(23 years on)Search for Philip Cairns to continue for third day

Sharpshooter

Latchy wrote: »

It would be mutch easier to throw somebody into the back of a van then get them into a car without a struggle of some sort .Lack of wintness' s is a bit strange to but the area is , again from memory , a very leafy quite neighbourhood .

True.

But maybe they or he thought the same as you and didn't plan on Philip running thus the books falling from the bag.

/I know it is all speculation on our parts but it is an interesting case

Ann22

Yeah dna's marvellous. Cleared Colin Stagg and caught Rachel Nickell's real killer. Hopefully there's something on the schoolbag. If the killer had it for a week with a bit of luck there's something on it. No doubt it's well preserved.

Ann22

Just thinking there, maybe the kidnapper took the books from the bag as souveneirs, sex killers do that sort of thing...then put the bag back a week later to try and leave a false trail. The lane may not have been the place they'd intended on dumping it. Or maybe it was and they left it close to his home for some kind of sick thrill.

Latchy

Ann22 wrote: »

Yeah dna's marvellous. Cleared Colin Stagg and caught Rachel Nickell's real killer. Hopefully there's something on the schoolbag. If the killer had it for a week with a bit of luck there's something on it. No doubt it's well preserved.

CCCP^ wrote: »

Well, I'd say this guy whose currently in jail is a prime suspect for the murders that went on in the 1990s here, the thing is, I don't think he would be responsible for taking Phillip, don't serial killers just kill one specific target, like if they set out after women, it will just be women they look for?

That was what was baffling about phillps case.It wasn't as if there had being reports of attempted aductions months up to or months after the investigations .Like if one person is abducted it's usually not long before another attempt is made ? strange indeed .

Sharpshooter wrote: »

True.

But maybe they or he thought the same as you and didn't plan on Philip running thus the books falling from the bag.

/I know it is all speculation on our parts but it is an interesting case

I would imagine the books falling from the bag the most likely yes .Lets hope something poitive comes out of these latest investigations.

Ann22

Latchy wrote: »

That's strange because I thought it was the next day the bag appeared in the lane .Sorry for error .

I read it here Latchy on a Missing Irish People site..

On Friday 23 Oct 1986, Philip left Colaiste Eanna Secondary School at 12.45 P.M. and returned to his home on Ballyroan Road, for lunch. He left the house at 1.30 P.M. and walked back to school but never arrived there.

On the following Wednesday, the pupils of the school returned voluntarily to the school during their mid term break to be interviewed by the Gardai. In the afternoon, Philip's school bag appeared in a laneway off Anne Devlin Road, Ballyroan, Dublin. It was found by two school girls. The lane had been searched before this. The bag contained some of Philip's books but his Geography book and two religion books (Christian Way 1 and the Good News New Testament) were missing.

Jesus1222

Latchy wrote: »

That's strange because I thought it was the next day the bag appeared in the lane .Sorry for error .

It's the only real clue as far as I know and it's very strange, even for a case where a boy disappears into thin air. It is possible somebody picked it up off the ground, completely innocently, and just wanted to get rid of it when they realised it could wrongly implicate them in something but the fact there were books missing points to it being somebody involved in it who left it there. It's also a clue, if somebody was holding him somewhere the missing books could be those they wanted him to read. It might point to somebody. In that case you would say it's stupid dumping the bag giving that clue but perhaps dumping the bag like that was a 2-fingered salute to the Gardaí or the boy's family. Possibly interestingly, the day students were voluntarily interviewed over the disappearance is the same day the bag was found, a week on from the disappearance. The lane had been searched, probably many times, beforehand. The person who dumped the bag would have known there was a massive search underway, dumping the bag was quite brazen and more than a bit wreckless had somebody spotted that person.

Reading between the lines of what's in the press, what the Gardaí and family have said over the years it's quite possible they believe it is some relative or somebody known to the family who is responsible. They may be 99% sure it is a certain person but can't say anything, for obvious reasons.

Ann22

CCCP^ wrote: »

Well, I'd say this guy whose currently in jail is a prime suspect for the murders that went on in the 1990s here, the thing is, I don't think he would be responsible for taking Phillip, don't serial killers just kill one specific target, like if they set out after women, it will just be women they look for?

They usually do. Maybe this person was a closet paedophile who noticed child on his own and acted on impulse. Unusual not to repeat it though.
However i've just remembered something else from my Barry cummins book. Philip Cairns' father told the author that in June 2002 a boy was walking on the same stretch of road Philip had been on when a car passed by coming from Rathfarnham area when it did a u-turn, stopped by the boy and a strange driver said 'come on, get in, you're late!' The boy didn't get in. The guards didn't do anything about it as nothing had happened and no one had seen anything but it made Philip's dad wonder if it could possibly be the same man 16yrs later.
What I said in my earlier post about what the witness saw on the day of his disappearance (the red car and the boy approaching the passenger seat)sounds very like this scenario. A boy in his 1st yr at secondary school may have been anxious enough to get into the car.:(

alan4cult

Ann22 wrote: »

They usually do. Maybe this person was a closet paedophile who noticed child on his own and acted on impulse. Unusual not to repeat it though.
However i've just remembered something else from my Barry cummins book. Philip Cairns' father told the author that in June 2002 a boy was walking on the same stretch of road Philip had been on when a car passed by coming from Rathfarnham area when it did a u-turn, stopped by the boy and a strange driver said 'come on, get in, you're late!' The boy didn't get in. The guards didn't do anything about it as nothing had happened and no one had seen anything but it made Philip's dad wonder if it could possibly be the same man 16yrs later.
What I said in my earlier post about what the witness saw on the day of his disappearance (the red car and the boy approaching the passenger seat)sounds very like this scenario. A boy in his 1st yr at secondary school may have been anxious enough to get into the car.:(

I vaguely remember hearing about this and it seemed so strange.

emy-87

I live in Rathfarnham and while I was in school there was a letter sent home every two years or so warning parents that a person in a strange car had tried to persuade kids to get in. As far as I can remember they were different cars and I suppose it happens everywhere, but it did seem to be a bit frequent for the area.

The poor kid. His family must still be in bits about it. I really hope a body will be found, so they can get some peace.

It is terrifying really. There are four schools on that road- two primary and two secondary. My brother and cousins go to one of them. I am sure my mum thinks about it everytime she drops him to school.

shqipshume

Where was Philip last seen exactly and by whom,how close did he get to the school?

Where is that alley way situated,how close to the school or to his home?
I mean how do they know he even got off his own road and isnt one of his neighbours?
In the profile of some paedophiles,perhaps he did know him the person is of younger age than they previously would have thought and he is now married with kids and has been relieving his sick urges in other ways and has no need to do it again,i would say a struggle is unlikely as at a time when children all going back to school from lunch,the area must have been active.I think unlikely a struggle or there would have been evidence of some sort or someone would have heard or seen something.If he did try to run away from a pursuer he would have ran to a house and or someone would have noticed him been chased,Its not like he was in a field out of view.Especially in Ireland back then people noticed these things.
The school bag thing i dont know someone under pretence lured him into their house he took out the books and the abductor had put his hands on them or forgot to put them back in the bag.I definitely think it was a sick taunt at everyone at he/she letting them know they are right under their nose.
If you look at Jamie bolger how old were them murderers?Think about it its quite possible this is someone who started young and offends in all manners of ways.Only other possible explanation is abducted into a car and done very quickly.Then leaves no evidence and possible in them few spilt seconds no one would see.

Elliemental

Degsy wrote: »

Ther was plenty of evidence to suggest there was or is at least one serial killer in ireland but the cops chose to ignore it for some reason.

But why on earth would they cover it up? I hope I don`t sound sound daft asking this.

Is the school bag literally the only clue? Such a sad story.:(

builttospill

I feel as though I've infiltrated a meeting of the Secret 7 here. Most of these posts are hilarious. Keep them coming.

Latchy

builttospill wrote: »

I feel as though I've infiltrated a meeting of the Secret 7 here. Most of these posts are hilarious. Keep them coming.

.Do you have any opinions on the case to offer ?

builttospill

Latchy wrote: »

.Do you have any opinions on the case to offer ?

Dear God...

On the case?

No, because like most people in here I have only read about it in the newspaper which does not qualify me to talk about his disappearance like Inspector Clouseau. To be honest that is just an insult to the poor boy's memory.

In regards to how his disappearance has affected his family-well naturally it must be one of the biggest burdens imaginable.

Latchy

builttospill wrote: »

Dear God...

On the case?

No, because like most people in here I have only read about it in the newspaper which does not qualify me to talk about his disappearance like Inspector Clouseau. To be honest that is just an insult to the poor boy's memory.

In regards to how his disappearance has affected his family-well naturally it must be one of the biggest burdens imaginable.

What about the Madeleine McCann case ,the hundreds ,thousends of posts were people were giving the opinos on what they think could have, or may have happened ? What about the many many blogs set up on many other forums around the world were people like us here ,express there opinions ? You saying we shouldn't have one and express it ? I dont see one post were anybody set themselfs up as Closeau .Of course it's upsetting to his family as it is to the McCanns and all the other dissapeared .But this is a public forum were every topic under the sun iis disscussed .Give people more credit for intelligence. You say Hillarious .Nothing Hillarious about it at all .

builttospill

Latchy wrote: »

What about the Madeleine McCann case ,the hundreds ,thousends of posts were people were giving the opinos on what they think could have, or may have happened ? What about the many many blogs set up on many other forums around the world were people like us here ,express there opinions ? You saying we shouldn't have one and express it ? I dont see one post were anybody set themselfs up as Closeau .Of course it's upsetting to his family as it is to the McCanns and all the other dissapeared .But this is a public forum were every topic under the sun iis disscussed .Give people more credit for intelligence. You say Hillarious .Nothing Hillarious about it at all .

What you just said is a harrowing indictment of modern society. Because of new media everyone has a voice and is dying to be heard. I don't care if millions of people post on message boards. It doesn't make it sound information. Most of these posts are just vanity projects for people to sooth their bruised egos (and it can be argued that I am doing exactly the same) You may think this is harmless but there is an abundance of soft-headed people out there. They read this nonsense and are influenced by it and so the cycle of speculative bullshyte continues. Why do you think Sky News thrives? People are addicted to morbidity. Hence the abundance of posts in this thread.
I, for one, can't stand this and as you said this is a public forum where every topic under the sun is discussed. This means that I have a right to call you and others on your bullshyte.
Give people more credit for intelligence? Jesus wept! Look over the thread and read some of the comments. THEY ARE HILARIOUS! People talking about why Philip Cairns left his bag in a laneway! Turn off CSI and go out for a walk! The subject matter here is fine. It's the speculative sensationalism I find laughable.

AckwelFoley

The difficulty with the case is an apparent lack of evidence..
what can be assumed is that the person responsible for this is not a first time offender and previous to this case would likely have assaulted a similar victim. The difficulty here however ireland is a small jurastiction and its quite possible the culprit is in the uk, where they previously or subsequently offended. Its very likely that the person responsible is in jail now, here or in the uk.. Id suggest if people in jail for crimes that fit a similar profile victim be gathered and establish where they lived or worked between 1985 - 1990.

shqipshume

builttospill wrote: »

What you just said is a harrowing indictment of modern society. Because of new media everyone has a voice and is dying to be heard. I don't care if millions of people post on message boards. It doesn't make it sound information. Most of these posts are just vanity projects for people to sooth their bruised egos (and it can be argued that I am doing exactly the same) You may think this is harmless but there is an abundance of soft-headed people out there. They read this nonsense and are influenced by it and so the cycle of speculative bullshyte continues. Why do you think Sky News thrives? People are addicted to morbidity. Hence the abundance of posts in this thread.
I, for one, can't stand this and as you said this is a public forum where every topic under the sun is discussed. This means that I have a right to call you and others on your bullshyte.
Give people more credit for intelligence? Jesus wept! Look over the thread and read some of the comments. THEY ARE HILARIOUS! People talking about why Philip Cairns left his bag in a laneway! Turn off CSI and go out for a walk! The subject matter here is fine. It's the speculative sensationalism I find laughable.

I find your post snotty and laughable sorry.No one made speculation why he left his bag in the alley.Its been speculated who left it there and why they did that.And some of us were effected by it as we lived through it watching what was happening.I am far from a morbid person and i don't find it at all amusing or i will solve t but trying to understand an hoping they will find something so we can all find some peace of mind.As unlike you oh holier than thou,We feel to talk about it gives us all somewhere to let out what we feel and think about things like this and we don't walk around and forget about it in our every day lives,and brush it under the carpet.
Now grow up when there was no internet people sat in their houses talking about it and it isnt for their ego's cause i far from have one of them,but you seem to have a very big one;)

shqipshume

builttospill wrote: »

Dear God...

On the case?

No, because like most people in here I have only read about it in the newspaper which does not qualify me to talk about his disappearance like Inspector Clouseau. To be honest that is just an insult to the poor boy's memory.

In regards to how his disappearance has affected his family-well naturally it must be one of the biggest burdens imaginable.

And that sentence alone shows how you might be affected by something as tragic as that.Burden is not a word i would use for it.More like turmoil torment and destruction of your spirit and never been the same again.

builttospill

shqipshume wrote: »

I find your post snotty and laughable sorry.No one made speculation why he left his bag in the alley.Its been speculated who left it there and why they did that.And some of us where effected by it as we lived through it watching what was happening.I am far from a morbid person and i don't find it at all amusing or i will solve t but trying to understand an hoping they will find something so we can all find some peace of mind.As unlike you oh holier than thou,We feel to talk about it gives us all somewhere to let out what we feel and think about things like this and we don't walk around and forget about it in our every day lives,and brush it under the carpet.
Now grow up when there was no internet people sat in their houses talking about it and it isnt for their ego's cause i far from have one of them,but you seem to have a very big one;)

Hell hath no fury like a bruised ego scorned. No doubt there will be quite a few posts like this. A bit too close to the bone I imagine.

And please read over the thread again. There are many speculations that insult intelligence. Too many to multi-quote.

builttospill

shqipshume wrote: »

And that sentence alone shows how you might be affected by something as tragic as that.Burden is not a word i would use for it.More like turmoil torment and destruction of your spirit and never been the same again.

Hahahahahahahahahaha. Are you for real? Look up burden in the dictionary. Why am I even replying to this tosh? Makes me just as bad. You have shot yourself in the foot there by picking on a solitary word that has no relevance to the argument at hand while at the same time is in its correct place.

Now if that isn't knit-picking and a holier than thou attitude I don't know what it.

shqipshume

builttospill wrote: »

Hell hath no fury like a bruised ego scorned. No doubt there will be quite a few posts like this. A bit too close to the bone I imagine.

And please read over the thread again. There are many speculations that insult intelligence. Too many to multi-quote.

Far from it sorry cold day in hell before you would bother me lol
I am one of the most least likely people to have an ego or one to bruise sorry to burst your bubble mate.

There is nothing wrong with people showing their interest and also trying to understand how it happened in first place.As it could be someone you know or ur child or anything another day.Its scares people and when new information comes up its is nice to know people still care and remember.
You how ever are tryng to force your will and what you think should be the case just because you dont agree with it.If you dont like the thread stop reading it,you dont have to take part its not about insulting the members and saying they are morbid.
Also when more facts come to light if they do then it will be posted for people to read as they are hoping for closure for the family and for the people who lived near it and who were effected by it.If you do remember it? do you?

And i have read over some of them yes were a little off.It is specualtion and hear say and until there is solid information people arent taking it as gospel.
It wasnt intended as a thread of speculation but rather bring it to fore front of people minds and to share how they feel and wish luck to the family and talk about one of the most bizzare and sad things to happen in Ireland.

shqipshume

builttospill wrote: »

Hahahahahahahahahaha. Are you for real? Look up burden in the dictionary. Why am I even replying to this tosh? Makes me just as bad. You have shot yourself in the foot there by picking on a solitary word that has no relevance to the argument at hand while at the same time is in its correct place.

Now if that isn't knit-picking and a holier than thou attitude I don't know what it.

ego

Latchy

builttospill wrote: »

What you just said is a harrowing indictment of modern society. Because of new media everyone has a voice and is dying to be heard. I don't care if millions of people post on message boards. It doesn't make it sound information. Most of these posts are just vanity projects for people to sooth their bruised egos (and it can be argued that I am doing exactly the same)

Exactly ,every thread on boards has it's vain posters .But we see it for what it is .Dont need you to inform us of that , bruised ego or nay .

You may think this is harmless but there is an abundance of soft-headed people out there. They read this nonsense and are influenced by it and so the cycle of speculative bullshyte continues. Why do you think Sky News thrives? People are addicted to morbidity. Hence the abundance of posts in this thread.

Most intelligent people know sky news for what it is , tabloid journalism on tv . An example is like saying we have to watch this news network to inform us about the horrible abuse commited by cathoilc institutitions ( OH MY GAWD !) when many of us have known that for decades .( pfft) We live in a 24/7, in your face news world anyway .

I, for one, can't stand this and as you said this is a public forum where every topic under the sun is discussed. This means that I have a right to call you and others on your bullshyte

. But I like you and every other boards member dont have freedom of speech .We have opinions and .You will see tons of bull**** under the pretence of ' being informitive ' here every day on boards

Give people more credit for intelligence? Jesus wept! Look over the thread and read some of the comments. THEY ARE HILARIOUS! People talking about why Philip Cairns left his bag in a laneway! Turn off CSI and go out for a walk! The subject matter here is fine. It's the speculative sensationalism I find laughable.

Well in my own case I was there in that area ,on the that road , on the day were phillip cairns went missing .Now that doesn't give me a greater insight or knowledge into the case more than anybody else posting here but it brought back memories of the day and the weeks that followed . Have to agree with ship .Your's is a very snobby post

builttospill

Hmmm...

You just can't argue with them can ya...

I'm off to stick my head in the microwave...

Latchy

Nice and generous of you to thank him ship

another thread about of one the criminals mentioned here in this one Here

Jesus1222

builttospill wrote: »

What you just said is a harrowing indictment of modern society. Because of new media everyone has a voice and is dying to be heard. I don't care if millions of people post on message boards. It doesn't make it sound information. Most of these posts are just vanity projects for people to sooth their bruised egos (and it can be argued that I am doing exactly the same) You may think this is harmless but there is an abundance of soft-headed people out there. They read this nonsense and are influenced by it and so the cycle of speculative bullshyte continues. Why do you think Sky News thrives? People are addicted to morbidity. Hence the abundance of posts in this thread.
I, for one, can't stand this and as you said this is a public forum where every topic under the sun is discussed. This means that I have a right to call you and others on your bullshyte.
Give people more credit for intelligence? Jesus wept! Look over the thread and read some of the comments. THEY ARE HILARIOUS! People talking about why Philip Cairns left his bag in a laneway! Turn off CSI and go out for a walk! The subject matter here is fine. It's the speculative sensationalism I find laughable.

I agree with some of this. You're right, all we know is what we read in newspapers. Yes it's silly sometimes. However we're simply going over what is known. We all have lives, spending a few minutes discussing a 25 year old case which has recently been in the news again isn't a big deal. Some people here lived in the same area. The only person making it a big deal is yourself, the only person massaging their ego is yourself. I wouldn't agree with the morbidity part, sometimes you get the feeling Sky News has been taken over by Chris Morris. The Madeline McCann coverage was actually quite disturbing. I don't agree we're in that territory here. I don't agree that it's sensationalist, as you say yourself all we're doing is looking at what HAS been reported and thinking about what that means. We're not accusing a Satanic Cult as being responsible.

Speculating on famous crimes is something people do. They are interested in what happened to people, people are naturally interested in mysteries and unsolved crimes. Malcolm In The Middle did a hilarious episode on this subject.

Fighting Irish

ibthreadlock

boards.ie ftw

markesmith

In before the lock :eek:

Ann22

Hi Builtospill, I know you won't agree but I think there's no harm being done here. What's best... no one talking about it? Or people thinking of the child and trying to work out what may have happened. I for one said a prayer for him last night before I went to sleep.
There are a few posters on here that live near the area and maybe something will jog their memories and they may think of something significant, you never know.
On the schoolbag thing....(I was reading up on the case again) Philip wore it with the strap wrapped across his body, it wouldn't have fallen off too easily. The police eventually said that the most likely conclusion was that an innocent person had found it and put it there, maybe fearful of becoming involved. That person could even be reading this now.