Westside for confused bastards

kevpants

Decided this would be a worthwhile exercise as I think every time someone expresses an interest in Westside it is 99% of the time followed by

But I tried reading up on it and I don't know what it's about

That is because this type of training has been modified and misinterpreted more times than the bible, and caused nearly as many arguments.

You might read articles by Louie Simmons, Westsides creator, or other gurus going on about converting negative kinetic energy into downforce ensuring you squat 1000lbs so long as you are traveling at 88mph. To me the inner workings of what this is all about are a bit far fetched and in some cases I think the reasons for the results were invented AFTER the good results were attained. But who am I to criticize.

Here is a detailed layout of everything I learned when I embarked on a Westside routine. I spent weeks figuring it out but I've tried to simplify it down now so people can get what it's about easily enough.

ME, DE, RE

This is the first thing that throws you. WTF do they mean?

ME = Max effort. You do one ME day a week for both your upper and lower body. The most important thing about ME day is that you get at least 3 or 4 lifts in at about 90% or above of your 1 rep max. This is why it is called Max Effort.
MYTH ALERT: These 1 rep max attempts are not a test, of your strength. They are a strength building exercise. So many people believe it is just to test your strength, why the hell would you do that every week?
The idea is to warm up to these 90% plus attempts, so you are not tired when you get to them, just ready and nice and loose. It should look something like this:

50 x 5
60 x 4
70 x 3
80 x 2
90 x 1
100 x 1
110 x 1 New PR (personal record)
105 x 1
97.5 x 1

As you can see you will have lifted heavy singles as your last 4 lifts, this is the business end of the set. What most of you will have trouble adapting to is only lifting 70 for 3 reps or 80 for 2. It will feel so light you will think "Kevpants is a douche, I'm getting nothing form lifting this for 2 reps". I am a total douche, but the point is everything up to those last few reps is a warm up. They don't matter. You don't have to break a PR for reps with 70% of your max, who cares? Do something else if that's what blows your skirt up.

Your ME exercises will consist of:
Upper body - Bench, Incline Bench, Close grip Bench, Floor Press (or similar).
Lower body - Squat & Deadlift

MYTH ALERT: Partial presses like floor press are not just for equipped powerlifters. So many people say you just need to concentrate on strength off the chest, wrong, there is about 10 inches of lift left after that and the bench fairies aren't going to help you. This is not "lockout training" that powerlifters talk about, that's the top 3 inches. There seems to be a middle 8 inches there that is no mans land and no one ever talks about it, do floor presses and train the middle bit.

This might raise a few eyebrows, what about the boards/chains/bands/box squat? I just want to get one thing clear, screw the box squat. I'm writing this from the perspective of people who have just learned to squat. I don't think the box squat makes sense for people to move onto when they really just need to practice their regular squat more. The best thing for squatting is squats. All of the other bits of S&M gear are "nice to haves" and TBH over complicate things, you've enough on your plate with how I'll lay it out and you won't get bored.

It's important that you are PR focused here but that you don't miss lifts. If you miss a lift it is your own fault, you didn't have to take that particular weight on. Whether you admit it or not, you know whether you're going to get it before you go for it. Try and get a small improvement wherever possible but avoid missing like the plague!

DE = Dynamic Effort. One more thing to clarify. Screw dynamic effort. This is about building up bar speed. Bar speed is not your problem. Anyone reading this who is at the level where their bar speed is what's holding them back needs to go ask someone who knows more than me.

RE - Repeat Effort. Or repetitive effort...or something. Anyway it is the good old multiple reps of manageable weight to add mass idea. And after being squished by ME day you'll skip down to the gym to do this one. Like ME day you do one RE day a week for both your upper and lower body. The idea is to set PR's of your own choice on either lighter bench, bench variations, squats or other assistance exercises that I'll get to next. RE day is not the end of the world, it's just there to help you along and provide some recovery/variety for your muscles and nervous system after the all out ME day. You might choose to do 3 sets of 10 with about 60% of your max bench and try and add weight over the weeks if you can. Mix it up every few weeks and remember it is completely supplementary to ME day. No one cares about your RE records.

Assistance Exercises:
Assistance exercises are the ones that take place after your main ME or RE sets. They are there to tackle weakpoints, not to try an improve on your already impressive DB bench record or whatever. What do you suck at? What held you back in the ME set you just finished? Whatever it was, go and do some direct work on it. If it's your hamstrings in the deadlift, go do good mornings. If it's your stability on the bench, go do upper back work. The main thing is to do the stuff that you hate, cos it's holding you back. A quick list of possible exercises. If you need clarification on any of them just ask.
Upper: DB Bench, any kind of row, chins, bicep or tricep work, scap retraction work, dips.
Lower: Ab work, Pause squats, good mornings, ab work, RDL/SLDL's, GHR's, ab work, hypers/rev hypers, ab work, leg press, ab work.

Yes it is ALL about the ab work. No other muscle will help with your squat and deadlift more than your abs if you work hard enough at them.

Structure & Cycles

With Westside you will be doing a lot of work above 90% as I mentioned. What this means is you will be in danger of burning out, plateauing and subsequently getting weaker. To avert this we change the ME exercise of choice around every 3 weeks. Advanced people can change every 1 or 2 but I don't get why. It won't be an issue if you are starting off anyway. 3 weeks it is.

So for upper day you might pick a cycle of 3 exercises like bench for 3 weeks, Incline bench for 3 weeks and floor press for 3 weeks and repeat. I think picking 3 is sufficient, I'd get a bit pissed off if I had to wait 2 months before my next bench cycle because I chose too many upper body exercises. For lower body you should just alternate between ME squats and ME deadlifts, and no arguments. Anyone who has recommended a beginner do max effort Good Mornings or something is a class A moron. Stick with these two, you'll feel rested and fired up after your 3 week break from each and the PR's will flow.

Common questions:

Can I use DB Bench for ME day?: No. That's silly.
How often do I deload?: How often do you feel drained? Same answer.
Do I need a belt?: It's personal choice. Personally I'd say wait an introduce it later and get an extra 10kg on your squat as a result.
Do I have to do 4 days a week?: No you can do 4 days out of every 10 if you like. There are 4 days to a "weekly cycle" but you can spread it out if you want. It may even help with recovery.
How many assitance exercises do I do?: I'd say no more than 3 or 4 per workout. Don't be so tired from the assistance work you can't do the work work. They are designed to help, don't let them hinder you.

Hopefully this clear up most questions on how it works. If anything is unclear let me know.

FunkZ

Whoa thanks very much Kev!

kevpants

No worries. As I think of things that confused me I'll add them to the FAQ's. I'm sure I forgot something.

itsallaboutheL

Who's going for new Fitness mod EH??:p

Seriously good work Kev

kevpants

itsallaboutheL wrote: »

Who's going for new Fitness mod EH??:p

Yeah right.

itsallaboutheL banned for not squatting.

itsallaboutheL

i fcukin hate ye i'm off to the Ladies Lounge or somewhere they'll respect me for havin huge boobs pecs!!

the drifter

itsallaboutheL wrote: »

i fcukin hate ye i'm off to the Ladies Lounge or somewhere they'll respect me for havin huge boobs pecs!!

dont forget to bring your cable's with you....

kev did you come up with that youself or is it robbed?

if it aint robbed excellent post...

bomberboy

kind of still struggling with this sorry but id love to try something like this so have a few questions if thats alright.

its four days of what, one lower ME one upper ME, RE and what else? is that what the assistance exercises are?

how many exercises do you do per day and what exercises? is it just one on your max effort day?

is it good for making gains as it seems like you dont end up doing a huge amount of exercises per session?

if these are all stupid questions that can be easily answered if i buy the programme then just let me know!

Hanley

Really good post.... I remember someone asking Jim Wendler about it before and he said basically it boils down to this;

"You've one day where you lift really heavy sh!t slowly, and another day where you lift light sh!t fast"

I'll add in a few tips of my own;

-always try to move the bar as fast as possible with good form after you've done a warm up set or two on the main lifts. Apply this on ME day and RE day and you'll effectively train DE without even realising it.

-RE/assistance work is what you do to build the main lift

-Box squats are sh!t for a raw lifter as an ME exercise (by and large). You won't use the same form as when you're free squatting, and you'll just loose your groove.

-Train your abs at least 2x a week, hard and heavy. Try to set weight and rep PR's. Kev said it already, but it bears repeating.

dioltas

Thanks for that. Just wondering there, in an unequipped pl meet, are belts allowed for the squat?

tribulus

bomberboy wrote: »

kind of still struggling with this sorry but id love to try something like this so have a few questions if thats alright.

its four days of what, one lower ME one upper ME, RE and what else? is that what the assistance exercises are?

how many exercises do you do per day and what exercises? is it just one on your max effort day?

is it good for making gains as it seems like you dont end up doing a huge amount of exercises per session?

if these are all stupid questions that can be easily answered if i buy the programme then just let me know!

One lower ME, one lower RE, one upper ME, one lower RE.

Kevpants answered the how many exercises in his post.

For the majority of people, focusing on getting stronger will lead to them getting bigger too. Bare in mind it's a strength program if you want to train specifically for mass you might consider something else.

tribulus

dioltas wrote: »

Thanks for that. Just wondering there, in an unequipped pl meet, are belts allowed for the squat?

Depends on the federation, though I'm not aware of any federation that forbids belts in unequipped lifting.

I think even 100% Raw allow belts.

dioltas

Ok thanks. Do ye usually use belts when squatting?

Hanley

I'll take a stab, Kev can update with stuff I've forgotten!!

bomberboy wrote: »

kind of still struggling with this sorry but id love to try something like this so have a few questions if thats alright.

its four days of what, one lower ME one upper ME, RE and what else? is that what the assistance exercises are?

The normal split is something like;

Monday: ME Lower
Tuesday: RE Upper
Thursday: RE Lower
Friday: ME Upper

how many exercises do you do per day and what exercises? is it just one on your max effort day?

ME or RE exercise plus 3-5 supplemental/assistance exercises (exercises that will improve the main lift in some way)

is it good for making gains as it seems like you dont end up doing a huge amount of exercises per session?

Quality -v- quantity tbh. 4 exercises done hard is much better than 6 done half assed.

Hanley

tribulus wrote: »

Depends on the federation, though I'm not aware of any federation that forbids belts in unequipped lifting.

I think even 100% Raw allow belts.

In Ireland at least the IDFPA are still the only ones to offer an unequipped section, and you're allowed wear a belt and wrist wraps there.

ladowack

Great Post kev, surely this can be sticky'd

bigstar

Cracking Post.
im might give this a go soon enough.
thanks.

cardio,shoot me

very informative post. cheers :P

kevpants

Hanley wrote: »

The normal split is something like;

Monday: ME Lower
Tuesday: RE Upper
Thursday: RE Lower
Friday: ME Upper

Cherers, I knew I forgot something. Hanleys layout or

Mon: ME Lower
Tue: ME Upper
Thu: RE Lower
Fri: RE Upper

are the most common. Just don't be knackerd coming into your ME days.

bomberboy wrote: »

kind of still struggling with this sorry but id love to try something like this so have a few questions if thats alright.

its four days of what, one lower ME one upper ME, RE and what else? is that what the assistance exercises are?

how many exercises do you do per day and what exercises? is it just one on your max effort day?

is it good for making gains as it seems like you dont end up doing a huge amount of exercises per session?

if these are all stupid questions that can be easily answered if i buy the programme then just let me know!

Hanley clarified the exercises. You should be done in 45mins to an hour. It's about results not time in the gym.

If you are in a rush just doing your ME exercise and getting out of there is ok every now and then.

kevpants

the drifter wrote: »

kev did you come up with that youself or is it robbed?

Do the masses of spelling mistakes not prove it's mine? :pac:

Yeah it's just my conclusion from reading about a million websites on it.

brianthebard

Quality work Kev, thanks.

podge57

nice thread - box squats are def. not the way to go for most people

rack pulls or block pulls would be a good addition for a ME exercise too - i think they are a lot different than regular deads and can help you hit your weakpoints


cant believe you said "douche" though...

Hanley

podge57 wrote: »

nice thread - box squats are def. not the way to go for most people

rack pulls or block pulls would be a good addition for a ME exercise too - i think they are a lot different than regular deads and can help you hit your weakpoints


cant believe you said "douche" though...

low rack pulls are AWESOME. Pulling from like 3-5 inches below your knee cap (or with the weight elevated 2-3 inches off the floor) is one of the best things you can do for your DL imo.

justdoit

Thanks for taking the time Kev. Awesome post. Have steered clear of this programme because I train on my own and didn't have someone to clarify confusing bits with, but will consider later in the year...

BossArky

kevpants wrote: »

It should look something like this:

50 x 5
60 x 4
70 x 3
80 x 2
90 x 1
100 x 1
110 x 1 New PR (personal record)
105 x 1
97.5 x 1

So, there is no week or two building up to the PR attempts? You just hit it as hard as possible on the first week and just continue trying to add manageable increments each week?

i.e. If my squat max is xxx do I aim to break xxx kg straight off on the first week?

Thanks for the very informative post, Kev. I will be giving this a bash from June onwards.

kevpants

BossArky wrote: »

So, there is no week or two building up to the PR attempts? You just hit it as hard as possible on the first week and just continue trying to add manageable increments each week?

i.e. If my squat max is xxx do I aim to break xxx kg straight off on the first week?

That's it, you don't build up to anything. The stress of being under so many heavy singles makes you better at lifting them, it's that simple.

For your first week you can maybe set a new "Westside PR" and go for something that you know you'll get but you know you couldn't do two reps of. The next week add a tiny increment to it. You don't necessarily have to go for the biggest weight possible every week. Like if you squatted 125kg as your heaviest lift of the day and it went up fairly quick but was a 2.5kg PR, don't go higher. Wait until next week when you might get 127.5kg just as easy.

The thing about changing exercise every 3 weeks is that you come into it fresh, set some PR's and move on to the next exercise fresh for that. You don't hang around doing the same thing week after week. Get your PR's an move on.

If you don't hit a PR every week of the 3 weeks it's not a disaster, so long as you are stronger at the end of week 3 than you were coming into it.

BossArky

Sounds good, cheers.

springs

kevpants wrote: »

How often do I deload?: How often do you feel drained? Same answer.

Hopefully this clear up most questions on how it works. If anything is unclear let me know.

I hope this isn't a stupid question but how does one deload? I have been doing WS4SB now for 7 weeks (2 x 3 week cycles) and on this week I am really starting to tire. I am hitting PR's every session but I'd rather take next week off and let my body catch up.

So I just wanted to know if you follow the same program and just use 50% instead. Same reps, same sets? Should you be tired after a deload workout?

Thanks

Hanley

springs wrote: »

I hope this isn't a stupid question but how does one deload? I have been doing WS4SB now for 7 weeks (2 x 3 week cycles) and on this week I am really starting to tire. I am hitting PR's every session but I'd rather take next week off and let my body catch up.

So I just wanted to know if you follow the same program and just use 50% instead. Same reps, same sets? Should you be tired after a deload workout?

Thanks

I'm a big fan of just going in to play about. Grab some weights, do some exercises but nothing too mad. I'd probably stay away from the main lifts and just do some assistance work with 60-70% of your normal weights.

Kev might have something else to add!

g'em

kev can you put a copy of this in the Fitness Basics sticky? And put a "for more discussion see here" and link to this thread at the end of it?

I'd put your post straight into the thread only I think the last time I moved an OP post a black hole appeared in the intarweb...

kevpants

Hanley wrote: »

I'm a big fan of just going in to play about. Grab some weights, do some exercises but nothing too mad. I'd probably stay away from the main lifts and just do some assistance work with 60-70% of your normal weights.

Kev might have something else to add!

That's about it.

I sometimes just do nothing, take the week off.

One thing I'd caution against is deciding to go in and do some new things, even if they are light. I mean don't go in and decide you're gonna do some cleans or some weird dumbell thing you saw on youtube if you've never done it before. It's gonna make your body respond by trying to adjust to it and you can end up not getting the rest you need.

Some experts talk about deloading like it's a science. It isn't. Just recovery time is all.

DM-BM

Kevpants, what sort of programs and how long were you training, before you started Westside last may?

Vegeta

kevpants wrote: »

Structure & Cycles

With Westside you will be doing a lot of work above 90% as I mentioned. What this means is you will be in danger of burning out, plateauing and subsequently getting weaker. To avert this we change the ME exercise of choice around every 3 weeks. Advanced people can change every 1 or 2 but I don't get why. It won't be an issue if you are starting off anyway. 3 weeks it is.

So for upper day you might pick a cycle of 3 exercises like bench for 3 weeks, Incline bench for 3 weeks and floor press for 3 weeks and repeat. I think picking 3 is sufficient, I'd get a bit pissed off if I had to wait 2 months before my next bench cycle because I chose too many upper body exercises. For lower body you should just alternate between ME squats and ME deadlifts, and no arguments. Anyone who has recommended a beginner do max effort Good Mornings or something is a class A moron. Stick with these two, you'll feel rested and fired up after your 3 week break from each and the PR's will flow.

Hopefully this clear up most questions on how it works. If anything is unclear let me know.

Hey Kev, awesome post and thanks for taking the time to write it.

Can I ask a question about the bit in bold and about the structure/cycles, what do you mean by alternate between ME squats and ME deadlifts?

Do you mean deadlift for 3 weeks then squat for 3 weeks?

OR

Do you mean ME squat this week and then ME Deadlift next week or what?

kevpants

DM-BM wrote: »

Kevpants, what sort of programs and how long were you training, before you started Westside last may?

I wasn't really training for anything in particular. When I was in a gym I was like most people, criminally neglecting my squat and deadlift. Just trying to break my own little records at stuff like handstand pushups, one arm pushups. Crap like that. Then I decided one day to be a powerlifter and just dived in head first. I've always trained for something, whether it was a sport or pushups in my bedroom or chinups on my mams clothesline. I suppose it took about 10 or 12 years before I focused on something, powerlifting. But I was NO POWERLIFTER when I started it. I couldn't squat or pull to save my life!

Vegeta wrote: »

Hey Kev, awesome post and thanks for taking the time to write it.

Can I ask a question about the bit in bold and about the structure/cycles, what do you mean by alternate between ME squats and ME deadlifts?

Do you mean deadlift for 3 weeks then squat for 3 weeks?

OR

Do you mean ME squat this week and then ME Deadlift next week or what?

I mean 3 weeks of squats then 3 weeks of deadlifts.

I always say the best thing I ever did for my squat was replace it with deadlifts and vice versa. I would maybe eek out 2.5kg PR's each week over the 3 weeks I was squatting, I'd take 3 weeks off and deadlift, then come back and set a 7.5 kg squat PR. The breaks are crucial.

Vegeta

kevpants wrote: »

I mean 3 weeks of squats then 3 weeks of deadlifts.

I always say the best thing I ever did for my squat was replace it with deadlifts and vice versa. I would maybe eek out 2.5kg PR's each week over the 3 weeks I was squatting, I'd take 3 weeks off and deadlift, then come back and set a 7.5 kg squat PR. The breaks are crucial.

Christ, I thought it would have been every second week.

I had my weights in my room at home for a long time and I could not deadlift at all because it was the wooden floor of a 2 storey house. I was already driving nails through the plaster of the sitting room.

I was squatting however and raised my PR by 20 KG (80 up to 100) over a summer doing a body building program

When the weights were moved to the concrete floored shed I pulled a 30kg PR on the dead lift (120 up to 150)

Always put this down to beginner gains from continuing to squat.

In the middle of a program at the minute but think I will give this a shot in about 3-4 weeks.

Doing Stephan Korte's program at the moment and while I like it, max efforts (or close to them) are 8 weeks apart. Psychologically this doesn't leave one in a great state, I keep asking myself "Am I getting stronger, is it working" and the answer is "I'll see in 8 weeks when I try a PR"

I think its aimed at higher level folks than my n00b self. I will finish out the program though and see how it goes for me.

I like the sound of the westside approach as it seems to give feedback week to week with the ME days. I like the idea of that

FunkZ

I lift on a wooden floor in the attic and I set my DL PR there XD

Just had ta say!
I'm gonna cause an accident this summer haha.

kevpants

Vegeta wrote: »

Doing Stephan Korte's program at the moment and while I like it, max efforts (or close to them) are 8 weeks apart. Psychologically this doesn't leave one in a great state, I keep asking myself "Am I getting stronger, is it working" and the answer is "I'll see in 8 weeks when I try a PR"

That's right I meant to PM you and see how you were getting on!

Don't worry about the lack of PR attempts. You ARE getting stronger. Westside is very satisfying with all the PR's but with something like Korte or 5/3/1 you attempt a PR every few months and it should be a HUGE one!

agentgreen

Brill post, thanks Kev.

What type of reps and sets would you do for the assistance lifts on ME days?

Thanks again.

BossArky

What would you think of 20 rep squatting on the lower RE day?

Hanley

BossArky wrote: »

What would you think of 20 rep squatting on the lower RE day?

I think Kev's done it before.... I'd be careful tho, you could prolly burn out pretty quick if you're pushing them hard.

kevpants

agentgreen wrote: »

Brill post, thanks Kev.

What type of reps and sets would you do for the assistance lifts on ME days?

Thanks again.

Try and keep the reps somewhat high. Like don't go lifting heavy singles or doubles. It doesn't really matter so long as you are hitting the muscles that are letting you down. I've done sets of 20 reps and sets of 8 reps on the same exercise, see what you think works for you.

BossArky wrote: »

What would you think of 20 rep squatting on the lower RE day?

I found it grand for a few weeks then it just got too much. Recovery is important and if you find yourself feeling drained on your ME day stop them. I think I did them for about 4 weeks on my RE day. They are great for adding a bit of meat to the legs which is the clay to mould your strength from.

BossArky

kevpants wrote: »

I found it grand for a few weeks then it just got too much. Recovery is important and if you find yourself feeling drained on your ME day stop them. I think I did them for about 4 weeks on my RE day. They are great for adding a bit of meat to the legs which is the clay to mould your strength from.

Ok, I'll see how it goes and adjust accordingly.

qt9ukbg60ivjrn

Thats one of the best post I've read in a while and the thread isn't to shabby either. Always wondered about ws4sb is.

I noticed for the upper body ME day you are giving lots of chest dominated excercises.

Is that just because you're using it as a random example or does it have to be specifically those few excercises?

Instead of a bench press could I do a push press or is this excercise not the type of one to go with?

Thanks for the explanation Kevpants.

kevpants

Keanu Short Variable wrote: »

Thats one of the best post I've read in a while and the thread isn't to shabby either. Always wondered about ws4sb is.

I noticed for the upper body ME day you are giving lots of chest dominated excercises.

Is that just because you're using it as a random example or does it have to be specifically those few excercises?

Instead of a bench press could I do a push press or is this excercise not the type of one to go with?

Thanks for the explanation Kevpants.

Westside is a powerlifting program. Therefore it was designed with the premise in mind to increase the squat/bench/deadlift. WS4SB is one of many improvised programs that have been done off the basis of Westside. Joe Defranco customized it for use with NFL hopefuls training for the NFL combine, then decided he could sell it.

Non-powerlifters use Westside for the overall size and strength gains it offers and while it's customizable I think substituting bench with overhead press is taking it too far. For one I wouldn't recommend a beginner or even intermediate lifter repeatedly push their 1rm on the overhead press. I'd say you could measure the time it would take to get injured in minutes rather than weeks. Secondly it's just not what it's about. There's a core theme to it and if you change it too much you end with a mess.

What I've outlined isn't the only way to do Westside. Far from it, as Podge and Hanley said rack pulls are a good deadlift exercise, I just think this simplified version is most suitable for the average person who might visit this forum and not know what Westside is.

If you were to take it on as I suggested you would make progress and after a few months start to change things to suit yourself and educate yourself more on how you need to train based on your own circumstances. This is merely something to put the wheels in motion for Westside that is easy to understand and will work. It's very possible to read up on Westside and start training how you think the experts tell you and end up wasting your time.

I'm sure there are plenty of novice powerlifters who used endless cycles of board presses just like Dave Tate does only to do their first competition and get buried. It's like all the frustrated skinny guys who read Jay cutlers workout on Flex and wonder why they aren't growing even though they are copying it exactly. You need to figure out the principles of how these guys got to where they are and apply them to your training rather than just imitate their actions.

Hanley

I miss Kev

This is one of the best threads in the history of the forum imo.

colman1212

I think I might give this a go. Looking for something new at the moment.
Would the following template look ok or am I gone badly wrong on anything?

Monday: ME Lower
Squat 4 x 1 @90%+
Good mornings 4 x 5
Leg press 4 x 5
Weighted sit ups 4 x 5


Tuesday: RE Upper
Bench 3 x 10 @60%
One armed row 3 x 10
DB bench 3 x 10
Chin ups 3 x 10



Thursday: RE Lower
Squat 3 x 10 @ 60%
Good mornings 3 x 10
Leg press 3 x 10
Ab work 3 x 20

Friday: ME Upper
Bench 4 x 1 @90%+
One armed row 4 x 5
DB bench 4 x 5
Weighted Chin ups 4 x 5

Turbo_diesel

kevpants wrote: »

Westside is a powerlifting program. Therefore it was designed with the premise in mind to increase the squat/bench/deadlift. WS4SB is one of many improvised programs that have been done off the basis of Westside. Joe Defranco customized it for use with NFL hopefuls training for the NFL combine, then decided he could sell it.

Non-powerlifters use Westside for the overall size and strength gains it offers and while it's customizable I think substituting bench with overhead press is taking it too far. For one I wouldn't recommend a beginner or even intermediate lifter repeatedly push their 1rm on the overhead press. I'd say you could measure the time it would take to get injured in minutes rather than weeks. Secondly it's just not what it's about. There's a core theme to it and if you change it too much you end with a mess.

What I've outlined isn't the only way to do Westside. Far from it, as Podge and Hanley said rack pulls are a good deadlift exercise, I just think this simplified version is most suitable for the average person who might visit this forum and not know what Westside is.

If you were to take it on as I suggested you would make progress and after a few months start to change things to suit yourself and educate yourself more on how you need to train based on your own circumstances. This is merely something to put the wheels in motion for Westside that is easy to understand and will work. It's very possible to read up on Westside and start training how you think the experts tell you and end up wasting your time.

I'm sure there are plenty of novice powerlifters who used endless cycles of board presses just like Dave Tate does only to do their first competition and get buried. It's like all the frustrated skinny guys who read Jay cutlers workout on Flex and wonder why they aren't growing even though they are copying it exactly. You need to figure out the principles of how these guys got to where they are and apply them to your training rather than just imitate their actions.

At last I understand the Westside stuff great post! As Kev mentioned above it wouldnt be advisable to Press on the ME upper body day would benching that often & with all its variations lead to shoulder problems? Is it a decent newbie programme?

Hanley

Turbo_diesel wrote: »

At last I understand the Westside stuff great post! As Kev mentioned above it wouldnt be advisable to Press on the ME upper body day would benching that often & with all its variations lead to shoulder problems? Is it a decent newbie programme?

I think if you're goal is to solely get a bigger squat, bench and deadlift, and are just starting off, pure westside probably isn't the way to go.

But it's only a templated and can be managed to suit different goals.

Turbo_diesel

Hanley wrote: »

I think if you're goal is to solely get a bigger squat, bench and deadlift, and are just starting off, pure westside probably isn't the way to go.

But it's only a templated and can be managed to suit different goals.

So would throwing in conditioning be a no no on this programme as it would have an effect on recovery?

Hanley out of interest what do you think is the perfect programme for the newb/novice lifter? Goals for example to just get stonger & fitter ? Something like the IProgrammes with one core lift & then your assistance stuff? Throw in your conditioning days etc?

colman1212

colman1212 wrote: »

I think I might give this a go. Looking for something new at the moment.
Would the following template look ok or am I gone badly wrong on anything?

Monday: ME Lower
Squat 4 x 1 @90%+
Good mornings 4 x 5
Leg press 4 x 5
Weighted sit ups 4 x 5


Tuesday: RE Upper
Bench 3 x 10 @60%
One armed row 3 x 10
DB bench 3 x 10
Chin ups 3 x 10



Thursday: RE Lower
Squat 3 x 10 @ 60%
Good mornings 3 x 10
Leg press 3 x 10
Ab work 3 x 20

Friday: ME Upper
Bench 4 x 1 @90%+
One armed row 4 x 5
DB bench 4 x 5
Weighted Chin ups 4 x 5

Bump - Sorry lads. Does the above program look right or have I got it all wrong??

Hanley

colman1212 wrote: »

I think I might give this a go. Looking for something new at the moment.
Would the following template look ok or am I gone badly wrong on anything?

Monday: ME Lower
Squat 4 x 1 @90%+
Good mornings 4 x 5
Leg press 4 x 5
Weighted sit ups 4 x 5

I dunno how good an idea starting with singles is. You might be better working down from max 3-5 over 3 weeks to near max singles.
You need to be progressing with the assistance/supplementary work. Starting at 5’s is going to make that hard. You’d be better starting with 3-4 x10-12, trying to increase each week (either via reps or weight) and coming down to where 5’s are difficult over like a 4-6 week period.

Tuesday: RE Upper
Bench 3 x 10 @60%
One armed row 3 x 10
DB bench 3 x 10
Chin ups 3 x 10

Yeah looks grand.

Thursday: RE Lower
Squat 3 x 10 @ 60%
Good mornings 3 x 10
Leg press 3 x 10
Ab work 3 x 20

You should probably have different exercises in here to your ME day. Like Squats can stay, cos you need the volume (just don’t wreck yourself on them on this day), but ya also want to get some DL related stuff in.

Like maybe deadlifts/rack pulls as a first movement (nothing killer, but moderately tough sets of 5), follow with squats, leg curls or pull thrus and ab work.

Friday: ME Upper
Bench 4 x 1 @90%+
One armed row 4 x 5
DB bench 4 x 5
Weighted Chin ups 4 x 5

Again, change the exercises from your RE day. You don’t want to be doing the same movements 2x really. Maybe have a bench variation (board press, band press, incline press etc etc), a barbell row, dips/some other bench assistance and keep the weighted chins cos they’re awesome.

It’s very light on DL stuff as well as youv’e written it.

Turbo_diesel wrote: »

So would throwing in conditioning be a no no on this programme as it would have an effect on recovery?

Hanley out of interest what do you think is the perfect programme for the newb/novice lifter? Goals for example to just get stonger & fitter ? Something like the IProgrammes with one core lift & then your assistance stuff? Throw in your conditioning days etc?

It depends…. Are you putting them in for a specific reason? How hard are your sessions? What’s your recovery like? Kcals deficit/excess? It’s very individual as to what you can handle.

Perfect program for someone just getting started? Again it depends on their background. Something like the IP set up of 2 dedicated strength days and 2 ‘conditioning’ days (which are really as much about volume as anything) would be a pretty good starting point.

Like with the iPrograms you’ve a lower body push/upper body pull and lower body pull/upper body push on the two days with balanced assistance work, and then you’ve a couple of high intensity interval blocks and some moderate intensity muscle building blocks as part of the conditioniong days. It covers most the bases really.