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Polish Candidate Running For Town Council

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24

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    #32
    Stabshauptmann
    Registered Users Posts: 4,885 ✭✭✭Stabshauptmann


    prinz wrote: »
    {B} If there campaign manifestos showed pandering to the "native" Irish as you put it, you'd be ok with that?.

    Any politician that has chosen to dedicate him or herself exclusively to one demographic shouldnt really expect the support of those they've chosen to ignore. Now, that's common sense, but racism apparently if that politician is a non-national.

    If Jannet Bloggs came to my house and said that she would only deal with problems faced by women, well she wouldnt get my first preference.


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    #33
    Liam Byrne
    Closed Accounts Posts: 18,163 ✭✭✭✭Liam Byrne


    PaulieD wrote: »
    The Irish emigrating are mainly going to Australia/Canada/NZ/USA, which they would need a work permit to enter.

    According to the law, they would. And governments normally frown upon people who break the law.....

    HOWEVER....
    UNDOCUMENTED IRISH immigrants are "largely removed and marginalised" from positive developments in the relationship between Ireland and the United States, President Mary McAleese told an audience in San Francisco last night.

    In a plea for greater understanding for their predicament, Mrs McAleese said it was important that efforts continue to reach an agreement to regularise the status of the undocumented.

    "I am deeply conscious that there are many within the Irish community in this city who are caught in this situation. So many of the undocumented Irish have lived in the US for many years and, like generations of previous Irish emigrants, they work hard, raise families and make an important contribution to the economic and social life of their communities," she said. "And yet, they live in the shadows of society with fear and uncertainty as their constant companions. Most, we know, also suffer greatly from the pain of not being able to travel to and from Ireland because of the difficulties of re-entry."

    :

    "Some very committed people have championed their cause and the Irish Government has used every possible opportunity to advocate on their behalf and will continue to do so. Efforts are also ongoing to reform our own wider migration arrangements with the United States in a way that complements the modern nature of our relationship."

    Source : http://irishvoices.blogspot.com/2008/12/mcaleese-makes-plea-for-undocumented.html

    FFS, we don't even CALL them "illegal", making up a softer word "undocumented", as if someone forgot to write down their names in a census.

    People in glasshouses, etc...... :rolleyes:


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    #34
    PaulieD
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 932 ✭✭✭PaulieD


    prinz wrote: »
    Once again you assume all immigrants are non-national. Personally I have come across many people of foreign origin who are Irish citizens.

    Do you know the difference between an Irish citizen and an immigrant?


    But then you go on to say one of them wants to send us abroad for better health care..... which is it?

    Why Lithuania? Why her hometown? Il tell you why, she want to boost their economy. She is a member of Fianna Fail, why is she telling citizens to go abroad, conveniently to her home town? Surely her party should be providing health care. Do you not find it a bit off, that a candidate is running for election in Ireland, and wanting to encourage people to go abroad, her hometown, to have health treatment and a nice little holiday?



    Again with the weeping violin, poor us poor us. Talk about word for word from Mein Kampf, strangers and outcasts in our own land, boohoo

    You just had to bring oul Hitler into it didnt you? Silly comment, what has AH got to do with present day immigration?


    But you just said they weren't interested in doing anything for Irish people :confused:

    If the health care I'd receive there would be better than here, and I have no reason to believe otherwise, then I'd be glad to go. Many Irish people are already going abroad for healthcare.

    Why should they go to the womens home town? Convenient, huh? Oh she also mentions they should stay there and half a nice little holiday. She is running on this by the way. Its part of her campaign. Great for her hometown.


    What about the thousands of illegals in the US for example? I suppose you would be one of the people campaigning for them to be excused from the legalities of immigration?

    Should be deported.

    I think you'll find in a recent department spot check, the vast majority of those claiming fraudulently were Irish....

    I think you are talking through your hat. The recent changes in welfare were down to fraud by non nationals.http://www.breakingnews.ie/ireland/crossborder-probe-targets-welfare-fraud-by-immigrants-276261.html

    or

    On a sampling of 2000 new claimants they found that 10% were claiming while not living in the country i.e. fraud. Also an earlier sampling of Children's Allowance found an 800% greater incidence of fraud among non-nationals - the fraud level among non-nationals was 13% compared to circa 1.5% among Irish nationals. I have no doubt that the 10% frauduantly claiming dole were predominantly East Europeans.http://www.irishtimes.com/newspaper/fro ... 92868.html

    Not to mention child benefit for non national children non resident in the state.[url]http://www.independent.ie/national-news/welfare-bill-for-children-living-outside-the-state-hits-836415m-1438620.html[/url]




    And the best candidate could not possibly be an immigrant no? You do realize you are using all the arguments, language, and reasoning of the UKIP, BNP, and other historical parties of questionable character.

    You have a severe case of paranoia pal, its not a case of us versus them unless you make it into one.

    They are clearing running on election manifestos clearly aiming for the vote of their fellow nationals. Not much of a mention of Irish issues.

    PS I am native Irish, what is wrong with that phrase?


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    #35
    oscarBravo
    Technology & Internet Moderators Posts: 28,792 Mod ✭✭✭✭oscarBravo


    PaulieD wrote: »
    The government has responsibalities to these groups of people,

    1-Irish citizens.

    In that order. :D
    That's quite simply not true.

    You could rephrase it to say that you'd be happier if that's where the government's responsibility ended; I think that would reflect your views more accurately.


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    #36
    PaulieD
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 932 ✭✭✭PaulieD


    Liam Byrne wrote: »
    According to the law, they would. And governments normally frown upon people who break the law.....

    HOWEVER....



    Source : http://irishvoices.blogspot.com/2008/12/mcaleese-makes-plea-for-undocumented.html

    FFS, we don't even CALL them "illegal", making up a softer word "undocumented", as if someone forgot to write down their names in a census.

    People in glasshouses, etc...... :rolleyes:

    You are preaching to the converted. The illegals in the states should be deported, and the bill presented to the Irish government.


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    #37
    PaulieD
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 932 ✭✭✭PaulieD


    oscarBravo wrote: »
    That's quite simply not true.

    You could rephrase it to say that you'd be happier if that's where the government's responsibility ended; I think that would reflect your views more accurately.

    Pray tell who are they elected to serve? I think you should read the Irish Constitution.


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    #38
    Serenity Now!
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,326 ✭✭✭Serenity Now!


    PaulieD wrote: »
    A polish man may be part of the Irish communtiy, but he is not an Irish national
    You could not be any more incorrect with that silly (convenient) misconception.


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    #39
    PaulieD
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 932 ✭✭✭PaulieD


    Serenity Now! wrote: »
    You could not be any more incorrect with that silly (convenient) misconception.

    Show me the error of my ways, oh wise one.


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    #40
    oscarBravo
    Technology & Internet Moderators Posts: 28,792 Mod ✭✭✭✭oscarBravo


    PaulieD wrote: »
    Pray tell who are they elected to serve?
    "The people".
    I think you should read the Irish Constitution.
    I have.

    Do you honestly believe that the Irish government has absolutely no responsibility whatsoever to anybody who isn't an Irish citizen? If so, how do you reconcile that view with, well, reality?


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    #41
    Serenity Now!
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,326 ✭✭✭Serenity Now!


    PaulieD wrote: »
    Show me the error of my ways, oh wise one.

    Assuming immigrants cannot be nationals. Thats a biggie for a start.


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    #42
    PaulieD
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 932 ✭✭✭PaulieD


    Serenity Now! wrote: »
    Assuming immigrants cannot be nationals. Thats a biggie for a start.

    Do you know the difference between an Irish national and an immigrant?:rolleyes:


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    #43
    Liam Byrne
    Closed Accounts Posts: 18,163 ✭✭✭✭Liam Byrne


    PaulieD wrote: »
    You are preaching to the converted. The illegals in the states should be deported, and the bill presented to the Irish government.

    a) why should we pay for people who took a gamble and did something illegal ?

    b) until such time as they ARE sent home, and the Government stops campaigning for them, we would be 100% hypocritical to send anyone else home

    My point was that you said that visas were required to work in the U.S., etc. Officially they are, but it seems to be perfectly OK for people to take a gamble, break the law, and then fall back on the Government to campaign on their behalf.

    The international equivalent of the stroke-pullers with contacts who apply for "planning permission [retention of]".


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    #44
    holidayhere
    Closed Accounts Posts: 113 ✭✭holidayhere


    dianababyddori wrote: »
    In my local town, tomorrow will be the election for the town council.
    What amuses alot of people is a independant polish canditate running for election:

    Is This the start of a new generation.

    Whats Your views????
    I say fair play.
    If they get elected, then they obviously represent some people.


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    #45
    PaulieD
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 932 ✭✭✭PaulieD


    oscarBravo wrote: »
    "The people". I have.

    Do you honestly believe that the Irish government has absolutely no responsibility whatsoever to anybody who isn't an Irish citizen? If so, how do you reconcile that view with, well, reality?

    They have a moral responsibility, not a constitutional one. Show me where the constitution refers to non nationals? You cannot because it does not.


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    #46
    oscarBravo
    Technology & Internet Moderators Posts: 28,792 Mod ✭✭✭✭oscarBravo


    PaulieD wrote: »
    They have a moral responsibility, not a constitutional one.
    What moral responsibility?
    Show me where the constitution refers to non nationals? You cannot because it does not.
    Show me where the constitution says that the government's sole responsibility is to Irish citizens.


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    #47
    Liam Byrne
    Closed Accounts Posts: 18,163 ✭✭✭✭Liam Byrne


    PaulieD wrote: »
    They have a moral responsibility, not a constitutional one. Show me where the constitution refers to non nationals? You cannot because it does not.

    So you'd prefer if hardworking Polish people weren't represented, while home-grown scumbags and leeches were ?

    After all, if the criteria is what's on your passport, we should probably elect a few of the religious orders that abused kids too, ahead of this Polish guy....


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    #48
    markopantelic
    Closed Accounts Posts: 538 ✭✭✭markopantelic


    :confused: what is 'native irish'?

    and lol **** the irish constitution tbh.


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    #49
    holidayhere
    Closed Accounts Posts: 113 ✭✭holidayhere


    dianababyddori wrote: »
    In my local town, tomorrow will be the election for the town council.
    What amuses alot of people is a independant polish canditate running for election:

    Is This the start of a new generation.

    Whats Your views????
    I say fair play.
    If he gets elected, then he is obviously represents some local views.

    I bet he spells better than this :
    What amuses alot of people is a independant polish canditate running for election


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    #50
    oscarBravo
    Technology & Internet Moderators Posts: 28,792 Mod ✭✭✭✭oscarBravo


    Spelling flames are lame, tbh.


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    #51
    PaulieD
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 932 ✭✭✭PaulieD


    markopantelic wrote: »
    :confused: what is 'native irish'?

    and lol **** the irish constitution tbh.

    Good man. A native Irish person is somebody who was born and bred here to an Irish parent. Otherwise known as an Irish citizen.


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    #52
    PaulieD
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 932 ✭✭✭PaulieD


    oscarBravo wrote: »
    What moral responsibility? Show me where the constitution says that the government's sole responsibility is to Irish citizens.

    I dont carry a copy of the Irish Constitution around with me.

    Are you suggesting somebody just off a plane from Warsaw to Dublin is covered under the Irish Constitution?:rolleyes:


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    #53
    Liam Byrne
    Closed Accounts Posts: 18,163 ✭✭✭✭Liam Byrne


    PaulieD wrote: »
    Good man. A native Irish person is somebody who was born and bred here to an Irish parent. Otherwise known as an Irish citizen.

    Only ONE Irish parent ?

    And what about someone whose parents moved here from abroad when that person was 1 year old ? Are they "Irish" ?

    God help the Irish soccer team if you ever get your way!


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    #54
    oscarBravo
    Technology & Internet Moderators Posts: 28,792 Mod ✭✭✭✭oscarBravo


    PaulieD wrote: »
    I dont carry a copy of the Irish Constitution around with me.
    http://www.taoiseach.gov.ie/upload/static/256.htm
    Are you suggesting somebody just off a plane from Warsaw to Dublin is covered under the Irish Constitution?:rolleyes:
    Are you suggesting that the government has no responsibility for such a person? That if (say) that person got mugged, the law does not provide for their attacker to be prosecuted?


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    #55
    PaulieD
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 932 ✭✭✭PaulieD


    Liam Byrne wrote: »
    So you'd prefer if hardworking Polish people weren't represented, while home-grown scumbags and leeches were ?

    After all, if the criteria is what's on your passport, we should probably elect a few of the religious orders that abused kids too, ahead of this Polish guy....

    I never said that and I would appreciate if you did not put words in my mouth. Yes we have social problems and yes the religous orders must be brought to justice, unfortuantely these people are Irish citizens, but they are our problem.

    What does that have to do with immigration? We have problems, yes. As does every nation in the world.


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    #56
    PaulieD
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 932 ✭✭✭PaulieD


    oscarBravo wrote: »
    http://www.taoiseach.gov.ie/upload/static/256.htm Are you suggesting that the government has no responsibility for such a person? That if (say) that person got mugged, the law does not provide for their attacker to be prosecuted?

    That would fall under Irish Law. Do you think said person arriving in Dublin from Warsaw has the same entitlements as Irish citizens? If so, what is the point of citizenship?


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    #57
    oscarBravo
    Technology & Internet Moderators Posts: 28,792 Mod ✭✭✭✭oscarBravo


    PaulieD wrote: »
    That would fall under Irish Law.
    Which is created by...?
    Do you think said person arriving in Dublin from Warsaw has the same entitlements as Irish citizens? If so, what is the point of citizenship?
    Now you're moving the goalposts. You tried to claim that the government has no responsibility to anyone other than Irish citizens. That claim is patently false.


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    #58
    Liam Byrne
    Closed Accounts Posts: 18,163 ✭✭✭✭Liam Byrne


    PaulieD wrote: »
    I never said that and I would appreciate if you did not put words in my mouth.

    I did not put words in your mouth - I asked a question - that's why there was one of these - ? - at the end of the sentence.

    You indicated that the Polish guy should not be eligible, because he's not Irish.

    I was merely asking whether you'd choose a home-grown, born and bred Irish person over a Polish one....and if that's the only criteria then we'd be in trouble, because there are LOTS of reasons why particular Irish people shouldn't be voted for.

    Given a born-and-bred Irish FF lackey versus a Polish guy, I know who I'd vote for.


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    #59
    Serenity Now!
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,326 ✭✭✭Serenity Now!


    PaulieD wrote: »
    Do you know the difference between an Irish national and an immigrant?:rolleyes:
    Judging by a later post of yours in this thread, you haven't got the foggiest yourself.


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    #60
    Serenity Now!
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,326 ✭✭✭Serenity Now!


    PaulieD wrote: »
    Good man. A native Irish person is somebody who was born and bred here to an Irish parent. Otherwise known as an Irish citizen.
    I'm an Irish national.
    Was not born here. Neither of my parents were born here and we're all Irish citizens.

    You seem very confused, fella.


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    #61
    KINGVictor
    Registered Users Posts: 1,184 ✭✭✭KINGVictor


    PaulieD wrote: »
    You have completely changed your views because one person made a comment. Why is that? Be honest in your beliefs and dont be swayed by others.

    From reading your post it was obvious you hope she did not get in. Il be honest and admit it would worry me if immigrant candidates started to win seats in the dail as they mostly pander to their own fellow nationals.

    But you wont have any problem referring to those immigrants as Irish if they turn out to be successful.

    If we can allow "non native Irish " to play for the national soccer team or claim them to be Irish when they become music stars or even the US president-O'Bama,then it is only right that they have the right to seek political office in Ireland.


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