud that she wasn't skinny and then I turn the page to discover that some other ramdom famous person "now only weighs..." and how sick and sad she must be. I know that crying over some trashy teen-mag is ridicualous but young girls are as sensitive as hell and do idolise famous people (even if they claim they don't).

Faith

Thaedydal wrote: »

So Faith you are saying that any exposure she has it is all about her being an alternate lifestyle poster girl and it's not about her talent and her music?

To be honest, I've never heard of her outside of perezhilton.com, where all the stories are about how amazing she is for being fat and proud, or how brave she is for wearing clothes that are designed for very thin women. I doubt I'm in the minority there, especially judging by this thread. So yes, I am saying that the majority of exposure about her is due to her appearance, rather than her talent or music.

This thread was inspired by this post, and specifically the comments left by the readers.

Why does her flashing her flab make her a worse role model then slash on the cover of rolling stone clearly wasted with a fag hanging of his lower lip and a half empty bottle of J.D. cradled in his arms?

That's exactly my point - it doesn't. She's just as bad a role model, but for some reason, she's being embraced for her obesity. No-one looks at a picture of Slash and says "Ah, it's fantastic that he's embracing his alcoholism!", so why should people cheer on Beth Ditto for embracing her weight problem? She is an example of the pendulum swinging too far in the other direction. It's obviously a backlash from stick-thin anorexic models and actresses, but it's just as dangerous, if not more so, to be morbidly obese as stick thin. I understand that some people may feel that, by lauding Ditto's weight, it may encourage others to realise that they don't have to be a size 0 to be attractive, but you then run the danger of people buying into this idea too much, and putting their own health at risk being obese and thinking it's fine because Beth Ditto says it is.

994

Madame Razz wrote: »

I just think she's mank tbh, regardless of what weight she is, though obviously her size isn't the healthiest. Her lack of hygiene, general attitude and particular brand of attention seeking is pretty disgusting and pathetic IMO.

Isn't she meant to be some sort of punk?

Dragan

LivingDeadGirl wrote: »

punk is rubbish

Good punk is never going to be something you find in the mainstream to be honest. As for Ditto, nope, not what i would call a good role model. Don't get me wrong, be happy with yourself and do what you want to do.....but promoting being overly overweight is just as bad as promoting being overly underweight to me.

*sits back and waits for the thyroid argument to come up*

Madame Razz

994 wrote: »

Isn't she meant to be some sort of punk?

A manky sort!!!

Tbh I would consider her being punk a little far fetched IMO.

In fact she's doing a disservice to punk by even claiming so.

I won't consider her as any sort of role model tbh; but then I don't consider 'celebrities' as role models anyway.

There are plenty of singular, admirable people in my midst daily, with whom I interact with and admire in many ways. I don't need to buy a magazine or log onto some gossip site to find me role models tbh.

Heck, I never even look for role models really; I prefer to admire REAL people's attributes and mindsets whilst remaining very much my own person.


Each to their own I guess...

Dudess

allabouteve wrote: »

The woman is unhealthily fat. Perez Hilton is too, and this is what likely flavours his opinion.

But what's amusing is it's ok for him to make fun of e.g. Jessica Simpson putting on a lot of weight, because she used to be a "skinny bitch" so she "deserves" it...

DarkJager wrote: »

Personal opinion, don't get offended

Don't you mean it's your suspicion she's a lesbian because men wouldn't go near her, rather than your opinion? Seeing as an opinion is a subjective view rather than a fact, and your point is overwhelmingly likely to be incorrect?

I'm in agreement with the general consensus here - being complacent about, and celebratory of, obesity = bad; not letting it hold you back, while at the same time acknowledging it's unhealthy and doing your best to work on it/spread a message of healthy eating and exercise = good.

Plus, the bandwagon-jumping inspired by Beth Ditto is hilarious - people like Anna Wintour and Karl Lagerfeld are apparently queuing up for a piece of her. It's quite condescending because it sure as heck ain't out of a sense of duty to include overweight women in fashion - kinda reminds me of the Susan Boyle thing. As someone I read today said: "She's become such a household name, not in spite of her weight, but because of it."

Dolbert

This thread reminds me of when Heat printed pictures of a then morbidly obese Michelle McManus on the beach in her swimsuit, with a caption to the effect of 'Good on ya Girl'... Er, why exactly? Because being that overweight is somehow a positive thing?
This is coming from a fellow chubster btw!

Dudess

I wouldn't mind so much if those magazines were consistent, but the following week - or even within that same issue - there was probably a piece taking the piss out of Michelle McManus.

Dragan

Dudess wrote: »

I wouldn't mind so much if those magazines were consistent, but the following week - or even within that same issue - there was probably a piece taking the piss out of Michelle McManus.

Which will only be dictated by your willingness to do a piece with that magazine anyway.

GirlInterrupted

28064212 wrote: »

Actually, the difference between the likes of Pavarotti and Beth Ditto is that nobody is suggesting that Pavarotti is a good role model because of his weight. Ditto uses her obesity as a selling point, and constantly flaunts the fact that she is overweight and portrays it as a good thing. And I've heard plenty of people criticising Johnny Vegas

Absolutely. And Pavarotti was lambasted in the continental press for his size, in spite of his talent (which was simultaneously revered), which I for one must say was gargantuan in comparison with a person like Beth Ditto.

I totally agree that she is every bit as bad of a role model as someone who is painfully thin. I saw a 35 year old colleague drop dead from a heart attack in front of me when I worked in the States, because she was obese (and as a result, diabetic). Being that overweight is NOT OK and it has nothing to do with aesthetics.

As for Beth Ditto, she's everything I dislike in a woman. She's loud, crass, obnoxious, has no class, no manners, seeks attention by walking around in her underwear. She is an awful role model, and my dislike of her has nothing to do with her appearance (for what it's worth, I think she's quite pretty).

Nevyn

Faith wrote: »

To be honest, I've never heard of her outside of perezhilton.com, where all the stories are about how amazing she is for being fat and proud, or how brave she is for wearing clothes that are designed for very thin women.

Actually I have heard of her other then just one website.
I really think that you need to maybe rethink judging her based of one site.

Faith wrote: »

So yes, I am saying that the majority of exposure about her is due to her appearance, rather than her talent or music.

Based on what you have read on 1 website?

Faith wrote: »

That's exactly my point - it doesn't. She's just as bad a role model, but for some reason, she's being embraced for her obesity. No-one looks at a picture of Slash and says "Ah, it's fantastic that he's embracing his alcoholism!", so why should people cheer on Beth Ditto for embracing her weight problem?

Nope for the abilty to be different and say fúck it and get on with what she wants in life instead of crying over an article in a magazine.

Faith wrote: »

She is an example of the pendulum swinging too far in the other direction.

I don't think it is, I think it all smacks to much of the FAT Lady at the side show carnival, she so different that it's like a freak show and fair enough if she wants to embrace that to get publicity thats her call.

Faith wrote: »

It's obviously a backlash from stick-thin anorexic models and actresses, but it's just as dangerous, if not more so, to be morbidly obese as stick thin.

IF we were at that stage then Sophie Dhal would have stayed a size 14/16 and not be a size 12 now and I don't think that it is more dangerous then being under weight it just less acceptable.

I would easily say that the number of young girls who are negatively impacted by her pictures is less then .000001% of those who have been negatively impacted over the last 10 years by pictures of models and the accepted figure of women in the media.

Faith wrote: »

I understand that some people may feel that, by lauding Ditto's weight, it may encourage others to realise that they don't have to be a size 0 to be attractive, but you then run the danger of people buying into this idea too much, and putting their own health at risk being obese and thinking it's fine because Beth Ditto says it is.

Stupid sheep like people will always be stupid sheep like people tbh.

b3t4

I haven't heard much of her stuff but I like her voice. It's different and I like that.

I find it silly to box people into a certain 'model' because of their weight.

I'm glad we're going from saying that the heroine chic was cool to saying obese is cool because at some point, in our human pysche, we'll realise that in between is where we need to be. Society, I find, likes to deal in the extremes as we can lay judgment on either end. It's pretty easy to spot the extremes in life and us, as humans, like to point out the obvious

Beth Ditto is a person, should we forget, and she's as flawed and wonderful as the rest of us. If she's happy then I don't feel it's anyone's place to tell her otherwise.

In my opinion, trying to attach her to anything else going on in the world is a bit dramatic.

well horse

She's not happy with her weight at all; it just seems implausable. She probably engages in some sort of cognitive dissonance to pretend to herself that she dosen't mind being that weight, rather than lose it.

MadgeBadge

Dragan wrote: »

Good punk is never going to be something you find in the mainstream to be honest. As for Ditto, nope, not what i would call a good role model. Don't get me wrong, be happy with yourself and do what you want to do.....but promoting being overly overweight is just as bad as promoting being overly underweight to me.

*sits back and waits for the thyroid argument to come up*

Oh, does she have an under-active thyroid? If so it's a pretty valid reason to be fairly over-weight.

I'd hate to see Dragon disappointed.

Cianos

Beth Ditto is an extreme example and on the other end of the scale there are the size 0 models. 90% of the population fall somewhere in the middle. It's good to have role models on either end, so that girls can find for themselves who to look up to. If there were no people like Beth Ditto getting media coverage (for whatever reason), there would be a lot more pressure on girls to achieve the 'perfect' (or in context, 'media-standard') body proportions and in turn feel horrible about themselves when they fall short. So hers and other non model sized women take pressure off girls simply by providing a presence in the media landscape that contradicts the conventional model type.

Just because Beth Ditto gets coverage because of her body size, doesn't mean it's a promotion of obesity. No girl is going to read an article and then run down to McDonalds to look just like her - everyone wants a healthy body. But a lot of people don't have and never will have a healthy body. Thus it's good to have personalities in the media that can reassure people that you can be confident and happy about your body image no matter what size you are, as there are role models at either end of the scale.

So in practical terms the message could be something like; "I wish I had Kate Moss' figure. Well, look at Beth Ditto, she's a lot bigger than I am and has confidence, I guess I shouldn't feel so bad about my body all the time."

jenizzle

So is she actually promoting being fat or just promoting a postive attitude towards your body? I doubt she got that big on purpose just to annoy skinny people :rolleyes:

fatmammycat

Beth Ditto has a rocking voice, and she knows she's fat and is not trying to pretend otherwise. In interviews she comes across as funny and self-deprecating, but also unapologetic. I would hate to be her size, but I hardly think she is promoting fatness as the ideal. She's intelligent, been with the same partner for years and worked incredibly hard-from a background of extreme poverty- to get to where she is today. Frankly I'd take her as a role model over plenty.

Dragan

MadgeBadge wrote: »

Oh, does she have an under-active thyroid? If so it's a pretty valid reason to be fairly over-weight.

I wouldn't.

Average weight gain caused by thyroid issues would be about 5 to 12lbs i believe.

Not 50.

CathyMoran

[quote=[Deleted User];60696622]I totally agree that she is every bit as bad of a role model as someone who is painfully thin. I saw a 35 year old colleague drop dead from a heart attack in front of me when I worked in the States, because she was obese (and as a result, diabetic). Being that overweight is NOT OK and it has nothing to do with aesthetics.

As for Beth Ditto, she's everything I dislike in a woman. She's loud, crass, obnoxious, has no class, no manners, seeks attention by walking around in her underwear. She is an awful role model, and my dislike of her has nothing to do with her appearance (for what it's worth, I think she's quite pretty).[/quote]
The diabetes and obesity argument is the same as the thyroid one...not all diabetics get their illness as a result of obesity and a lot of us suffer from anorexia as a result - type 1 diabetes (insulin dependent) is not caused my obesity and not all cases of type 2 are either. Am a type 1 diabetic by the way and a size 6-8.

Similarly the thyroid argument - while I am sure that in limited circumstances it can cause extreme weight gain that has not been my experience (or of any other people I know who have these issues).

In terms of Beth, she is no more a role model than the anorexic looking models we see on the catwalk - she is not overweight, she is morbidly obese and she celebrates the fact.

purple_hatstand

I could be wrong, but I don't think BD reaches as wide an audience as say, Britney Spears or the Pussycat Dolls who would be fairly poor role-models imo.

But, I have to say, if you're looking to the likes of HEAT magazine and perezhilton.com for your role-models, you're already lost...

MadgeBadge

Dragan wrote: »

I wouldn't.

Average weight gain caused by thyroid issues would be about 5 to 12lbs i believe.

Not 50.

There's nothing average about the weight gain or loss caused by thyroid problems, from what I've witnessed amongst the majority of my family.

There also appears to be nothing average about Beth Ditto. Surely she's not trying to spread the word that her figure is ideal and healthy? If not then why do we have to ear mark her as either a great role model or a bad example?

God I'd hate to be famous.

Dragan

MadgeBadge wrote: »

There's nothing average about the weight gain or loss caused by thyroid problems, from what I've witnessed amongst the majority of my family.

I assume all of them have had there T3 and T4 levels, and TSH levels checked?

Thyroid issues will cause either metabolic slow down or speed up, if it's slow down then people should adjust there diets accordingly.

Personally, if i had thyroid issues the weight gain would be the worst of my fears. But nobody ever really seems to get the other symptoms.

Look, don't take my comment personally, if your family members have Thryroid issues then that's pretty harsh, but the simply fact of it is that about 50% of the people who claim to have thyroid problems have either incredibly minor issues or none at all. It's become the autodefence for the overweight.