The worst thing about this recession

segaBOY

BrightEyes wrote: »

The worst thing about the recession is that it was allowed to happen. Bogger developers with their bogger associates who were not educated and used to money were allowed to run the place. Simple people who should never have been afforded entire 'Boom Pies' when a slice was good enough for them. When will you people learn that democracy just doesn't work

Or those educated Dublin ****ers who were in the Central Bank.....

Dudess

Fighting Irish wrote: »

I agree but what about the last ten years when they did blow money on that sorta sh1t, i betcha that money would come in handy now if they had saved it

What if they didn't waste their money on flash sh1t? The point I'm making is: not just eejits are ****ed in this climate. People from all sorts of circumstances are, including sensible ones.

Fighting Irish

Dudess wrote: »

What if they didn't waste their money on flash sh1t? The point I'm making is: not just eejits are ****ed in this climate. People from all sorts of circumstances are, including sensible ones.

I understand that, but the majority of people went overboard.

Dudess

A sizable number yes, but I don't know about the majority. Didn't look like it to me.

segaBOY

Fighting Irish wrote: »

I understand that, but the majority of people went overboard.

To be fair for a lot of young couples the average price of a house was €350,000 or more, both had to work to cover the Mortgage and if you had a child the childcare costs cost €10k+ pa alone.

I think your statement of "the majority of people went overboard" is wrong. People were fooled or tricked into buying at the height of it all-all they had to do was open up an economics book (A few years ago I remember looking at a book published in 1996 and coming to my own conclusions) but they were fed the line that prices were going to keep rising-not fully their fault.

I agree that more than enough people went overboard, I remember seeing on George Lee's "How we blew the boom" some salesman at Land of Leather was boasting how he's earn €1k after tax and that was on a slow week-then went on to say he spent 2 months with his son in Spain and now was struggling to make ends meet. (he switchd jobs to a taxi driver and was complaining about the hours...)

I have no pity for this case considering that guy would have grew up in the 80s-a bit stupid to be so reckless with his money.

Disease Ridden

Fighting Irish is saying what you's all know but dont want to admit to yourselves!

In my own experience, I know one chap in his late 20's now, never got any sort of loan out during the times of easy credit to buy flashy sh'it to keep up with the joneses. If he wanted something like a nice telly he'd simply save up in cash on the side and go in and buy something that was a good deal.

Nor was he sucked into buying an extremely, EXTREMELY overpriced average home like so many of his mates were. He knew that a pile of bricks and bulding materials built into a house wasnt worth such an amount that it would take the rest of his life to pay back. Even now, he is of the opinion that those houses are greatly overpriced.

He rented out instead as he wasn't so weak willed that he felt the need to jump onto the property ladder like the rest of his age-group. Now that the bubble has burst and everybody is returning to their proper and deserved place in society (not the undeserved, artificial position of wealth based on credit) they all come to him for a bailout or lend of money.
He's in a quite secure job (not public sector) and on a good wage afaik.

I sympathize with anybody who lived modestly during the boom years and now finds themselves in difficulty after having lost their job, but to be honest, I think those people are few and far between.

Fighting Irish

segaBOY wrote: »

To be fair for a lot of young couples the average price of a house was €350,000 or more, both had to work to cover the Mortgage and if you had a child the childcare costs cost €10k+ pa alone.

I think your statement of "the majority of people went overboard" is wrong. People were fooled or tricked into buying at the height of it all-all they had to do was open up an economics book (A few years ago I remember looking at a book published in 1996 and coming to my own conclusions) but they were fed the line that prices were going to keep rising-not fully their fault.

I agree that more than enough people went overboard, I remember seeing on George Lee's "How we blew the boom" some salesman at Land of Leather was boasting how he's earn €1k after tax and that was on a slow week-then went on to say he spent 2 months with his son in Spain and now was struggling to make ends meet. (he switchd jobs to a taxi driver and was complaining about the hours...)

I have no pity for this case considering that guy would have grew up in the 80s-a bit stupid to be so reckless with his money.

I have no pity for people who were fooled into buying something

segaBOY

Fighting Irish wrote: »

I have no pity for people who were fooled into buying something

That's fine, pity's not going to solve anything anyway.

Agree with you OP but I think tarring the "majority" of people with the same brush is incorrect.

I for one was a student for the last few years, never went on holiday or had lavish bashes-worked every summer etc. Did what had to be done, I am not part of this majority you speak of and neither are most if not all of my college friends.

Fighting Irish

segaBOY wrote: »

That's fine, pity's not going to solve anything anyway.

Agree with you OP but I think tarring the "majority" of people with the same brush is incorrect.

I for one was a student for the last few years, never went on holiday or had lavish bashes-worked every summer etc. Did what had to be done, I am not part of this majority you speak of and neither are most if not all of my college friends.

I just hate jealousy, and the people who are blaming everyone but themselves

Abi

It is pretty simple. Don't make any large purchases at the height of an economic boom. I didn't, therefore the economic down turn has had little effect on me personally. The cost of living is dropping nicely. Must be nearly time to buy a new car..

Maybe the government could do something constructive for once, and issue a citizens guide book to survival.


Chapter one: RECESSIONS HAPPEN.
Careful now.

Disease Ridden

segaBOY wrote: »

I have no pity for this case considering that guy would have grew up in the 80s-a bit stupid to be so reckless with his money.

This is why I find it very hard to sympathize with the people in this country who went overboard during the boom years; before, say, the mid 90's, they had only ever known a life of having little and should therefore have known the value of money.

That guy who was on George Lee's documetary really should have known better. Nobody working as a salesman should have been able to enjoy the kind of lefestyle that he did, its just not realisitc. He came across as completely deserving of what happened to him.

segaBOY

Disease Ridden wrote: »

Fighting Irish is saying what you's all know but dont want to admit to yourselves!

In my own experience, I know one chap in his late 20's now, never got any sort of loan out during the times of easy credit to buy flashy sh'it to keep up with the joneses. If he wanted something like a nice telly he'd simply save up in cash on the side and go in and buy something that was a good deal.

Nor was he sucked into buying an extremely, EXTREMELY overpriced average home like so many of his mates were. He knew that a pile of bricks and bulding materials built into a house wasnt worth such an amount that it would take the rest of his life to pay back. Even now, he is of the opinion that those houses are greatly overpriced.

He rented out instead as he wasn't so weak willed that he felt the need to jump onto the property ladder like the rest of his age-group. Now that the bubble has burst and everybody is returning to their proper and deserved place in society (not the undeserved, artificial position of wealth based on credit) they all come to him for a bailout or lend of money.
He's in a quite secure job (not public sector) and on a good wage afaik.

I sympathize with anybody who lived modestly during the boom years and now finds themselves in difficulty after having lost their job, but to be honest, I think those people are few and far between.

Fair play to him,he had a bit of sense. I know someone who's brother had bought 2, yes 2 houses in Dublin (only in his mid to late 20s), her sister also bought a house in a housing estate out the country but still lived at home when she was in her early 20s. (This all happened from 2005-2008) and furthermore the girl I know then decided to go looking for a house in 2008. I told her to wait, she wouldn't listen.

There all public service btw.

It's the newly wed couple who felt pressurised into getting a house is who I feel sorry for-gonna get flamed for this but we all know how women can nag without logic sometimes.........

Dudess

Disease Ridden wrote: »

Fighting Irish is saying what you's all know but dont want to admit to yourselves!

Eh... no he isn't. He seemed to be saying initially that he had no sympathy for anyone who was in dire financial straits now, then when he was actually made think about this statement, he back-tracked a bit.
Now he's saying those who were idiots with money during the boom and in trouble now don't deserve much sympathy - fair enough, I for one have no problem with admitting that "to myself".

In my own experience, I know one chap in his late 20's now, never got any sort of loan out during the times of easy credit to buy flashy sh'it to keep up with the joneses. If he wanted something like a nice telly he'd simply save up in cash on the side and go in and buy something that was a good deal.

Nor was he sucked into buying an extremely, EXTREMELY overpriced average home like so many of his mates were. He knew that a pile of bricks and bulding materials built into a house wasnt worth such an amount that it would take the rest of his life to pay back. Even now, he is of the opinion that those houses are greatly overpriced.

He rented out instead as he wasn't so weak willed that he felt the need to jump onto the property ladder like the rest of his age-group. Now that the bubble has burst and everybody is returning to their proper and deserved place in society (not the undeserved, artificial position of wealth based on credit) they all come to him for a bailout or lend of money.
He's in a quite secure job (not public sector) and on a good wage afaik.

I sympathize with anybody who lived modestly during the boom years and now finds themselves in difficulty after having lost their job, but to be honest, I think those people are few and far between.

LOL - so you know a person who wasn't a flashy eejit with money, therefore the sensible people who lost their jobs are "few and far between"?

It's as if the majority of people who lost their jobs are personally responsible for it and were irresponsible with cash. Priceless.

Fighting Irish

Fighting Irish wrote: »

Is all the jealousy it has brought out in people towards other people who have money.
Its not their fault they were sensible with their money and job choice.

Also its not the banks fault that you have a €400K mortgage that you're finding hard to pay back

No, the worst thing about the recession is constantly being reminded if it.

T.G Catter

Well for me it has been mainly,
Seeing young well-educated people signing on for the dole, who worked hard in school and college and as apprentices and paid their taxes etc.
Seeing the hard-working self-employed not being able to get a penny back from the government when they are now out of work.
Seeing my friends upset and on protective notice and having to return to living with their parents and giving up their LIFE.

Seeing the lowest common denominators being rewarded for never working.
Having to deal with the most stupid people in the universe in fas offices and social welfare offices has been shocking!
Not being able to get the dole and waiting for some means tested job seekers allowance bo""ocks, where I'll probably get 30 euro a week.
Facing up to the reality that I will have to leave Ireland - my home and go start a life somewhere else.

It's all very sad, and that's the worst thing about this recession.

Dudess

T.G Catter wrote: »

Well for me it has been mainly,
Seeing young well-educated people signing on for the dole, who worked hard in school and college and as apprentices and paid their taxes etc.
Seeing the hard-working self-employed not being able to get a penny back from the government when they are now out of work.
Seeing my friends upset and on protective notice and having to return to living with their parents and giving up their LIFE.

Not being able to get the dole and waiting for some means tested job seekers allowance bo""ocks, where I'll probably get 30 euro a week.
Facing up to the reality that I will have to leave Ireland - my home and go start a life somewhere else.

Oh no T.G., it's all your/their fault!

It's all very sad, and that's the worst thing about this recession.

Indeed. Seriously, if a person thinks resentment towards those who still have work is "the worst thing about the recession" they don't have much to worry about...

raunch

Fighting Irish wrote: »

Is all the jealousy it has brought out in people towards other people who have money.
Its not their fault they were sensible with their money and job choice.

Also its not the banks fault that you have a €400K mortgage that you're finding hard to pay back

I would have thought that the worst thing about the recession is the uncertainty that a lot of people feel.

SheroN

The worst thing is people living in a constant state of fear and uncertainty. I've noticed people who I would have thought to be the most carefree people around become nervous wrecks over the past year.

Disease Ridden

Dudess wrote: »

LOL - so you know a person who wasn't a flashy eejit with money, therefore the sensible people who lost their jobs are "few and far between"?

It's as if the majority of people who lost their jobs are personally responsible for it and were irresponsible with cash. Priceless.

Think about people who worked in construction and were earning 1,000 euros a week no bother to them. People working in construction, especially those who were involved in it 15 or 20 years ago, should have known that those kind of wages wouldnt last forever; construction workers were never as well paid as those working during the years approx 2001-2007. The people who lived in this country before the boom have only ever known hard times and should have built up a mentality that if they wanted something they should save for it and live within their means. Everybody thought they were entitled to be rich.

I must admit that I often have the big fat breakfast-roll eating, rip-off charging , land-rover driving, mansion dwelling bastards of the Celtic Tiger construction industry in mind when I'm thinking about these things so apolgies if my posts look angry!

Dudess

Grand, a significant number of people were tools with their money - nobody is disputing that. But why all these generalisations about "the majority", "the sensible people being few and far between" etc?

Darragh29

Fighting Irish wrote: »

Is all the jealousy it has brought out in people towards other people who have money.
Its not their fault they were sensible with their money and job choice.

Also its not the banks fault that you have a €400K mortgage that you're finding hard to pay back

What I hate about the recession is that it exposes the very worst traits of Irish people, a complete lack of confidence as a nation, a lack of pride, the need to be basically breastfed when it comes to job creation, a lack of forward or innovative thinking, a failure to act decisively as a nation to remove a government that is wrecking the country, a lack of perceived ownership of the country and the economy...

Darragh29

Dudess wrote: »

Grand, a significant number of people were tools with their money - nobody is disputing that. But why all these generalisations about "the majority", "the sensible people being few and far between" etc?

It's funny how over the last few years, so many people were trying to distuinguish themselves with fancy cars, fancy houses, fancy everything.

Now all everyone wants to be is a "normal Joe"! Every c*nt with ten houses and 3 marque cars now is ringing up Joe Duffy now and the first words out of their mouths now are, "Look, I'm just a normal Joe"...

Disease Ridden

Dudess wrote: »

Grand, a significant number of people were tools with their money - nobody is disputing that. But why all these generalisations about "the majority", "the sensible people being few and far between" etc?

I dont know, I just have a habit of making sweeping generalisations I suppose. It honestly appears to me to be the case, but I could be wrong. It just seems that in the year 2006 everybody in the country was throwing money around like confetti and hopping from job to job like a recession would never come, despite a lot of them having lived through times when there were no jobs, massive interest rates, massive tax, very little disposable income...I dont know. One walk through the local shopping centre in 2006 was enough to make me wonder "how the hell can there be this many well dressed people with all this disposable income in a country that dosent produce any wealth, this isnt natural!!" .

Everybody in my class at secondary school with the exception of myself and maybe 3 or 4 others used to bring money to school and buy big hot meal lunches and fizzy drinks that schoolkids could only have dreamed of 15 years ago. I used to be slagged at by some of the boys for never bringing money into school! That symbolized it for me, cnunts queing up to buy rolls at break EVERY DAY, and thinking it was NORMAL, instead of just bringing some sandwiches and a bottle of water.

JohnCleary

flanzer wrote: »

Cry me a river

Cry me a fiver

Dudess

Darragh29 wrote: »

What I hate about the recession is that it exposes the very worst traits of Irish people

Actually I'd have said that about an economic boom.

the need to be basically breastfed when it comes to job creation

That'll happen when there's no money.

maidie

Disease Ridden wrote: »

I dont know, I just have a habit of making sweeping generalisations I suppose. It honestly appears to me to be the case, but I could be wrong. It just seems that in the year 2006 everybody in the country was throwing money around like confetti and hopping from job to job like a recession would never come, despite a lot of them having lived through times when there were no jobs, massive interest rates, massive tax, very little disposable income...I dont know. One walk through the local shopping centre in 2006 was enough to make me wonder "how the hell can there be this many well dressed people with all this disposable income in a country that dosent produce any wealth, this isnt natural!!" .

Everybody in my class at secondary school with the exception of myself and maybe 3 or 4 others used to bring money to school and buy big hot meal lunches and fizzy drinks that schoolkids could only have dreamed of 15 years ago. I used to be slagged at by some of the boys for never bringing money into school! That symbolized it for me, cnunts queing up to buy rolls at break EVERY DAY, and thinking it was NORMAL, instead of just bringing some sandwiches and a bottle of water.

I have to agree, I noticed a new trend with my daughter who is in 6th year...The return of the flask and soup in school, alongside a refilled bottle of water from Supermarket (2L costs 39c compared to about 1.50 for small bottle) and a cheese sandwich. She started this herself so I presume all her schoolmates are doing the same thing. Makes me think of the days when I had bread and Jam sandwiches, no drink and if I didn't babysit on the sunday night I wouldn't have the busfare to school on a monday morning.. But you know everything was appreciated, and the majority of people were in the same boat. I don't ever remember any empasis put on the value of cars/houses/boats etc.. We went a bit mad there for a few years and those who have overspent are now pulling their hair out with stress about debt, Its sad, the people I feel so sorry for are those who are now on the dole through no fault of their own,people who have always worked... In fairness in relation to overspending during the boom times, WE did work hard and enjoyed the fruits of out labour because we felt deserved it.

stovelid

Being judgmental is shitty - whether it's bearing malice toward those who have been prudent and lived within their means, or whether you're laughing it up at families who have overextended themselves or are on the verge of losing their homes.

stovelid

Another thing I can't bear about the recession is the scapegoating. In particular, the malice and callousness of unemployed bashing. There seems to be more bashing of the jobless, teachers and bus drivers than bankers and politicians at times.

Disregarding the (always exaggerated even in boom times) small hardcore of people who won't work, thousands of people who have paid tax for a long time are losing their jobs.

I was made redundant six weeks ago but thankfully found another job in my field two weeks ago. Of the two people I chatted to when queuing to claim my stamps, one was a graduate, and the other had just been let go from a well-paying job that he had held for years.

There really is a young section of our society that have zero experience of unemployment. Is everybody in the private sector so sure of their jobs that they can campaign for a reduction in/no social welfare? And if they did lose their jobs, would they live by their principles and donate half their dole to charity or refuse it altogether?

admiralofthefleet

....is that people wont shut up about it

Fighting Irish

stovelid wrote: »

Being judgmental is shitty - whether it's bearing malice toward those who have been prudent and lived within their means, or whether you're laughing it up at families who have overextended themselves or are on the verge of losing their homes.

I believe the best way to make people learn is to let them make mistakes