Elephant taken down with a bow and arrow.. ... .. by a lady

Double Barrel

"The villagers kept scaring the other elephants. They would run away from the wounded one but would run back to him. It was a constant running back and forth. I was ready to go after the one I shot but Dudley said that it was too dangerous. He was too close, the others were agitated and it was getting dark. We decided to leave until the next morning."

Most here have not hunted elephants or any of the big five, and are not familiar with their behaviour before and after an animal is shot. Hunting elephants is dangerous. A shot pachyderm is extremely dangerous. Tracking a wounded animal anytime is dangerous but especially at dusk in heavy cover. It is not wise.
Better left for clear heads and good light.

On dangerous game hunts, the presence of backup rifles exists to prevent possible tragedy to the people and suffering of the game should the need arise. Most PH prefer their clients to do all the shooting themselves and most if not all African countries have a rule that no professional hunter shall fire together with the client, unless in self-defence or in the dispatch of a dangerous wounded animal. The PH and the client discuss this in detail before hand and the procedure is clear.

The PH determined that the arrow had found its mark as at 10 yards he was in a position to get a good view of the entry wound and determine his course of action. I would assume he and the client had discussed the possibility for a follow up shot and he was not to take a shot if in his judgement the arrow flew true and inflicted a mortal strike .

I have only used a bow on whitetail and blacktail deer in North America. I appreciate the skill that is involved getting into bow range on a stalk, much closer than many would ever hope to get with a rifle.

An arrow through the heart or both lungs kills really fast, just as quick as with a rifle, and in some cases quicker. Arrows kill by inflicting massive bleeding resulting in haemorrhagic shock and subsequent loss of consciousness and death. A properly placed arrow is not as traumatic on the game at the shot, they will not hear the loud report of a rifle nor feel the dramatic hit/shock of a bullet. Sometimes they may jump and trot off a little ways, browse or just stand still and suddenly drop dead.
I would be very surprised if the animal in question survived more than a few minutes and was in no pain right up to the end, if he had being left alone.
His adrenaline kicked in when the - "The villagers kept scaring the other elephants. They would run away from the wounded one but would run back to him." - causing him to travel 500 yards before expiring.

I am not advocating shooting dangerous game with small calibre rifles or light bows but Walter Bell killed over 2000 elephants in his lifetime mostly - over a thousand- with a .275 Rigby (7x57mm) , and several hundred with each of the following - a 6.5x54mm a 303, and a .318 WR.
Shot placement. He studied the anatomy of the animals he was hunting and practised continuously mostly dry firing at objects as he traversed the continent on foot . He once killed 23 Cape buffalo with 23 shots using a .22 Savage High Power. Not something I would recommend.

meathstevie

I'd rate a bow still a bit nicer than ZANU/PF's preferred method of big gime hunting : the cheapest bang for a few ZIM bucks; landmines.

jwshooter

BD ,what a life .
Karamojo bell shot most of 2,000+ elephants over half with a .275 rigby i think rigby have this rifle now.
im sure i have a old video from rigby some where and a guy using a 275 it on game in england

his first shot was always a brain shot ,he even used a ladder at times in long grass to get his height held by the trackers.

would you spend 10,000 dollars to shoot a elephant .i wounder how much a shoulder mount would cost .

where would you hang it.

would the .270 be up to the job.

how much of a tip will i give the trackers and the PH .

what would it taste like ,

would davey's knife be up to the job of gutting.

would my drag rope go around its head ,

would i get it into my land rover.

is my freezer big enough.


before you embark on your elephant there are a few questions you should ask your self

Hagar

Why would anyone kill an elephant?
Needless slaughter.
I'm not against hunting in general but killing elephants for sport?

Sparks

Hagar wrote: »

I'm not against hunting in general but killing elephants for sport?

I don't think much of it myself, but it does have positive side effects - meat for the locals, money to pay for protecting the herds against poachers and the like. It would be nicer if that was paid for by governments, but the average government in that region is somewhat ineffectual and burdened with problems like not letting all the humans starve to death, so they don't pay much heed to elephants.

Like I said, it's unpleasant, but this does represent a renewable resource being harvested in a sustainable way.

Half-cocked

This sort of thing gives hunting a bad name. To the non-hunting public, we all get tarred with the same brush. Humane dispatch should always be a hunters goal. Letting an animal bleed to death from it's wounds over night is unethical to say the least.

Half-cocked

Hagar wrote: »

Why would anyone kill an elephant?
Needless slaughter.
I'm not against hunting in general but killing elephants for sport?

I've been to East Africa on several occasions and the elephant herds there are so used to humans that you can approach them quite close. There's no real fieldcraft involved in 'stalking' a wild elephant in these areas. Sadly, these animals don't recognize national borders. In Kenya they are protected and will continue peacefully grazing while busloads of tourists drive up to them for a few pics. Then they wander over the border into Tanzania and get shot by a fat Yank who pays €20K+ for the 'hunt'. I'm not saying it's not dangerous to hunt elephants, but in many cases, the 'hunter' is shooting an animal that is habituated to humans. It's the equivalent of an Irish hunter going stalking in a deer farm.

Grizzly 45

For anything decent in an elephant trophy which is 60lbs plus of Ivory tusk per side.You are looking at USD $37,500 plus trophy fee,plus ancillary expenses of guides,porters,travel to and from,food,tips etc, Say about 45to 48K.That is a Hell of a load of money in a country that has a currency of 1USD to 1 Trillion Zimbabwae Dollars.Even after local officaldom has had it's take as well.Thats still a lotta money to put down for a hunt,or a bet.Wish I had that sort of money.:rolleyes:

jwshooter

there is a man in the uk peter carr that is a sporting agent and can organise a elephant cull form as little as 6,000 GB pounds

kakashka

jwshooter wrote: »

there is a man in the uk peter carr that is a sporting agent and can organise a elephant cull form as little as 6,000 GB pounds

could probably organised two legged cull's for less than that!!
(Walter Bell,dont think he was native??!)

jwshooter

W D M bell. by james passmore

bell shot 1,011 elephants with 6, different 275 rigbys for 1.5 shots per animal.

he even shot 300 with a 6.5x54 mannlicher scheonauer .

he shot 9 one day making him 877 pounds

in one expedition he made 23,000 pounds back in the turn of the century this was big bucks.
his nick name karamojo came the area in uganda where shot most of his elephants .
he was born in scotland 1880 and died in 1951 in scotland .

how thats what i call a life.

meathstevie

jwshooter wrote: »

there is a man in the uk peter carr that is a sporting agent and can organise a elephant cull form as little as 6,000 GB pounds

And that's exactly how a lot of private game reserves and national parks in the more organised African countries manage their game herds. In the end nobody has anything to gain with for example a herd of elephant going on the rampage in small agricultural villages around national parks when food in the park is running scarce through overpopulation. It's no different than the NPWS over here managing the deer in the Wicklow or Kerry national parks. I don't know the current situation but in South Africa for example you could buy canned elephant meat straight from the national parks cull.

Of course it becomes more problematic when the likes of Zimbabwe have to get in every penny they can get or have to slaughter game on an industrial scale to feed the government scum/muscle.

To make a long story short : Africa, and especially sub-Sahara, is a continent cursed with an incredible amount of natural resources and generaly weak government which leaves it open to pillage and plunder by the not so scrupulous locals and outsiders. Oil, diamond, coltan, copper, uranium, ivory, rhinoceros horn, leopard skins, ... . It's all there for the taking if you have the muscle or the bakshees to get your hands on it.

Grizzly 45

Cheap isnt necessarily better on safaris,neither somtimes is expensive either.The only good guide on somthing like this is reputation of the company.Sure it might be 6k all in.But what are you getting for it??
You might get a hunt,but your other important things like accomadation or grub might leave much to be desired.Thats just as important when you are out on somthing as energy sapping as a hunt out there.
Be asking a lot of questions of the company about things like that,and on the net of people who used that company.
It's a Hell of a lot of money for anyone of us to put down for pretty much a trip of a lifetime to have it fukd up over trival details.

Double Barrel

JW

Probably a century or two late but we would muddle through. Not to sure about coming home to the family grouse moor in the Highlands but maybe Walter included us in his testament. There is always hope.

Double Barrel

To expand a little on what Sparks and Stevie wrote.

During the 1980’s South African farmers began to realise the commercial value of game, and started to charge for hunting and charge considerable fees for trophy animals. As it became more lucrative farmers switched from livestock farming to game farming full time. By 1995 there were more than 9,000 registered game farms in South Africa, with a head of game almost eight times the game found in the Kruger National Park. This dramatic increase in the numbers of wild animals was due to one thing – Hunting! Trophy hunting is a sport that has been practised for several hundred years and the stiff license fees end up keeping more game alive than is culled.

Over the past 20-30 years game farming has turned into a science. Game counts are done regularly before the start of each hunting season, and quotas are set in order to ensure sustainability. The local hunting industry earns more than € 70 million per year and the trophy hunting industry contributes a further € 45 million in foreign income. EcoEgo-Tourism only contributes € 20 million to the wildlife industry per annum. The wildlife industry also provides jobs to thousands and in the process support thousands more. A survey done about 5 years ago determined that if hunting should be banned in South Africa, 95%+ of game farmers will resort back to traditional farming like livestock, resulting in the loss of 95%+ of all game on privately owned land.

In 1976 Kenya banned hunting in total. Within 5 years they lost 50% of all their sellable game. Amongst individual species the percentage loss was much higher, especially with elephant and rhino. The fact is that when you allow hunting, you obtain the services of “game rangers” who actually pays for the privilege to do this work. Hunters absolutely detest poachers, and will shoot at them when encountered. By removing hunters from the bush, you also remove policing from such areas.

Trophy hunting provides much needed foreign income, not only to South Africa, but to Africa as a whole. Although the foreign trophy hunter only walks away with his trophy, the meat is utilised. Trophy animals are those past their prime who has already spread their genes. The breeding life of an impala ram is at best 2 years before being kicked out by a stronger younger upstart. A kudu bull has a little longer lifespan as a breeding male, but lasts only about 4 years. Amongst antelope this is about the norm, with probably the exception of Steenbok (Rhaphicerus campestris), which normally mate for life.

Deerspotter

Double Barrel wrote: »

To expand a little on what Sparks and Stevie wrote.

During the 1980’s South African farmers began to realise the commercial value of game, and started to charge for hunting and charge considerable fees for trophy animals. As it became more lucrative farmers switched from livestock farming to game farming full time. By 1995 there were more than 9,000 registered game farms in South Africa, with a head of game almost eight times the game found in the Kruger National Park. This dramatic increase in the numbers of wild animals was due to one thing – Hunting! Trophy hunting is a sport that has been practised for several hundred years and the stiff license fees end up keeping more game alive than is culled.

Over the past 20-30 years game farming has turned into a science. Game counts are done regularly before the start of each hunting season, and quotas are set in order to ensure sustainability. The local hunting industry earns more than € 70 million per year and the trophy hunting industry contributes a further € 45 million in foreign income. EcoEgo-Tourism only contributes € 20 million to the wildlife industry per annum. The wildlife industry also provides jobs to thousands and in the process support thousands more. A survey done about 5 years ago determined that if hunting should be banned in South Africa, 95%+ of game farmers will resort back to traditional farming like livestock, resulting in the loss of 95%+ of all game on privately owned land.

In 1976 Kenya banned hunting in total. Within 5 years they lost 50% of all their sellable game. Amongst individual species the percentage loss was much higher, especially with elephant and rhino. The fact is that when you allow hunting, you obtain the services of “game rangers” who actually pays for the privilege to do this work. Hunters absolutely detest poachers, and will shoot at them when encountered. By removing hunters from the bush, you also remove policing from such areas.

Trophy hunting provides much needed foreign income, not only to South Africa, but to Africa as a whole. Although the foreign trophy hunter only walks away with his trophy, the meat is utilised. Trophy animals are those past their prime who has already spread their genes. The breeding life of an impala ram is at best 2 years before being kicked out by a stronger younger upstart. A kudu bull has a little longer lifespan as a breeding male, but lasts only about 4 years. Amongst antelope this is about the norm, with probably the exception of Steenbok (Rhaphicerus campestris), which normally mate for life.

WOW, you know a lot about this, very interesting post, thank you.

Kintarō Hattori

I'm afraid she's an absolutely distasteful human being, killing it for a bet.

I'm not against hunting (though I'd never do it myself) but I do believe it should be an animal that is absolutely bountiful which elephants are not. While it seems it's not illegal to kill elephants in certain parts of Africa it should be.

jwshooter

Kintarō Hattori wrote: »

I'm afraid she's an absolutely distasteful human being, killing it for a bet.

I'm not against hunting (though I'd never do it myself) but I do believe it should be an animal that is absolutely bountiful which elephants are not. While it seems it's not illegal to kill elephants in certain parts of Africa it should be.

if you google hunting in SA, you will see than the culling of game like elephants dangerous game and plans game.
is so important to the hole well being of the place ,money raised is put back into the economy .it pays to stop poaching the biggest killer of animals in SA .elephant numbers are on the rise in areas where hunting is run in this manor.
i am not condoning what this lady done ,but i do think the press for want of a story blew it up.
big game hunting in SA is a multi million dollar industry the parts of the country depend on it .
would i shoot a elephant on a cull hunt ?

meathstevie

JW, to answer your rhetorical question : if I could find the means to participate in a cull hunt with the right kit ( 500 Nitro Express or similar )sure I would. My ultimate dream is buffalo though.

jwshooter

hunting in SA holds no interest to me . a alpine hunt in NZ for thar and chamois now thats a hunt. il have the mortgage paid in a few years and i do it then.

but then again its hard to beat the little sika hind in the hills of wicklow .

i have not got bored of them yet and dough i ever will

gentleman jim

anyone see todays mirrior papper? a kangeruo in australia shot in the head with a bow and arrow and left to die!:mad: poor fella was near dead in a feild until someone found him

elgriff

gentleman jim wrote: »

anyone see todays mirrior papper? a kangeruo in australia shot in the head with a bow and arrow and left to die!:mad: poor fella was near dead in a feild until someone found him

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/asia-pacific/8043880.stm

Valmont

"Off in the short distance, we could hear the wounded bull moaning. The villagers kept scaring the other elephants. They would run away from the wounded one but would run back to him. It was a constant running back and forth. I was ready to go after the one I shot but Dudley said that it was too dangerous. He was too close, the others were agitated and it was getting dark. We decided to leave until the next morning."

I have a limit and killing an elephant, an elephant for christs sake, is just way too much. With a bow none the less, jesus, what is the world coming too.

Double Barrel

Valmont,

In very simple terms, the people running back and forth .... ARE STARVING .... the shot elephant is their salvation.

meathstevie

Would that professional guide/hunter know of the existance of nightvision technology ? A 4x4 with a spotlight maybe ?

Valmont

Double Barrel wrote: »

Valmont,

In very simple terms, the people running back and forth .... ARE STARVING .... the shot elephant is their salvation.

I'm sorry, I don't understand what you mean?

jwshooter

Valmont wrote: »

I'm sorry, I don't understand what you mean?

they get to eat the elephant, money from the hunt goes back into the local economy.

trackers ,guides ,staff in the hotel etc.

if there was no commercial hunting in the area poaching would have these elephants kill long ago.

Sparks

Trolling deleted.

dresden8

"The people are starving" arguement is irrelevant. A large bullet would have fed them as well.

This silly b1tch used a bow, a weapon practically guaranteed to inflict maximum suffering on the animal, which wandered off and was left to die overnight, is the point here.

Yes, in certain areas Africa is over-populated with elephants.

Yes, they compete with humans for ever decreasing resources.

Yes, in such a conflict it is proper that the elephant numbers will have to be curtailed.

Yes, it is right that the locals should profit from the industry that has grown up.

No, it is wrong that the elephant had to suffer so this silly tart could get her photograph on the internet.

Double Barrel

"I'm sorry, I don't understand what you mean?"

Valmont

If after being shot the animal was left alone he would have expired peacefully and quickly from haemorrhagic shock and subsequent loss of consciousness.

Instead, the opposite happened, the villagers in their quest to obtain food started a panic (a churning, a small stampede) trying to move the herd from what they know as a source of food, the elephant. Their actions initiated the release of adrenaline in the shot elephant causing him to panic and dash around every which way until he ran out of adrenaline and expired. They did not rush in after the elephant died because of the danger of being trampled.