RTE - the end is nigh - high wages come home to roost

Aidric

My name is URL wrote: »

How can you say you'd be glad for them to go under..? One of Ireland's best and oldest commercial assets, typical fcuking bellyaching by those with nothing better to do

Sure they have poor content, **** presenters etc

But improving and adapting to the modern market would be better than going under imo

Agreed. It's knee jerk nonsense to suggest the state broadcaster should be let go to the wall.
There have been many crimes committed by RTE, Winning Streak being the worst but they provide a good standard of programming imo, in all areas apart from light entertainment. Their website content is also good.
The salary structure is obviously way out of sink at the organisation and it won't be any harm to cull numbers and introduce further pay cuts but let's stop the calls for total wipeout.

Terry

Bunch of know-nothing-know-it-alls.

RTÉ are not going anywhere.
Why?
Because the people of this country won't let it happen.

Now all you hipsters out there might turn your nose up at their programming in favour of the far more sophisticated Hollyoaks on E4, but the country does not revolve around you.

Fair City? Not my cup of tea, but it still pulls in about half a million viewers.
Same with the late late.

A couple of hundred thousand for other show.
Then you have the soccer fans jerking off to Giles and Dunphy. The rugger buggers buggering each other while wearing Ryle Nugent masks (what sort of name is Ryle anyway?).
The list goes on.

So you can all sit there and moan about Ryan and Kenny and all the other dicks, but will one of you do anything to get rid of them?
Not a chance.

Just knit me some seatbelts. It's a bit more productive.

RGDATA!

salonfire wrote: »

What purpose does a state broadcaster actually serve?...We read how we can't allow the state broadcaster fail,etc

Question is why not??

simply, it puts out tv and radio programs that serve the public interest and are not purely driven by commercial factors. if you compare and contrast rte rith tv3 or bbc with utv you should get the idea. the problem you see repeatedly in these threads is that a lot of people who whine about RTE have a fairly short-sighted and selfish view of what serving the public means: for example "I don't like the Late Late, therefore everyone in RTE should be shot and our license fee refunded"

dorothygale

Venom wrote: »

Poor RTE boo hoo. Maybe if they had of run the station properly instead of like an overpaid old boys club they wouldnt be in this mess. But they didnt so **** em

Agreed. Completely.

The only thing I watch RTÉ for is the news. Last December I had moved to a new apartment in Smithfield and as I am just not a big TV watcher I decided the free to air channels would be fine... couldn't tune any of them in for the life of me... and this has been the case everywhere I've lived in this country.

The programming is awful, why they don't pull a Channel four and get young and creative people in there I'll never know.

Dennis the Stone

It could never happen anyway. Imagine an Ireland where TV3 was the main channel. There would be mass suicides.

Venom

Terry wrote: »

So you can all sit there and moan about Ryan and Kenny and all the other dicks, but will one of you do anything to get rid of them?
Not a chance.

And how would we do something about it o ye of all the answers?

Any other company who I dont wish to support I can simply not pay for/purchase there product. This is not the case with RTE whose product by law I have to pay for just for owning a TV

RGDATA!

dorothygale wrote: »

The programming is awful, why they don't pull a Channel four and get young and creative people in there I'll never know.

channel four? apart from the decent graphics/titles what is so innovative about channel four these days? (honest question).

Venom

Tago Mago wrote: »

It could never happen anyway. Imagine an Ireland where TV3 was the main channel. There would be mass suicides.

Dunno about this tbh. In this day and age how many people are limited to just having access to the Irish TV channels?

rubadub

Terry wrote: »

RTÉ are not going anywhere.
Why?
Because the people of this country won't let it happen.

The politicans won't let it happen, it would look bad to see a country's state owned broadcaster go down.

Terry wrote: »

Fair City? Not my cup of tea, but it still pulls in about half a million viewers.
Same with the late late.

Many watch it since it is "just on", many would not willingly subscribe to those channels if they were given the choice. This is why many people have an issue with RTE, if you own a TV capable of receiving a signal and only watch DVDs on it you are still legally obliged to pay overpaid presenters salaries. People with "dodgy boxes" watch all sorts of crap on channels they would never dream of subscribing to.

Terry wrote: »

So you can all sit there and moan about Ryan and Kenny and all the other dicks, but will one of you do anything to get rid of them?
Not a chance.

Not a chance of people even bothering to do anything, since as already said there is no chance of them going. So whats the point, what could anybody try. They have a cosy little setup, rtes site says 99% of peoples homes should have a licence. So they have legally obliged you to take up their subscription. You already said loads are tuning into it, so why the obligation, why not let people subscribe if they want, just like sky sports. Because they are rightly scared sh*tless that feck all people would pay those fees.

Murt10

Have a look at this link

http://www.rte.ie/performinggroups/

There seems to be a (1) RTÉ National Symphony Orchestra (2) RTÉ Concert Orchestra (3) RTÉ Vanbrugh Quartet (4) RTÉ Philharmonic Choir and (5) RTÉ Cór na nÓg

How many f/t musicians are employed in these groups? How many back up/administrative/management staff. What is their total budget and do they represent value for money. How much do they bring in to RTE annually?

How many people would even notice if they were closed down in the morning.

I would ask similar questions regarding the garda and army musicians. Do these musicians do ordinary garda and army work or are thet full time musicians..

My name is URL

Venom wrote: »

And how would we do something about it o ye of all the answers?

Any other company who I dont wish to support I can simply not pay for/purchase there product. This is not the case with RTE whose product by law I have to pay for just for owning a TV

You 'need' a TV License regardless of whether it's capable of receiving RTE or not, it's to do with the apparatus, not the broadcasts you watch

Q. Do I require a TV Licence even though I do not use my TV for watching broadcasts?
A. Yes. The position is that a television set constitutes apparatus for wireless telegraphy as defined in the Wireless Telegraphy Acts, 1926 to 1988. Under these Acts, it is an offence to possess apparatus for wireless telegraphy except under and in accordance with a licence. Accordingly, a television set must be licensed regardless of its capability to receive RTÉ or any other broadcasting service.

http://www.dcenr.gov.ie/Broadcasting/Frequently+Asked+Questions/Television+Licence+FAQ/Television+Licence+FAQ.htm#10

Terry

Venom wrote: »

And how would we do something about it o ye of all the answers?

Any other company who I dont wish to support I can simply not pay for/purchase there product. This is not the case with RTE whose product by law I have to pay for just for owning a TV

I don't have all the answers. I never professed that I did.
However, if you were to do something, then I would suggest a grass roots campaign to,
1. Get the wages lowered for those who you feel do not deserve it.
2. Push for a digital service which would prevent access to RTÉ for those without a licence, leaving the licence fee there for those who want to watch the channels.
3. Lobby your local TD about these problems and get him or her to bring it up in the Dail.
4. get people to sign a petition for your cause. Not an on-line petition because they are not worth the paper they're not written on. An actual petition where you go door to door or stop people on the street.
5. If needs be, you could form a protest outside the station's HQ in Donnybrook.
6. Send out leaflets or pamphlets letting people know what your agenda is.
7.Get someone running for office to support your campaign.

Thast's just off the top of my head.
If you really want things to change, then you have to work for it.
It doesn't just fall into your lap.

Any further questions?

themont85

Murt10 wrote: »

Have a look at this link

http://www.rte.ie/performinggroups/

There seems to be a (1) RTÉ National Symphony Orchestra (2) RTÉ Concert Orchestra (3) RTÉ Vanbrugh Quartet (4) RTÉ Philharmonic Choir and (5) RTÉ Cór na nÓg

How many f/t musicians are employed in these groups? How many back up/administrative/management staff. What is their total budget and do they represent value for money. How much do they bring in to RTE annually?

How many people would even notice if they were closed down in the morning.

I would ask similar questions regarding the garda and army musicians. Do these musicians do ordinary garda and army work or are thet full time musicians..

Quite a few actually, just because you don't like something doesn't mean others don't,i'm sick of reading this thread tbh. Most of the shows people are bitching about are pulling good figures in, RTÉ are suffering from 1)fragmention of the market 2)Ad revenue in the media collapsing. Sure people are overpaid now in this climate, serious adjustments will have to be made.

Venom

My name is URL wrote: »

You 'need' a TV License regardless of whether it's capable of receiving RTE or not, it's to do with the apparatus, not the broadcasts you watch



http://www.dcenr.gov.ie/Broadcasting/Frequently+Asked+Questions/Television+Licence+FAQ/Television+Licence+FAQ.htm#10

And the money from said TV License goes to RTE to pay for its overpaid and under talented "superstars". The license money does not pay for better equipment or facilities like road tax and its only NEEDED because the law says so. Hell why not have a fresh air tax as we NEED fresh air :rolleyes:

ionix5891

if they raise the bloody tv license in order to continue paying for a **** tv station that i never watch i will flip

Venom

Terry wrote: »

I don't have all the answers. I never professed that I did.
However, if you were to do something, then I would suggest a grass roots campaign to,
1. Get the wages lowered for those who you feel do not deserve it.
2. Push for a digital service which would prevent access to RTÉ for those without a licence, leaving the licence fee there for those who want to watch the channels.
3. Lobby your local TD about these problems and get him or her to bring it up in the Dail.
4. get people to sign a petition for your cause. Not an on-line petition because they are not worth the paper they're not written on. An actual petition where you go door to door or stop people on the street.
5. If needs be, you could form a protest outside the station's HQ in Donnybrook.
6. Send out leaflets or pamphlets letting people know what your agenda is.
7.Get someone running for office to support your campaign.

Thast's just off the top of my head.
If you really want things to change, then you have to work for it.
It doesn't just fall into your lap.

Any further questions?

Terry I agree 100% with every one of those points but honestly If they were acted on do you honestly thing the current bull**** situation would change?

thebman

My name is URL wrote: »

You 'need' a TV License regardless of whether it's capable of receiving RTE or not, it's to do with the apparatus, not the broadcasts you watch



http://www.dcenr.gov.ie/Broadcasting/Frequently+Asked+Questions/Television+Licence+FAQ/Television+Licence+FAQ.htm#10

That is the official line yes but we all know its complete bollocks!

Seriously if the shows are so popular let it live off the revenue it pulls in.

There are a lot of people who'd gladly not pay a subscription for RTE. Let us have our way and then let them live on the money they should realistically have to run.

Shouting public service broadcaster is bollocks as they do what they are told by the big boys and are not impartial.

I'd rather pay the UK TV license and get BBC's service than continue paying for RTE. They don't offer anything a private company can't offer like TV3 but it costs twice as much when its RTE for some reason. Pay for TV license and ads and for what?

The popular shows would still get aired on a private station since their profitable and popular. The only thing that would suffer is the things that can't pull in the audience to cover their costs.

RGDATA!

Venom wrote: »

And the money from said TV License goes to RTE to pay for its overpaid and under talented "superstars". The license money does not pay for better equipment or facilities like road tax and its only NEEDED because the law says so. Hell why not have a fresh air tax as we NEED fresh air :rolleyes:

while I'd agree the wages are excessive, the "superstars" are paying their way in RTE for the most part - the Late Late/Pat Kenny's Radio Show, Gerry Ryan's show and TV stuff, Ryan Tubridy's stuff...while I'm not a big fan of most of these they are pulling in the viewers, and thus generating the advertising revenue to pay for their shows. None of these shows are running at a loss for RTE, so in that particular sense they are not being subsidised by the license fee. So I think you're wrong to frame it as though "the reason the license fee is high is because Gerry Ryan, the bollocks, is getting overpaid"

Terry

Venom wrote: »

And the money from said TV License goes to RTE to pay for its overpaid and under talented "superstars". The license money does not pay for better equipment or facilities like road tax and its only NEEDED because the law says so. Hell why not have a fresh air tax as we NEED fresh air :rolleyes:

That's on the way.

Venom wrote: »

Terry I agree 100% with every one of those points but honestly If they were acted on do you honestly thing the current bull**** situation would change?

It wouldn't hurt to try.

rubadub

My name is URL wrote: »

You 'need' a TV License regardless of whether it's capable of receiving RTE or not, it's to do with the apparatus, not the broadcasts you watch

It is to do with being able to receive RTE, this is the problem, they have presumed if you have something capable of viewing broadcasts then it is capable of watching RTE and therefore you are obliged to pay for a subscription you might not use. That legal wording was just to close possible loopholes.

It is not just some "luxury" tax that just goes to the government

http://www.rte.ie/about/licence.html

What is the licence fee used for?
The greater proportion of RTÉ's activities are public service activities but the cost of providing these services is well in excess of the amount of public funding received in the form of Licence Fee revenue. As a result RTÉ is critically reliant on a Dual Public / Commercial funding model and must engage in ancillary commercial activities aimed at generating commercial revenues to bridge the gap in public funding received.

The accompanying pie-chart shows the attribution of Licence Fee revenues, received by RTÉ during 2007, to some of the public service activities carried out. The table following separately sets out a representation of how the proportion of each Licence Fee received was utilised during 2007 as RTÉ neither receives, nor is entitled to the benefit of, all of the Licence Fee monies collected.

99% of household "should" have a licence, many do not, if they are going to force you to buy this service then just include it in normal taxes, why all the admin and court chasing etc involved with the current system.

I have asked in other threads why don't they introduce a cooker licence. I expect a similar 99% of households have a cooker these days. The government could issue households with recipes and/or food for the bargain €160 per year. If you do not like the recipes/food then STFU, just bin it, let it go to waste, like unwatched TV, someone out there might enjoy the food, nobody is forcing you to eat it, just forcing you to pay for it.

People are watching these programs, maybe they do not have much choice of channels. If there were allowed spend that €160 on other subscription channels or had the money to buy dvds they might not be watching fair city.
But it is presumed they do like it. I expect if they forced people to have the cooker licence people might eat food they do not particularly like just to not let it go to waste, and since they already paid for it and cannot afford an alternative.

Linku

Murt10 wrote: »

Have a look at this link

http://www.rte.ie/performinggroups/

There seems to be a (1) RTÉ National Symphony Orchestra (2) RTÉ Concert Orchestra (3) RTÉ Vanbrugh Quartet (4) RTÉ Philharmonic Choir and (5) RTÉ Cór na nÓg

How many f/t musicians are employed in these groups? How many back up/administrative/management staff. What is their total budget and do they represent value for money. How much do they bring in to RTE annually?

How many people would even notice if they were closed down in the morning.

I would ask similar questions regarding the garda and army musicians. Do these musicians do ordinary garda and army work or are thet full time musicians..

According to http://www.rte.ie/about/licence.html 7.7% of Licence revenue collected by RTÉ goes to these groups.

I know it's not always fair to compare to the BBC, but wouldn't you expect these figures to be somewhat in proportion to theirs? Obviously there's going to be economies of scale for the BBC, but this still doesn't seem right:

Service - RTÉ / BBC

TV Channel 1 - 42.5% / 34%
TV Channel 2 - 23.3% / 15%
Radio* - 21.5% / 10%


* Radio only includes Radio One, Lyric and RnaG for RTÉ, and Radio 1, 2, 3, 4 and Five Live for the BBC. RTÉ don't use licence fee money for 2fm, or the website, where as the Beeb do.

ionix5891

Linku wrote: »

According to http://www.rte.ie/about/licence.html 7.7% of Licence revenue collected by RTÉ goes to these groups.

I know it's not always fair to compare to the BBC, but wouldn't you expect these figures to be somewhat in proportion to theirs? Obviously there's going to be economies of scale for the BBC, but this still doesn't seem right:

Service - RTÉ / BBC

TV Channel 1 - 42.5% / 34%
TV Channel 2 - 23.3% / 15%
Radio* - 21.5% / 10%


* Radio only includes Radio One, Lyric and RnaG for RTÉ, and Radio 1, 2, 3, 4 and Five Live for the BBC. RTÉ don't use licence fee money for 2fm, or the website, where as the Beeb do.

come one RTE also make alot more money from advertising

not only we get raped with TV license we also have to endure being brain raped by adverts

Mark200

RGDATA! wrote: »

simply, it puts out tv and radio programs that serve the public interest and are not purely driven by commercial factors. if you compare and contrast rte rith tv3 or bbc with utv you should get the idea. the problem you see repeatedly in these threads is that a lot of people who whine about RTE have a fairly short-sighted and selfish view of what serving the public means: for example "I don't like the Late Late, therefore everyone in RTE should be shot and our license fee refunded"

But the point is why should the government force people to pay for something that they do not want or like.... why should we be paying for the filming of Celebrity Bainisteoir for the minority that actually want to see it or have an interest in it. All this whole 'We should keep it because it isn't driven by commercialism, it's a service' is a load of crap. They're driven by commercialism because the more people that watch, the more money they make from advertisements. The only problem is they can't figure out what people want!!

I don't see how rubbish programs like that can be considered a 'service' that's needed for this country.

Saying that, RTE is useful for some things... for example their good website and news. I think RTE 2 should be gotten rid of. They don't have enough quality to fill one station, never mind two. But at least it'll be easier to fill up just one station.

m5ex9oqjawdg2i

They will be bailed out, at our expense... the wages will remain the same and people won't do jack sh!t about it...

phasers

RTÉ! RTÉ! I'll present a show for nothing!


If they gave me the Late late gig they'd nearly have their million a week

thebman

ionix5891 wrote: »

come one RTE also make alot more money from advertising

not only we get raped with TV license we also have to endure being brain raped by adverts

exactly they can't be impartial as long as they have ads.

They are a commercial station so let them compete as one. Why waste peoples money on things they don't want to see?

It doesn't make sense. If something can't survive on its own weight, why should we artificially prop it up?

Linku

Mark200 wrote: »

Saying that, RTE is useful for some things... for example their good website and news. I think RTE 2 should be gotten rid of. They don't have enough quality to fill one station, never mind two. But at least it'll be easier to fill up just one station.

RTÉ2 suffers from terrible scheduling, popular American programs often can't find an audience here because they start after 11:30, as late as 12:30 sometimes on weekdays.
RTÉ2 needs a complete overhaul, if RTÉ3 is launched (unlikely now), all the imported stuff should go on one entertainment channel, instead of shafting good imported programs to late at night in order to show RTÉ programs during primetime that lots of people don't want to see. And RTÉ shouldn't bother showing things like Top Gear, or BBC Nature documentaries weeks after the BBC.

Also, pet hate - shows start at odd times on RTÉ2 which is really annoying if you're trying to remember to watch sometime! "And just a reminder that News on Two will be on at 18 minutes past 11"

Venom

Venom wrote: »

Dunno about this tbh. In this day and age how many people are limited to just having access to the Irish TV channels?

*waves*

From what the article said I'm surprised at how the executive get €12,000 each p.a. just to drive into work.

thebman

I think the reason they show Top Gear is because they tried their own car show and it failed miserably.

They can show whatever they like as long as they don't ask me for money for it.

They even started interrupting their movies to show us the new on two like ITV were doing to prop up their viewing figures. Hello, we are paying for it, we shouldn't have to put up with that crap.

All the news and current affairs stuff is done by other channels at the moment and on radio so why do we need RTE when private stations have demonstrated that it is possible to do it without public funding?

If you are limited to the basic 4 channels, you wouldn't be if they cut the license fee, you could get Sky or NTL and have money left over.

rjt

thebman wrote: »

exactly they can't be impartial as long as they have ads.

They are a commercial station so let them compete as one. Why waste peoples money on things they don't want to see?

It doesn't make sense. If something can't survive on its own weight, why should we artificially prop it up?

Should we stop the bus service too? Some things have to be provided for by the state, even if they run at a loss. And just because you have a car doesn't mean you should be exempt from paying taxes that go towards public transport.

As for ads, if they allow the station to provide more without increasing the licence fee, I think that's fair enough . Looking at the figures here (granted they're from 2007), they earn as much from commercial activities (which primarily seems to be advertising, I couldn't find a proper breakdown) as from TV Licences. I think most people would prefer to put up with the ads rather than pay another 160 euro a year.

It does seem that some people are ridiculously overpaid though, so I'm all for pay cuts. I just disagree with all of this "let it go bankrupt" talk.