Man Shot Dead By Gardai During Attempted Robbery

fermoyboy

From breakingnews.ie


One man has died in hospital after being shot by gardaí during an attempted robbery in Lucan, Co. Dublin earlier today.

He was one of two men shot by members of the Organised Crime Unit during the attempted raid on a cash-in-transit van at the Foxborough Road just after midday.

Armed officers had been monitoring the gang and were on the scene as part of 'Operation Delivery' which was set up to combat robberies of high-value goods in transit.

Four men aged in their 20s have been arrested and are currently being detained in Lucan and Ronanstown Garda Stations under Section 30 of the Offences Against the State Act.

“Today's incident is a reminder of the dangers faced by members of An Garda Síochána in carrying out their duties and their courage in confronting those dangers,” Justice Minister Dermot Ahern said following a briefing on the incident from Garda Commissioner Fachtna Murphy.

The Minister said that, while the loss of any life was to be regretted, he had no doubt that An Garda Síochána had the full support of the community in taking whatever action was necessary when confronted by armed gangs.

The Garda Siochána Ombudsman Commission has opened an investigation into the incident, as required by law.

wreckless

gardai 1, scumbags 0

jetski

I assume the raiders were carring guns and fired first? if not the guard who shot him should be suspened and charged.

Turner

Good to hear no members of the public or Gardai were injured.

Ahern is a legend with comments like that.

The gougers know if they come across the ERU, RSU, SDU or OCU, and pull a gun they will get shot dead.

It was very easy to shoot an unarmed motorbike cop wearing a yellow jacket and standing next to a white motorbike and escape, not so easy to shoot an OCU member!!

Turner

jetski wrote: »

I assume the raiders were carring guns and fired first? if not the guard who shot him should be suspened and charged.

The criminal does not have to fire first.

Simply having a gun and pointing it near members of the public or gardai will get you shot dead.

This is what we all pay our taxes for (including gardai). To be protected from these type of people.

brayblue24

jetski wrote: »

I assume the raiders were carring guns and fired first? if not the guard who shot him should be suspened and charged.

There's always one........

Not the case and rightly so as highlighted above by Chief

sunnyjim

jetski wrote: »

I assume the raiders were carring guns and fired first? if not the guard who shot him should be suspened and charged.

So we should wait for them to shoot an innocent bystander until they are shot.

What happens if YOU are an innocent bystander in the wrong place at the wrong time, and a scummer shouts to gardai that "this fella will be shot unless yous let us out of here". You'd be asking for Gardai to take the first shot then.

PapaQuebec

Mate of mine is with the NBCI, assigned to "delivery". Dont know if he was on this shout - but if he was I'll be buying him a cold one!!!

msg11

Pity, they should have all been shot dead, pheking gangsters think they own the place.

djtechnics1210

Organised Crime Unit and Operation Delivery are two different units completely, their not even in the same building as each other... someone in press office has their facts mixed up me thinks.

ak51535

djtechnics1210 wrote: »

Organised Crime Unit and Operation Delivery are two different units completely, their not even in the same building as each other... someone in press office has their facts mixed up me thinks.

what else is new? :L

Mr Jinx

djtechnics1210 wrote: »

Organised Crime Unit and Operation Delivery are two different units completely, their not even in the same building as each other... someone in press office has their facts mixed up me thinks.

Press office prob only heard of it after papers rang them !

timmywex

Well the men and women over in after hour think its all great!

Turner

I think its the general attitude from the law abiding tax paying pblic.

djtechnics1210

Last time something like this happened was in Lusk.
Criminals have had it to easy, getting away with going around tooled up for too long.

The only problem now is how many enquiries, tribunals working groups et etc will be set up to investigate this and give their pennies worth.
Id say the lads that puled the triggers will still be getting questioned about this and having to write on it when their retired.

djtechnics1210

Its unusual to see that OCU were the lead in this armed incident and the ones that did the intervention, its usually ERU that you see doing these type of incidents.

donvito99

Good to see any Garda operation being succesful, its not like they stumbled across the raid or anything. A result.

Random

I really think that the Gardai need a couple more high profile "busts" like this. It really puts them up there as a force to be reckoned with and you feel better knowing they do have the ability to tackle this sort of thing.

donvito99

Random wrote: »

I really think that the Gardai need a couple more high profile "busts" like this. It really puts them up there as a force to be reckoned with and you feel better knowing they do have the ability to tackle this sort of thing.

+1

The Traffic Cops show could give Road safety a higher profile.

jetski

Chief--- wrote: »

The criminal does not have to fire first.

Simply having a gun and pointing it near members of the public or gardai will get you shot dead.

This is what we all pay our taxes for (including gardai). To be protected from these type of people.

Oh, so you agree with the killing of John Carthy.

donvito99

jetski wrote: »

Oh, so you agree with the killing of John Carthy.

Jumping to conclusions?

DublinWriter

jetski wrote: »

Oh, so you agree with the killing of John Carthy.

Personally, yes. He came marching out of the house with a loaded shotgun after a prolonged siege. He also fired a few rounds at neighbouring houses prior to the siege.

If the family were that concerned after the event, then why didn't they restrict access to firearms to a family member that they knew had had mental health issues?

Turner

jetski wrote: »

Oh, so you agree with the killing of John Carthy.

Yes i agree that at the point he was shot he had to be shot to prevent gardai getting injured or killed.

I dont agree with the handling of the whole event and if it was handled better he would not have needed to be shot.

Anyway that is way off topic to this thread, if you want to start an abbylara thread you are more than welcome to do so.

Dotsie~tmp

It cant be any easy thing to do for a living. Good to hear that no were Gardai hurt. Too many of these armed robberys going on.

jetski

Chief--- wrote: »

I dont agree with the handling of the whole event and if it was handled better he would not have needed to be shot.

He had a gun and pointed it at gardai tho.

jetski

donvito99 wrote: »

Jumping to conclusions?

Nope, you are.

Sierra Oscar

Its good to see that these tiger robberies are being combated. Unfortunately, if you act like a bandit you have to be prepared for the consequences.

jetski wrote: »

He had a gun and pointed it at gardai tho.

I think that's Chief's point . . . do you expect the Gardai to do nothing if someone is pointing a loaded weapon at them?

jetski

Sierra Oscar wrote: »

I think that's Chief's point . . . do you expect the Gardai to do nothing if someone is pointing a loaded weapon at them?

Hes contradicting himself.

I dont expect them to do nothing, a shot in the leg will be more than enough to stop someone, you dont need to kill them.

allthedoyles

Look , anyone carrying a knife/ gun etc , do so with the intent to use ............So in my opinion the Gardai done a great job here.

Could this be a reminder to other like-minded criminals out there , to think twice before breaking the law

Bogger77

jetski wrote: »

Oh, so you agree with the killing of John Carthy.

Yes.
He pointed gun, he'd fired it previously.

Bogger77

jetski wrote: »

Hes contradicting himself.

I dont expect them to do nothing, a shot in the leg will be more than enough to stop someone, you dont need to kill them.

shot in the leg, and maim them?
You've been watching to many crap hollywood movies!

a 9mm round in the leg won't stop them pulling the trigger.

donvito99

jetski wrote: »

Nope, you are.

Ok, firstly the Abbeylara incident happened years ago. There have been reports and what happened on that day have been spelled out plain and clear. This incident happened TODAY, why are you already comparing it to Abbeylara.

jetski wrote:

I dont expect them to do nothing, a shot in the leg will be more than enough to stop someone, you dont need to kill them.

Not true, and a leg is a smaller target, increasing the risk of him firing back.

djtechnics1210

jetski wrote: »

Hes contradicting himself.

I dont expect them to do nothing, a shot in the leg will be more than enough to stop someone, you dont need to kill them.

If you had bothered doing a bit of research before posting... AGS does not have a policy of shooting people in legs/arms.... you aim for the biggest mass of the body, which is unfortunately the chest area.

The reason being that all AGS are not trained marksmen.
Armed Garda shoots at leg/arm there is a high chance they will miss due to target moving etc..... this in turn will end with some unfortunate civvy behind the target taking a bullet

djtechnics1210

Oh and Jetski before ya start preaching to me about firearms/shooting, leg shots etc etc.
I am ex PDF and a current armed member of AGS so i know what im talking about.

Shooting people in arms and legs accurately with a handgun is extremely hard especially when the target is moving and in a live fire environment.
You shoot to stop the threat = not to disarm it/wing it/wound it.... tickle it

2qk4u

I was delighted to hear they got shot, I hope some more of them go down as well. If you produce a gun in a public place with the intention of commiting a crime you should expect to get dead.. The only reason they didnt shoot a Garda or an innocent passer by is that they were so out of it on drugs they couldnt react quick enough...

djtechnics1210

Even if AGS had time to get snipers into position so as to shoot him in the leg/arm/.
Both these weapons which would have been used by AGS snipers and would have blown most of pals arm/leg off, which would have resulted in him more than likely dying anyway

orddecentctizen

Loss of a human life is always to be regretted and all efforts should be made to prevent this. This applies to all citizens. However, any citizen who produces a firearm in a public place in a threatening manner, and in a context where the threat of violence is explicit (as when you attack an armoured car or bank), cannot expect the same absolute protections the general population would because the people we ask to protect us may have to resort to lethal force to counter lethal force. This is sad and regrettable but there's only a small group of men who got up this morning and wanted to take that risk and now one of them is dead. I'm glad we have brave men and women in AGS who take this burden on their shoulders to protect us.

By the way, the photographs of large powerful sniper rifles could be interpreted as a rather gung ho and dismissive attitude to the loss of a human life today.

utick

jetski wrote: »

Hes contradicting himself.

I dont expect them to do nothing, a shot in the leg will be more than enough to stop someone, you dont need to kill them.

first of all the leg is not a big target, easy to miss much better to aim at the centre of large area of the body like the middle of the chest unfortunatly will likely result in a kill. secondly unless u are very close to the suspect to shoot in the knee, there is a high possibility of death from being shot in the legs as there are alot of major arteiries and veins in the legs

ronivek

orddecentctizen wrote: »

By the way, the photographs of large powerful sniper rifles could be interpreted as a rather gung ho and dismissive attitude to the loss of a human life today.

Considering the first half of your post was so well thought out I'm surprised you didn't bother to read the actual post associated with the pictures.

Racedriver

I am totally behind the Gardai in this case. They have a duty to protect the public from harm and they have done that today, lets hope it sends a message to the filth that plan and execute these crimes that if they are willing to lift a firearm then they are willing to die by one.

A Primal Nut

jetski wrote: »

Hes contradicting himself.

I dont expect them to do nothing, a shot in the leg will be more than enough to stop someone, you dont need to kill them.

Not really, he could still shoot and indeed is more likely to shoot if he had been shot once.

I don't see why you think gardai should risk their lives for an armed robber or crazy guy who locked his own mother in the house for a few days. This is what they do for a living and they are on these scenes becaue its their job, not because they like to shoot people.

I believe Chef was pointing out that the bit before he came out of the house may have been handled better. No sane person could suggest the gardai had any choice once he came out of the house.

BrandonFlowers

I'd like to congratule the guards involved in this operation today, i think they did all that was nessesary and proportionate in the situation and as a fairly new member myself i would like to think if it came to it i wold have the courage to do the same without having to worry about consequences. Well done lads.

2qk4u

2qk4u wrote: »

The only reason they didnt shoot a Garda or an innocent passer by is that they were so out of it on drugs they couldnt react quick enough...

Were you there today? Did you meet the raiders before or after the robbery attempt? Did you carry out blood tests on them to find out they were under the influence of drugs?

If not then you cannot make such a comment.

Well done to those involved in stopping this gang, hopfully it will put of other gangs with similar ideas.

santosubito

jetski wrote: »

Hes contradicting himself.

I dont expect them to do nothing, a shot in the leg will be more than enough to stop someone, you dont need to kill them.

That, alas, is bollox. I remember attending the Carthy inquest in Longford. I remember John Harbisond describing his wounds - all bar the fatal one were to his legs. He was shot in the legs to stop him, but it simply didn't work. Three shots and he's still walking...

Spartan09

Congragulations to the brave Gardai today who in the face of armed resistance from criminals returned fire and defended the state on behalf of its citixens. In my opinion any citizen who goes out in public with a firearm with the aim of comitting a crime and who is challenged by the Gardai to lay down their arms and does not and who is shot dead / injured by AGS can have no justifable reason for compaint. Thanks to all involved for defending the security of the state with complete justification

Poccington

jetski wrote: »

Oh, so you agree with the killing of John Carthy.

During the 24 hours he spent in his house during the stand off, Mr. Carthy fired numerous rounds from his weapon. Then when he finally came out, he was still armed and moving towards members of AGS... They would've been mad not to shoot him.

orddecentctizen

Thanks Ronivek, I had read the post, the pictures could have been interpreted differently but I think we're of a similar mind. Good clarification.

Poccington

jetski wrote: »

Hes contradicting himself.

I dont expect them to do nothing, a shot in the leg will be more than enough to stop someone, you dont need to kill them.

You don't pull the trigger with any part of your foot or leg. If you're gonna open fire, you want to put the target out of action and a shot to the leg most likely won't do that.

Then of course there's the fact that aiming at someone's leg whilst they're advancing on you with a loaded weapon is just idiocy. You aim for centre mass, so you know if you hit them they're out of action, simple as.

IRISH RAIL

I just wanted to thank the gardai today dopey Andy was walking out of the centra with his chicken sandwich when all hell broke loose watching a man getting shot then finding out he is dead is pretty shocking thanks to the guys and girl from qc who looked after me.
also those guys be them eru or sdu ( they were just in caps) were on the ball and I also got a little awakening when I realised it aint just mondeos the cops drive.
well done to all

Fishtits

Guys, Abbeylara (sp?) was a shambles, since acknowledged.

(had pints in Bordeaux with the "Super IC" BTW, didn't discuss the event.)

More recent AGS firearms incidents have been better handled, Targeted shots have been backed up by inteligence.

AGS have obviously got their ROE and good luck to them..

Lads, if people want to talk about the Abbeylara incident start a new thread. This is about todays shooting. John Carthy wasn't shot today.

Sorry mods