The worst thing about this recession

stovelid

Fighting Irish wrote: »

I believe the best way to make people learn is to let them make mistakes

A premise not really borne out by how well humankind has learned from the previous x amount of property /economic booms.

b28

Fighting Irish wrote: »

Is all the jealousy it has brought out in people towards other people who have money.
Its not their fault they were sensible with their money and job choice.

Also its not the banks fault that you have a €400K mortgage that you're finding hard to pay back

It's also not the banks fault that children and families can be evicted with nowhere else to go?
Or is it a crime to show some compassion now?

seriously! this is ridiculous! its the greedy bankers and builders trade that caused this problem! and you dont blame the bankers?
well the family living 2 miles away from me are being evicted because they can't afford their mortgage after both lost their jobs? whos fault is that?

what an ignorant statement! are you rich?
I've come back from canada after 2 years, i wont be building a house here! anyway, the banks aren't giving out full mortgages anymore, and property prices are falling! happy days for those who were sensible, not so happy for the poor kids and families in trouble!
if people like you were in charge, id hate to see what the country would be like; then again politicians are professionals at concealing their real motives or cares! they care about themselves, not the people!:rolleyes:

b28

Fighting Irish wrote: »

I believe the best way to make people learn is to let them make mistakes

Ok, so you're saying its peoples mistake that they lost their job?
is it their fault they never expected to get made redundant?

is it their fault when the economy was doing well that they expected in 10 years time or whatever that their job would be secure and they'd have the mortgage payed?

Your saying we should all be naturally gifted clairvoyants in that case and gamble with our predictions of the future! and if we gamble and it doesn't go out way, we learn from our mistake! your talkin absolute b****x!

Fighting Irish

Nobody forced anybody to buy anything, sure what would happen if we all asked the bank for some compassion?

b28 wrote: »

It's also not the banks fault that children and families can be evicted with nowhere else to go?
Or is it a crime to show some compassion now?

seriously! this is ridiculous! its the greedy bankers and builders trade that caused this problem! and you dont blame the bankers?
well the family living 2 miles away from me are being evicted because they can't afford their mortgage after both lost their jobs? whos fault is that?

what an ignorant statement! are you rich?
I've come back from canada after 2 years, i wont be building a house here! anyway, the banks aren't giving out full mortgages anymore, and property prices are falling! happy days for those who were sensible, not so happy for the poor kids and families in trouble!
if people like you were in charge, id hate to see what the country would be like; then again politicians are professionals at concealing their real motives or cares! they care about themselves, not the people!:rolleyes:

Fighting Irish

lol hows that debt?

Its not their fault they lost their jobs, but the 400K mortgage is their problem. Banks might have given out money too easily but they didn't force anyone

I expected to win the lotto last week but didn't? Who's fault is that?

b28 wrote: »

Ok, so you're saying its peoples mistake that they lost their job?
is it their fault they never expected to get made redundant?

is it their fault when the economy was doing well that they expected in 10 years time or whatever that their job would be secure and they'd have the mortgage payed?

Your saying we should all be naturally gifted clairvoyants in that case and gamble with our predictions of the future! and if we gamble and it doesn't go out way, we learn from our mistake! your talkin absolute b****x!

Fighting Irish

b28 wrote: »

Ok, so you're saying its peoples mistake that they lost their job?
is it their fault they never expected to get made redundant?

is it their fault when the economy was doing well that they expected in 10 years time or whatever that their job would be secure and they'd have the mortgage payed?

Your saying we should all be naturally gifted clairvoyants in that case and gamble with our predictions of the future! and if we gamble and it doesn't go out way, we learn from our mistake! your talkin absolute b****x!

lol

b28

Fighting Irish wrote: »

Nobody forced anybody to buy anything, sure what would happen if we all asked the bank for some compassion?

I think you missed my point entirely..

I don't have a mortgage, Ireland is embarrassed because of its banking system and the corruption involved!

Yeah, a basic necessity of life is a house! Parents with kids have a in build desire to create a home for their family. Or am I missing the point your making, people should not buy a house for their family? They should rent a flat for the rest of their life to raise the kids in?:rolleyes:

Say lol all you like. Where's a 3 letter abbreviation gonna get you LOL

Fighting Irish

b28 wrote: »

I think you missed my point entirely..

I don't have a mortgage,

I was just taking the piss

b28 wrote: »

Ireland is embarrassed because of its banking system and the corruption involved!

Yeah, a basic necessity of life is a house! Parents with kids have a in build desire to create a home for their family. Or am I missing the point your making, people should not buy a house for their family? They should rent a flat for the rest of their life to raise the kids in?:rolleyes:

Say lol all you like. Where's a 3 letter abbreviation gonna get you LOL

The way i see it is
The whole country knew we were in a boom
People bought crappy houses for 300K knowing that this boom couldn't last forever
Some people prepared and a lot didn't
At the end of the day, your debt is your problem, nobody elses

b28

Fighting Irish wrote: »

lol hows that debt?

Its not their fault they lost their jobs, but the 400K mortgage is their problem. Banks might have given out money too easily but they didn't force anyone

I expected to win the lotto last week but didn't? Who's fault is that?

That's ridiculous!

Banks didn't force anyone yeah fair enough.

It's your fault you didn't win the lottery obviously.

stepbar

Mr.Lizard wrote: »

Eh yes it is. I'd compare what the banks do to an adult giving a child poison and telling them it's sweets. When the child gets sick it's somehow suddenly the childs fault for liking sweets?

Most adults really don't have a clue when it comes to basic economics and furthermore it's not their fault either. Western society doesn't educate people on the financial matters that apply to their life deliberately so they'll just fall into the trap like everyone else and then spend the rest of their lives working like a virtual slave to get out of it. There should be mandatory classes in school to teach people how to manage money .... but of course that'd never happen because government and the banks would rather keep us in the dark from day one.

Eh, seriously come on. There's no excuse for not educating one self. Truth is most people are naturally lazy when it comes to most things in life, especially money.

b28

Fighting Irish wrote: »

I was just taking the piss

I don't care if you were taking the piss lol

Fighting Irish wrote: »

The way i see it is
The whole country knew we were in a boom
People bought crappy houses for 300K knowing that this boom couldn't last forever
Some people prepared and a lot didn't
At the end of the day, your debt is your problem, nobody elses

Some people didn't. Some people are gamblers, some people nicotine addicts etc. Everyone has different ways of living their life. some are impulsive, some not! It's psychology!
It is their problem, but the government, banks and buildings made a fool of themselves in the eyes of the world, regardless of whether or not it's a global recession!

Why are you so angry about this anyway?

Fighting Irish

b28 wrote: »

That's ridiculous!

Banks didn't force anyone yeah fair enough.

It's your fault you didn't win the lottery obviously.

If you have debt, its your problem yes?

stepbar

Darragh29 wrote: »

What I hate about the recession is that it exposes the very worst traits of Irish people, a complete lack of confidence as a nation, a lack of pride, the need to be basically breastfed when it comes to job creation, a lack of forward or innovative thinking, a failure to act decisively as a nation to remove a government that is wrecking the country, a lack of perceived ownership of the country and the economy...

And you're the man who want's the IMF to come in and sort everything out :rolleyes:

Fighting Irish

b28 wrote: »

I don't care if you were taking the piss lol



Some people didn't. Some people are gamblers, some people nicotine addicts etc. Everyone has different ways of living their life. some are impulsive, some not! It's psychology!
It is their problem, but the government, banks and buildings made a fool of themselves in the eyes of the world, regardless of whether or not it's a global recession!

Why are you so angry about this anyway?

I'm the angry one?

I'm just pointing out how jealous people can be, well that's how the thread started anyway.

Here's some money, pay back this amount per month or we'll repossess your house/car
Deal Yes/No

If you tick Yes then its your problem.

b28

I said already YES.

I understood your point! Off topic, these bank executives took the piss out of the whole system and made a massive profit, but since it's concealed white collar crime until it was revealed and dealt with, it was all swept under the carpet.
Yet, if a person couldn't afford their mortgage, while not breaking any laws, they get evicted. Seems like a ridiculous inequality! I agree, if a person can't pay the mortgage it's their problem. But banks aren't a godly establishment, normal people putting a roof over the family, are the foundation for society, and make banks enough on interest as it is! But if they can't pay it back, even though it's their problem, they get evicted.

So don't go sayin why people blame the banks when its their problem. True, it's their problem, but nobody wants to hear that crap! It's the last thing an evictee wants to hear, wouldn't you agree? Lets not be robots about this!

b28

Fighting Irish wrote: »

I'm the angry one?

I'm just pointing out how jealous people can be, well that's how the thread started anyway.

Here's some money, pay back this amount per month or we'll repossess your house/car
Deal Yes/No

If you tick Yes then its your problem.

Contracts are black and white!

Lifes decisions are more complex than a simple yes or no answer, but sometimes in life, we must gamble! The outcome is whatever happens in the future!

Life is more complex than YES/NO!
And true, if you click yes, you take responsibility for the consequences if you fail to maintain payment. I agree, but lets be a bit more HUMAN about this, I don't envy anyone with money, as they worked hard for it.
I am mature enough to understand, that!

Fighting Irish

b28 wrote: »

I said already YES.

I understood your point! Off topic, these bank executives took the piss out of the whole system and made a massive profit, but since it's concealed white collar crime until it was revealed and dealt with, it was all swept under the carpet.
Yet, if a person couldn't afford their mortgage, while not breaking any laws, they get evicted. Seems like a ridiculous inequality! I agree, if a person can't pay the mortgage it's their problem. But banks aren't a godly establishment, normal people putting a roof over the family, are the foundation for society, and make banks enough on interest as it is! But if they can't pay it back, even though it's their problem, they get evicted.

So don't go sayin why people blame the banks when its their problem. True, it's their problem, but nobody wants to hear that crap! It's the last thing an evictee wants to hear, wouldn't you agree? Lets not be robots about this!

I agree the banks are cun.ts, i never said they weren't

Fighting Irish

b28 wrote: »

Contracts are black and white!

Lifes decisions are more complex than a simple yes or no answer, but sometimes in life, we must gamble! The outcome is whatever happens in the future!

Life is more complex than YES/NO!
And true, if you click yes, you take responsibility for the consequences if you fail to maintain payment. I agree, but lets be a bit more HUMAN about this, I don't envy anyone with money, as they worked hard for it.
I am mature enough to understand, that!

That's grand well i'm not ranting at someone like you, i'm ranting at the people who think its the banks/governments fault that they cannot repay loans

Ulysses Gaze

It's going to come down to one of two things with this recession and property:

Either the banks are going to allow re-writing current 30-35 year mortgages to multi-generational mortgages (50 years+) or they're going to have to revalue the properties to current values and reset the mortgage repayments. As a taxpayer, I'd prefer the latter. Last thing we want is MORE money in a lump sum going to the banks.

As for reposessions......the only thing I can think of is that the bank takes the house and rents it back to the person at a reduced rate. In that instance I think it would be better just to extend the repayment times to multi-generational mortgages which cuts down the monthly repayments and gives the family some dignity.

...most repossessions occur after a huge amount of arrears have been built up by the mortgagee. Usually the high street banks are fairly good about this.

If you got a mortgage through START or GE then expect no mercy. The bulk of repossessions in courts are through these companies.

....and a word of warning to the 'prudent' amongst us. At the end of the day we may not be in debt at the moment but if we intend to stay in Ireland for the next 20 or so years, we're going to be paying for the folly of ALL those who played a part in the great Tiger House of Cards.

Apportioning blame won't change that.

b28

Fighting Irish wrote: »

That's grand well i'm not ranting at someone like you, i'm ranting at the people who think its the banks/governments fault that they cannot repay loans

You know the nosey old women from your area who complain everyday about one thing or another, the people you are referring to are people like that!
They come in all walks of life, save yourself a cerebral infarction, and forget about them!;)

Fighting Irish

b28 wrote: »

You know the nosey old women from your area who complain everyday about one thing or another, the people you are referring to are people like that!
They come in all walks of life, save yourself a cerebral infarction, and forget about them!;)

She's fairly hot though, its hard not to think about her

b28

Yeah, the ones with with the wrinkles do it for me 2

Fighting Irish

b28 wrote: »

Yeah, the ones with with the wrinkles do it for me 2

I just wish they'd do it to me :pac:

Fizman

flanzer wrote: »

Cry me a river

Made me sing to Justin Timberlake there!!!

"the damage is done so I guess i'll be leaving"......etc

Tony EH

Nobody knew the entire Country was going to drive itself off the edge of a cliff, so laughing at people who have mortgaged themselves into a property they now cannot afford is just plain stupid and can only be done for definite, ex post facto.

Yes, an un-payable debt may be the debtors problem, but it doesn't mean that that problem was entirely the fault of the debtor.

There was enormous pressure on people to purchase over-priced housing, because there was a fear that, even if the market did drop off to an affordable price, they might be too old then to secure a mortgage and thus abandon themselves and their future family to a life of uncertain renting.

Not a problem, if you live in an intelligent Country that has a proper viable renting system (like Germany) where one can rent their entire lives in relative security. But Ireland simply doesn't have the political will to engage in tackling such a system. Renting in the private sector in this Country means you're subjecting yourself to an existence that changes with every lease year. In the past people have seen their rent literally double from one year to the next and there is absolutely nothing that anybody can do about that.

It's this uncertain future that corners people into buying homes. How can someone even contemplate bring up a child, when they don't know if they are going to be living in a particular neighborhood from one year to the next?

People were also bombarded with lies by builders, speculators, bankers and the government about the status of the housing market and its stability, that they didn't know which way to turn, even if they expected a downturn in the housing market.

In addition, NOBODY expected that the entire financial system would be on its knees in 2009 in such a manner as we've seen. That they (quite often two adults) would be losing their jobs, with no hope of finding new ones in the short term, in the worst hemorrhaging of work this Country has ever seen.

There has been a number events that have arrived at the same time to conspire together and make for serious, serious problems for many people in this Country which will probably follow them now for the rest of their lives and to simply sit back and say, "Well, it's their fault in the first place for taking out a mortgage", is missing the boat entirely.

Elle Victorine

everything is cheaper and I still can't afford it????


Also there's not enough lidls/aldis near me.