Westside for confused bastards

Hanley

Mellor wrote: »

The reason i liked the version in Kevs OP was that is has singles once a week for both upper and lower. I glanced the at the WW4SB pdf and it says to work up to a 3-5 rep PR
I even had to go back to it and check I didn't misread.
I don't really care, and i'm doing it as per the OP. I'm mostly here for the bump

What is it that's confusing you? The fact Kev has singles and Joe doesn't? Or the reasoning behind it?

kevpants

A 3-5 rep PR is not ME. There's plenty of 3-5 rep programs you can follow but for me if you're going to do Westside you should be using a weight that's either a small PR or close to your max on your ME day.

The simplest way to think about it is to make sure you so 3 or 4 lifts on ME day that you really strain to get. That's different to repping a weight 5 times where the first rep was a piece of cake and you only really strain on the last one.

Not saying repping is wrong but it's not what ME is supposed to be about.

Hanley

kevpants wrote: »

A 3-5 rep PR is not ME. There's plenty of 3-5 rep programs you can follow but for me if you're going to do Westside you should be using a weight that's either a small PR or close to your max on your ME day.

The simplest way to think about it is to make sure you so 3 or 4 lifts on ME day that you really strain to get. That's different to repping a weight 5 times where the first rep was a piece of cake and you only really strain on the last one.

Not saying repping is wrong but it's not what ME is supposed to be about.

Weren't 3rms included as an option in original westside programming tho?

kevpants

Hanley wrote: »

Weren't 3rms included as an option in original westside programming tho?

You could argue that you could get 3 reps with 90%ish and it would still be ME I suppose. As a beginner though I found adding slivers of weight to a heavy single and following ot up with a few slightly less heavy singles or doubles was plenty.

There's a danger that a beginner just won't have it heavy enough if they're thinking about getting 3 or more reps.

Mellor

Hanley wrote: »

What is it that's confusing you? The fact Kev has singles and Joe doesn't? Or the reasoning behind it?

More so the fact that the "theory" included in ww4sb is basically that your two heavy days a MAX effort. Lift as heavy as you can.
Then in the sample program, they toss in the usual 5 rep sets

I'm going to do it with singles, prob starting in a week or two. Hopefully break some benchmarks.

d'Oracle

Mellor wrote: »

WW4SB,

Sorry Dude, can't help it.


WestWood for Skinny Bastards?

Mellor

lol, I did it twice too

In one of those coincidences, i finally got around to reading "The Vault", Dave Tate's e-book. Covers everything, and at first glance looks pretty good.
There is a section that describes different training methods, including Maximum Effort days. What he says and the suggested programming is pretty much the exact same as the OP. Singles, 3 weeks, squats train deadlifts etc. I think he stole it

Mellor

lol, I did it twice too

In one of those coincidences, i finally got around to reading "The Vault", Dave Tate's e-book. Covers everything, and at first glance looks pretty good.
There is a section that describes different training methods, including Maximum Effort days. What he says and the suggested programming is pretty much the exact same as the OP. Singles, 3 weeks, squats train deadlifts etc. I think he stole it

Blindside87

This looks similar to Layne Nortons Power/Hypertrophy split which I have been doing for the last while.

Works really well.

1 Day Max Upper
1 day max lower
1 Day Hypertrophy upper
1 day hypertropy lower.

The only problem I have is on the lower days. I can't do heavy squat and Deadlift in one day so I do one on each day followed by 3 sets of hypertrophy on the same muscle.

kevpants

Blindside87 wrote: »

The only problem I have is on the lower days. I can't do heavy squat and Deadlift in one day so I do one on each day followed by 3 sets of hypertrophy on the same muscle.

Don't be afraid to try what I mentioned, 3 weeks heavy squat then 3 weeks heavy deadlift. After the 3 weeks of doing the other lower lift I found the one I wasn't training had actually improved when I went back to it. Power loves rest.

RidleyRider

Just thought I'd bump this cause it makes for some great reading. Fair play kevpants.

Hanley

Yeah but Kev wrote it when he had a low 200kg squat so it doesn't really count.

ThunbergsAreGo

Apologies for the bump but good thread,

What ab work did people find worked for them?

Hanley

This is well overdue another bump.

Brian?

Hanley wrote: »

This is well overdue another bump.

Yes it is.

Tell Kev pants he's missed.

Hanley

Brian? wrote: »

Yes it is.

Tell Kev pants he's missed.

He's back in Dublin in August. We'll have a boards.ie party in RevFit for him.

Brian?

I am bumping this thread again. It'd deadly.

COH

Just sticky it already

Brian?

COH wrote: »

Just sticky it already

But it's in the "interesting threads" sticky.I can't remember why, but each forum is only supposed to have a couple of stickies.

idnkph

Starting this tomorrow. ME upper looks like this.
Bench press (same as in kevs first post) warm up and 5 over 90%.
Close grip incline BP. 3 x 8
Lying tricep extensions.
Cable pulldown
Reverse fly
Upright row.
All assistance is 3x8 .

DE upper
BP 8 x 3 55%
DB BP 3x8 .
Seated row.
DB shoulder press.
Preacher curls.

ME lower
Squat warm up and 5 x 1 90% & over
Bent knee good mornings. 3x8
Reverse hyper. 3x8
Abs work.

DE lower.
Squats 10x 3 @ 60%
Stiff legged deads 5x5
Ab work.

Can anyone suggest any changes I need?

Brian?

idnkph wrote: »

Starting this tomorrow. ME upper looks like this.
Bench press (same as in kevs first post) warm up and 5 over 90%.
Close grip incline BP. 3 x 8
Lying tricep extensions.
Cable pulldown
Reverse fly
Upright row.
All assistance is 3x8 .

DE upper
BP 8 x 3 55%
DB BP 3x8 .
Seated row.
DB shoulder press.
Preacher curls.

ME lower
Squat warm up and 5 x 1 90% & over
Bent knee good mornings. 3x8
Reverse hyper. 3x8
Abs work.

DE lower.
Squats 10x 3 @ 60%
Stiff legged deads 5x5
Ab work.

Can anyone suggest any changes I need?

On your ME upper day your triceps will be pretty fried by the benching, in my experience. I'd drop the tricep isolation. Upright rows are tough on the shoulders, swap them out for DB overhead press.

Again with the ME lower day, lower back will be tired from squats so I'm not sure how great an idea good mornings ares.

The max effort days are all about the big lift. Don't try to throw the kitchen sink at it.

Brian?

I haven't really trained the big lifts properly in about 5 years, until last night.

My plan is to do 6-8 weeks on press and deadlift. My hip and shoulder mobility needs work so I'll be avoiding squats and bench for a while.

Last night I did a ME military press day:

Military press, 1x10 warmup set, then a 1x3 warmup set, then singles up to failure as I needed to test my 1rm. It was a pretty pathetic 1rm and shall remain secret lol.

Pull-ups 3x8
Seated rows 3x8
Attempted some incline DB benches but the front delts wanted none of it.
Barbell curls and tricep push downs supersetted 3x12. Because I'm vain and like having nice arms, this is purely optional IMO.

Next session is DE deadlifts but has to wait until tomorrow. Will post it up once it's done.

idnkph

Brian? wrote:

On your ME upper day your triceps will be pretty fried by the benching, in my experience. I'd drop the tricep isolation. Upright rows are tough on the shoulders, swap them out for DB overhead press.

Brian? wrote:

Again with the ME lower day, lower back will be tired from squats so I'm not sure how great an idea good mornings ares.

Brian? wrote:

The max effort days are all about the big lift. Don't try to throw the kitchen sink at it.

Took your advice and glad I did. Tri's are burning hard. Shoulders are feeling it too but they are my weak link... right shoulder is clicking alot. Had rotator cuff problem before and thought it was solved but it's holding me back. Was happy enough with my 1RM . Personal record already set and with a dodgy shoulder haha. Thanks for the tips.
Just on the assistance stuff... should I be going as heavy as I can with them on ME day? Or is it just ME for the main lifts?

Brian?

idnkph wrote: »

Took your advice and glad I did. Tri's are burning hard. Shoulders are feeling it too but they are my weak link... right shoulder is clicking alot. Had rotator cuff problem before and thought it was solved but it's holding me back. Was happy enough with my 1RM . Personal record already set and with a dodgy shoulder haha. Thanks for the tips.
Just on the assistance stuff... should I be going as heavy as I can with them on ME day? Or is it just ME for the main lifts?

Good stuff. Go as heavy as you can, keeping the reps 8 or higher.

Brian?

ME deadlift day today (needed to test my deadlift 1rm).

Warmed up with shoulder and hip mobility work.

Deadlift:
Empty bar x10 warm up
Then a light triple, 60kg x3.
Then worked up to failure in singles. Adding 10kg each set until the struggle set in and then went in increments of 5kg.

All 3x8:
Bulgarian split squats
Hamstring curls
Single leg extensions
Planks.

Brian?

idnkph wrote: »

Took your advice and glad I did. Tri's are burning hard. Shoulders are feeling it too but they are my weak link... right shoulder is clicking alot. Had rotator cuff problem before and thought it was solved but it's holding me back. Was happy enough with my 1RM . Personal record already set and with a dodgy shoulder haha. Thanks for the tips.
Just on the assistance stuff... should I be going as heavy as I can with them on ME day? Or is it just ME for the main lifts?

Just re read this post. Benching and shoulder problems are not a good mix.

Get t Physio at the slightest sign of trouble. But make sure to do plenty of should mobility stuff in your warm up and keep a ratio of 2:1 pull:push on your assistance work.

Alf Veedersane

Brian? wrote: »

But make sure to do plenty of should mobility stuff in your warm up and keep a ratio of 2:1 pull:push on your assistance work.

This. Very little pull work in the workout listed, including for the changes suggested.

Brian?

Alf Veedersane wrote: »

This. Very little pull work in the workout listed, including for the changes suggested.

Mmm hmm. You'll notice on my ME press day, listed earlier, there was very little pushing assistance work.

I'm still working the finer points out but if I was do bench as my big upper body lift, my assistance work would probably be.

1 of Pull 1: barbell rows, cable rows, db rows
1 of Pull 2: chins, pull ups, lat pull downs
Shrugs
A tricep exercise and a bicep exercise.

My warmup would be:

Shoulder mobility work: face pulls+band shoulder dislocates+ foam rolling t spine+ pec stretch