Elephant taken down with a bow and arrow.. ... .. by a lady

.50 (MOA)

on sky news.

http://news.sky.com/skynews/Home/World-News/Elephant-Shot-With-Bow-And-Arrow-American-Huntress-Teressa-Groenewald-Hagerman-Killed-It-For-A-Bet/Article/200905115277040?lpos=World_News_First_Home_Page_Feature_Teaser_Region_0&lid=ARTICLE_15277040_Elephant_Shot_With_Bow_And_Arrow%3A_American_Huntress_Teressa_Groenewald-Hagerman_Killed_It_For_A_Bet


read in a book one time about africans hunting elephants, but instead of using a bow the normal way they but the bow across their feet and drew the bow with both hands while lying down. this seems to have been done with a regular kind of bow

Sparks

"...left it to die overnight".
I get that the meat's eaten by the local villagers, I get that the money raised keeps them alive and the rest of the herd healthy, and I know what'd happen without the safari business there, and I'm a fan of hunting (even if I don't hunt myself) and I like the taste of game - but that bit still just sticks in my craw.

It wasn't me!

Sparks wrote: »

"...left it to die overnight".
I get that the meat's eaten by the local villagers, I get that the money raised keeps them alive and the rest of the herd healthy, and I know what'd happen without the safari business there, and I'm a fan of hunting (even if I don't hunt myself) and I like the taste of game - but that bit still just sticks in my craw.

Agreed. Quick kill or no kill. This is why I dislike bow-hunting.

Vegeta

Sparks wrote: »

"...left it to die overnight".
I get that the meat's eaten by the local villagers, I get that the money raised keeps them alive and the rest of the herd healthy, and I know what'd happen without the safari business there, and I'm a fan of hunting (even if I don't hunt myself) and I like the taste of game - but that bit still just sticks in my craw.

I know its such a crock, she had achieved her goal (not one I'd congratulate her on) but why couldn't someone have shot it after it was down and put it out of its misery.

Trojan911

Should have been a follow up shot to be humane, to be honest.

CJhaughey

I think Lady might be stretching the acceptable use of the word.
Humane kill should be foremost in any hunters mind, If she couldn't kill it outright she should have followed up with a firearm.
Stunt hunters are not the best example for the hunting community.

Grizzly 45

Ummm,few things wrong or smelly with this story;
Sky news for a start;NOT the best for accruate or unemotive reporting on hunting or firearms for a start.[EG emotive word "slaughterd" why not just killed?]
Second "leaving it to die overnight"....As we only have that report [sofar] to go on.I'd say suspect...BUT is a SOP with bow hunting as well.You dont immediately follow the animal,as the arrow kill by massive blood loss not by kinetic[??] impact energy of a bullet.So an elephant may take longer to bleed out??
Other point why not a follow up shot to finish it out??Simple answer it is in Zimbabwae..Once the 2nd richest country in Africa,now a 4th world corrupt Communist dictatorship Sh""TE hole!!! There proably isnt a "white hunter"[guide or pro hunter] left there anymore who would have the appropriate hardware[IE a big calibre elephant rifle or handgun.Zim has very strict gun laws y'know:rolleyes:] to finish off the kill humanely. Which just goes to show how desperate that place is to get any money in there to allow this sort of stunt.20 years ago it would even have been unheard of there.Only other good thing is at least 500 poor folk will have had a decent meat dinner in months in that Workers paradise.:(

.50MOA
You are right .the trad African way of hunting elephants with bow and arrow is alot worse!
As the bows there are very strong .The hunters do put it across their feet,but they hide in a pit in an area where the elephants feed.As soon as an elephant walks over their pit hide they fire the arrow upwards into the elephants stomach /intestine area.They then track the injured critter for up to a week somtimes before it dies from the injury or blood loss. Sport hunting definately not.Getting a load of meat anyway possible..yes.

riflehunter77

I cant believe any decent PH (Professional Hunter) that would of been with her left the elephant over night. It usually is a round or two from .600 Nitro Express or something similar. Only reason would be if it was to dangerous to track it at night, but it does not say that in the report. But thats no excuse either.

Genghiz Cohen

Grizzly 45 wrote: »

Other point why not a follow up shot to finish it out??Simple answer it is in Zimbabwae..Once the 2nd richest country in Africa,now a 4th world corrupt Communist dictatorship Sh""TE hole!!! There proably isnt a "white hunter"[guide or pro hunter] left there anymore who would have the appropriate hardware[IE a big calibre elephant rifle or handgun.Zim has very strict gun laws y'know:rolleyes:] to finish off the kill humanely.

If you can't kill humanly, don't.

Grizzly 45 wrote: »

.50MOA
You are right .the trad African way of hunting elephants with bow and arrow is alot worse!
As the bows there are very strong .The hunters do put it across their feet,but they hide in a pit in an area where the elephants feed.As soon as an elephant walks over their pit hide they fire the arrow upwards into the elephants stomach /intestine area.They then track the injured critter for up to a week somtimes before it dies from the injury or blood loss. Sport hunting definately not.Getting a load of meat anyway possible..yes.

Hunting for food, with no access to firearms is one thing. Killing for a bet is quite another.

techdiver

Solution:

http://www.duncanoldham.com/blog/2009/05/07/teressa-groenewald-hagerman-should-be-shot/

Double Barrel

The Lady Bowhunts for African Elephant

There is always more to the story than the newsprint version.
Before this gets out of control and locked, ... a google turned up the following in 8 parts:

http://www.bowhunting.net/artman/publish/Articles/The_Lady_Bowhunt_for_African_Elephant_printer.shtml

http://www.bowhunting.net/artman/publish/Articles/The_Lady_Bowhunts_for_African_Elephant_-_Pt_2_printer.shtml

http://www.bowhunting.net/artman/publish/Articles/The_Lady_Bowhunts_for_African_Elephant_-_Pt_3_printer.shtml

http://www.bowhunting.net/artman/publish/Articles/The_Lady_Bowhunts_for_African_Elephant_-_Pt_4_printer.shtml

http://www.bowhunting.net/artman/publish/Articles/The_Lady_Bowhunts_for_African_Elephant_-_Pt_5_printer.shtml

http://www.bowhunting.net/artman/publish/Articles/The_Lady_Bowhunts_for_African_Elephant_-_Pt_6_printer.shtml

http://www.bowhunting.net/artman/publish/Articles/The_Lady_Bowhunts_for_African_Elephant_-_Pt_7_printer.shtml

http://www.bowhunting.net/artman/publish/Articles/The_Lady_Bowhunts_For_Elephant_-_Pt_8_printer.shtml

Sparks

It doesn't seem to contradict the bit I don't like so much though DB - she shot it and it was left to bleed out overnight in distress. I just don't get the point of that. Back when we didn't have firearms, sure, I get it - but the engineer in me (if nothing else) is screaming to use the right tool for the job...

Double Barrel

Agreed Sparks.
The PH should have put the animal down pronto. If he had a shot.

Grizzly 45

techdiver wrote: »

Solution:

http://www.duncanoldham.com/blog/2009/05/07/teressa-groenewald-hagerman-should-be-shot/

Yeah.yeah.Just another opinionated fool with a blog.:mad:

After reading the story, still a great hunt IMO and the stress behind that would have dropped some men ,not to mind a woman.[A hunting safri in Africa WILL sort out the men from the boys pretty quickly.] Now being corrected by it that there are still some guides left there.
I hate to say it;but the guide made the right decision.It was getting dark,the herd is going all distressed and thats not the time to be faffing around after wounded elephants wether they are shot by a 416 Rigby or a bow and arrow

kakashka

A proper Follow up shot would have stole her glory!!
GLORY is all this is about AFAICS,she's no hunter in my eyes.

Grizzly 45

Genghiz Cohen wrote: »

If you can't kill humanly, don't.



Hunting for food, with no access to firearms is one thing. Killing for a bet is quite another.

Sorry Genghiz...I dont see what you are getting at??

dresden8

Vegeta wrote: »

I know its such a crock, she had achieved her goal (not one I'd congratulate her on) but why couldn't someone have shot it after it was down and put it out of its misery.

Then she wouldn't have won her bet to kill it with a bow.

Evil cnut.

jwshooter

what is normal for a bow hunt on the big five or other dangerous game in SA the PH will shoot at the same time as the arrow will hits .

for some reason this did not happen or a miss from the PH or it did not get printed as the bragging rights would have lessened or the bet would have been lost.

the PH made a decision not to follow the animal in bad light this was the right one .
i would do the same my self, unless a 100% sure the animal is mortaly wounded you don't push a wounded animal in bad light or darkness .

i dont think the PH boxes at welther weight so he did not look like the lad that would sprint to finish any thing off other than his supper.

i am not a fan of bow hunting you mignt as well use a hornet on a elephant.

but in this world of ours money talks

dresden8

She's on about the same par as these sub-human scum

http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?threadid=2055558704

clivej

I have always held the believe of "All to thier own" but I have reached my limit on this one.

As others have said killing for food is one thing but to hunt an animal without the proper weapon, yes I said weapon, is not an option.

Bows and arrows, spears, blowdarts etc. have there place but not from an educated person as she portrays herself to be.

bunny shooter

Don't agree with bow hunting tbh.

Seen a bit in American hunting videos and IMO it is inhumane.

But, there are those who reckon my 22lr is inhumane on rabbits too.

jwshooter

a few points

firstly we were not there ok

press will hype this stuff up.

PHs in SA have a strict code of practice,

bow hunting is big bunniess all over the world .

we jump on another band wagon, so cop on .

im not a fan of bow hunting but how many rabbits pigeons pheasants ,deer etc have we a all hit this year and not recovered .
does a elephant feel more pain than a rabbit ,well does it .

kakashka

A few more points
Are we allowed to shoot deer with a 22lr????!!!!
I dont care what she hunts with so long as it's appropriate for the hunt.
Yes i believe an elephant shot(or whatever the term may be)with an arrow feels more pain than a rabbit shot with a 22!!thats a rediculous argument.a rabbit stuck with a(small)tooth pick might be a closer analogy.
I hunt deer here,only deer and i have not lost a single one last season or for as long as i can remember so you may speek for yourself in that regard JW,but not me.
KKK

.50 (MOA)

I'd be for bow hunting given suitable power to kill similarly to a gun. using a bow on an elephant, i don't think could ever match a .600 nitro express or .416 rigby, when these exist i don't see the point when a clean kill is always the objective. I would hope to hunt large game when I have the time and money, but i'd definitely want to kill it properly, i've shot many rabbits (mostly) in my time, well 4 years, and anytime they haven't been killed quickly it leaves me feeling bad. with a larger animal i can't see it being any more the case. when people are asked how they want to die they often say they don't mind, as long as its quick, any animal should be afforded the same consideration you'd want for yourself.

The thing i've noticed when it comes to people who are anti hunting is they see an animal alive and are hapy with the situation, and when they see an carcasse hung up, gutted, skinned etc. they are o.k with this too (in most cases). its the step between living and ready to be cooked that they don't like. but this is the step between watching nature and eating dinner in other words hunting. the more humanely this is done the less people will dislike hunting. leaving an elephant to die overnight is definitely something that does hunters no good, however in this case the the animal needed to be left for the safety of everyone involved, mainly due to it getting dark, why was the shot taken in this case, in the late evening? was a clean kill expected? or was this the best kill possible from a bow in this situation?

When man has created more and more powerful tools over the years, why go back to something that was inadequate for elephants, even when it was the most sophisticated technology of the time.

use any suitably adequate tool that is available. in this case a bow is never going to be adequate

Sparks

jwshooter wrote: »

firstly we were not there ok

No, but (a) if we had been we'd have been louder in opposing it, and (b) her own account of it in a pro-hunting article agrees on the salient details with the neutral/anti-hunting stuff.
You don't always have to be there jw (sometimes, yes, but not always).

jwshooter

kakashka wrote: »

A few more points
Are we allowed to shoot deer with a 22lr????!!!!
I dont care what she hunts with so long as it's appropriate for the hunt.
Yes i believe an elephant shot(or whatever the term may be)with an arrow feels more pain than a rabbit shot with a 22!!thats a rediculous argument.a rabbit stuck with a(small)tooth pick might be a closer analogy.
I hunt deer here,only deer and i have not lost a single one last season or for as long as i can remember so you may speek for yourself in that regard JW,but not me.
KKK

you missed my point kkk, animals should be dispatched on the spot ,a bow is not up to the job granted it will kill eventually like a .22 that's my point .

and i lost one animal this year a yearling hind neck shot at 70 yards with a 270 using a 110gr v max ,the dog and spent two hours till dark looking for her the next day my friend looked for her .
from the strike i seen she was mortally hit she went down as i moved onto a calf she got up the down hill momentum carryed her out of sight and she was lost in the heather gully ,found by my friend but not recovered.

riflehunter77

Sparks wrote: »

It doesn't seem to contradict the bit I don't like so much though DB - she shot it and it was left to bleed out overnight in distress. I just don't get the point of that. Back when we didn't have firearms, sure, I get it - but the engineer in me (if nothing else) is screaming to use the right tool for the job...

I get were you are coming from sparks, but we dont know how long it lasted it could of been a hour it could of been many and we will probably never no. But when hunting big game weather it be elephant or cape buffalo some times the right tool does not always do the job. I have read dozens or so books on hunting african big game by Peter hathway capstick and many others and seen plenty of video and sometimes the safest thing to do is leave it over night. A quote that seems to pop up quite regular is "its the dead ones that will kill you".

I still believe the ph should of finished it off quicker, but none of us was there and sometimes its hard looking from the outside in.

dresden8

pajero2005 wrote: »

I'd have to say i'm with you on this one. We cant take what press say as gospel. PH's have used this method (the bow) for centuries to great effect. It would be wrong to form an opinion on it based on one bad example.

Surgeons have used the knife for centuries to great effect.

I doubt any one of us in this day and age would want them to use the knife without anaesthetic. If you do, sign here and we'll present it to your heart surgeon on your double by-pass.

Any way you "cut" it this is barbaric macho crap that makes all hunters look like macho psycho killers.

"Because we can"

This is sh1t.

Sparks

pajero2005 wrote: »

PH's (by which I refer to people living in small nomadic/hunter gatherer communities) only have access to a limited amount of hand made hunting tools and for them hunting is not a sport or hobby, its a way to feed you're family and ensure survival!!

Yes, but this is one of their porters:

Not trying to judge, but from the rifle he's holding, I'd say they had access to better tools than a bow...

kakashka

jwshooter wrote: »

you missed my point kkk, animals should be dispatched on the spot ,a bow is not up to the job granted it will kill eventually like a .22 that's my point .

and i lost one animal this year a yearling hind neck shot at 70 yards with a 270 using a 110gr v max ,the dog and spent two hours till dark looking for her the next day my friend looked for her .
from the strike i seen she was mortally hit she went down as i moved onto a calf she got up the down hill momentum carryed her out of sight and she was lost in the heather gully ,found by my friend but not recovered.

And you missed mine,who among us is going to shoot an elephant with a 22.
Were not talking about tribes men but a person from Kansas.

pajero2005

Sparks wrote: »

Yes, but this is one of their porters:

Not trying to judge, but from the rifle he's holding, I'd say they had access to better tools than a bow...

My bad Sparks, tbh I based my opinion on reading some posts and not looking at the original link put up:o. I can understand tribal communities using these methods as a means of sourcing food but not Mr. Package holiday shown in the pic.

Must learn to get to know the facts before sticking my oar in next time;)