If Gods existence was proven...

Coriolanus

Basically, I just finished a really interesting short story about a modern world where God was manifested on a regular basis. Angelic visitations, both Fallen and ... Loyal (?), glimpses of heaven and hell, miracles and so on and so forth.
The basic premise that the existence of Jehovah was more or less indisputable.

What really interested me was an account of how even in the face of all this, there were still large groups of people who refused to worship, on moral grounds.

So, I'm wondering, as an atheist or otherwise, if Gods existence was proven (by whatever criteria it'd require for you), would you worship or turn away, do you think?

I'd like to think that I wouldn't be sufficiently cowed to back down on a position I arrived at through a lot of thought and introspection. I rejected the worship of God before I became atheist, ie: what I saw of the church, and the bible, and the world, was incompatible with my own internal moral standards. Actually flirted with some gnostic texts before rejecting the whole idea wholesale.

Edit: Poll there, I think I covered all the relevant povs.

Thomas_S_Hunterson

If a gods existence was proven it would be ridiculous to turn away.

It would be like maintainging that the sun revolves around the earth.

Coriolanus

I'm non-Christian but otherwise religious and I'd convert.

Sean_K wrote: »

If a gods existence was proven it would be ridiculous to turn away.

It would be like maintainging that the sun revolves around the earth.

No, not quite. In this case, the person beleives in it's existence but for whatever reason doesn't beleive that the god in question deserves/is worthy etc of worship or obeisance.

Hagar

I'd start a class action suit against him on behalf of those he should have taken care of a bit better than he did.

Genghiz Cohen

I'm non-Christian but otherwise religious and I'd convert.

I would acknowledge him, but never worship him.

Saruman

Im not sure there is a poll option for me. I used to believe in God, now I do not or at least I certainly believe no religion on earth is even close.

If God was proved, it would depend on what he wanted. If there is a God, I doubt he is so needy as to require us to worship him or accept Christ and repent for "sins" which we never actually commit ourselves.

It would all boil down to what God wants from us.

Jesus1222

I'm non-Christian but otherwise religious and I'd convert.

If you're talking about the Biblical God then you would only worship out of fear. That God is has a vindictive, contradictory personality. If you're talking about a being we would understand to be God, then it would depend on the nature of this "God".

Hivemind187

If god existed it would imply that he/she was a quantity that could be measured - especially if he/she was made manifest.

This universe has finite space and finite materials available. Therefore, there would be a limit on the entity of "god". Limitations defy the omnipotence claim.

Cutting a long story short it implies that god can be questioned. If said god answers these questions those answers are subject to analysis by those hearing them. We could, in effect, debate with god.

This means we could ask him/her to justify the things that he/she perpetrated (atrocities etc).

I doubt there is an answer that he/she could give that would satisfy many of us that it was justifiable to lie and murder in such a position.

Of course if there really were a God he or she could simply alter reality to make us believe anything we wanted (assuming the omnipotence bit again).

Galvasean

I would never bow down to such a tyrant! :mad:

I say that now...

Goduznt Xzst

Eh, this poll fails... there's no "You will receive force powers and a lightsaber if you worship him"

I'm open to the idea that a powerful God like being exists, heck I'd say most rational Atheists are. I'd worship an advanced Alien race if it would grant me immortality for 80 odd years of obeisance (what's a humans lifetime when compared with infinity)

Again, like all religions, it's all about returns and what the individual selfishly desires.

But in your scenario, the Atheists would be the equivalent of Creationists now, denying the existence of cold hard facts that are staring them in the face.

sink

I'm an atheist/agnostic and it wouldn't change a thing.

I wouldn't worship him without a decent reason, but I woudn't deny his existence.

Jesus1222

I'm non-Christian but otherwise religious and I'd convert.

Hivemind187 wrote: »

If god existed it would imply that he/she was a quantity that could be measured - especially if he/she was made manifest.

This universe has finite space and finite materials available. Therefore, there would be a limit on the entity of "god". Limitations defy the omnipotence claim.

Cutting a long story short it implies that god can be questioned. If said god answers these questions those answers are subject to analysis by those hearing them. We could, in effect, debate with god.

This means we could ask him/her to justify the things that he/she perpetrated (atrocities etc).

I doubt there is an answer that he/she could give that would satisfy many of us that it was justifiable to lie and murder in such a position.

Of course if there really were a God he or she could simply alter reality to make us believe anything we wanted (assuming the omnipotence bit again).

It's a hypothetical question. A thinking point. Not a literal scenario to be picked apart.

Galvasean

Hagar wrote: »

I'd start a class action suit against him on behalf of those he should have taken care of a bit better than he did.

Handsome Bob

If "God" gave the population of this world an audience and explained why there is so much suffering in this world then I might worship him. I wouldn't worship a God that remained a loof and that didn't feel he had to explain himself to his lower beings.

faceman

Its a very ideallic question and one that would never come to fruition IMO. Nor would i want it to (as a Christian) as it undermines the premise of faith.

Coriolanus

I'm non-Christian but otherwise religious and I'd convert.

Yeah, I mean the Christian God.

And no, it wouldn't put atheists in the position of Creationists. As is pretty explicit, his existence in the thought excercise is proven. The question I'm asking is whether or not you'd worship.

Zillah

Does Hell exist?

If no, then screw you God you're a jerk.

If yes, then I will fall to my knees and praise him in his glory and forcibly brain wash myself to accept Jesus Christ as my saviour. And I'll call anyone who is all like "No I won't do it on moral grounds" a total idiot for choosing to put themselves in agony for eternity. Nothing is worth that. Nothing.

Luckily the scenario is so absurd I'm barely even going to contemplate it.

Dades

Zillah wrote: »

Luckily the scenario is so absurd I'm barely even going to contemplate it.

You totally already contemplated it.

Genghiz Cohen

I'm non-Christian but otherwise religious and I'd convert.

Dades wrote: »

You totally already contemplated it.

Pwnt

Zillah

Er, maybe I'm missing a joke here or something but I specifically said "barely contemplate", as in I took two or three seconds to contemplate it and responded.

faceman wrote: »

Its a very ideallic question and one that would never come to fruition IMO. Nor would i want it to (as a Christian) as it undermines the premise of faith.

You're so hilariously brain washed it's horrible. It's an ingenious trick that religion has pulled to convince people that in the absence of evidence having belief is a good thing...but to go so far as to say you'd rather not have evidence because that some how lessens faith...mind boggling. Absolutely mind boggling.

Seems to me that a God that actually existed wouldn't care so much about blind faith. A God that doesn't actually exist...now that would have all sorts of reasons to require blind belief.

Zillah

Mind boggling.

pinksoir

Zillah wrote: »

Mind boggling.

Extremely mind boggling.

Handsome Bob

Whoever said this place wasn't confrontational?;)

Genghiz Cohen

I'm non-Christian but otherwise religious and I'd convert.

LZ5by5 wrote: »

Whoever said this place wasn't confrontational?;)

Shut up! No one said that!




:pac:

pts

LZ5by5 wrote: »

Whoever said this place wasn't confrontational?;)

Behead those who say Atheism is violent

faceman

Zillah wrote: »

You're so hilariously brain washed it's horrible. It's an ingenious trick that religion has pulled to convince people that in the absence of evidence having belief is a good thing...but to go so far as to say you'd rather not have evidence because that some how lessens faith...mind boggling. Absolutely mind boggling.

Seems to me that a God that actually existed wouldn't care so much about blind faith. A God that doesn't actually exist...now that would have all sorts of reasons to require blind belief.

Brainwashed by who exactly and in what way?

You say that its hilarious? Is the moral or spiritual well being of an individual funny because it doesnt have the same foundation of your belief? Would you rather people agree with you, regardless of what they believe themselves because it would make you feel better and would be less hilarious?

I guess ignorance isnt just reserved for those who have some form of religion.

Max Power1

I'm an atheist/agnostic and it wouldn't change a thing.

I am an atheist by rationalisation - obviously if the existance of hypothetical a god or gods can be proven beyond reasonable doubt, than i would have to "believe". The thing is, at that point it wouldnt be a "belief", it would be a "fact".

I wouldnt have a blind faith in religion - in the same manner, i dont have a blind faith in atheism either.

AnotherYou

I'm an atheist/agnostic and it wouldn't change a thing.

I think there's a better question here, well, a different one.

For all the believers in god, Imagine for a second we managed to prove there was a DIFFERENT god, for example a jewish bhuddist or muslim god, or perhaps an even more far-fetched god we'd never even heard of.

But imagine this god existed, and we somehow learned of his/her/its existance undoubtedly. Would you abandon your current "faith" or would you chalk this up to the "trying to test our faith" arguement?

I always love seeing how the human mind can rely so much on identity that when the believes someone has used to define themselves are threatened, All bets are off and the name of the game is "make up as far fetched a story to explain why I'm still right to think what I think"

And that applies to athiests and theists


I hear its called spiritual materialism.

Micky Dolenz

faceman wrote: »

Its a very ideallic question and one that would never come to fruition IMO. Nor would i want it to (as a Christian) as it undermines the premise of faith.

If it were to happen, I don't think we would actually see God, but instead, proof of Gods existance.
Aren't Christians meant to belive that Jesus will come again on judgement day? If so, when the second coming happens, that will be the proof.

AnotherYou

I'm an atheist/agnostic and it wouldn't change a thing.

Micky Dolenz wrote: »

If it were to happen, I don't think we would actually see God, but instead, proof of Gods existance.
Aren't Christians meant to belive that Jesus will come again on judgement day? If so, when the second coming happens, that will be the proof.

I'll wait here shall I?

Genghiz Cohen

I'm non-Christian but otherwise religious and I'd convert.

AnotherYou wrote: »

I'll wait here shall I?

I'll bring drinks.

Goduznt Xzst

faceman wrote: »

Nor would i want it to (as a Christian) as it undermines the premise of faith.

faceman wrote: »

You say that its hilarious?

No it's hilarious because your brain is so illogical. To analogize for you

We surveyed 100 people and asked them would they rather be given 10 million euro, or play the lotto in the hope of winning 10 million euro.

You answered, play the lotto

Our survey says... EH EHHHHHHH

Mena

I'm non-Christian but otherwise religious and I'd convert.

Genghiz Cohen wrote: »

I'll bring drinks.

Bring ice, it's gonna be a looooooong wait.

Handsome Bob

Genghiz Cohen wrote: »

Shut up! No one said that!




:pac:

I must have had imagined it so.:p

AnotherYou

I'm an atheist/agnostic and it wouldn't change a thing.

Mena wrote: »

Bring ice, it's gonna be a looooooong wait.

Just till the end of time, Cuppa for me Genghiz, and whatever your having yourself.:rolleyes:

MrPudding

I'm non-Christian but otherwise religious and I'd convert.

I chose the atheist / nothing would change option, but it is not strictly accurate.

I the existence of god was proven to me I would obviously not be an atheist any more, so obviously that would be a change.

I would not want to worship it though, as I do not believe it is worthy of worship.

MrP

Coriolanus

I'm non-Christian but otherwise religious and I'd convert.

MrPudding wrote: »

I chose the atheist / nothing would change option, but it is not strictly accurate.

Yeah, I'm beginning to see that my wording has left something to be desired.

dvpower

I'm an atheist/agnostic and it wouldn't change a thing.

AnotherYou wrote: »

I think there's a better question here, well, a different one.

For all the believers in god, Imagine for a second we managed to prove there was a DIFFERENT god, for example a jewish bhuddist or muslim god, or perhaps an even more far-fetched god we'd never even heard of.

But imagine this god existed, and we somehow learned of his/her/its existance undoubtedly. Would you abandon your current "faith" or would you chalk this up to the "trying to test our faith" arguement?

Or another one. If you got to heaven and it had a beer volcano and a stripper factory, would you stay?

Dades

AnotherYou wrote: »

I think there's a better question here, well, a different one...

And better kept for another thread, don't you think?

Goduznt Xzst wrote: »

No it's hilarious because your brain is so illogical...

Let's not get into telling people how logical/illogical their brains are - stick with their posts if you have to apply logic to something.

AnotherYou

I'm an atheist/agnostic and it wouldn't change a thing.

dvpower wrote: »

Or another one. If you got to heaven and it had a beer volcano and a stripper factory, would you stay?

I think what your trying to do is make fun of the hypothetical-situation thing we're doing here.

.............good one.

Just incase that was a real question, yes I would, and that would be great.

Micky Dolenz

AnotherYou wrote: »

I'll wait here shall I?

Probably better off doing something else, but hey if it floats your boat, wait.

Genghiz Cohen wrote: »

I'll bring drinks.

Corona please...no lime, Lime is for losers.

Mena wrote: »

Bring ice, it's gonna be a looooooong wait.

You'd better hope so.

AnotherYou

I'm an atheist/agnostic and it wouldn't change a thing.

-- I just needlessly insulted a mod and got banned --

JimiTime

I'm just wondering if it occurs to anyone, to maybe be humbled by the fact that they've obviously got it so wrong, that maybe they'd call to question the worship side also? Seeing how your judgement was an epic fail in the first place, you'd still have faith in yourself?

Genghiz Cohen

I'm non-Christian but otherwise religious and I'd convert.

JimiTime wrote: »

Seeing how your judgement was an epic fail in the first place, you'd still have faith in yourself?

Science is in a constant state of epic fail. It's constantly being proven wrong in one way or another.

I don't count being proven wrong as a failure anyway. I don't like it because I was wrong, but I can be happier knowing I'm now more right.

AnotherYou

I'm an atheist/agnostic and it wouldn't change a thing.

JimiTime wrote: »

I'm just wondering if it occurs to anyone, to maybe be humbled by the fact that they've obviously got it so wrong, that maybe they'd call to question the worship side also? Seeing how your judgement was an epic fail in the first place, you'd still have faith in yourself?

I dont think there'd be any shame in being wrong from the atheist side,
atheists seem so cite on thing over and over and that's "logic".

The reality of it is that I've spent my life systematically realising that, starting with the bible, christianity is complete horse****.

There's no two ways about it for me, no one gives up religion because of one fact. Its clutched at in desperation and frantic bargaining with the inevitable, and its let go in acceptance that it simply isn't real to live life that way.

Borneo Fnctn

It would depend on the circumstances. If I was going to be damned in hell otherwse, I'd kiss arse. If he wasn't an insecure thug I wouldn't bother.

Tigger

if he wanted worshipping i wouldn't think much of him

would he smite those who claimed to do fgood in his name but instead did evil

i'd respect him if he smote people

JimiTime

Genghiz Cohen wrote: »

Science is in a constant state of epic fail. It's constantly being proven wrong in one way or another.

I don't count being proven wrong as a failure anyway. I don't like it because I was wrong, but I can be happier knowing I'm now more right.

Ok, but that avoids the question i asked. Your faith in yourself, and your qom judgement has been misplaced with the OPs scenario. So would you not humble yourself to the idea that you are indeed wrong on the worship idea? Maybe you don't actually know the importance of it? maybe your maker done what was best all along and you are just an idiot who thinks, even after being shown up in this manner, that you are still right about everything else?

All and all, for a bunch who try claim logic as their own, i find alot of you severely lacking here. maybe thats just me though.

Genghiz Cohen

I'm non-Christian but otherwise religious and I'd convert.

JimiTime wrote: »

Ok, but that avoids the question i asked. Your faith in yourself, and your qom judgement has been misplaced with the OPs scenario. So would you not humble yourself to the idea that you are indeed wrong on the worship idea? Maybe you don't actually know the importance of it? maybe your maker done what was best all along and you are just an idiot who thinks, even after being shown up in this manner, that you are still right about everything else?

That is a lot of maybes.
If God loved us and wanted to do what's bes he wouldn't collapse schools, he would have had Jesus educate the masses on the nature of disease and all sorts of other very very very important things.

As for my beliefs, it's wrong until proven right, once proven right it's right until proven wrong.
Being wrong about one thing regardless of scale shouldn't affect unrelated facts.

JimiTime wrote: »

All and all, for a bunch who try claim logic as their own, i find alot of you severely lacking here. maybe thats just me though.

... too easy...

JimiTime

Genghiz Cohen wrote: »

That is a lot of maybes.
If God loved us and wanted to do what's bes he wouldn't collapse schools, he would have had Jesus educate the masses on the nature of disease and all sorts of other very very very important things.

As for my beliefs, it's wrong until proven right, once proven right it's right until proven wrong.
Being wrong about one thing regardless of scale shouldn't affect unrelated facts.



... too easy...

Fair enough.

Zillah

faceman wrote: »

Brainwashed by who exactly and in what way?

By the pro-faith pro-religious culture that has dominated western society for centuries.

In what way? To be convinced that believing in something without evidence is a good thing, and not only that but also that this is better than if there was evidence.

That's absolutely crazy.

You say that its hilarious? Is the moral or spiritual well being of an individual funny because it doesnt have the same foundation of your belief? Would you rather people agree with you, regardless of what they believe themselves because it would make you feel better and would be less hilarious?

Ergh, not really sure what this has to do with the conversation. I suppose hilarious isn't the right word. It's tragic.

I guess ignorance isnt just reserved for those who have some form of religion.

Am I actually displaying ignorance of some relevant facts here or are you just playing a generic martyr card or what?