Elephant taken down with a bow and arrow.. ... .. by a lady

.50 (MOA)

on sky news.

http://news.sky.com/skynews/Home/World-News/Elephant-Shot-With-Bow-And-Arrow-American-Huntress-Teressa-Groenewald-Hagerman-Killed-It-For-A-Bet/Article/200905115277040?lpos=World_News_First_Home_Page_Feature_Teaser_Region_0&lid=ARTICLE_15277040_Elephant_Shot_With_Bow_And_Arrow%3A_American_Huntress_Teressa_Groenewald-Hagerman_Killed_It_For_A_Bet


read in a book one time about africans hunting elephants, but instead of using a bow the normal way they but the bow across their feet and drew the bow with both hands while lying down. this seems to have been done with a regular kind of bow

Sparks

"...left it to die overnight".
I get that the meat's eaten by the local villagers, I get that the money raised keeps them alive and the rest of the herd healthy, and I know what'd happen without the safari business there, and I'm a fan of hunting (even if I don't hunt myself) and I like the taste of game - but that bit still just sticks in my craw.

It wasn't me!

Sparks wrote: »

"...left it to die overnight".
I get that the meat's eaten by the local villagers, I get that the money raised keeps them alive and the rest of the herd healthy, and I know what'd happen without the safari business there, and I'm a fan of hunting (even if I don't hunt myself) and I like the taste of game - but that bit still just sticks in my craw.

Agreed. Quick kill or no kill. This is why I dislike bow-hunting.

Vegeta

Sparks wrote: »

"...left it to die overnight".
I get that the meat's eaten by the local villagers, I get that the money raised keeps them alive and the rest of the herd healthy, and I know what'd happen without the safari business there, and I'm a fan of hunting (even if I don't hunt myself) and I like the taste of game - but that bit still just sticks in my craw.

I know its such a crock, she had achieved her goal (not one I'd congratulate her on) but why couldn't someone have shot it after it was down and put it out of its misery.

Trojan911

Should have been a follow up shot to be humane, to be honest.

CJhaughey

I think Lady might be stretching the acceptable use of the word.
Humane kill should be foremost in any hunters mind, If she couldn't kill it outright she should have followed up with a firearm.
Stunt hunters are not the best example for the hunting community.

Grizzly 45

Ummm,few things wrong or smelly with this story;
Sky news for a start;NOT the best for accruate or unemotive reporting on hunting or firearms for a start.[EG emotive word "slaughterd" why not just killed?]
Second "leaving it to die overnight"....As we only have that report [sofar] to go on.I'd say suspect...BUT is a SOP with bow hunting as well.You dont immediately follow the animal,as the arrow kill by massive blood loss not by kinetic[??] impact energy of a bullet.So an elephant may take longer to bleed out??
Other point why not a follow up shot to finish it out??Simple answer it is in Zimbabwae..Once the 2nd richest country in Africa,now a 4th world corrupt Communist dictatorship Sh""TE hole!!! There proably isnt a "white hunter"[guide or pro hunter] left there anymore who would have the appropriate hardware[IE a big calibre elephant rifle or handgun.Zim has very strict gun laws y'know:rolleyes:] to finish off the kill humanely. Which just goes to show how desperate that place is to get any money in there to allow this sort of stunt.20 years ago it would even have been unheard of there.Only other good thing is at least 500 poor folk will have had a decent meat dinner in months in that Workers paradise.:(

.50MOA
You are right .the trad African way of hunting elephants with bow and arrow is alot worse!
As the bows there are very strong .The hunters do put it across their feet,but they hide in a pit in an area where the elephants feed.As soon as an elephant walks over their pit hide they fire the arrow upwards into the elephants stomach /intestine area.They then track the injured critter for up to a week somtimes before it dies from the injury or blood loss. Sport hunting definately not.Getting a load of meat anyway possible..yes.

riflehunter77

I cant believe any decent PH (Professional Hunter) that would of been with her left the elephant over night. It usually is a round or two from .600 Nitro Express or something similar. Only reason would be if it was to dangerous to track it at night, but it does not say that in the report. But thats no excuse either.

Genghiz Cohen

Grizzly 45 wrote: »

Other point why not a follow up shot to finish it out??Simple answer it is in Zimbabwae..Once the 2nd richest country in Africa,now a 4th world corrupt Communist dictatorship Sh""TE hole!!! There proably isnt a "white hunter"[guide or pro hunter] left there anymore who would have the appropriate hardware[IE a big calibre elephant rifle or handgun.Zim has very strict gun laws y'know:rolleyes:] to finish off the kill humanely.

If you can't kill humanly, don't.

Grizzly 45 wrote: »

.50MOA
You are right .the trad African way of hunting elephants with bow and arrow is alot worse!
As the bows there are very strong .The hunters do put it across their feet,but they hide in a pit in an area where the elephants feed.As soon as an elephant walks over their pit hide they fire the arrow upwards into the elephants stomach /intestine area.They then track the injured critter for up to a week somtimes before it dies from the injury or blood loss. Sport hunting definately not.Getting a load of meat anyway possible..yes.

Hunting for food, with no access to firearms is one thing. Killing for a bet is quite another.

techdiver

Solution:

http://www.duncanoldham.com/blog/2009/05/07/teressa-groenewald-hagerman-should-be-shot/

Double Barrel

The Lady Bowhunts for African Elephant

There is always more to the story than the newsprint version.
Before this gets out of control and locked, ... a google turned up the following in 8 parts:

http://www.bowhunting.net/artman/publish/Articles/The_Lady_Bowhunt_for_African_Elephant_printer.shtml

http://www.bowhunting.net/artman/publish/Articles/The_Lady_Bowhunts_for_African_Elephant_-_Pt_2_printer.shtml

http://www.bowhunting.net/artman/publish/Articles/The_Lady_Bowhunts_for_African_Elephant_-_Pt_3_printer.shtml

http://www.bowhunting.net/artman/publish/Articles/The_Lady_Bowhunts_for_African_Elephant_-_Pt_4_printer.shtml

http://www.bowhunting.net/artman/publish/Articles/The_Lady_Bowhunts_for_African_Elephant_-_Pt_5_printer.shtml

http://www.bowhunting.net/artman/publish/Articles/The_Lady_Bowhunts_for_African_Elephant_-_Pt_6_printer.shtml

http://www.bowhunting.net/artman/publish/Articles/The_Lady_Bowhunts_for_African_Elephant_-_Pt_7_printer.shtml

http://www.bowhunting.net/artman/publish/Articles/The_Lady_Bowhunts_For_Elephant_-_Pt_8_printer.shtml

Sparks

It doesn't seem to contradict the bit I don't like so much though DB - she shot it and it was left to bleed out overnight in distress. I just don't get the point of that. Back when we didn't have firearms, sure, I get it - but the engineer in me (if nothing else) is screaming to use the right tool for the job...

Double Barrel

Agreed Sparks.
The PH should have put the animal down pronto. If he had a shot.

Grizzly 45

techdiver wrote: »

Solution:

http://www.duncanoldham.com/blog/2009/05/07/teressa-groenewald-hagerman-should-be-shot/

Yeah.yeah.Just another opinionated fool with a blog.:mad:

After reading the story, still a great hunt IMO and the stress behind that would have dropped some men ,not to mind a woman.[A hunting safri in Africa WILL sort out the men from the boys pretty quickly.] Now being corrected by it that there are still some guides left there.
I hate to say it;but the guide made the right decision.It was getting dark,the herd is going all distressed and thats not the time to be faffing around after wounded elephants wether they are shot by a 416 Rigby or a bow and arrow

kakashka

A proper Follow up shot would have stole her glory!!
GLORY is all this is about AFAICS,she's no hunter in my eyes.

Grizzly 45

Genghiz Cohen wrote: »

If you can't kill humanly, don't.



Hunting for food, with no access to firearms is one thing. Killing for a bet is quite another.

Sorry Genghiz...I dont see what you are getting at??

dresden8

Vegeta wrote: »

I know its such a crock, she had achieved her goal (not one I'd congratulate her on) but why couldn't someone have shot it after it was down and put it out of its misery.

Then she wouldn't have won her bet to kill it with a bow.

Evil cnut.

jwshooter

what is normal for a bow hunt on the big five or other dangerous game in SA the PH will shoot at the same time as the arrow will hits .

for some reason this did not happen or a miss from the PH or it did not get printed as the bragging rights would have lessened or the bet would have been lost.

the PH made a decision not to follow the animal in bad light this was the right one .
i would do the same my self, unless a 100% sure the animal is mortaly wounded you don't push a wounded animal in bad light or darkness .

i dont think the PH boxes at welther weight so he did not look like the lad that would sprint to finish any thing off other than his supper.

i am not a fan of bow hunting you mignt as well use a hornet on a elephant.

but in this world of ours money talks

dresden8

She's on about the same par as these sub-human scum

http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?threadid=2055558704

clivej

I have always held the believe of "All to thier own" but I have reached my limit on this one.

As others have said killing for food is one thing but to hunt an animal without the proper weapon, yes I said weapon, is not an option.

Bows and arrows, spears, blowdarts etc. have there place but not from an educated person as she portrays herself to be.

bunny shooter

Don't agree with bow hunting tbh.

Seen a bit in American hunting videos and IMO it is inhumane.

But, there are those who reckon my 22lr is inhumane on rabbits too.

jwshooter

a few points

firstly we were not there ok

press will hype this stuff up.

PHs in SA have a strict code of practice,

bow hunting is big bunniess all over the world .

we jump on another band wagon, so cop on .

im not a fan of bow hunting but how many rabbits pigeons pheasants ,deer etc have we a all hit this year and not recovered .
does a elephant feel more pain than a rabbit ,well does it .

kakashka

A few more points
Are we allowed to shoot deer with a 22lr????!!!!
I dont care what she hunts with so long as it's appropriate for the hunt.
Yes i believe an elephant shot(or whatever the term may be)with an arrow feels more pain than a rabbit shot with a 22!!thats a rediculous argument.a rabbit stuck with a(small)tooth pick might be a closer analogy.
I hunt deer here,only deer and i have not lost a single one last season or for as long as i can remember so you may speek for yourself in that regard JW,but not me.
KKK

.50 (MOA)

I'd be for bow hunting given suitable power to kill similarly to a gun. using a bow on an elephant, i don't think could ever match a .600 nitro express or .416 rigby, when these exist i don't see the point when a clean kill is always the objective. I would hope to hunt large game when I have the time and money, but i'd definitely want to kill it properly, i've shot many rabbits (mostly) in my time, well 4 years, and anytime they haven't been killed quickly it leaves me feeling bad. with a larger animal i can't see it being any more the case. when people are asked how they want to die they often say they don't mind, as long as its quick, any animal should be afforded the same consideration you'd want for yourself.

The thing i've noticed when it comes to people who are anti hunting is they see an animal alive and are hapy with the situation, and when they see an carcasse hung up, gutted, skinned etc. they are o.k with this too (in most cases). its the step between living and ready to be cooked that they don't like. but this is the step between watching nature and eating dinner in other words hunting. the more humanely this is done the less people will dislike hunting. leaving an elephant to die overnight is definitely something that does hunters no good, however in this case the the animal needed to be left for the safety of everyone involved, mainly due to it getting dark, why was the shot taken in this case, in the late evening? was a clean kill expected? or was this the best kill possible from a bow in this situation?

When man has created more and more powerful tools over the years, why go back to something that was inadequate for elephants, even when it was the most sophisticated technology of the time.

use any suitably adequate tool that is available. in this case a bow is never going to be adequate

Sparks

jwshooter wrote: »

firstly we were not there ok

No, but (a) if we had been we'd have been louder in opposing it, and (b) her own account of it in a pro-hunting article agrees on the salient details with the neutral/anti-hunting stuff.
You don't always have to be there jw (sometimes, yes, but not always).

jwshooter

kakashka wrote: »

A few more points
Are we allowed to shoot deer with a 22lr????!!!!
I dont care what she hunts with so long as it's appropriate for the hunt.
Yes i believe an elephant shot(or whatever the term may be)with an arrow feels more pain than a rabbit shot with a 22!!thats a rediculous argument.a rabbit stuck with a(small)tooth pick might be a closer analogy.
I hunt deer here,only deer and i have not lost a single one last season or for as long as i can remember so you may speek for yourself in that regard JW,but not me.
KKK

you missed my point kkk, animals should be dispatched on the spot ,a bow is not up to the job granted it will kill eventually like a .22 that's my point .

and i lost one animal this year a yearling hind neck shot at 70 yards with a 270 using a 110gr v max ,the dog and spent two hours till dark looking for her the next day my friend looked for her .
from the strike i seen she was mortally hit she went down as i moved onto a calf she got up the down hill momentum carryed her out of sight and she was lost in the heather gully ,found by my friend but not recovered.

riflehunter77

Sparks wrote: »

It doesn't seem to contradict the bit I don't like so much though DB - she shot it and it was left to bleed out overnight in distress. I just don't get the point of that. Back when we didn't have firearms, sure, I get it - but the engineer in me (if nothing else) is screaming to use the right tool for the job...

I get were you are coming from sparks, but we dont know how long it lasted it could of been a hour it could of been many and we will probably never no. But when hunting big game weather it be elephant or cape buffalo some times the right tool does not always do the job. I have read dozens or so books on hunting african big game by Peter hathway capstick and many others and seen plenty of video and sometimes the safest thing to do is leave it over night. A quote that seems to pop up quite regular is "its the dead ones that will kill you".

I still believe the ph should of finished it off quicker, but none of us was there and sometimes its hard looking from the outside in.

dresden8

pajero2005 wrote: »

I'd have to say i'm with you on this one. We cant take what press say as gospel. PH's have used this method (the bow) for centuries to great effect. It would be wrong to form an opinion on it based on one bad example.

Surgeons have used the knife for centuries to great effect.

I doubt any one of us in this day and age would want them to use the knife without anaesthetic. If you do, sign here and we'll present it to your heart surgeon on your double by-pass.

Any way you "cut" it this is barbaric macho crap that makes all hunters look like macho psycho killers.

"Because we can"

This is sh1t.

Sparks

pajero2005 wrote: »

PH's (by which I refer to people living in small nomadic/hunter gatherer communities) only have access to a limited amount of hand made hunting tools and for them hunting is not a sport or hobby, its a way to feed you're family and ensure survival!!

Yes, but this is one of their porters:

Not trying to judge, but from the rifle he's holding, I'd say they had access to better tools than a bow...

kakashka

jwshooter wrote: »

you missed my point kkk, animals should be dispatched on the spot ,a bow is not up to the job granted it will kill eventually like a .22 that's my point .

and i lost one animal this year a yearling hind neck shot at 70 yards with a 270 using a 110gr v max ,the dog and spent two hours till dark looking for her the next day my friend looked for her .
from the strike i seen she was mortally hit she went down as i moved onto a calf she got up the down hill momentum carryed her out of sight and she was lost in the heather gully ,found by my friend but not recovered.

And you missed mine,who among us is going to shoot an elephant with a 22.
Were not talking about tribes men but a person from Kansas.

pajero2005

Sparks wrote: »

Yes, but this is one of their porters:

Not trying to judge, but from the rifle he's holding, I'd say they had access to better tools than a bow...

My bad Sparks, tbh I based my opinion on reading some posts and not looking at the original link put up:o. I can understand tribal communities using these methods as a means of sourcing food but not Mr. Package holiday shown in the pic.

Must learn to get to know the facts before sticking my oar in next time;)

Double Barrel

"The villagers kept scaring the other elephants. They would run away from the wounded one but would run back to him. It was a constant running back and forth. I was ready to go after the one I shot but Dudley said that it was too dangerous. He was too close, the others were agitated and it was getting dark. We decided to leave until the next morning."

Most here have not hunted elephants or any of the big five, and are not familiar with their behaviour before and after an animal is shot. Hunting elephants is dangerous. A shot pachyderm is extremely dangerous. Tracking a wounded animal anytime is dangerous but especially at dusk in heavy cover. It is not wise.
Better left for clear heads and good light.

On dangerous game hunts, the presence of backup rifles exists to prevent possible tragedy to the people and suffering of the game should the need arise. Most PH prefer their clients to do all the shooting themselves and most if not all African countries have a rule that no professional hunter shall fire together with the client, unless in self-defence or in the dispatch of a dangerous wounded animal. The PH and the client discuss this in detail before hand and the procedure is clear.

The PH determined that the arrow had found its mark as at 10 yards he was in a position to get a good view of the entry wound and determine his course of action. I would assume he and the client had discussed the possibility for a follow up shot and he was not to take a shot if in his judgement the arrow flew true and inflicted a mortal strike .

I have only used a bow on whitetail and blacktail deer in North America. I appreciate the skill that is involved getting into bow range on a stalk, much closer than many would ever hope to get with a rifle.

An arrow through the heart or both lungs kills really fast, just as quick as with a rifle, and in some cases quicker. Arrows kill by inflicting massive bleeding resulting in haemorrhagic shock and subsequent loss of consciousness and death. A properly placed arrow is not as traumatic on the game at the shot, they will not hear the loud report of a rifle nor feel the dramatic hit/shock of a bullet. Sometimes they may jump and trot off a little ways, browse or just stand still and suddenly drop dead.
I would be very surprised if the animal in question survived more than a few minutes and was in no pain right up to the end, if he had being left alone.
His adrenaline kicked in when the - "The villagers kept scaring the other elephants. They would run away from the wounded one but would run back to him." - causing him to travel 500 yards before expiring.

I am not advocating shooting dangerous game with small calibre rifles or light bows but Walter Bell killed over 2000 elephants in his lifetime mostly - over a thousand- with a .275 Rigby (7x57mm) , and several hundred with each of the following - a 6.5x54mm a 303, and a .318 WR.
Shot placement. He studied the anatomy of the animals he was hunting and practised continuously mostly dry firing at objects as he traversed the continent on foot . He once killed 23 Cape buffalo with 23 shots using a .22 Savage High Power. Not something I would recommend.

meathstevie

I'd rate a bow still a bit nicer than ZANU/PF's preferred method of big gime hunting : the cheapest bang for a few ZIM bucks; landmines.

jwshooter

BD ,what a life .
Karamojo bell shot most of 2,000+ elephants over half with a .275 rigby i think rigby have this rifle now.
im sure i have a old video from rigby some where and a guy using a 275 it on game in england

his first shot was always a brain shot ,he even used a ladder at times in long grass to get his height held by the trackers.

would you spend 10,000 dollars to shoot a elephant .i wounder how much a shoulder mount would cost .

where would you hang it.

would the .270 be up to the job.

how much of a tip will i give the trackers and the PH .

what would it taste like ,

would davey's knife be up to the job of gutting.

would my drag rope go around its head ,

would i get it into my land rover.

is my freezer big enough.


before you embark on your elephant there are a few questions you should ask your self

Hagar

Why would anyone kill an elephant?
Needless slaughter.
I'm not against hunting in general but killing elephants for sport?

Sparks

Hagar wrote: »

I'm not against hunting in general but killing elephants for sport?

I don't think much of it myself, but it does have positive side effects - meat for the locals, money to pay for protecting the herds against poachers and the like. It would be nicer if that was paid for by governments, but the average government in that region is somewhat ineffectual and burdened with problems like not letting all the humans starve to death, so they don't pay much heed to elephants.

Like I said, it's unpleasant, but this does represent a renewable resource being harvested in a sustainable way.

Half-cocked

This sort of thing gives hunting a bad name. To the non-hunting public, we all get tarred with the same brush. Humane dispatch should always be a hunters goal. Letting an animal bleed to death from it's wounds over night is unethical to say the least.

Half-cocked

Hagar wrote: »

Why would anyone kill an elephant?
Needless slaughter.
I'm not against hunting in general but killing elephants for sport?

I've been to East Africa on several occasions and the elephant herds there are so used to humans that you can approach them quite close. There's no real fieldcraft involved in 'stalking' a wild elephant in these areas. Sadly, these animals don't recognize national borders. In Kenya they are protected and will continue peacefully grazing while busloads of tourists drive up to them for a few pics. Then they wander over the border into Tanzania and get shot by a fat Yank who pays €20K+ for the 'hunt'. I'm not saying it's not dangerous to hunt elephants, but in many cases, the 'hunter' is shooting an animal that is habituated to humans. It's the equivalent of an Irish hunter going stalking in a deer farm.

Grizzly 45

For anything decent in an elephant trophy which is 60lbs plus of Ivory tusk per side.You are looking at USD $37,500 plus trophy fee,plus ancillary expenses of guides,porters,travel to and from,food,tips etc, Say about 45to 48K.That is a Hell of a load of money in a country that has a currency of 1USD to 1 Trillion Zimbabwae Dollars.Even after local officaldom has had it's take as well.Thats still a lotta money to put down for a hunt,or a bet.Wish I had that sort of money.:rolleyes:

jwshooter

there is a man in the uk peter carr that is a sporting agent and can organise a elephant cull form as little as 6,000 GB pounds

kakashka

jwshooter wrote: »

there is a man in the uk peter carr that is a sporting agent and can organise a elephant cull form as little as 6,000 GB pounds

could probably organised two legged cull's for less than that!!
(Walter Bell,dont think he was native??!)

jwshooter

W D M bell. by james passmore

bell shot 1,011 elephants with 6, different 275 rigbys for 1.5 shots per animal.

he even shot 300 with a 6.5x54 mannlicher scheonauer .

he shot 9 one day making him 877 pounds

in one expedition he made 23,000 pounds back in the turn of the century this was big bucks.
his nick name karamojo came the area in uganda where shot most of his elephants .
he was born in scotland 1880 and died in 1951 in scotland .

how thats what i call a life.

meathstevie

jwshooter wrote: »

there is a man in the uk peter carr that is a sporting agent and can organise a elephant cull form as little as 6,000 GB pounds

And that's exactly how a lot of private game reserves and national parks in the more organised African countries manage their game herds. In the end nobody has anything to gain with for example a herd of elephant going on the rampage in small agricultural villages around national parks when food in the park is running scarce through overpopulation. It's no different than the NPWS over here managing the deer in the Wicklow or Kerry national parks. I don't know the current situation but in South Africa for example you could buy canned elephant meat straight from the national parks cull.

Of course it becomes more problematic when the likes of Zimbabwe have to get in every penny they can get or have to slaughter game on an industrial scale to feed the government scum/muscle.

To make a long story short : Africa, and especially sub-Sahara, is a continent cursed with an incredible amount of natural resources and generaly weak government which leaves it open to pillage and plunder by the not so scrupulous locals and outsiders. Oil, diamond, coltan, copper, uranium, ivory, rhinoceros horn, leopard skins, ... . It's all there for the taking if you have the muscle or the bakshees to get your hands on it.

Grizzly 45

Cheap isnt necessarily better on safaris,neither somtimes is expensive either.The only good guide on somthing like this is reputation of the company.Sure it might be 6k all in.But what are you getting for it??
You might get a hunt,but your other important things like accomadation or grub might leave much to be desired.Thats just as important when you are out on somthing as energy sapping as a hunt out there.
Be asking a lot of questions of the company about things like that,and on the net of people who used that company.
It's a Hell of a lot of money for anyone of us to put down for pretty much a trip of a lifetime to have it fukd up over trival details.

Double Barrel

JW

Probably a century or two late but we would muddle through. Not to sure about coming home to the family grouse moor in the Highlands but maybe Walter included us in his testament. There is always hope.

Double Barrel

To expand a little on what Sparks and Stevie wrote.

During the 1980’s South African farmers began to realise the commercial value of game, and started to charge for hunting and charge considerable fees for trophy animals. As it became more lucrative farmers switched from livestock farming to game farming full time. By 1995 there were more than 9,000 registered game farms in South Africa, with a head of game almost eight times the game found in the Kruger National Park. This dramatic increase in the numbers of wild animals was due to one thing – Hunting! Trophy hunting is a sport that has been practised for several hundred years and the stiff license fees end up keeping more game alive than is culled.

Over the past 20-30 years game farming has turned into a science. Game counts are done regularly before the start of each hunting season, and quotas are set in order to ensure sustainability. The local hunting industry earns more than € 70 million per year and the trophy hunting industry contributes a further € 45 million in foreign income. EcoEgo-Tourism only contributes € 20 million to the wildlife industry per annum. The wildlife industry also provides jobs to thousands and in the process support thousands more. A survey done about 5 years ago determined that if hunting should be banned in South Africa, 95%+ of game farmers will resort back to traditional farming like livestock, resulting in the loss of 95%+ of all game on privately owned land.

In 1976 Kenya banned hunting in total. Within 5 years they lost 50% of all their sellable game. Amongst individual species the percentage loss was much higher, especially with elephant and rhino. The fact is that when you allow hunting, you obtain the services of “game rangers” who actually pays for the privilege to do this work. Hunters absolutely detest poachers, and will shoot at them when encountered. By removing hunters from the bush, you also remove policing from such areas.

Trophy hunting provides much needed foreign income, not only to South Africa, but to Africa as a whole. Although the foreign trophy hunter only walks away with his trophy, the meat is utilised. Trophy animals are those past their prime who has already spread their genes. The breeding life of an impala ram is at best 2 years before being kicked out by a stronger younger upstart. A kudu bull has a little longer lifespan as a breeding male, but lasts only about 4 years. Amongst antelope this is about the norm, with probably the exception of Steenbok (Rhaphicerus campestris), which normally mate for life.

Deerspotter

Double Barrel wrote: »

To expand a little on what Sparks and Stevie wrote.

During the 1980’s South African farmers began to realise the commercial value of game, and started to charge for hunting and charge considerable fees for trophy animals. As it became more lucrative farmers switched from livestock farming to game farming full time. By 1995 there were more than 9,000 registered game farms in South Africa, with a head of game almost eight times the game found in the Kruger National Park. This dramatic increase in the numbers of wild animals was due to one thing – Hunting! Trophy hunting is a sport that has been practised for several hundred years and the stiff license fees end up keeping more game alive than is culled.

Over the past 20-30 years game farming has turned into a science. Game counts are done regularly before the start of each hunting season, and quotas are set in order to ensure sustainability. The local hunting industry earns more than € 70 million per year and the trophy hunting industry contributes a further € 45 million in foreign income. EcoEgo-Tourism only contributes € 20 million to the wildlife industry per annum. The wildlife industry also provides jobs to thousands and in the process support thousands more. A survey done about 5 years ago determined that if hunting should be banned in South Africa, 95%+ of game farmers will resort back to traditional farming like livestock, resulting in the loss of 95%+ of all game on privately owned land.

In 1976 Kenya banned hunting in total. Within 5 years they lost 50% of all their sellable game. Amongst individual species the percentage loss was much higher, especially with elephant and rhino. The fact is that when you allow hunting, you obtain the services of “game rangers” who actually pays for the privilege to do this work. Hunters absolutely detest poachers, and will shoot at them when encountered. By removing hunters from the bush, you also remove policing from such areas.

Trophy hunting provides much needed foreign income, not only to South Africa, but to Africa as a whole. Although the foreign trophy hunter only walks away with his trophy, the meat is utilised. Trophy animals are those past their prime who has already spread their genes. The breeding life of an impala ram is at best 2 years before being kicked out by a stronger younger upstart. A kudu bull has a little longer lifespan as a breeding male, but lasts only about 4 years. Amongst antelope this is about the norm, with probably the exception of Steenbok (Rhaphicerus campestris), which normally mate for life.

WOW, you know a lot about this, very interesting post, thank you.

Kintarō Hattori

I'm afraid she's an absolutely distasteful human being, killing it for a bet.

I'm not against hunting (though I'd never do it myself) but I do believe it should be an animal that is absolutely bountiful which elephants are not. While it seems it's not illegal to kill elephants in certain parts of Africa it should be.

jwshooter

Kintarō Hattori wrote: »

I'm afraid she's an absolutely distasteful human being, killing it for a bet.

I'm not against hunting (though I'd never do it myself) but I do believe it should be an animal that is absolutely bountiful which elephants are not. While it seems it's not illegal to kill elephants in certain parts of Africa it should be.

if you google hunting in SA, you will see than the culling of game like elephants dangerous game and plans game.
is so important to the hole well being of the place ,money raised is put back into the economy .it pays to stop poaching the biggest killer of animals in SA .elephant numbers are on the rise in areas where hunting is run in this manor.
i am not condoning what this lady done ,but i do think the press for want of a story blew it up.
big game hunting in SA is a multi million dollar industry the parts of the country depend on it .
would i shoot a elephant on a cull hunt ?

meathstevie

JW, to answer your rhetorical question : if I could find the means to participate in a cull hunt with the right kit ( 500 Nitro Express or similar )sure I would. My ultimate dream is buffalo though.

jwshooter

hunting in SA holds no interest to me . a alpine hunt in NZ for thar and chamois now thats a hunt. il have the mortgage paid in a few years and i do it then.

but then again its hard to beat the little sika hind in the hills of wicklow .

i have not got bored of them yet and dough i ever will